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Messages - Chris

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Right, so basically if we'd made the trade with Buffalo or Edmonton and gotten their second rounder plus a prospect. Not really much difference. I'm sure some would complain but people complain about everything.

Just looking at one year - the oldest (2005) when Mihalik was picked at 30. Some players who were still available and picked later included James Neal (33, 463 games), Marc-Edouard Vlasic (35, 653 games), Paul Stastny (44, 586 games), Kris Letang (62, 472 games), Keith Yandle (105, 552 games).  And many others who played at least 200 games.

Obviously it's not easy to identify those talents or Tampa would have picked one of those players instead of Mihalik.

Also note that the players picked at #13, 14 and 16 didn't play a single NHL game.

Everyone knows the success rate of late first round picks is much lower than the top 5 or 10. And second rounders have an even lower hit rate. That's why you need to stockpile them at times like this. Having a bunch of picks increases the chances that one or more of them pan out. Or, they give you more flexibility to make other moves (such as trading up).

Part of the Leafs problem recently has been the lack of second round picks...perhaps if we'd kept more of them we'd have one or two better prospects in the system.

Can't hurt to add a little more dysfunction to this already dysfunctional group. After all, the goal is the highest draft pick possible. Bring on Jokinen!

Sure but let's say Franson ends up signing for something pretty reasonable like 4 years and 20 million. Would that be good? Is he worth that? Would we be really jazzed about having Franson on the blue line for the next four years?

Maybe I just never warmed to the guy but I never really saw Franson as a guy who could be a big part of a contending team.

I don't know, it can be tough to get a good read on a player when he's on a team like the Leafs. That said, he makes too many boneheaded giveaways in his own end for my liking, and is kind of slow. I think $5 million per is too expensive for what he brings to the team, especially if the Leafs are really going to tear things down.

That said, it will be very interesting to see how he does on a better team like Nashville. I think that will ultimately play a big role in what kind of contract he is able to get.

That video is hilarious, by the way!


But along those lines, did Franson ever really make a lot of sense? Is he a five million dollar a year defenseman? Is he worth more?

He's racked up decent point totals the last few years but he's also sort of been stapled to a power play that, for all it's ineffectiveness, has some pretty talented offensive players. He's got 20 goals in 230+ games with the Leafs. Maybe it's just me but I don't watch too many games and think "Man, Franson really is generating some good chances". I think he's a good offensive defenseman but I'll be really interested to see how his point totals develop with Nashville.

Well, some team was dumb enough to give Clarkson a $5 million deal. So Franson should get that easily!

So it looks like we may have gotten the second coming of Darcy Tucker in the deal?

Overall...considering Franson's possible injury and his growing tendency to give the puck away in front of his own goal...probably not a bad deal.


Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2014/15 Roster moves thread
« on: February 14, 2015, 05:03:12 PM »
I like Frattin too, but the real key is he's 27 years old. The team needs to find players with reasonable chances of improving. He's an AHL player who can fill in on the NHL team in case of injuries.

I'd rather have Ashton back. Only 23 with some upside. Realistically, also not probable to amount to anything. But there's some hope there.
Problem is, Ashton has never shown anything in his opportunities. Fratton showed more ability and potential within his first week.

I think you could make a reasonable argument for having traded Frattin instead of Ashton and just leaving Ashton with the Marlies to see if he ever develops, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over that one.

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2014/15 Roster moves thread
« on: February 14, 2015, 01:15:18 PM »
Softspot, I don't know. Frattin has obvious skills. When he first came up I saw him make some plays that most players can't or won't try. I also saw him knock people down without even trying. Can't remember who it was, but at one point an opposing player took a run at him and Frattin didn't see him until the last moment...opposing guy bounced off him. It was pretty impressive.

Don't know what his problem was, how much was injury, how much may have been lack of motivation, whatever. I think his window of opportunity has largely passed but perhaps he can stick with a team as a third or fourth liner...maybe even with the Leafs for a year or two if they do a total tear down.

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Tank Nation UNITE!!!
« on: February 13, 2015, 02:58:56 PM »

Kreider would be a pretty good piece, though. Only 23, big, fast, has skill and a bit of a mean streak. He'll never produce points like Kessel would, but I'd love to have him on the Leafs.

Caveat to the above, my impressions are mainly based on what I saw in the finals last year. Haven't really seen him play much this year.

Also I notice you don't deny my first sentence, which, in fact, is undeniable so that's good that you didn't even try.

It's also worth mentioning that "without the puck" doesn't exclusively refer to defensive play. Kessel is not a ton of use on the forecheck exactly whereas a guy like Getzlaf is.
When the Leafs don't have the puck and the Kessel line is on the ice, it's like they're playing a man and a half down. Both Kessel and Bozak are essentially useless once the puck goes up for grabs in a corner (and JVR hasn't been much better). I don't watch other teams closely enough to know how that compares to some of the other top lines/players, but I can't recall ever seeing another teams "top" line get hemmed in its own end shift after shift, game after game like ours does.

Kessel's laziness without the puck diminishes his value significantly.  He is as bad a forward w/o the puck as I have ever seen.  Say what you will about Ward and O'Neill but their criticisms of Kessel during his latest/greatest disappearing act have been spot on.

It turns out NewPhil was a mirage.  OldPhil is Phil, and always will be.

I agree 100% which is the main reason I favor trading him. But, I've been watching that whole line pretty carefully and they are all like that. Did you see that goal against the Rangers? The one where whatever Ranger player carried the puck all the way from the Ranger end to the Leafs sequence, Kessel, then Bozak, then JVR took turns waving their sticks at him as he skated past. No real effort to impede him by any of them.

That is a really bad combination. I think it's possible that putting Kessel with more physical/defensive minded players (especially at center) might work, but the Leafs don't really have those players. Could they get them quickly enough to make it worth keeping Kessel? I don't know.

I think you can keep kessel and have a rebuild - it seems plausible to me.

I agree, but if you can get a package like the one I heard rumours about, I think you have to take it.
What have you heard?

I think you could choose to keep Kessel and rebuild around him, but if you get one of those "can't refuse" offers, you take it and go from there.

Kessel is an incredible talent, no doubt...not only a great sniper but tremendous vision and passing ability. That combination is rare. But, he is as streaky as I've ever seen. Can the team afford to rebuild/plan around a player who essentially disappears for 15-20 game stretches at a time?

On the other hand, who knows how much of those stretches are as much a reflection of his linemates and the rest of the team around him? The last couple of games, JVR has been invisible and Bozak has been that way for half the season.

Tough situation, but I think the best course of action is to get rid of them all and start from scratch (Rielly, maybe Gardiner and Kadri).

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