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Other Hockey News & Views => General NHL News & Views => Topic started by: oldman on September 23, 2011, 12:36:15 AM

Title: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: oldman on September 23, 2011, 12:36:15 AM
sad, tonight someone tossed a banana on the ice in front Simmons when he was in the shootout. classy. :(
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sucker Punch on September 23, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
Quote from: oldman on September 23, 2011, 12:36:15 AM
sad, tonight someone tossed a banana on the ice in front Simmons when he was in the shootout. classy. :(

Maybe I'm just out of touch as a middle class white dude, but I didn't think racism when I read that.   My first thought was it was kinda funny, in a Three Stooges, slapstick kinda way.   Like he'd slip on it and go ass over tits.

I didn't connect the dots with the banana - monkey - black dude - racism thing until later.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deebo on September 23, 2011, 01:04:15 AM
Quote from: Sucker Punch on September 23, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
Quote from: oldman on September 23, 2011, 12:36:15 AM
sad, tonight someone tossed a banana on the ice in front Simmons when he was in the shootout. classy. :(

Maybe I'm just out of touch as a middle class white dude, but I didn't think racism when I read that.   My first thought was it was kinda funny, in a Three Stooges, slapstick kinda way.   Like he'd slip on it and go ass over tits.

I didn't connect the dots with the banana - monkey - black dude - racism thing until later.

It's been happening in european soccer stadiums for years and is quite widley known to be a racist act. On a few occasions people have come to soccer matches dressed in monkey costumes.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Stumpy on September 23, 2011, 01:13:29 AM
Quote from: Deebo on September 23, 2011, 01:04:15 AM
Quote from: Sucker Punch on September 23, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
Quote from: oldman on September 23, 2011, 12:36:15 AM
sad, tonight someone tossed a banana on the ice in front Simmons when he was in the shootout. classy. :(

Maybe I'm just out of touch as a middle class white dude, but I didn't think racism when I read that.   My first thought was it was kinda funny, in a Three Stooges, slapstick kinda way.   Like he'd slip on it and go ass over tits.

I didn't connect the dots with the banana - monkey - black dude - racism thing until later.

It's been happening in european soccer stadiums for years and is quite widley known to be a racist act. On a few occasions people have come to soccer matches dressed in monkey costumes.

I seem to remember someone in Montreal throwing a banana at Weekes a few years back.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sucker Punch on September 23, 2011, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Deebo on September 23, 2011, 01:04:15 AM
Quote from: Sucker Punch on September 23, 2011, 12:49:28 AM
Quote from: oldman on September 23, 2011, 12:36:15 AM
sad, tonight someone tossed a banana on the ice in front Simmons when he was in the shootout. classy. :(

Maybe I'm just out of touch as a middle class white dude, but I didn't think racism when I read that.   My first thought was it was kinda funny, in a Three Stooges, slapstick kinda way.   Like he'd slip on it and go ass over tits.

I didn't connect the dots with the banana - monkey - black dude - racism thing until later.

It's been happening in european soccer stadiums for years and is quite widley known to be a racist act. On a few occasions people have come to soccer matches dressed in monkey costumes.

Really?   That makes me sad.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Potvin29 on September 23, 2011, 01:51:02 AM
Pathetic behaviour.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 23, 2011, 04:25:22 AM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 23, 2011, 01:51:02 AM
Pathetic behaviour.



Pathetic and immature.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Potvin29 on September 24, 2011, 12:17:05 AM
Sad that no one in the crowd has come forward.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Darryl on September 24, 2011, 12:43:12 AM
My brothers place of work does some security at the JLC. Some of the guys he knows that work there said that no one in the section they think it was thrown out of would say a thing.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Mordac on September 24, 2011, 02:12:48 AM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 24, 2011, 12:17:05 AM
Sad that no one in the crowd has come forward.

But totally unsurprising. The human being will let you down every time.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deleted Account on September 24, 2011, 02:15:22 AM
What's really sad is that this person apparently went to the game with the specific intent of degrading Wayne Simmonds.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Mordac on September 24, 2011, 02:22:14 AM
Now let's not jump to conclusions...there is a remote possibility he was eating his lunch, and tripped.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Bullfrog on September 24, 2011, 07:59:33 AM
Quote from: Mordac on September 24, 2011, 02:12:48 AM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 24, 2011, 12:17:05 AM
Sad that no one in the crowd has come forward.

But totally unsurprising. The human being will let you down every time.

Wow. That's a pretty depressing comment.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on September 24, 2011, 06:07:40 PM
The fan actually did it twice. He also threw one when Simmonds scored during the game but it didn't reach the ice surface. I really hope they identify this clown and he gets barred from all AHL and NHL arenas.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Tigger on September 24, 2011, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on September 24, 2011, 07:59:33 AM
Quote from: Mordac on September 24, 2011, 02:12:48 AM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 24, 2011, 12:17:05 AM
Sad that no one in the crowd has come forward.

But totally unsurprising. The human being will let you down every time.

Wow. That's a pretty depressing comment.

I think it's great to see a pretty common front in response though, it is human to fail but it's also human to grow and I don't see support for the action.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: moon111 on September 24, 2011, 08:27:45 PM
The construction workers I work with would laugh at this, but none would condone it.  And they would welcome Mr.Simmonds into the ranks if hired.   But he'd never be treated as an equal if they didn't harass him for anything they could.  (And one better dish it back!)  If the guys were going out to the bar, Simmonds would definitely be invited.  Maybe they are jerks, but the onus is on everyone not to take the jokes/pranks/comments personal with people who you know are just kidding.  Everyone gets a chance at being the target of cruelty.  The vibe I get as the world gets more politically-correct, is it's better to exclude certain people in the social circle for fear anyone will be offended.  In a different situation, this banana toss in my mind would be border-line acceptable, but only if they already knew Wayne Simmonds and what they could get away with, if he'd take it seriously, were face-to-face, and were willing to take the retribution that was guaranteed to come back.  I have a real problem with the guy in the crowd.  This was a truly cowardly act from a complete idiot.  Harassing friends is one thing, harassing strangers is just wrong.  This wasn't funny, but that a guy could be so stupid is.  I had two friends/co-workers going at it, both having fun with it, and someone who didn't like one of them got him fired for saying something nobody was offended by.  They can make all the laws they like, in the end, there's only so much class one can expect from places like construction sites and the nose-bleeds in a hockey arena.  Simmonds did an excellent job rolling with the punches and for that I have deep respect for.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:14:33 AM

Well, nice to see that Wayne Simmonds decided to burn through his goodwill in record time:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur)
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 08:45:00 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:14:33 AM

Well, nice to see that Wayne Simmonds decided to burn through his goodwill in record time:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur)

How did this come up?  Did a reporter see it happen on the ice and ask Avery, or did Avery just bring it up?

Obviously it is wrong, but I'm going to assume this is a pretty widespread thing that goes on (judging from past hockey-playing experience and reading some of the stuff on Twitter retweeted by Bob McKenzie for example).
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: You're right on September 27, 2011, 09:03:39 AM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 08:45:00 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:14:33 AM

Well, nice to see that Wayne Simmonds decided to burn through his goodwill in record time:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur)

How did this come up?  Did a reporter see it happen on the ice and ask Avery, or did Avery just bring it up?

Obviously it is wrong, but I'm going to assume this is a pretty widespread thing that goes on (judging from past hockey-playing experience and reading some of the stuff on Twitter retweeted by Bob McKenzie for example).
I heard that the arena microphones picked it up.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 09:05:54 AM
That makes more sense then, thanks.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: You're right on September 27, 2011, 09:44:07 AM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 09:05:54 AM
That makes more sense then, thanks.
Now I actually see that Dreger is tweeting that there is only video - no audio. Maybe lip reading? I wish I could for the life of me remember where I heard it (but all was a blur this morning before coffee :))
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: louisstamos on September 27, 2011, 09:51:58 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:14:33 AM

Well, nice to see that Wayne Simmonds decided to burn through his goodwill in record time:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7024659/new-york-rangers-sean-avery-says-wayne-simmonds-called-homophobic-slur)

Not that I'm condoning it in any way, it's still very bad, but Sean Avery himself has said things that are a lot worse, both to players (the mic'ed up saying "I'm going to kill Giroux", and anyone remember the alleged Jason Blake incident?) and fans (the woman in Nashville).

In one sense, what Wayne Simmonds said was wrong and crossed the line.  In another sense, it's hard to rally behind Sean Avery of all people and say "Yeah, you tell him!"
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Stronger Than All on September 27, 2011, 11:04:30 AM
yes, Sean Avery is the morality king.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2011, 11:06:37 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in a world where Sean Avery has the moral high ground, but, if Simmonds did actually make a homophobic comment . . . not cool, Wayne. Not cool at all.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Bender on September 27, 2011, 11:22:30 AM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 11:06:37 AM
I'm not sure I want to live in a world where Sean Avery has the moral high ground, but, if Simmonds did actually make a homophobic comment . . . not cool, Wayne. Not cool at all.

Like he's the first one. Avery targeted him because Simmonds looked like a victim the other day and in some retarded form of equalization, singled him out for the homophobic slur.

I'm not saying it's ok to state a homophobic, but this seems so beyond fishy to me. After all this time I can't believe that Simmonds and a couple others weren't the only ones using slurs like that at their oppnonents. Its like once people have sympathy for other people Avery comes out to show that the victim isn't a saint.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on September 27, 2011, 09:51:58 AM
Not that I'm condoning it in any way, it's still very bad, but Sean Avery himself has said things that are a lot worse, both to players (the mic'ed up saying "I'm going to kill Giroux", and anyone remember the alleged Jason Blake incident?) and fans (the woman in Nashville).

I don't really think that "I'm going to kill ___" or the thing that one reporter alleged that he said, which he sued over and got a retraction of, are worse things to say.

And it's not about suddenly being a Sean Avery fan. It's about Simmonds being a jackass.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: Bender on September 27, 2011, 11:22:30 AM
Like he's the first one. Avery targeted him because Simmonds looked like a victim the other day and in some retarded form of equalization, singled him out for the homophobic slur.

And the fan who threw the banana wasn't the first fan to do that either. It doesn't make it any less stupid.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: louisstamos on September 27, 2011, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on September 27, 2011, 09:51:58 AM
Not that I'm condoning it in any way, it's still very bad, but Sean Avery himself has said things that are a lot worse, both to players (the mic'ed up saying "I'm going to kill Giroux", and anyone remember the alleged Jason Blake incident?) and fans (the woman in Nashville).

I don't really think that "I'm going to kill ___" or the thing that one reporter alleged that he said, which he sued over and got a retraction of, are worse things to say.

And it's not about suddenly being a Sean Avery fan. It's about Simmonds being a jackass.

Oh, Simmonds was definitely a jackass, I'm not denying that.  But this would be a bigger deal and there would be more of a backlash/response if the player in question wasn't Sean Avery.  It's an awful statement to make, but it's true...
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:27:36 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on September 27, 2011, 12:21:43 PM
Oh, Simmonds was definitely a jackass, I'm not denying that.  But this would be a bigger deal and there would be more of a backlash/response if the player in question wasn't Sean Avery.  It's an awful statement to make, but it's true...

Well, it'll be interesting to see what, if any, the response from the league is. The NBA came down pretty hard on players using similar terms last year and, hopefully, Bettman does the same.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: oldman on September 27, 2011, 12:32:27 PM
I've gone to over 50 NHL games and sat at ice level in almost half of them. Players on the ice go back and forth with profanity and name calling all the time. Why is this even making news?
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 12:32:27 PM
I've gone to over 50 NHL games and sat at ice level in almost half of them. Players on the ice go back and forth with profanity and name calling all the time. Why is this even making news?

Because slurs of this nature don't typically fall under acceptable limits of behaviour, even for professional athletes during competition. See, for instance, what I just said about the NBA.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deebo on September 27, 2011, 12:49:10 PM
I'm glad socitey is shifting to the point where homophobic slurs are finally becoming as unacceptable as racial slurs are.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2011, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 12:32:27 PM
I've gone to over 50 NHL games and sat at ice level in almost half of them. Players on the ice go back and forth with profanity and name calling all the time. Why is this even making news?

There's a pretty significant gap between acceptable trash talk and racist and homophobic slurs.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: brothert on September 27, 2011, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 12:53:35 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 12:32:27 PM
I've gone to over 50 NHL games and sat at ice level in almost half of them. Players on the ice go back and forth with profanity and name calling all the time. Why is this even making news?

There's a pretty significant gap between acceptable trash talk and racist and homophobic slurs.
Is there no cosideration given to context?  Where's the line?  If a slur happens on the ice it's a crime.  If guy gets punched out by a bigger it's not assault?

If Canadian soldier shouts out a slur while defending himself against the Taliban is it a war crime?

Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Corn Flake on September 27, 2011, 01:01:24 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 27, 2011, 12:49:10 PM
I'm glad socitey is shifting to the point where homophobic slurs are finally becoming as unacceptable as racial slurs are.

I think you hit the nail on the head with "shifting" vs. "shifted".  Society is on its way, but not there yet.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2011, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 12:59:51 PM
Is there no cosideration given to context?  Where's the line?  If a slur happens on the ice it's a crime.  If guy gets punched out by a bigger it's not assault?

If Canadian soldier shouts out a slur while defending himself against the Taliban is it a war crime?

Regardless of your hyperbole, there is no context where racial or homophobic slurs are acceptable. Period.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: brothert on September 27, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 12:59:51 PM
Is there no cosideration given to context?  Where's the line?  If a slur happens on the ice it's a crime.  If guy gets punched out by a bigger it's not assault?

If Canadian soldier shouts out a slur while defending himself against the Taliban is it a war crime?

Regardless of your hyperbole, there is no context where racial or homophobic slurs are acceptable. Period.
I want to live in your world where everything is so black and white.  I wouldn't get my feelings hurt so much.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2011, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
I want to live in your world where everything is so black and white.  I wouldn't get my feelings hurt so much.

It's not a matter of black and white - there are literally hundreds of other ways to insult people without bringing things like race and sexual orientation to the table. There's no need for intolerance when there are so many other options available.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Bender on September 27, 2011, 01:22:56 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: Bender on September 27, 2011, 11:22:30 AM
Like he's the first one. Avery targeted him because Simmonds looked like a victim the other day and in some retarded form of equalization, singled him out for the homophobic slur.

And the fan who threw the banana wasn't the first fan to do that either. It doesn't make it any less stupid.

No, I agree that it's stupid and still wrong, but doesn't it seem a little bit more than coincidental that Avery outed this guy about it after he was given publicity as a victim? Avery could've said this about anybody at any time but it just so happened that Simmonds gets nailed and singled out for it now? Seems to me he wants to simply bring Simmonds back from victim status.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 01:30:48 PM
Quote from: Bender on September 27, 2011, 01:22:56 PM
No, I agree that it's stupid and still wrong, but doesn't it seem a little bit more than coincidental that Avery outed this guy about it after he was given publicity as a victim? Avery could've said this about anybody at any time but it just so happened that Simmonds gets nailed and singled out for it now? Seems to me he wants to simply bring Simmonds back from victim status.

I'm not inclined to spend a great deal of time pondering Sean Avery's motivations for anything but being as this isn't the first news about Sean Avery taking a stance on these matters I'm not overly inclined to think there's whatever motivation behind it you seem to think there is.

But even if it is prompted by what happened to Simmonds, well, I think then Avery would actually be making a pretty good point. It is hypocritical to object to one sort of intolerance and then actively engage in another. Neither are acceptable.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Bender on September 27, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
I want to live in your world where everything is so black and white.  I wouldn't get my feelings hurt so much.

It's not a matter of black and white - there are literally hundreds of other ways to insult people without bringing things like race and sexual orientation to the table. There's no need for intolerance when there are so many other options available.

Well... can I play devil's advocate here? I mean, people still call other people "retard" or a "witch." I think both these terms have their own issues. Retard insofar as you're comparing the person to someone with a mental handicap, and witch is, moreso than anything else, a reference to gender.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 01:52:17 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 12:59:51 PM
Is there no cosideration given to context?

Of course there is. Everyone who is talking about this is putting it in the context of what is and isn't acceptable over the course of a hockey game which is, of course, the correct context.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: Bender on September 27, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 01:11:15 PM
I want to live in your world where everything is so black and white.  I wouldn't get my feelings hurt so much.

It's not a matter of black and white - there are literally hundreds of other ways to insult people without bringing things like race and sexual orientation to the table. There's no need for intolerance when there are so many other options available.

Well... can I play devil's advocate here? I mean, people still call other people "retard" or a "witch." I think both these terms have their own issues. Retard insofar as you're comparing the person to someone with a mental handicap, and witch is, moreso than anything else, a reference to gender.

Thats where I would would consider fa*%$t would be, with calling someone a witch, retard, @sshole or mother f'er all juvenile name calling. Those in my mind are far from calling a black guy the N word which is more a racial thing.
Avery is a punk and will never get any respect from me so maybe I'm biased. Besides what is worse, calling someone a f*&^$t on the ice or threatening to kill someone like Avery did? 
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on September 27, 2011, 05:33:37 PM
London news is now reporting that at least 4 people have come forward and identified the banana thrower by name which has not been released at this time.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 05:38:59 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:28:37 PMBesides what is worse, calling someone a f*&^$t on the ice or threatening to kill someone like Avery did?

For those of you playing at home, the correct answer is A.

Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:46:17 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 05:38:59 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:28:37 PMBesides what is worse, calling someone a f*&^$t on the ice or threatening to kill someone like Avery did?

For those of you playing at home, the correct answer is A.

Really, death threats are pretty serious. Funny though, I work with someone that swings they other way and He calls himself a F#G all the time.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 05:53:34 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:46:17 PM
Really, death threats are pretty serious. Funny though, I work with someone that swings they other way and He calls himself a F#G all the time.

Continuing to use the word casually isn't doing you a ton of favours.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 06:29:05 PM
Brian Burke weighs in:

Burke: "It's got to stop." (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7026513/toronto-maple-leafs-brian-burke-says-league-act-new-york-rangers-sean-avery-was-slurred)

Quote"If that happened, that is just so embarrassing and the league should not tolerate it," Burke said. "That should be treated on the same level as a racially charged incident. It's the same level of offensiveness and inappropriateness."
...
"I stopped. It's possible to stop and the league should definitely feel the need to use discipline in fines or suspensions."
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Madferret on September 27, 2011, 06:30:10 PM
Old Man

e|----0----0----0---0----0----0----0----0---h2---2---2---3---2---0---0-------|
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G|----5----0----0--h5---h5---h5---h5----2--------0---0---0---0---0---5-------|
D|----0----0----0---0----0----0----0----0--------0---0---0---0---0---0-------|
A|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
E|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|

e|----0----0----0---0----0----0----0----0---h2---2---2---3---2---0---0-------|
B|----6----6----6---6----6----6----6----0--------0---0---0---0---3--s6-------|
G|----5----0----0--h5---h5---h5---h5----2--------0---0---0---0---0---5-------|
D|----0----0----0---0----0----0----0----0--------0---0---0---0---0---0-------|
A|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
E|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: oldman on September 27, 2011, 06:31:25 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 05:53:34 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:46:17 PM
Really, death threats are pretty serious. Funny though, I work with someone that swings they other way and He calls himself a F#G all the time.

Continuing to use the word casually isn't doing you a ton of favours.

relax dude
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Tigger on September 27, 2011, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 05:38:59 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:28:37 PMBesides what is worse, calling someone a f*&^$t on the ice or threatening to kill someone like Avery did?

For those of you playing at home, the correct answer is A.

I don't think one would get into as much legal trouble with A, generally, fwiw.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Bender on September 27, 2011, 06:53:18 PM
Quote from: Tigger on September 27, 2011, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 05:38:59 PM
Quote from: oldman on September 27, 2011, 05:28:37 PMBesides what is worse, calling someone a f*&^$t on the ice or threatening to kill someone like Avery did?

For those of you playing at home, the correct answer is A.

I don't think one would get into as much legal trouble with A, generally, fwiw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDaiL7md0s
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Tigger on September 27, 2011, 06:57:58 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: JohnK's Revenge on September 27, 2011, 12:59:51 PM
Is there no cosideration given to context?  Where's the line?  If a slur happens on the ice it's a crime.  If guy gets punched out by a bigger it's not assault?

If Canadian soldier shouts out a slur while defending himself against the Taliban is it a war crime?

Regardless of your hyperbole, there is no context where racial or homophobic slurs are acceptable. Period.

I thought you liked Southpark?
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 27, 2011, 07:32:44 PM
This is a complete joke. Players do this all the time and it doesn't cross the line imo.

from the past....not for the faint of heart...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbu9bjb44NE
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: moon111 on September 27, 2011, 07:36:21 PM
I can't remember the last time I heard someone say something to another person to hurt them.  I don't even think Avery is out to hurt people with comments, he's just trying to get them upset/off their game.  Some comments have lost their meaning and people say them everyday without even realizing it.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2011, 07:55:28 PM
Quote from: Tigger on September 27, 2011, 06:57:58 PM
I thought you liked Southpark?

Touche. Though, at least, with those guys, you know they're making fun of the people who make the slurs rather than being intolerant themselves.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Tigger on September 27, 2011, 09:03:03 PM
Quote from: Busta Reims on September 27, 2011, 07:55:28 PM
Quote from: Tigger on September 27, 2011, 06:57:58 PM
I thought you liked Southpark?

Touche. Though, at least, with those guys, you know they're making fun of the people who make the slurs rather than being intolerant themselves.

Yeah... and that's why it's ok to say #&$%%^ #&$%%^ (*) (*) when you're on tv and !*^.

I think we learned something today. :)

Edit for 'h', dogamn monkey....
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that video on youtube with Bryan Trottier (and I forget who else) on the North Stars just giving it to another player from the bench?

If you look for it, beware: the language is extremely offensive.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2011, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that video on youtube with Bryan Trottier (and I forget who else) on the North Stars just giving it to another player from the bench?

If you look for it, beware: the language is extremely offensive.

That would be Kevin Stevens with Trottier giving it to Brian Bellows.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Mordac on September 28, 2011, 12:15:06 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that video on youtube with Bryan Trottier (and I forget who else) on the North Stars just giving it to another player from the bench?

If you look for it, beware: the language is extremely offensive.

That would be Kevin Stevens with Trottier giving it to Brian Bellows.

I remember that!
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 09:54:14 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 06:29:05 PM
Brian Burke weighs in:

Burke: "It's got to stop." (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7026513/toronto-maple-leafs-brian-burke-says-league-act-new-york-rangers-sean-avery-was-slurred)

Quote"If that happened, that is just so embarrassing and the league should not tolerate it," Burke said. "That should be treated on the same level as a racially charged incident. It's the same level of offensiveness and inappropriateness."
...
"I stopped. It's possible to stop and the league should definitely feel the need to use discipline in fines or suspensions."

Burke also did say though IIRC (paraphrasing) that he doesn't believe the word/slurs (used in a heated exchange during a hockey game) is/are necessarily a reflection of the player's views. Is it wrong? Yes. Offensive to most? Yes. A suspendable offense? I'm not so sure. Perhaps the NHL equivalent of washing the guy's mouth out with soap would be to fine him.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 09:59:54 AM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 09:54:14 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 06:29:05 PM
Brian Burke weighs in:

Burke: "It's got to stop." (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7026513/toronto-maple-leafs-brian-burke-says-league-act-new-york-rangers-sean-avery-was-slurred)

Quote"If that happened, that is just so embarrassing and the league should not tolerate it," Burke said. "That should be treated on the same level as a racially charged incident. It's the same level of offensiveness and inappropriateness."
...
"I stopped. It's possible to stop and the league should definitely feel the need to use discipline in fines or suspensions."

Burke also did say though IIRC (paraphrasing) that he doesn't believe the word/slurs (used in a heated exchange during a hockey game) is/are necessarily a reflection of the player's views. Is it wrong? Yes. Offensive to most? Yes. A suspendable offense? I'm not so sure. Perhaps the NHL equivalent of washing the guy's mouth out with soap would be to fine him.

The only problem with fining is $2500 is the maximum under the CBA.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 09:59:54 AM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 09:54:14 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 06:29:05 PM
Brian Burke weighs in:

Burke: "It's got to stop." (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/7026513/toronto-maple-leafs-brian-burke-says-league-act-new-york-rangers-sean-avery-was-slurred)

Quote"If that happened, that is just so embarrassing and the league should not tolerate it," Burke said. "That should be treated on the same level as a racially charged incident. It's the same level of offensiveness and inappropriateness."
...
"I stopped. It's possible to stop and the league should definitely feel the need to use discipline in fines or suspensions."

Burke also did say though IIRC (paraphrasing) that he doesn't believe the word/slurs (used in a heated exchange during a hockey game) is/are necessarily a reflection of the player's views. Is it wrong? Yes. Offensive to most? Yes. A suspendable offense? I'm not so sure. Perhaps the NHL equivalent of washing the guy's mouth out with soap would be to fine him.

The only problem with fining is $2500 is the maximum under the CBA.

Well, like I said that's pretty much a soap wash and all I think this probably deserves. Now, if he says it twice in the same exchange, can the league fine $5000? What about in the same game twice?
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Mordac on September 28, 2011, 11:26:54 AM
They would fine based on the incident, not how many times it was said.

Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 11:47:11 AM
Yeah, that would be my feeling too. Perhaps the NHL sould meet with the PA to re-work the max. fine depending on the situation but really, I'm not sure we need to come down harder on these guys then that given almost all of these are in the heat of physical combat.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 28, 2011, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: Mordac on September 28, 2011, 12:15:06 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that video on youtube with Bryan Trottier (and I forget who else) on the North Stars just giving it to another player from the bench?

If you look for it, beware: the language is extremely offensive.

That would be Kevin Stevens with Trottier giving it to Brian Bellows.

I remember that!
See my post above.......
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Mordac on September 28, 2011, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 28, 2011, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: Mordac on September 28, 2011, 12:15:06 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that video on youtube with Bryan Trottier (and I forget who else) on the North Stars just giving it to another player from the bench?

If you look for it, beware: the language is extremely offensive.

That would be Kevin Stevens with Trottier giving it to Brian Bellows.

I remember that!
See my post above.......

I don't remember that one.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Stronger Than All on September 28, 2011, 12:15:53 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on September 28, 2011, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: Mordac on September 28, 2011, 12:15:06 AM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 27, 2011, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 27, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that video on youtube with Bryan Trottier (and I forget who else) on the North Stars just giving it to another player from the bench?

If you look for it, beware: the language is extremely offensive.

That would be Kevin Stevens with Trottier giving it to Brian Bellows.

I remember that!
See my post above.......

Someone also made a "history will be made" parody of that.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Potvin29 on September 28, 2011, 01:05:04 PM
Someone's been charged...

QuoteLONDON, ONT.— Police have charged a 26-year-old man over an apparent racial incident in which a banana was thrown on the ice at a black player during an NHL pre-season game.

Police say Chris Moorhouse of London, Ont., has been served a summons for engaging in a prohibited activity under the provincial trespassing act.

If convicted, he faces a fine of up to $2,000.

The incident occurred last Thursday during the Philadelphia Flyers' 4-3 exhibition win over the Detroit Red Wings.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1061091--man-charged-in-banana-throwing-incident-at-nhl-game?bn=1
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: You're right on September 28, 2011, 01:10:49 PM
Quote from: Potvin29 on September 28, 2011, 01:05:04 PM
Someone's been charged...

QuoteLONDON, ONT.— Police have charged a 26-year-old man over an apparent racial incident in which a banana was thrown on the ice at a black player during an NHL pre-season game.

Police say Chris Moorhouse of London, Ont., has been served a summons for engaging in a prohibited activity under the provincial trespassing act.

If convicted, he faces a fine of up to $2,000.

The incident occurred last Thursday during the Philadelphia Flyers' 4-3 exhibition win over the Detroit Red Wings.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1061091--man-charged-in-banana-throwing-incident-at-nhl-game?bn=1
Wonder if they'll serve him banana bread in jail?
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Michael on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

Well apart from the racial connotations, there's potential for a player to get hurt.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Michael on September 28, 2011, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

Well apart from the racial connotations, there's potential for a player to get hurt.

The guy can come back and say that he threw it a long way away from the player with the intent to distract him and nothing more. No one can prove that it was racially motivated (unless the guy said so to others around him as he did it) and no one can prove that he intended harm to Simmonds.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2011, 01:58:18 PM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 09:54:14 AM
Burke also did say though IIRC (paraphrasing) that he doesn't believe the word/slurs (used in a heated exchange during a hockey game) is/are necessarily a reflection of the player's views. Is it wrong? Yes. Offensive to most? Yes. A suspendable offense? I'm not so sure. Perhaps the NHL equivalent of washing the guy's mouth out with soap would be to fine him.

The NHL: Leaving the moral high ground to Sean Avery and the NBA.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 02:01:07 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

Well apart from the racial connotations, there's potential for a player to get hurt.

The guy can come back and say that he threw it a long way away from the player with the intent to distract him and nothing more. No one can prove that it was racially motivated (unless the guy said so to others around him as he did it) and no one can prove that he intended harm to Simmonds.

I'm no legal expert but I'm pretty comfortable with the feeling that there isn't a lawyer on the planet that could get him off a charge based on player safety regadless of his intent.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2011, 02:07:52 PM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 02:01:07 PM
I'm no legal expert but I'm pretty comfortable with the feeling that there isn't a lawyer on the planet that could get him off a charge based on player safety regadless of his intent.

I'm pretty sure it came up during last year's thing with the Waffles but throwing something on the ice is illegal in most places regardless of intent/proximity to a player/whatever.

The article makes it pretty clear what law he's being charged with. Why he threw it doesn't seem to be an issue.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

They don't have to prove it was racism.

I'm pretty sure that the term and conditions you agree to when you buy the ticket states that you cannot throw anything onto the ice, for whatever reason. And if you throw something onto the ice, the venue can choose to pursue legal action. Since it was a racist act, the JLC pressed charges, usually no charges are pressed by the venue if it was hats for a hat trick or an octopus in detriot.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Manson on September 28, 2011, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

They don't need to prove why he did it, they just need to prove he did it.  Whether they're charging him with mischief or trespassing or whatever, intent is irrelevant.

***oops, looks like others beat me to it.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

They don't have to prove it was racism.

I'm pretty sure that the term and conditions you agree to when you buy the ticket states that you cannot throw anything onto the ice, for whatever reason. And if you throw something onto the ice, the venue can choose to pursue legal action. Since it was a racist act, the JLC pressed charges, usually no charges are pressed by the venue if it was hats for a hat trick or an octopus in detriot.

Not that is matters from a legal perspective but I also think that once a trick is scored, the players/refs know hats might be coming and are watchful for it. This banana? Not at all.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Corn Flake on September 28, 2011, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

They don't have to prove it was racism.

I'm pretty sure that the term and conditions you agree to when you buy the ticket states that you cannot throw anything onto the ice, for whatever reason. And if you throw something onto the ice, the venue can choose to pursue legal action. Since it was a racist act, the JLC pressed charges, usually no charges are pressed by the venue if it was hats for a hat trick or an octopus in detriot.

I think to add to Fanatic's train of thought ..... maybe this guy gets charged with mischief or whatever but if people are looking for this guy to be tried and hung by the balls for racial hate crimes or something, they are going to be very disappointed.   
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2011, 02:25:36 PM

People, read the article. It's pretty clear on what he is and isn't going to be charged with and why.

Either way, it seems like a pretty fitting punishment. He gets whacked with a heavy fine and the entirety of Canada knows what a contemptible moron he is.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:27:29 PM
Quote from: Corn Flake on September 28, 2011, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

They don't have to prove it was racism.

I'm pretty sure that the term and conditions you agree to when you buy the ticket states that you cannot throw anything onto the ice, for whatever reason. And if you throw something onto the ice, the venue can choose to pursue legal action. Since it was a racist act, the JLC pressed charges, usually no charges are pressed by the venue if it was hats for a hat trick or an octopus in detriot.

I think to add to Fanatic's train of thought ..... maybe this guy gets charged with mischief or whatever but if people are looking for this guy to be tried and hung by the balls for racial hate crimes or something, they are going to be very disappointed.   

No, he's not facing a criminal charge. The London police says he faces a fine of up to $2000. I think making his name public might be the worst thing that he has to face.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 02:30:40 PM
Okay, its a trespass charge officially. Still, it doesn't strike me as the safest thing in the world to be doing.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sucker Punch on September 28, 2011, 02:31:00 PM
Course the law won't do anything, but all they really need to do is give the internet his myface/twitter/whatever account.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Corn Flake on September 28, 2011, 02:36:12 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:27:29 PM
Quote from: Corn Flake on September 28, 2011, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:10:16 PM
Quote from: Fanatic on September 28, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
How can anyone prove why he threw the banana? Regardless of how it looks, how is this anything more than littering?

They don't have to prove it was racism.

I'm pretty sure that the term and conditions you agree to when you buy the ticket states that you cannot throw anything onto the ice, for whatever reason. And if you throw something onto the ice, the venue can choose to pursue legal action. Since it was a racist act, the JLC pressed charges, usually no charges are pressed by the venue if it was hats for a hat trick or an octopus in detriot.

I think to add to Fanatic's train of thought ..... maybe this guy gets charged with mischief or whatever but if people are looking for this guy to be tried and hung by the balls for racial hate crimes or something, they are going to be very disappointed.   

No, he's not facing a criminal charge. The London police says he faces a fine of up to $2000. I think making his name public might be the worst thing that he has to face.

I see thx.

The twitter mob is going to be very very disappointed in this.  Tar and feathers were being collected.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2011, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Floyd on September 28, 2011, 02:30:40 PM
Okay, its a trespass charge officially. Still, it doesn't strike me as the safest thing in the world to be doing.

It isn't, hence the law. Also, I'd imagine the JLC can probably ban him from any future events.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 28, 2011, 02:42:20 PM
So now he's famous for being a national idiot... and buying the world's most expensive banana. :D
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Manson on September 28, 2011, 02:43:14 PM
Here he is...

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3572/moorehouseweb3c.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/moorehouseweb3c.jpg/)

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/808/moorehouseweb1a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/moorehouseweb1a.jpg/)

Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2011, 02:47:27 PM

Well, congratulations to those of you who guessed a popped collar and shades. You win whatever the pool amount was split six billion ways.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Michael on September 28, 2011, 02:51:19 PM
Quote from: Deebo on September 28, 2011, 02:27:29 PM
I think making his name public might be the worst thing that he has to face.

Ya I think he would gladly give $2,000 and then some if he could just go back and undo what he did. The fine will seem like nothing compared to everyone knowing his name and what he looks like. If it hasn't already, then I am sure the reality of that will kick him in the ass pretty soon.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Deleted Account on September 28, 2011, 02:52:52 PM
Sucks he doesn't catch a mischief charge. He probably won't face the full fine either.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: 13 on September 28, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Saint Nik on September 28, 2011, 02:47:27 PM

Well, congratulations to those of you who guessed a popped collar and shades. You win whatever the pool amount was split six billion ways.

And congrats to all that are so moral and above stereotypes.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2011, 03:37:33 PM
Quote from: 13 on September 28, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
And congrats to all that are so moral and above stereotypes.

Yeah, that small minority of exceptional morality who can look down on this slimy d-bag.
Title: Re: Wayne Simmonds incidents
Post by: Sarge on September 29, 2011, 07:01:43 AM
* WARNING - Very course language *

Not only is this extremely funny but I think it's a very level headed opinin on the use of the other "F" word... from a gay man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc&feature=player_embedded