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2019 MLB Thread

Started by hockeyfan1, February 19, 2019, 02:06:13 AM

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bustaheims

#60
Quote from: Nik Bethune on January 13, 2020, 11:31:45 PM
Pretty tough to punish players for something sanctioned by the manager and organization. You'd effectively be asking guys, and most of the Astros that year were young and or fringey players, to be crossing their employers.

Yeah. Also, any serious punishment for the players would have been met with strong resistance from the union for those same reasons - not to mention the difficulties MLB might have in identifying which individual players to target for this, how they'd justify that (especially if they have suspensions of varying lengths), etc. Going after the manager and GM is the path of least resistance, and, along with the loss of draft picks, sends a pretty strong message - and, as long as the Red Sox face similar punishment, it's a clear and consistent message. Stripping them of their titles would be the only thing that I'd like to see added.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Nik


I mean, let's be clear about this. This was not a significant punishment. The Astros fired their Manager and GM. Managers and GMs get fired every year. They lost 4 draft picks in a sport where draft picks are a bigger roll of the dice than any other. They got fined 5 million dollars which is the equivalent of a bad speeding ticket for someone like Jim Crane.

There's no real organizational consequence here. If you were the owner of another team and saw having to fire two employees, lose some draft picks and an insignificant fine as the punishment would it really deter you from cheating?
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

hockeyfan1

Pretty well sums it up:

QuoteGiving the players a free pass is the cost of doing business and it should allow the league to move on quicker than it otherwise would. Still, this cannot and should not be used as precedent to allow players to escape from future punishment. Whether they organized it, or were simply complicit, is irrelevant. The players are just all guilty, if not more, than Cora, Luhnow and Hinch and they should feel fortunate to have gotten away with it.


https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2020/01/14/while-astros-front-office-takes-the-fall-for-sign-stealing-scandal-the-players-get-a-free-pass.html

Highlander

No way the players should have been given a free pass.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Nik

I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

hockeyfan1

#65
Wow.  Just wow.

The scope of the Astros cheating is huge, as can be seen by an Astros' fan's study of the team's sign-stealing tactics via electronic means:

[tweet]1222506644761911296[/tweet]

A number of Houston players are particularly culpable, thus making the depth of this whole scandal ever more "infuriating":

QuoteThe findings quickly made the rounds, re-infuriating those who were wronged. Learning of how the Astros cheated was bad enough. Seeing everything laid out pitch-by-pitch and outcome-by-outcome made it all the more maddening.

Yulieski Gurriel, the older brother of Blue Jays left-fielder Lourdes, turned changeups he knew were coming from Valdez into a homer in the first and a single in the third. Tyler White homered off a J.P. Howell cutter he was expecting in the eighth and singled on a Bolsinger curveball in the fourth. Josh Reddick singled on a Matt Dermody hook while Jake Marisnick did the same on another Bolsinger curve that same inning.

Pretty damning stuff.

The sign-stealing noise signals:

[tweet]1219294290997915650[/tweet]


https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/pitch-catalogue-astros-sign-stealing-angers-17-blue-jays/