Author Topic: Mitch Marner: what now?  (Read 81129 times)

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Offline Bender

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1740 on: September 13, 2019, 11:50:50 AM »
I mean, it goes without saying a deal has to be done by season start, but I'm finally optimistic it's really happening now.  As of last night, the Marner family mouth-piece Darren Dreger finally changed his tune and started dropping a "I'm optimistic" and "I'm a glass half full kind of guy".  So I think Marner's camp let Dreger know they're close to signing, which is why he's all of a sudden reporting good vibes.

Yeah I heard that too so I think it's just a matter of time. Why drag this out though, for a few extra bucks you piss off the entire fanbase? Is squeezing every dollar the most important thing rather than leaving maybe $500k/yr on the table but you're revered by the fanbase or you force the Leafs to move a player to fit you under the cap and you're run out of town? It's not a good look. I hope there's a deal that at least all sides can live with even if it's less than ideal for all involved.
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1741 on: September 13, 2019, 11:58:35 AM »
Of course he's going to sign before the season starts, now that the Leafs have positioned it so that their offer necessarily goes down after that.  If he were even remotely thinking about wanting to leave, his "camp" (what a weird term) would have let something out by now.  And obviously no offer sheet was ever forthcoming.

If they really have offered him 7x11 he's be a monumental fool not to take it.  Set for life, likely forever popular in his home town, good chance to win a Cup, gets his "C" after Matthews decamps for The Valley of the Sun.

Why would he take 7x11 if he thinks he can get 3x9 and then get another big contract in three years?

7 x 11 = 77M
3 x 9 + 4 x 13 = 79M

While 13M sounds crazy now, in 3 years there will be a new US TV deal.  Increasing the US TV deal from 200M US per year to likely 1B US per year would increase the cap by 10M all in one shot, plus a small amount of growth each year until that point.  13.4% of the cap is 7x11 right now... it be easy for him to say three years from now he finally wants that 13.4% of the cap, especially since most of those will be UFA years.  That is probably his BASELINE and more is possible.

I don't blame the players for wanting to go shorter term.

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1741 on: September 13, 2019, 11:58:35 AM »

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1742 on: September 13, 2019, 11:58:42 AM »
Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

Kinda like... oh I don’t know... maybe gilmour?

Ya. And Doug Gilmour wasn't demanding the highest AAV for an NHL winger after his third season.

He also asked to be traded out of town when the leafs wouldn’t pay him what he wanted. And I’m pretty sure he held out in Calgary which is what got him to Toronto. But I could be remembering that part wrong.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 12:06:22 PM by Joe S. »

Offline Bender

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1743 on: September 13, 2019, 12:00:45 PM »
Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

Kinda like... oh I don’t know... maybe gilmour?

Ya. And Doug Gilmour wasn't demanding the highest AAV for an NHL winger after his third season.

He also asked to be traded out of town when the leafs wouldn’t pay him what he wanted. And I’m pretty sure he held out in St. Louis Calgary which is what got him to Toronto. But I could be remembering that part wrong.

What? This is the first I've ever heard about wanting to be traded out of Toronto.
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1744 on: September 13, 2019, 12:07:44 PM »
Assists. He wasn't in the top 50 in goals scored and is in no way an above average defensive player, at least not yet.

Putting aside a disagreement about defense 26 goals, the vast majority of them at even strength, does not make him a bad goal scorer.

I didn't say he was a bad goal scorer. The main dimension to his game is being an elite playmaker/assister though.

Kinda like... oh I don’t know... maybe gilmour?

Ya. And Doug Gilmour wasn't demanding the highest AAV for an NHL winger after his third season.

He also asked to be traded out of town when the leafs wouldn’t pay him what he wanted. And I’m pretty sure he held out in St. Louis Calgary which is what got him to Toronto. But I could be remembering that part wrong.

What? This is the first I've ever heard about wanting to be traded out of Toronto.

It’s all memories of articles so I can’t prove it, but he wanted a certain amount and I think stavro said no because of his financial problems so basically that’s what landed him in New Jersey. But again, memories, I could have the story wrong.

Offline azzurri63

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1745 on: September 13, 2019, 12:32:34 PM »
I'm personally tired of listening to it all. All the boards, TV and internet. Everywhere you go that's all that's being talked about.
Love the kid, love his talent, love his work ethic and desire but time to ship him off.

Asking way too much and I feel part of that blame is management (Dubas). Is it just me or are there some good deals being signed around the league but we seem to pay high price for ours.
Wasn't happy with the Nylander drama and at that time said send him off or let him sit and feeling the same now with Mitch.

He feels he's getting slighted and thinks he should get paid Matthews money.
Do I like Matthews contract? Not really but in my opinion he's the better player and more valuable. Needs to stay healthy and he will put up better numbers with the proper usage and linemates.

Getting back to Mitch hate to lose him but I think we've put ourselves in a bind with these contracts. I would trade him for some solid pieces, better contracts or take the 4 picks if he gets offered. Going to need some good drafting or more affordable players once Andersen Reilly need new contracts not even mentioning what they are going to do with Muzzin and Barrie.

I think the issue here is Marner doesn't want to play second fiddle and Matthews will always be the guy. The star, the guy in the spotlight and the face of the franchise.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 12:38:53 PM by azzurri63 »

Offline Bates

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1746 on: September 13, 2019, 12:37:34 PM »
Of course he's going to sign before the season starts, now that the Leafs have positioned it so that their offer necessarily goes down after that.  If he were even remotely thinking about wanting to leave, his "camp" (what a weird term) would have let something out by now.  And obviously no offer sheet was ever forthcoming.

If they really have offered him 7x11 he's be a monumental fool not to take it.  Set for life, likely forever popular in his home town, good chance to win a Cup, gets his "C" after Matthews decamps for The Valley of the Sun.

Why would he take 7x11 if he thinks he can get 3x9 and then get another big contract in three years?

7 x 11 = 77M
3 x 9 + 4 x 13 = 79M

While 13M sounds crazy now, in 3 years there will be a new US TV deal.  Increasing the US TV deal from 200M US per year to likely 1B US per year would increase the cap by 10M all in one shot, plus a small amount of growth each year until that point.  13.4% of the cap is 7x11 right now... it be easy for him to say three years from now he finally wants that 13.4% of the cap, especially since most of those will be UFA years.  That is probably his BASELINE and more is possible.

I don't blame the players for wanting to go shorter term.

You would be a financial fool to take tge extra risk of a 3 year contract for the perceived financial gain of $2 million over 7 years. Invest your early money and get signing bonuses without a chance they go away and that $2 million will easily be surpassed.

Edit: corrected years
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 12:40:24 PM by Bates »

Offline Bates

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1747 on: September 13, 2019, 12:39:50 PM »
Of course he's going to sign before the season starts, now that the Leafs have positioned it so that their offer necessarily goes down after that.  If he were even remotely thinking about wanting to leave, his "camp" (what a weird term) would have let something out by now.  And obviously no offer sheet was ever forthcoming.

If they really have offered him 7x11 he's be a monumental fool not to take it.  Set for life, likely forever popular in his home town, good chance to win a Cup, gets his "C" after Matthews decamps for The Valley of the Sun.

Not only set for life, but Marner is what?  22?  If he signs 6 or 7 years he'll STILL get another contract at 28/29 which will be worth tens of millions more like Tavares got at 27 years old.

Good point.  He'll not only be set for life, but the afterlife, too.

The only guy that I personally know who's set like that is God.
And it was in the paper today that Marner is getting 2 Million a year in endorsements, about what I thought he was getting.  Kiss that all goodbye in another market Mitch!   If you stay with the Leafs you can probably get that up to 3 or more over the years.  Whoever is advising you in nuts,  7X11.  Hell your still only 12 in our eyes.

I thought we were informed here that endorsement money was nothing substantial???

Offline Nik

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1748 on: September 13, 2019, 12:47:05 PM »
Of course he's going to sign before the season starts, now that the Leafs have positioned it so that their offer necessarily goes down after that.  If he were even remotely thinking about wanting to leave, his "camp" (what a weird term) would have let something out by now.  And obviously no offer sheet was ever forthcoming.

If they really have offered him 7x11 he's be a monumental fool not to take it.  Set for life, likely forever popular in his home town, good chance to win a Cup, gets his "C" after Matthews decamps for The Valley of the Sun.

Why would he take 7x11 if he thinks he can get 3x9 and then get another big contract in three years?

7 x 11 = 77M
3 x 9 + 4 x 13 = 79M

While 13M sounds crazy now, in 3 years there will be a new US TV deal.  Increasing the US TV deal from 200M US per year to likely 1B US per year would increase the cap by 10M all in one shot, plus a small amount of growth each year until that point.  13.4% of the cap is 7x11 right now... it be easy for him to say three years from now he finally wants that 13.4% of the cap, especially since most of those will be UFA years.  That is probably his BASELINE and more is possible.

I don't blame the players for wanting to go shorter term.

And I don't think it's just about the financial benefits either. I think a lot of guys are looking at the McDavid/Draisaitl deals as being cautionary examples about hitching your wagon to any team for 8 years with no control over things.
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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1749 on: September 13, 2019, 12:49:06 PM »
Of course he's going to sign before the season starts, now that the Leafs have positioned it so that their offer necessarily goes down after that.  If he were even remotely thinking about wanting to leave, his "camp" (what a weird term) would have let something out by now.  And obviously no offer sheet was ever forthcoming.

If they really have offered him 7x11 he's be a monumental fool not to take it.  Set for life, likely forever popular in his home town, good chance to win a Cup, gets his "C" after Matthews decamps for The Valley of the Sun.

Why would he take 7x11 if he thinks he can get 3x9 and then get another big contract in three years?

7 x 11 = 77M
3 x 9 + 4 x 13 = 79M

While 13M sounds crazy now, in 3 years there will be a new US TV deal.  Increasing the US TV deal from 200M US per year to likely 1B US per year would increase the cap by 10M all in one shot, plus a small amount of growth each year until that point.  13.4% of the cap is 7x11 right now... it be easy for him to say three years from now he finally wants that 13.4% of the cap, especially since most of those will be UFA years.  That is probably his BASELINE and more is possible.

I don't blame the players for wanting to go shorter term.

You would be a financial fool to take tge extra risk of a 3 year contract for the perceived financial gain of $2 million over 7 years. Invest your early money and get signing bonuses without a chance they go away and that $2 million will easily be surpassed.

Edit: corrected years

In my example, 2 million is the minimum.  Its based on his current 13.4% of the cap offer.  If he truly is a superstar, he'll command more.

Offline mr grieves

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1750 on: September 13, 2019, 12:52:13 PM »
I think the issue here is Marner doesn't want to play second fiddle and Matthews will always be the guy. The star, the guy in the spotlight and the face of the franchise.

Until opening day passes, it's hard to say that this isn't just his agent doing what he's supposed to do--wait for the moment where the team's need and the available dollars peak before signing--but I thought Jeffler's read of the situation was reasonable and could be what's going on. Maybe he does want to be "the guy." But that's just not going to happen on a team with two first overall picks, one of whom is a natural goal scorer the likes of which the league hasn't seen since Ovechkin arrived and, to boot, a center.

Offline Bates

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1751 on: September 13, 2019, 12:54:43 PM »
Of course he's going to sign before the season starts, now that the Leafs have positioned it so that their offer necessarily goes down after that.  If he were even remotely thinking about wanting to leave, his "camp" (what a weird term) would have let something out by now.  And obviously no offer sheet was ever forthcoming.

If they really have offered him 7x11 he's be a monumental fool not to take it.  Set for life, likely forever popular in his home town, good chance to win a Cup, gets his "C" after Matthews decamps for The Valley of the Sun.

Why would he take 7x11 if he thinks he can get 3x9 and then get another big contract in three years?

7 x 11 = 77M
3 x 9 + 4 x 13 = 79M

While 13M sounds crazy now, in 3 years there will be a new US TV deal.  Increasing the US TV deal from 200M US per year to likely 1B US per year would increase the cap by 10M all in one shot, plus a small amount of growth each year until that point.  13.4% of the cap is 7x11 right now... it be easy for him to say three years from now he finally wants that 13.4% of the cap, especially since most of those will be UFA years.  That is probably his BASELINE and more is possible.

I don't blame the players for wanting to go shorter term.

You would be a financial fool to take tge extra risk of a 3 year contract for the perceived financial gain of $2 million over 7 years. Invest your early money and get signing bonuses without a chance they go away and that $2 million will easily be surpassed.

Edit: corrected years

In my example, 2 million is the minimum.  Its based on his current 13.4% of the cap offer.  If he truly is a superstar, he'll command more.

It would have to be a lot more to make it worth the risk and get enough reward. The Leaf's could heavily front load the money and signing bonuses on the 7 year deal to mitigate that.

Offline Bates

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1752 on: September 13, 2019, 12:57:00 PM »
Does anyone know if NHL players have the ability to Incorporate and be paid that way like many Doctors have done in the last few years in Canada?

Offline 4EVRLEAFAN

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1753 on: September 13, 2019, 01:28:34 PM »
Progress?
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1172510872851423233&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportsnet.ca%2Fhockey%2Fnhl%2Fleafs-mitch-marner-made-progress-contract-talks%2F

Offline Highlander

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1754 on: September 13, 2019, 01:31:40 PM »
I have a feeling its going to be done by Monday,  Mitch read the letter and agrees.  ;)
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