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Messages - Bullfrog

I'd be reluctant to trade Jarnkrok. I think he gives good value for $2.1M.
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 29, 2023, 09:24:23 AMWell, this is an easy SKIP.

At least Liljegren will get lots of ice time?
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread
September 22, 2023, 09:34:22 AM
It's numbers like that that make me really want to see Matthews and Nylander back together.

WHy not try Domi at 3rd line center?
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread
September 22, 2023, 07:31:22 AM
I'm interested in seeing such talent up-and-down the lineup. However, I'm also a proponent of sticking with what's working. Nylander got 40 goals and 87 points in a particular position. I'd be tempted to stick with what works.

That said, we'd actually be pretty thin on a 3rd/4th line centre
Quote from: Peter D. on September 16, 2023, 01:22:50 AMDoes a teacher who asks their students to bring in photos of their family for a family tree or a timeline cross the line?

If someone who I'm chatting with, whether I know them or barely do says, "You have three kids...you're busy and blessed...do you mind sharing a photo of them so I can see what they look like?", I don't take it as anything more than curiosity and happily oblige. 

Now, if someone says, "You have a teenage daughter eh...would love to see a picture of her," then I'd take that as downright creepy.

Who the heck knows where this story falls.  I'd like to think Babcock is not stupid to have this be anything more than genuine interest in getting to know a player on a personal level.  Since this was done with every player, I also don't feel he was picking on or isolating certain players, nor made it an attempt to stumble on scandalous or nude photos or something.

Firstly, there's a big difference between someone randomly wanting to see pictures and someone like Babcock who is in a position of power (perceived or real is irrelevant.) This is the bigger issue.

Secondly, finding it creepy to show a picture of your teenage daughter but not your younger kids is really a personal judgment on your part. You're deciding it's creepy. This is the issue with Babcock. While it may seem totally normal and innocent to him (and to half the team who obliges), he must understand that he can't put the players in that position.

Maybe after he's gotten to know them, it'd be a bit more appropriate.
Quote from: bustaheims on September 15, 2023, 08:45:41 AM
Quote from: herman on September 15, 2023, 08:42:50 AMDreger is usually just a mouthpiece for trial balloons, so this is quite the floater.

Oh, it's a floater, alright. Just needs a good flush.

absolutely. I think it was a mistake by Babcock, but at most this is a conversation with his boss about sensibility.

But the comment about the younger ones feeling uncomfortable is what I was referring to earlier. Babcock is intimidating due to his personality, age, experience, etc. It's a position of power. He has to realize that younger players (who may or may not be comfortable with his ask) might feel coerced into doing something they don't want to do, even if it's innocuous.
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 13, 2023, 09:41:25 PMWell this isn't exactly a typical office manager/employee relationship. Coaches are often lauded I feel like for trying to get to know their players on a more personal level. I mean I think both Dubas and Keefe have been praised for that exact sort of thing. I don't think anybody would have batted an eye if Keefe asked Tyler Bertuzzi about what he did over the summer in their first meeting and then asked a picture of a cool waterfall or something Bertuzzi saw.

That's true, but I don't know if it necessarily works in favor of your argument. The coach has a direct impact on the player's career, even as simple as how much ice time they get. A coach (as seen in numerous lawsuits, criminal cases, etc.) wields power and influence over a player. Yes, these are professionals, but still fairly young humans and they will absolutely feel pressure to comply. Nonetheless, I agree this isn't on the magnitude of other stuff he's done. Praised for getting to know your players on a human level is great; but if Keefe asked to see the players' pictures (and even display them on screen, if this is true) would be equally weird.

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 13, 2023, 09:41:25 PMI also just don't really get the "what if they don't want to show photos" thing. I don't have kids, I don't have a fiancee I'm about to marry, I haven't been to a cool tropical vacation, but I do have cats and if someone I was trying to get to know asked me for photos of my cat I'm showing that person photos of my cat no problem. It doesn't really feel like that intrusive of a question.

You've answered your own question here. Directly asking to see a picture of someone's kids or wife (or <gasp> boyfriend) isn't as "normal" as it once was. But I suppose it really depends on how it's asked. I don't do this, but some of my friends blur out their children in any picture they share. That is to say: some people value privacy more than others. I don't so much, but it would be awkward to say, "sure, just look away as I scroll past the nudes."

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 13, 2023, 09:41:25 PMAt worst Babcock's "people skills" are awful and his attempts to get to know people feel significantly more forced than people with actual charisma like Dubas or even Treliving so his attempts to get to know others come across too strong. Even then though the Biz crew's spin on this whole thing is still absurd.

Definitely agree with this last statement. Ultimately, I think it's a non-issue, but it is an illustration of Babcock's lack in the subtlety department.
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 13, 2023, 09:47:49 AM
Quote from: Zee on September 13, 2023, 08:38:15 AMThis would involve giving Babcock the benefit of the doubt, of which I'm not prepared to do.  Also, the chicklets report was based on a player from Columbus reaching out to Bissonette with the story, so at the very least not all players were on board with what Babcock was doing.

The thing is there's very obviously truth to this story, the chicklets crew is just spinning it in the worst possible way. Babcock asking players and crew that he's met for the first time for pictures of their family and where they went on vacation over the summer isn't weird at all. It seems like a pretty solid way to get to know people beyond what they are as hockey players. Multiple people have essentially confirmed that this is just something Babcock does to break the ice with people. It's basically adult show and tell, and while as an introvert that sounds like hell it's pretty standard team building stuff.

For whatever reason Biz and co. (they hate Babcock and they love attention, the former is valid the latter not really) have spun that into "Babcock forcefully grabs peoples phones off them to see if there's pictures of drugs or nudes or other illicit activities to confirm that they're good people and if they refuse they're off the team".

Like I get it, Babcock sucks. And people are entitled to their opinion that he shouldn't coach in the NHL. But like wait until he actually F's up before taking the pitchforks out again.

I'm with you on the last part, but the rest is a bit weird. I wouldn't call it solid. What if a player doesn't want to share his personal photos? Now he's in the awkward position of feeling pressured to do so because it's the coach.

It'd be pretty strange if an office manager requested to see photos of their employees.
Non-Hockey Chatter / Re: Useless Thread
September 01, 2023, 09:15:49 AM
Seems legit.
Wait, he's younger than me?
Quote from: herman on August 23, 2023, 08:35:30 AM
Quote from: OldTimeHockey on August 23, 2023, 05:58:15 AM
Quote from: herman on August 22, 2023, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: OldTimeHockey on August 22, 2023, 12:56:35 PMHagel's signing should definitely drive down Nylander's ask. Hagel has similar numbers to Nylander at that age and brings more heart to the game.

Why? They're not in the same performance tier. Similar role though.

23yr old Nylander put up 59pts
24yr old Hagel put up 64pts

Equals = Same tier

I can't tell if you're being facetious lol

I'm having the same struggle.
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: What are they worth?
August 13, 2023, 07:13:06 PM
If Kyle Wellwood had heart, he'd have been a perennial 100-pt player.

Prove me wrong.
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on August 06, 2023, 01:55:07 PMAt first I didn't love this trade for Pittsburgh considering the lack of retention on Karlsson, but San Jose taking on over $12mil in cap space between 3 overpaid players and only getting a 1st round draft pick in return feels really, really weak on their part.

Article says San Jose is retaining $1.5M
Quote from: herman on July 31, 2023, 03:40:10 PMThe bad faith request still needs to be backed with statistical arguments, or else it'd be ignored. Like Terry's agent trying to demonstrate he has a reasonable comparable in Mitch Marner's 10+M would be laughed out and the arbitrator would really only hear the team side.

I think the arbitrator usually splits the ask because both sides have decent arguments for their interpretations of the results. Terry posted 37 goals in 75 games in 2021-22 (40+G pace, 16% of his team's total goal output), so I'm expecting that to be carrying a lot of the load in the 8M ask.

That's not entirely accurate. The arbitrator would have the discretion to apply as much weight to an argument as it wants.
i still don't get it.