Author Topic: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock  (Read 9800 times)

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Online Zee

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #135 on: April 26, 2019, 12:47:26 PM »
I don't see that working with Babcock.  Everyone would know that Keefe is the heir apparent right next to Babcock and I doubt Mike would want that.  He'd be second guessing everything Keefe suggests and probably overriding him on any decision just because he can.  It's either Keefe takes over or he stays with the Marlies.

That's contemptible; both Babcock possibly doing that and your suggestion that he would.


What has Babcock ever done but deflect blame away from himself when anything goes wrong? I've never heard him take ownership of anything since he's been the coach so why is my suggestion a reach?  He does what he wants, takes credit for success and is blameless in defeat. That's all he's shown in his time here.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #136 on: April 26, 2019, 02:44:59 PM »
Here's just one example of him taking the blame for something (admittedly a smaller thing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4lSosWXOKo

"It's all my fault, let's not kid ourselves." ~ Babcock

He praises his players often.

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #137 on: April 26, 2019, 02:48:26 PM »
He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

This is a line of criticism I honestly don't get. For starters, who even cares? I mean Dubas is jumping on all these grenades and we're sitting here knowing that it's all just media rhetoric to him. Not a single person heard him say it's his fault the PK struggled and thought "oh yeah that's right". Babcock just talks to the media in a different way, but it's not like he's ever been Ron Wilson-arrogant where he's constantly throwing his players under the bus or anything. Like you said, he's generally always trying to put a positive spin on things when talking to the media.

Online herman

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #138 on: April 26, 2019, 02:56:52 PM »
He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

This is a line of criticism I honestly don't get. For starters, who even cares? I mean Dubas is jumping on all these grenades and we're sitting here knowing that it's all just media rhetoric to him. Not a single person heard him say it's his fault the PK struggled and thought "oh yeah that's right". Babcock just talks to the media in a different way, but it's not like he's ever been Ron Wilson-arrogant where he's constantly throwing his players under the bus or anything. Like you said, he's generally always trying to put a positive spin on things when talking to the media.

Confirmation bias
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Offline Hobbes

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #139 on: April 26, 2019, 03:15:57 PM »
He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

This is a line of criticism I honestly don't get. For starters, who even cares? I mean Dubas is jumping on all these grenades and we're sitting here knowing that it's all just media rhetoric to him. Not a single person heard him say it's his fault the PK struggled and thought "oh yeah that's right". Babcock just talks to the media in a different way, but it's not like he's ever been Ron Wilson-arrogant where he's constantly throwing his players under the bus or anything. Like you said, he's generally always trying to put a positive spin on things when talking to the media.

Confirmation bias

There's also a lot of it spawned by those from the Fox News school of clickbait broadcasting. It doesn't matter if it's true, or taken wildly out of context, or deliberately misinterpreted and twisted to fit a reporter's narrative as long as it makes for an inflammatory story that generates lots of clicks from the rabid fans. They, in turn, for the most part don't know nearly enough to form their own opinion and/or can't be bothered to actually inform themselves on the subject so they'll suck it up (your confirmation bias on steroids).

How Shannahan, Dubas and Babcock choose to speak to the media probably has nothing at all to do with their internal discussions -- almost a Fight Club mentality -- and is purely whatever pablum they feel best suits their needs with the press. They've obviously decided that Mike's job is to cheerlead the process and the players, not throw them under the bus; and Kyle's going to take one for the team with his mea culpa act.

I would like to see one of both of the assistant coaches replaced (perhaps with Sheldon) to try something new. Kyle will have to try to do a bit more reshaping of the roster this summer, although he won't have much cap space to do anything once Mitch is signed.

I fully expect next year to be a step back during the regular season since we'll have some new/rookie defencemen to break in. We still should be a playoff team but we might have to fight a bit harder to lock down our spot and judging by this year's 8 first round winners maybe a bit of adversity/struggle at the end of the season is a good thing.
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

Online Zee

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #140 on: April 26, 2019, 03:18:16 PM »
Here's just one example of him taking the blame for something (admittedly a smaller thing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4lSosWXOKo

"It's all my fault, let's not kid ourselves." ~ Babcock

He praises his players often.

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

Great, you found one example from literally 2 years ago.

Offline .

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #141 on: April 26, 2019, 03:27:04 PM »
This thread reminds me of the "once we make it safe, they're coming home" quote from 2016.

Failure is equally tantalizing to the Toronto hockey media as success, if not more so. I've listened and read a bunch of sports writers and radio/tv shows, and it's like they're spinning a wheel of every player, coach, and visible manager, and creating a narrative around why this particular person let the team down. Babcock, Brown, Hainsey, Nylander, Gardiner, Marleau, Kadri, Andersen, Hyman, Kapanen, etc etc etc. It's unreal to see the vitriol gleefully being stoked in the name of talking points and ratings.

It'll never be a comfortable place for any player to play, let alone a hometown one. It makes the Tavares signing all the more remarkable.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #142 on: April 26, 2019, 03:28:04 PM »
 I really don't care how he talks to the media, I care how he runs the PP/PK and doles out the ice time, makes in game, out game adjustments. I know he's an NHL coach and we're all coaching from our chairs but some of his decisions were piss poor that we all saw. What's really bad is everyone, including Brian Burke and Cherry say he messed up. Cherry was 100% right last night when discussing the PP. He needs to let his best players stay out there. The only thing wrong with it is time. Babs is literally forcing them to do something within the 1st 45 seconds of it because they're off. A PP is 2 mins long so you need to give your best players at least 3/4 of that time to try and do something. The PP shouldn't be under pressure, the guys PKing should be under pressure.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #143 on: April 26, 2019, 03:39:46 PM »
Here's just one example of him taking the blame for something (admittedly a smaller thing):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4lSosWXOKo

"It's all my fault, let's not kid ourselves." ~ Babcock

He praises his players often.

He's not immune from criticism, and we should all be critical of aspects of his coaching, but this rhetoric of him ALWAYS deflecting blame and NEVER accepting responsibility is just not true.

Great, you found one example from literally 2 years ago.

Which took me literally 2 seconds to find. I think you're conflating "deflecting blame a couple of times" with "always blames others for mistakes and claims all glory for himself."

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #144 on: April 26, 2019, 04:16:12 PM »
We all know this by now:  the devil was in the details...
(Zee posted something about this before but the tweet contains a short summarization.  For those who non-subscribers):

« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 04:18:51 PM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline azzurri63

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #145 on: April 26, 2019, 04:50:53 PM »
After listening to both Dubas' and Babcock's press conferences yesterday I think this team is headed nowhere.
Honestly think next year is going to be a similar case.
Dave Feschuk thinks exactly the same about Babcock's coaching and decisions that may have cost us the series.
Babcock's horrible playoff numbers.
Decision to keep Hyman on the 1st line knowing he was playing hurt and not contributing which may have affected the whole line.
PP decisions and playing the 1st unit for only a minute.
Can go on and on with his coaching tactics.
Bottom line is he needs to go because he isn't changing a thing.

Dubas I know a lot of you disagree f'd up with Nylander. He even said should have got it done sooner and basically the late deal was suiting Nylander to fail.
Nylander had enough time to get his sh*t together during the season and didn't.
Playoffs non existent albeit crappy wingers but I know he can be better but is he a guy you can rely on in the playoffs?
I don't think so. Too soft and shys away from the dirty areas too much. One shift here and there doesn't cut it.
Paying Nylander what he did set the stage for Matthews and Marners contracts which now have completely fuk'd this team.
Dubas strikes me as Mr. Nice guy.
Should have played hardball with Nylander before season start and say hey you don't wanna sign for 6-6.5 then see you later. They would have gotten a decent return.
Are they going to get the same for him now? Tough to tell.
Anyway both Mike and Kyle screwed us this year and if things stay status quo aint going to be better next year.
Rinse and repeat I've been saying and hopefully I'm wrong.


Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #146 on: April 26, 2019, 05:21:03 PM »
Wanna quit swearing? It's annoying.

Nylander's deal absolutely, 100% had ZERO IMPACT on Matthews's deal. zero.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #147 on: April 26, 2019, 05:24:14 PM »
I'm not quoting the whole thing but Dubas did not screw us. Yes he mishandled the Nylander deal but whatever. It was his first big deal ever so he'll learn from it. He should have told him here's the deal, take it or sit out the year. You don't trade him as his value was extrememly low. As for the Nylander contract setting up Matthews and Marner's. Not a chance. His contract value has ZERO to do with either one of those guys. As for Willy having enough time. We can all say that from the outside but ask anyone who played at that level, it doesn't work that way. It's been proven over and over again, you can't miss training camp and be out for 3 months. It's not an excuse, it's reality. I think he'll be fine moving forward and his cap hit will be in line. Issue with a lot of teams now is that they can't afford to keep all their toys because there are no more bridge deals. Wait until you see this summer with all those RFAs and Cap implications. It should be pretty wild. Leafs aren't the only team facing this issue.
As for your comments on Babs, I won't disagree. I really don't think he's the right guy for this team. All one needs to do is look at the defensive system over his tenure.

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #148 on: April 27, 2019, 10:50:18 AM »

How does anyone in their right mind have a problem with those comments?

The people that blame the coach around here sound like the same parents that blame their goalie when johnny loses. Or yells at the coach when their kid isn't getting enough ice time. The same people that yell at the 15 year old linesman that misses an offside call. Give your heads a shake, or at least try to be reasonable in your calling for people's jobs.

Again I'll ask.....How is it possible that the losses are all the coaches fault and the wins are all the players doing? The players are winning despite the coaching and the team is losing despite the players efforts?

Like I said in the other thread, Babcock made some tactical errors. Andersen let in two terrible goals in game 7. Gardiner set up yet another Boston goal. I mean obviously that falls on the head coach right? I mean surely Babcock could have told Andersen to come out to challenge on a shot from the slot. Surely Babcock should of told Gardiner not to pull the reverse behind the net when there were 3 black jerseys behind him and no white in sight.

I mean...Right? Damn coaching.

Offline sickbeast

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #149 on: April 27, 2019, 10:59:33 AM »
The Leafs got beat by the better team in this series, it's that simple IMO.  Boston is big, mean, and skilled, and they are built for the playoffs.  They know how to win when it counts.  They are a more experienced team.

Taking Boston to 7 games was a very good showing by the Leafs.  I feared this type of outcome.  It's too bad.  And next season they are in a bit of a salary cap situation until Nathan Horton comes off the books AFAIK.  We'll see if Dubas can work some magic.  It seems like two years in a row now that the Leafs have wasted some good assets to make a run at things prematurely.  They could have traded Jake Gardiner for a haul this season and last year they had JVR.  I like Muzzin a lot but I don't really foresee the Leafs being a true cup contender next season.  I could be wrong.  It's just they are in a bad situation with respect to the cap.

If Kapanen and Johnsson are traded because of the salary cap situation I will not be a happy man.  I have said from the beginning that I would rather have those two guys as opposed to Nylander.  We'll see what happens over the summer but I do foresee some pretty major changes.  I don't think Babcock or Dubas are going anywhere.  But it will be interesting to see what happens with Nylander/Kapanen/Johnsson and perhaps even Kadri in light of his antics.