Quick links:  Login  |  Sign up  |  Site Rules  |  Support TMLfans

Menu

Show posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Show posts Menu

Messages - Bullfrog

#1
Quote from: herman on Yesterday at 05:27:15 PMFor those that aren't chronically online:
...

Lambert traditionally has covered Forwards + PK (kind of weird)
Van Ryn was on even strength Defense deployment last season.
Marc Savard did PP for Berube and Calgary most recently. One presumes he would also be overseeing face off set plays.

...

Not sure it's that weird. PK consists of 2 forwards and 2 defence (typically.) They have equal and important roles.
#2
Malgin's goals were pretty.
#3
Quote from: Bender on June 19, 2024, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 19, 2024, 09:44:59 AMI think this narrative of "it's a disaster if we can't trade X player" should stop. It's not a disaster. He played, he was paid. That should be the expectation. Life will move on.

Having him on the roster increases the chance of making and having success in the playoffs.

That's great that you think the "narrative" should stop, but I happen to think it's by far the worst outcome from a team perspective if he just walks. Life moves on, and the Leafs are a worse team and I don't think having the cap space is worth both not having Marner and not having assets come back from a Marner trade.

Worst outcome, sure. Disaster? no. There will be good players willing to sign in Toronto.
#4
Agreed it's not clear-cut, but I don't think it's that controversial to say having one of the best players in the league on your team will help the team be successful.

I'd take one Marner over two Bertuzzis.


Concerning success (addressing a previous post), it seems to be forgotten that the team lost in overtime in game 7. Had they scored one more goal, who knows how far they could have gone? If Marner gets traded for several lesser players and the team goes on to the 3rd round; it wouldn't necessarily be an accurate statement that they made it there _because_ of the trade.
#5
I think this narrative of "it's a disaster if we can't trade X player" should stop. It's not a disaster. He played, he was paid. That should be the expectation. Life will move on.

Having him on the roster increases the chance of making and having success in the playoffs.
#6
Quote from: herman on June 18, 2024, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 18, 2024, 03:22:40 PM
Quote from: Bender on June 18, 2024, 03:16:41 PMWhy do you say it's media "perceived?" Why is is the stuff about posturing sad? I don't think Treliving overlooked bending over backwards for Darren Ferris at all, I think he said no thanks.

herman's comments on posturing suggest that any of Marner's quotes are in service of posturing without any concession that they might be genuine on Marner's part.

This is what I said:
Quote from: herman on June 15, 2024, 09:20:33 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 14, 2024, 11:58:20 PM
Quote from: herman on June 13, 2024, 12:48:50 PMAgain, the content of what's being said through the media is all just posturing for bargaining position on both sides. However, how it's being said points towards a divorce happening one way or another.

Can't you concede that what's being said is possibly true and that it's not just posturing?

I believe Marner would prefer to stay. I also believe he believes he won't get what he and his camp think he's worth, and he is open to pursuing it elsewhere, hence the loveless "Marner will fulfil his contractual obligation" position.

Everything ever said to the media in this industry is for the purpose of posturing. That's how negotiations work when there is public interest.

Indeed. That doesn't refute my point. "I believe" he'd prefer to stay followed with "everything ever said" supports what I said.

My view is probably different as I'm in a licensed profession, but public interest means something quite different to me. There's no public interest in this "negotiation." I doubt very that either the Maple Leafs or Marner's agents will rely on public commentary to express their opinions. I'm certain they'll be fully articulated to the other party in private.

In any case, I respect your opinions and am not trying to undermine your views. I just agree with cw that the opinions on posturing are comical.
#7
He's consistently put up more points than Nylander while also getting Selke trophy nominations. He's got a solid argument that he deserves more.
#8
Quote from: Bender on June 18, 2024, 03:16:41 PMWhy do you say it's media "perceived?" Why is is the stuff about posturing sad? I don't think Treliving overlooked bending over backwards for Darren Ferris at all, I think he said no thanks.

herman's comments on posturing suggest that any of Marner's quotes are in service of posturing without any concession that they might be genuine on Marner's part.
#9
Only one more year of Tavares's $11M cap hit though. So that percentage will drop.

Keep Marner and figure out how/if to retain Tavares next year.
#10
Quote from: herman on June 13, 2024, 12:48:50 PMAgain, the content of what's being said through the media is all just posturing for bargaining position on both sides. However, how it's being said points towards a divorce happening one way or another.

Can't you concede that what's being said is possibly true and that it's not just posturing?
#11
Quote from: herman on June 09, 2024, 11:08:02 AMDeclarations aren't really persuasive arguments. We should also note that we've really only seen Marner in a playstyle that was literally designed to be give Marner the puck. However good Marner plays, I think it's self-evident it does not match up with his expected asking price and barely even matches his current cap hit.

11th in points over the last 3 years (7th in ppg), plays PK/PP, selke voting, 12th highest cap hit. 2nd straight season of 101-point pace.

"barely" matches is a thinly veiled insult. His play/value clearly matches his cap hit.

Go ahead and continue to be critical of his play, his fit, whether he or multiple lesser players are better, etc. But can you admit he's an extremely talented, valuable player who earns his cap hit?

We get you don't like him, but your criticism is becoming comical at this point.
#12
Quote from: herman on June 06, 2024, 01:32:51 PMThe dispute isn't whether Marner is a bad player or not (he's very good), but it's a) the unbalanced allocation of finite resources, b) playstyle when it counts the most, and c) future value. On all three counts, there is a significant argument that retaining the premium talent of Mitch Marner at his demanded price will be detrimental to playoff success going forward.

This isn't the Leafs throwing away homegrown skill while the roster is bereft of skill. There is still a very strong core in Matthews, Nylander, Knies, Rielly (sort of), and Woll (injury concerns aside) that we would ideally like to add a centre and another defenseman to. The re-balancing should've been taken care of last offseason.

But why aren't we talking about trading Tavares instead?

Panarin's playstyle seems to be doing just fine in the playoffs. No way he's getting the heat Marner is.

My biggest complaint with Keefe -- whom I generally liked -- is that there was too much reacting to the other team and not enough playing to strengths, forcing the other team to react.
#13
Quote from: herman on June 06, 2024, 09:11:37 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 06, 2024, 09:09:20 AMBut why only stats for games 5, 6, & 7. You don't get to those games except for winning in the first four. What about Marner's contributions in getting the team to the playoffs?

That's why I said it was cherry picking stats.

We should also make note that he's a completely different player in the regular season. Not all points are equal in terms of game-leverage.

Sorry, I was referring to the writer. I don't disagree. I'm all for valid criticism, it's just annoying when people use misleading stats as their evidence.
#14
But why only stats for games 5, 6, & 7. You don't get to those games except for winning in the first four. What about Marner's contributions in getting the team to the playoffs?
#15
Quote from: herman on June 05, 2024, 07:22:50 AMhttps://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5541393/2024/06/04/nhl-rumblings-zegras-marner-saros
QuoteMitch Marner's future has been the most-talked-about subject in the Toronto market. He's got a year left on his deal and a full no-move clause. Treliving and Marner's agent, Darren Ferris, as one would expect, met Tuesday.

"The thing I would say is, be very, very careful of what you read out there," Treliving said when asked about Marner speculation. "Mitch is a hell of a player. He's going into the last year of his contract. We're not going to comment on any players. Any business that we conduct, we'll do that between Darren Ferris and us. We're not going to do play-by-play on it. We've got to look at every possible way for our team to be better.

"Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing (with the no-[movement]). If there's a way to make our team better, we're going to do it. But we're certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, 'Look, we're different.'"

But as Treliving reiterated, they will explore any meaningful way to make the team better. That's his job as GM.

Look at this vote of confidence :)

100% gone.