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#1
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by princedpw - Yesterday at 10:24:33 PM
Quote from: herman on Yesterday at 03:46:49 PM
  • UFA targets: multiple Defensemen and Leafs' cap room will make them a 'force' in this market; aiming for 2 big names
  • Bertuzzi/Domi: if they don't sign, it'll be down to term
These sources are either bad at math or their "big fish" are not the same as my big fish.  We don't have enough cap space for Domi+Bertuzzi+2 good D+even a bad goalie who can play 50 games (assuming we keep Marner).
#2
Before he was hired by the sens I wondered about the Leafs bringing Staios back into the organization in some capacity. Uhhh, it's maybe a good thing that didn't happen.
#4
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by herman - Yesterday at 03:46:49 PM
  • A bit of CapFriendly talk
  • No new developments on Mitch Marner, but some discussion about the sensitivities involved; EF thinks Leafs FO doesn't want Marner at his (likely) asking price.
  • EF: Keef was very careful when it came to Marner; curious if that would change under Berube
  • they put Willy on the market and didn't like the offers
  • unless Leafs can sell Marner on the change, EF thinks it goes into next season, as playing with Matthews is his best bet for a pay day
  • Goalies: Markstrom they'd love but would be complicated and other teams are more likely; Brossoit makes sense but would need a solid 3rd. Believes Leafs will try to get the best goalie they can get.
  • Suspects Vegas will be in on Marner
  • UFA targets: multiple Defensemen and Leafs' cap room will make them a 'force' in this market; aiming for 2 big names
  • Bertuzzi/Domi: if they don't sign, it'll be down to term


https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/1800595075237367908
QuoteThe Leafs had their eyes on Ferraro and Sharks forward Luke Kunin during the season and it's entirely possible Toronto GM Brad Treliving circles back on both this off-season – but he may have to work fast.
QuoteAs I reported almost a month ago, if the Toronto Maple Leafs approach Mitch Marner about waiving his no-movement clause, he will consider his options. Nothing has changed, aside from a sneaking suspicion I have that the Leafs have an idea where he would consider moving to. Marner wants to stay in Toronto, but if the Leafs don't want him, he'll weigh things out.

https://twitter.com/nhl_watcher/status/1801024559849537584
- directly quoting the text he gets from Darren Ferris
#5
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by cabber24 - Yesterday at 03:03:50 PM
Quote from: Rob on Yesterday at 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Peter D. on Yesterday at 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: Rob on June 10, 2024, 06:30:46 AM$12.5 x 8 and be done with it. 

This is where I've been at for a long time now.  This can be the easiest negotiation by offering him $100 million over eight years and just be done with it.
The third-highest cap hit in the league is what you're proposing, MACKINNON money.

If Mackinon were being signed this year he's be getting more. I know you know that matters for context.
Signed in September 2022. I think what the cap projections were at the time has come to fruition so I do believe it's a relevant comparison. Yes, the cap increase this coming season is a little higher than projected but close to the projected raise.

I disagree. This is exactly why Matthews chose a shorter contract, so he could maximize value upon renewal. If mackinnon were being signed this season he'd be looking for Matthews money, if not more.

 
Here is cap forecast from Sep 2022, they were correct.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2022/09/27/report--nhl-salary-cap-projected-to-make-4-million-jump-for-2024-25-season/

I do not understand why the Leafs continue to pay their stars so high. Is McKinnion an idiot or do the Leafs overpay? I think the Leafs overpay.

Do you think some team would have given Matthews more than $13.25m?  I think some other team would have.
Honestly, I don't know why Matthews got the top cap hit on just a 4-year deal. If you're going to pay someone more than anyone else a reasonable term length would be assumed.

Agents to Leafs: "I want more than all my peers". Leafs GM's: "okay".
#6
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by Rob - Yesterday at 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Peter D. on Yesterday at 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: Rob on June 10, 2024, 06:30:46 AM$12.5 x 8 and be done with it. 

This is where I've been at for a long time now.  This can be the easiest negotiation by offering him $100 million over eight years and just be done with it.
The third-highest cap hit in the league is what you're proposing, MACKINNON money.

If Mackinon were being signed this year he's be getting more. I know you know that matters for context.
Signed in September 2022. I think what the cap projections were at the time has come to fruition so I do believe it's a relevant comparison. Yes, the cap increase this coming season is a little higher than projected but close to the projected raise.

I disagree. This is exactly why Matthews chose a shorter contract, so he could maximize value upon renewal. If mackinnon were being signed this season he'd be looking for Matthews money, if not more.

 
Here is cap forecast from Sep 2022, they were correct.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2022/09/27/report--nhl-salary-cap-projected-to-make-4-million-jump-for-2024-25-season/

I do not understand why the Leafs continue to pay their stars so high. Is McKinnion an idiot or do the Leafs overpay? I think the Leafs overpay.

Do you think some team would have given Matthews more than $13.25m?  I think some other team would have. 
#7
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by cabber24 - Yesterday at 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Peter D. on Yesterday at 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: Rob on June 10, 2024, 06:30:46 AM$12.5 x 8 and be done with it. 

This is where I've been at for a long time now.  This can be the easiest negotiation by offering him $100 million over eight years and just be done with it.
The third-highest cap hit in the league is what you're proposing, MACKINNON money.

If Mackinon were being signed this year he's be getting more. I know you know that matters for context.
Signed in September 2022. I think what the cap projections were at the time has come to fruition so I do believe it's a relevant comparison. Yes, the cap increase this coming season is a little higher than projected but close to the projected raise.

I disagree. This is exactly why Matthews chose a shorter contract, so he could maximize value upon renewal. If mackinnon were being signed this season he'd be looking for Matthews money, if not more.

 
Here is cap forecast from Sep 2022, they were correct.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2022/09/27/report--nhl-salary-cap-projected-to-make-4-million-jump-for-2024-25-season/

I do not understand why the Leafs continue to pay their stars so high. Is McKinnion an idiot or do the Leafs overpay? I think the Leafs overpay.
#8
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by Rob - Yesterday at 02:42:43 PM
I mean, it's one thing to let your UFA's walk, it's quite another to just keep dealing picks and prospects for rentals.  That is really what has messed up this team.  No cheap talent.  They have to keep going to the UFA market, overpaying for marginal talent. 

Sure, it gets to the point where you may not be able to keep all your homegrown talent.  That is when you take advantage of dealing from a position of strength. Dealing those players you can't afford for what you really need, or for more picks. 

This team is bereft of any prospects that look like a sure NHL'ers except for Cowan.  Nothing on defense, and nothing in goal.  Hildeby is still a big question mark. 
#9
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by OldTimeHockey - Yesterday at 02:18:23 PM
Quote from: Bender on June 11, 2024, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: Joe on June 11, 2024, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Bender on June 11, 2024, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: OldTimeHockey on June 11, 2024, 10:55:38 AMSo I'll be honest, I haven't been paying very close attention to this because I think it's about 75% noise being caused by the media's desire for blood. This has fueled the fans to call for Marner's head on a spike. He wasn't incredible in the playoffs by any means but how he's the only one being thrown under the bus(other than Keefe) is beyond me.

I'm not saying "do not trade Marner in any circumstance" but I personally think that if the team is dealing from a spot of "but what if he walks away from the team for nothing standpoint" than they're not a team that is really interested in winning a championship.

Yup, it's all the media's fault.

Also I disagree. Poor asset management has put the Leafs where they are. Walking guys to free agency has put the Leafs where they are. You need assets in order to take big swings, and the Leafs have been bleeding assets for years.

Maybe I'm missing something but who did the leafs walk to free agency that led them to 'where they are now'?

Obviously it's not the reason, there's lots of reasons why the Leafs are where they are, but I don't buy the whole own rental idea and that we should hang on to expiring contracts (in this case Marner) or we're not serious about winning. Just off the top of my head we've walked Bozak, JVR, Barrie, Kerfoot etc.

I don't understand how worrying about assets walking for nothing means you aren't serious about winning. Is that how people feel if we don't use all our draft capital for rentals too?

*Edit I should probably rephrase my stance as the Leafs are where they are in large part due to poor asset management, of which walking guys to free agency is a subsection of that.

I typed a response to your original "it's the media's fault" response but walked away due to work getting in the way.

I didn't say that the media is at fault for where the Leafs are right now. I said the way this has eaten up all the talk in newspapers, broadcasts, podcasts and subsequently the workplaces and pubs is the media driving the conversation. I realize that it's an item that has to be dealt with but Marner doesn't become such a bum if the media(and herman) don't drive it down the throats of everyone at home.

In regards to the poor asset management problem, I was going to come back with "what assets walked for nothing", but that's already been asked. Like them, I forgot about JVR and Bozak..and also Barrie and Kerfoot. While I agree with you that you have to manage your assets and get something for them when you see they're going to walk for nothing, I also think you have to examine where those players fit in your overall structure and where your team is at in terms of legitimately competing to win in the playoffs. Despite their success or lack of success, the Leafs have repeatedly gone into the playoffs as competitive teams. Hindsight says their choices didn't work out, but I don't think trading Kerfoot for a 3rd rounder would have helped maximize that success. Now, Marner would bring in a much larger prize, so in that sense, it's definitely something you have to look at. But, he would also create a much bigger hole than any of the above assets, so that has to weigh heavily on your decision.
#10
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2024 Offseason Thread: Cha...
Last post by Joe - Yesterday at 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: Joe on Yesterday at 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on Yesterday at 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Peter D. on Yesterday at 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: Rob on June 10, 2024, 06:30:46 AM$12.5 x 8 and be done with it. 

This is where I've been at for a long time now.  This can be the easiest negotiation by offering him $100 million over eight years and just be done with it.
The third-highest cap hit in the league is what you're proposing, MACKINNON money.

If Mackinon were being signed this year he's be getting more. I know you know that matters for context.
Signed in September 2022. I think what the cap projections were at the time has come to fruition so I do believe it's a relevant comparison. Yes, the cap increase this coming season is a little higher than projected but close to the projected raise.

I disagree. This is exactly why Matthews chose a shorter contract, so he could maximize value upon renewal. If mackinnon were being signed this season he'd be looking for Matthews money, if not more.