Author Topic: Media Thread  (Read 47762 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online nutman

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1810
  • Marner... This kid has game.
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #195 on: January 23, 2017, 02:30:58 PM »
Way to many stats.. people are getting way to deep into the inner works of the sport. I think it takes away from the game, so when I read any thing about a game and it goes deep into stats, I just drop it and move on. I have been watching for over 50 yrs, and I do know the game and how it works, but one thing I don't need is people taking apart every play right down to every second of every move.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21874
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #196 on: January 23, 2017, 02:43:49 PM »
Way to many stats.. people are getting way to deep into the inner works of the sport. I think it takes away from the game, so when I read any thing about a game and it goes deep into stats, I just drop it and move on. I have been watching for over 50 yrs, and I do know the game and how it works, but one thing I don't need is people taking apart every play right down to every second of every move.

That's fine, this is sport, not something really important, so people can enjoy it at whatever level they want. 

I'm kind of with you, actually, but not because I have anything against more complex stats.  I just think the ones being discussed so far don't really explain the game well.  In the future they'll get it.

Offline Nik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 28507
  • Not liking my posts is Cancel Culture
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #197 on: January 23, 2017, 03:12:58 PM »

I too hate information that challenges my assumptions.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
- Sean Doolittle

Online Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 13523
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #198 on: January 23, 2017, 03:35:46 PM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.

Offline Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7689
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #199 on: January 23, 2017, 06:25:07 PM »
I hate when my belief systems are challenged by the truth. But I am with Nutman on this one.  A little stats goes a long way. I just love the game and now its better than ever, so much faster, so many great changes to speed up the game.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Online nutman

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1810
  • Marner... This kid has game.
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #200 on: January 24, 2017, 11:31:20 AM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.


But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Offline leafsjunkie

  • Marlie
  • **
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #201 on: January 24, 2017, 11:44:48 AM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.


But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Like you saw the Leafs making the playoffs every year, for the last decade? Just sayin'

Offline Peter D.

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 2004
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #202 on: January 24, 2017, 11:49:26 AM »
I'm actually with nutman on this one. 

Advanced stats suck some charm out of sport.  Especially in baseball. 

Offline louisstamos

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1800
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Weapon
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #203 on: January 24, 2017, 12:00:14 PM »
That's fine, this is sport, not something really important, so people can enjoy it at whatever level they want. 

Exactly that.  The thing is with advanced stats (in every sport, not necessarily just hockey), you know when it comes to management and behind the scenes - teams keep track of all those things, and keep personnel to monitor those exact things.  Thus, fans who like numbers like to look at those things as well, as it gets them closer to the game/behind the scenes aspects of the game.  I myself, being a numbers nerd, really started getting into raw stats and stuff by getting into Fantasy Hockey, and started getting into advanced stats after that.  Hilariously enough, I really got deeper into advanced stats after the David Clarkson signing backfired, because I thought it was a good signing at the time based on his "intangibles" (grit, leadership, etc), while most of the AS community did not like the signing, and in the end he ended up being awful.  At that point, I was like "maybe these guys are really onto something."

But yeah, if you want to watch the game and not think about anything beyond basic numbers (goals & assists), that's fine.  If you want to dwelve into the effectiveness of players based on their advanced numbers, that's fine too.  There's no need for one to poo-poo the other for any reason.  If anything, it makes for more interesting debates (i.e: the eye test vs analytics debate over Jake Gardiner for years)

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21874
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #204 on: January 24, 2017, 12:23:25 PM »
That's fine, this is sport, not something really important, so people can enjoy it at whatever level they want. 

Exactly that.  The thing is with advanced stats (in every sport, not necessarily just hockey), you know when it comes to management and behind the scenes - teams keep track of all those things, and keep personnel to monitor those exact things.  Thus, fans who like numbers like to look at those things as well, as it gets them closer to the game/behind the scenes aspects of the game.  I myself, being a numbers nerd, really started getting into raw stats and stuff by getting into Fantasy Hockey, and started getting into advanced stats after that.  Hilariously enough, I really got deeper into advanced stats after the David Clarkson signing backfired, because I thought it was a good signing at the time based on his "intangibles" (grit, leadership, etc), while most of the AS community did not like the signing, and in the end he ended up being awful.  At that point, I was like "maybe these guys are really onto something."

But yeah, if you want to watch the game and not think about anything beyond basic numbers (goals & assists), that's fine.  If you want to dwelve into the effectiveness of players based on their advanced numbers, that's fine too.  There's no need for one to poo-poo the other for any reason.  If anything, it makes for more interesting debates (i.e: the eye test vs analytics debate over Jake Gardiner for years)

Good post, thanks.

Offline Bullfrog

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6103
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #205 on: January 24, 2017, 12:23:41 PM »
I'm actually with nutman on this one. 

Advanced stats suck some charm out of sport.  Especially in baseball.

Advanced stats are interesting when you want to dive into things a bit closer and objectively. But I agree, they can be a bore when they're constantly used.

Online Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 13523
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #206 on: January 24, 2017, 12:40:28 PM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.


But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Well to answer your question, yes I can see game by game good things the Leafs are doing both individually and collectively as a team, but I don't watch the other 29 teams in the NHL on a regular basis so the advanced stats can help when comparing the Leafs overall stats to other teams.   If I see Leafs and "Team X"* have the same number of points, but the advanced stats tell me the Leafs are actually winning while playing the right way, but "Team X" is sort of flukey and will come back down to earth, then that fills my heart with additional glee.

* - Team X may be one of Montreal, Ottawa or Vancouver for additional joy

Online CarltonTheBear

  • Administrator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 29860
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #207 on: January 24, 2017, 12:51:14 PM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.


But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Was the dress gold and white or black and blue?

Online Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 13523
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #208 on: January 24, 2017, 01:05:58 PM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.


But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Was the dress gold and white or black and blue?

Damn.  Touchè my man.

Online bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 22789
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: Media Thread
« Reply #209 on: January 24, 2017, 01:08:51 PM »
I only like advanced stats when they tell me good things about the Leafs.

But can you not see these things with your own eyes?.

Was the dress gold and white or black and blue?

It still blows my mind that, in spite of the optical illusions and deceptive visuals we encounter on a daily basis, people don't understand that cannot simply believe their eyes. Your eyes misinterpret what they see all too frequently.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan