Author Topic: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion  (Read 62590 times)

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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2020, 10:01:45 AM »
Next year is year 5 after the tank. Patience has run out in Leafland. I havent goven uo on Dubas yet. I rhonk hes a smart guy and will straighten the team out.

The heat on him, and the big-4 and maybe even Shanahan, will be drastically different if something like this happens again next year.

Given the lack of playoff revenue expectations during this weird period, I think Shanny and Dubas get a pass because who cares.

I don't think Shanahan survives given this is his second GM if things don't go well next season.  No doubt there's going to be heat on Dubas.

If Shanny goes so does Dubas.  They are on a very expensive clock.  Tick tick tick tick

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2020, 11:05:53 AM »
I'm not entirely sure how anyone in the media can put as much stock in this best of 5 loss as they would in any other playoff year. I certainly can't bring myself to.

Offline Frank E

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2020, 11:13:50 AM »
I'm not entirely sure how anyone in the media can put as much stock in this best of 5 loss as they would in any other playoff year. I certainly can't bring myself to.

I think there's some merit here.  This was basically a playoff series, you lose you go home.

Offline Highlander

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2020, 11:22:38 AM »
Next year is year 5 after the tank. Patience has run out in Leafland. I havent goven uo on Dubas yet. I rhonk hes a smart guy and will straighten the team out.

The heat on him, and the big-4 and maybe even Shanahan, will be drastically different if something like this happens again next year.

Given the lack of playoff revenue expectations during this weird period, I think Shanny and Dubas get a pass because who cares.

I don't think Shanahan survives given this is his second GM if things don't go well next season.  No doubt there's going to be heat on Dubas.

If Shanny goes so does Dubas.  They are on a very expensive clock.  Tick tick tick tick
They have at least two more years.  Nik is right, they need to find their team from the seeds they have sown.  (and add the few right pieces).
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
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Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2020, 12:04:07 PM »
I'm not entirely sure how anyone in the media can put as much stock in this best of 5 loss as they would in any other playoff year. I certainly can't bring myself to.

I think there's some merit here.  This was basically a playoff series, you lose you go home.

Sure, it was a "playoff series"...after a 5 month layoff with a 2 week window to get ready. Essentially, the Leafs started their season 2 & 3 and everyone is ready to blow up the team

Offline Hobbes

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2020, 12:09:04 PM »
I'm not entirely sure how anyone in the media can put as much stock in this best of 5 loss as they would in any other playoff year. I certainly can't bring myself to.

I think there's some merit here.  This was basically a playoff series, you lose you go home.

I also think Muz's loss was a major -- if not the -- deciding factor, perhaps even beyond the goaltending duel. The Leafs simply had nobody at all able to step into his minutes/role. The same would have been true if Matthews had gone down, or to only a slightly lesser extent Tavares or Reilly.

Most teams can lose some of their pieces and survive in the playoffs, but there are a few key irreplaceable cogs that simply cannot be lost if you're going to have any chance of winning a series.

I quite liked DGB's piece in the Athletic today [subscription link]
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2020, 12:10:59 PM »
One happy little side note that I don't recall having seen anyone mention....Paul McFarland is leaving to go coach in the OHL so maybe we'll get a new offensive coach who can draw up more than one zone entry play for the PP.
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

Online herman

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2020, 12:17:10 PM »
One happy little side note that I don't recall having seen anyone mention....Paul McFarland is leaving to go coach in the OHL so maybe we'll get a new offensive coach who can draw up more than one zone entry play for the PP.

I think there's a chance Hakstol doesn't come back either. Keefe came in partway through the season and normally they get a chance to hire their own bench team.

Friedman hinted at Boudreau being available, even though he's clearly a head coach.
Keefe, AJ MacLean (off), Bruce Boudreau (def) wouldn't bother me.
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Offline Nik

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2020, 12:26:07 PM »
Next year is year 5 after the tank. Patience has run out in Leafland. I havent goven uo on Dubas yet. I rhonk hes a smart guy and will straighten the team out.

Leaving aside the fact that moves made to satisfy impatient fans are almost certainly going to be bad ones there's just an inescapable reality here that impatience doesn't impact.

They're not good enough. Their prospect base is terrible. The "tank" was never really embraced because the only year where they actually shed assets to be bad didn't see them do it fully which means they never grew the sort of depth they needed. Look at Ottawa's collection of picks this year for an example of how these things realistically need to be done.

Impatience in Leafland doomed the team to irrelevance for 25 years. It'd be a real shame if more of it derailed the only promising start the Leafs have had in that time.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
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Offline .

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2020, 12:40:24 PM »
It's going to be a very interesting offseason, insofar as how covid will affect the landscape. You've got teams like the leafs that are essentially capped out and were counting on a scaled increase that won't happen, and you've also got other franchises with an internal cap that will want to shed money due to the revenue conditions.

It's going to be really hard to move a player without taking money back. Dubas in his press conference mentioned that the leafs have more cap room than people think, but I'm at a loss to figure out how.

Offline Frank E

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2020, 12:53:32 PM »
Next year is year 5 after the tank. Patience has run out in Leafland. I havent goven uo on Dubas yet. I rhonk hes a smart guy and will straighten the team out.

Leaving aside the fact that moves made to satisfy impatient fans are almost certainly going to be bad ones there's just an inescapable reality here that impatience doesn't impact.

They're not good enough. Their prospect base is terrible. The "tank" was never really embraced because the only year where they actually shed assets to be bad didn't see them do it fully which means they never grew the sort of depth they needed. Look at Ottawa's collection of picks this year for an example of how these things realistically need to be done.

Impatience in Leafland doomed the team to irrelevance for 25 years. It'd be a real shame if more of it derailed the only promising start the Leafs have had in that time.

What is the patience request referring to? 

I don't understand what you're suggesting the Leafs should be doing.

Offline Nik

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2020, 01:15:00 PM »
What is the patience request referring to? 

I don't understand what you're suggesting the Leafs should be doing.

I went into it in my previous post but what I'm saying is that the Leafs aren't good enough, as in the talent level on the club isn't high enough, and that it's not an issue of character or leadership among their top forwards. They need to get better, just arranging a similarly talented group differently won't cut it, and with the cap situation being what it is their only way to take the fairly considerable step forward in talent they need is going to have to come through internal development.

There isn't any one thing they should be doing because you can't really force that but that's really the only thing that will take them from where they are to being one of the top teams in the league.

Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
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Offline Highlander

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2020, 01:27:54 PM »
Next year is year 5 after the tank. Patience has run out in Leafland. I havent goven uo on Dubas yet. I rhonk hes a smart guy and will straighten the team out.

Leaving aside the fact that moves made to satisfy impatient fans are almost certainly going to be bad ones there's just an inescapable reality here that impatience doesn't impact.

They're not good enough. Their prospect base is terrible. The "tank" was never really embraced because the only year where they actually shed assets to be bad didn't see them do it fully which means they never grew the sort of depth they needed. Look at Ottawa's collection of picks this year for an example of how these things realistically need to be done.

Impatience in Leafland doomed the team to irrelevance for 25 years. It'd be a real shame if more of it derailed the only promising start the Leafs have had in that time.
Ya think of the assets we could have had for a host of Leafs; JVR, Bozak, Komarov, Gardner and I am sure there are a few others.  That's a lot of potential picks.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
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Offline berserker

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2020, 01:48:57 PM »
The only thing wrong is we paid kids
top dollar for potential. Remember they are only 22.  Most players hit their stride and complete game at 24 to 28.   The whole league is overpaying for potential.   It all started with Edmonton paying all of the 1 St round piccks
that they acquired.   Put a true power forward with these guys and watch out.

Offline Frank E

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Re: 2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2020, 01:53:02 PM »
What is the patience request referring to? 

I don't understand what you're suggesting the Leafs should be doing.

I went into it in my previous post but what I'm saying is that the Leafs aren't good enough, as in the talent level on the club isn't high enough, and that it's not an issue of character or leadership among their top forwards. They need to get better, just arranging a similarly talented group differently won't cut it, and with the cap situation being what it is their only way to take the fairly considerable step forward in talent they need is going to have to come through internal development.

There isn't any one thing they should be doing because you can't really force that but that's really the only thing that will take them from where they are to being one of the top teams in the league.

OK, I see what you're saying.

Tougher to do when they keep trading away their 1st round picks.