Author Topic: Tank Nation UNITE!!!  (Read 177077 times)

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Offline freer

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #450 on: February 10, 2015, 02:09:09 PM »
For example, I wish I knew what it was about John Doherty that made them think he was worth a second round pick, because looking at the stats, I don't get it. Obviously there's more to it than that... but still, it would be interesting to know.

Yeah that was the worst. I remember that he was a really, really big kid and Trapp (I think it was him at the time) wouldn't shut up about how raw he was as a player and how much potential he had. It really seemed like they just found a big guy who could skate and assumed everything else would come after.

I remember when Roman Kukumberg was drafted too they suggested that he might be NHL ready because he was in his early 20s when he was picked.

Who?

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #451 on: February 10, 2015, 02:09:41 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #452 on: February 10, 2015, 02:11:33 PM »
I always view it as this:  I'd rather they either make the playoffs or get as high a draft pick as possible.  Me?  I cannot control either outcome, so when the game starts, I still enjoy them playing well and making good plays and get excited when they score.

That's where I'm at, too. I either want them to be a clear playoff team or a clear basement team. Being in between doesn't really do much to help them.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #453 on: February 10, 2015, 02:53:27 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #454 on: February 10, 2015, 03:01:57 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.

Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #455 on: February 10, 2015, 03:10:52 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.

Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.

I've since clarified that I meant asset mismanagement - you know I'm not someone who is trying to generalize or gloss over facts...

The leafs mishandled their assets over that time period - I'm not way off base on that assertion...

And again, I highlighted one pick as an example, not as a generalization.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #456 on: February 10, 2015, 03:15:02 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.

Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.

I've since clarified that I meant asset mismanagement - you know I'm not someone who is trying to generalize or gloss over facts...

The leafs mishandled their assets over that time period - I'm not way off base on that assertion...

And again, I highlighted one pick as an example, not as a generalization.

I know, and that's fair enough.  I just think it completely changes what the criticism is.  But I trust that's what you meant to get across, and it's hard to argue.

Offline Chris

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #457 on: February 10, 2015, 03:25:57 PM »
If you want to see a real "swing and a miss" from 2003, the Rangers first round pick, Hugh Jessimen...at #12 played a grand total of 2 NHL games.

It's always fun to look back at old drafts. For overall ineptness, it would be tough to top the Leafs 1999 class...9 selections (led by Luca Cereda) who played a total of 3 NHL games. 1996 would have rivaled that (with #1 pick Marek Posmyk) except for the hidden gem at @204 (Kaberle).

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #458 on: February 10, 2015, 03:29:31 PM »
If you want to see a real "swing and a miss" from 2003, the Rangers first round pick, Hugh Jessimen...at #12 played a grand total of 2 NHL games.

It's always fun to look back at old drafts. For overall ineptness, it would be tough to top the Leafs 1999 class...9 selections (led by Luca Cereda) who played a total of 3 NHL games. 1996 would have rivaled that (with #1 pick Marek Posmyk) except for the hidden gem at @204 (Kaberle).

Always sucked what happened with Cereda, diagnosed with a congenital heart defect not long after he was drafted.

Offline Chris

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #459 on: February 10, 2015, 03:34:19 PM »
Yeah, I don't know if he would have been an impact player otherwise.

As for Kukemberg, at least he wasn't taken until the 4th round. Still, the Leafs could have had Ryan Callahan, who was taken 13 picks later.

Offline caveman

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #460 on: February 10, 2015, 03:41:01 PM »
I always view it as this:  I'd rather they either make the playoffs or get as high a draft pick as possible.  Me?  I cannot control either outcome, so when the game starts, I still enjoy them playing well and making good plays and get excited when they score.

That's where I'm at, too. I either want them to be a clear playoff team or a clear basement team. Being in between doesn't really do much to help them.

X3.... it's like groundhog day with this team....over and over...

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #461 on: February 10, 2015, 03:42:57 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.

Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.

I've since clarified that I meant asset mismanagement - you know I'm not someone who is trying to generalize or gloss over facts...

The leafs mishandled their assets over that time period - I'm not way off base on that assertion...

And again, I highlighted one pick as an example, not as a generalization.

I know, and that's fair enough.  I just think it completely changes what the criticism is.  But I trust that's what you meant to get across, and it's hard to argue.

also - I should point out that I wrote all this while I was on a conference call - so my attention was kind... of ... divided!

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #462 on: February 10, 2015, 03:44:59 PM »
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.

Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.

I've since clarified that I meant asset mismanagement - you know I'm not someone who is trying to generalize or gloss over facts...

The leafs mishandled their assets over that time period - I'm not way off base on that assertion...

And again, I highlighted one pick as an example, not as a generalization.

I know, and that's fair enough.  I just think it completely changes what the criticism is.  But I trust that's what you meant to get across, and it's hard to argue.

also - I should point out that I wrote all this while I was on a conference call - so my attention was kind... of ... divided!

Come on man, prioritize! Tmlfans first, then work.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #463 on: February 10, 2015, 03:49:38 PM »

Come on man, prioritize! Tmlfans first, then work.

I know... I know.. I Clarksoned the forum.

Offline Madferret

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Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« Reply #464 on: February 10, 2015, 04:53:45 PM »
I'm starting to wonder if the Leafs brass really have the stomach to go through a proper teardown / rebuild - that's a lot of $$$ and corporate sponsorship to gamble with. Aside from Dregger and those puppets doing their best to overvalue some very marginal players on a very bad hockey team has their been any kind of indication from management that they're finally going to blow it up?