Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews

[Highlander]

Scottdale/Phoenix is growing at a fantastic rate, the North is finished, as we do know that Winter is coming! The team will grow into the market, the amount of money in the area is probably the highest in the country and despite years of negative results, I can attest that Gila is pretty much full when I go to the games and the resto's and restaurants in the area are packed before the games. Doesn't hurt that the Cardinals play right next door.
I don't see the area letting go of the team as people in AZ seam to see the long term vision.

When we look at Vegas most people don't realize that the population is reaching close to 5 million and most of these folks are from the N.E. States and love hockey.  As there are close to a million visitors in Vegas on any given day, you can see this beautiful new arena succeeding as more and more people who go to Vegas are not gamblers but people like you and me (unless you have a problem) and just want to be entertained.
Seeing the Leafs play in Vegas would be a gas, just like it is in Tampa or AZ.   

[Nik]

The team will grow into the market, the amount of money in the area is probably the highest in the country and despite years of negative results, I can attest that Gila is pretty much full when I go to the games and the resto's and restaurants in the area are packed before the games. Doesn't hurt that the Cardinals play right next door.

The most money in the country is in New York. Then LA. Then Chicago. Then Washington. I don't think Phoenix's economy would be on a top 10 list of US cities.

When we look at Vegas most people don't realize that the population is reaching close to 5 million and most of these folks are from the N.E. States and love hockey.

People don't realize that because it isn't true. It's nowhere close to being true. The entire population of the state of Nevada is only 2.8 million.

[Significantly Insignificant]

Scottdale/Phoenix is growing at a fantastic rate, the North is finished, as we do know that Winter is coming! The team will grow into the market, the amount of money in the area is probably the highest in the country and despite years of negative results, I can attest that Gila is pretty much full when I go to the games and the resto's and restaurants in the area are packed before the games. Doesn't hurt that the Cardinals play right next door.
I don't see the area letting go of the team as people in AZ seam to see the long term vision.

When we look at Vegas most people don't realize that the population is reaching close to 5 million and most of these folks are from the N.E. States and love hockey.  As there are close to a million visitors in Vegas on any given day, you can see this beautiful new arena succeeding as more and more people who go to Vegas are not gamblers but people like you and me (unless you have a problem) and just want to be entertained.
Seeing the Leafs play in Vegas would be a gas, just like it is in Tampa or AZ.

Highlander, do they ever do cross sport promotions?  So if you buy a ticket to the Cardinals game on Sunday, you get a ticket to the Coyotes on Monday, or something along those lines, or vice versa?

[Highlander]

Nik is right my figures are off, but there are 40 million visitors a year and the 2.9 million are mostly located in the Vegas area.
Your perceptions of wealth are also correct based upon overall populations of 10 Million in New York. Scottsdale on the other side of the coin is a more concentrated wealth, every other car is a Bimmer, a Merc, Range Rover, Bentley, a host of Corvettes and you probably see more Ferrraris in a day than in you would in Toronto in a year, so the concentration of wealth is immense.

I would love to go to a Cardinals game but I ususally arrive as the season is winding down and as AZ are usually at the top of the heap, it is hard to get tickets.  However the Phoenix Open is a total zoo, with up to 100K people out on the course on an one day.  People are dressed like normal golf fans, but you do see a host of folks in Business suites, Women in hooker gear or evening wear, worth at least one visit in your life.

[bustaheims]

Your perceptions of wealth are also correct based upon overall populations of 10 Million in New York. Scottsdale on the other side of the coin is a more concentrated wealth, every other car is a Bimmer, a Merc, Range Rover, Bentley, a host of Corvettes and you probably see more Ferrraris in a day than in you would in Toronto in a year, so the concentration of wealth is immense.

Phoenix ranks 59th in income per capita. Scottsdale isn't in the top 200. Maricopa County ranks 604th in terms of income per capita by county.

[Highlander]

Come down and visit and get your own impression, I have been all over the U.S and I never have seen such a display of wealth in my life and this includes West Palm Beach and other places

I defer to your stats though!

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Your perceptions of wealth are also correct based upon overall populations of 10 Million in New York. Scottsdale on the other side of the coin is a more concentrated wealth, every other car is a Bimmer, a Merc, Range Rover, Bentley, a host of Corvettes and you probably see more Ferrraris in a day than in you would in Toronto in a year, so the concentration of wealth is immense.

Phoenix ranks 59th in income per capita. Scottsdale isn't in the top 200. Maricopa County ranks 604th in terms of income per capita by county.

In fairness to Highlander, much like in Texas there are A LOT of people from other places/countries who have second homes in the area, I wonder how they figure into those numbers if it's not their primary residence.

[KadriFan]

Come down and visit and get your own impression, I have been all over the U.S and I never have seen such a display of wealth in my life and this includes West Palm Beach and other places

I defer to your stats though!

Tombstone and the Grand Canyon are definitely on my bucket list 👍

[bustaheims]

In fairness to Highlander, much like in Texas there are A LOT of people from other places/countries who have second homes in the area, I wonder how they figure into those numbers if it's not their primary residence.

That's a valid question, though I also question the extent that segment of the market would support the Coyotes.

My guess is their impact on the figures is minimal, as they're based on where people filed their tax returns. I imagine they'd have a stronger influence on observational impressions, though.

[Nik]

Either way, it costs 50 bucks to go to a game in most places in the States so the Ferrari and Rover crowd isn't the biggest deal in the world if they're not hockey fans for the most part.

The issue is really going to be can you convince people to go to the games and, if not, can you convince them to watch them at home. Phoenix has been a fast growing market for years now and the answer to both questions seems to be a resounding no. While some of that can be blamed on putting the arena in Glendale and some can be blamed on how generally bad the Coyotes have been I think that at the very least the Coyotes are on their last owner who'll be interested in keeping the team where they are.

[herman]

Which one will happen first?
A) expansion to Las Vegas
B) Arizona sold
C) Carolina sold

If I were the Vegas group, I might be more interested in picking up the Coyotes than building from the ground up.

[Nik]

Which one will happen first?
A) expansion to Las Vegas
B) Arizona sold
C) Carolina sold

If I were the Vegas group, I might be more interested in picking up the Coyotes than building from the ground up.

Being as the reports are that the Vegas expansion is going to happen in the next week or so that seems like a safe bet. I agree with you that buying the Coyotes might be a better option(although the expansion draft rules seem pretty friendly this time around) but I'd guess the NHL would prefer everyone staying where they are with Phoenix to Seattle and Carolina to Quebec City as back-up plans.

[herman]

Which one will happen first?
A) expansion to Las Vegas
B) Arizona sold
C) Carolina sold

If I were the Vegas group, I might be more interested in picking up the Coyotes than building from the ground up.

Being as the reports are that the Vegas expansion is going to happen in the next week or so that seems like a safe bet. I agree with you that buying the Coyotes might be a better option(although the expansion draft rules seem pretty friendly this time around) but I'd guess the NHL would prefer everyone staying where they are with Phoenix to Seattle and Carolina to Quebec City as back-up plans.

Thanks for the update, Nik.

Looks like the NHL is more keen to make money via expansion than sorting out its existing problems with troubled ownership.

[Tigger]

It might be a tire fire team to start with, but at least with expansion, I've read they'll get what, 4 straight lottery picks?

[Nik]

Thanks for the update, Nik.

Looks like the NHL is more keen to make money via expansion than sorting out its existing problems with troubled ownership.

I think it was Tigger who pointed out that Karmanos hasn't really made serious efforts to sell the team(or rather that he'd put such a high valuation/weird restrictions on his asking price) that there's really no way to know what's going on with the ownership situation in Carolina outside of Karmanos and his kids fighting about money and/or who might be interested in owning the team aside from him.

Or to sum it up, while things definitely look bad for Karmanos it might be a little premature to say the situation in Carolina is bad to the point of needing imminent solving.

Now off to cash my check from the NHL.