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Just for Fun => Ok Blue Jays Talk => Topic started by: Nik on January 19, 2021, 05:54:54 PM

Title: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 19, 2021, 05:54:54 PM

Some interesting roster news. The Jays have apparently signed Kirby Yates. Yates was hurt and ineffective last year but the year before led the NL in saves and struck out 101 batters in 60.2 innings.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: The Empire on January 19, 2021, 08:06:35 PM
He's an experienced backend reliever that has a subpar FB but a wicked cutter.  Him Chatwood, Dolis and Romano should make for a good late inning option.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 19, 2021, 08:38:14 PM
Wondering if the Mets GM situation affects Springer signing with the Jays.  I?m still leery on having anyone from that Houston tainted team on the Jays but you can?t deny that he would be a hell of an upgrade on Grichuk
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 19, 2021, 10:21:23 PM

A few media folk on Twitter are saying Springer is close to or has signed with the Jays but nothing definitive from any of the big time newsbreakers.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on January 19, 2021, 10:36:57 PM
A little more concrete now...

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on January 19, 2021, 10:46:48 PM
Wondering if the Mets GM situation affects Springer signing with the Jays.  I?m still leery on having anyone from that Houston tainted team on the Jays but you can?t deny that he would be a hell of an upgrade on Grichuk

Just a thought here: if Florida is the widdle weenie, and California is the behind, then Houston really is T-town. Humidex checks out.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on January 19, 2021, 10:54:39 PM

There it is.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 19, 2021, 10:59:45 PM

Rosenthal has it at 6/150.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on January 19, 2021, 11:25:24 PM

There it is.
Who is this? Is this good?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 19, 2021, 11:29:08 PM
Who is this? Is this good?

George Springer is a power hitting CF who's been with the Astros his whole career. It's a big deal and not without risk but the Jays needed to upgrade their outfield defense, Springer does that, and he's a very good hitter.

I think it's definitely a positive move. It gives the Jays a lot of options in terms of moving one of their OF to DH or including them in a trade for pitching and all it costs is money. The Jays aren't close to the Tax so it doesn't really preclude them from making other moves and if they need to eat some of the back half...eh, they can afford it.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on January 19, 2021, 11:30:48 PM

There it is.
Who is this? Is this good?

Probably the top free agent position player that was on the market this off season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on January 20, 2021, 07:01:50 AM
Atkins slept a little easier last night.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 AM
Who is this? Is this good?

George Springer is a power hitting CF who's been with the Astros his whole career. It's a big deal and not without risk but the Jays needed to upgrade their outfield defense, Springer does that, and he's a very good hitter.

I think it's definitely a positive move. It gives the Jays a lot of options in terms of moving one of their OF to DH or including them in a trade for pitching and all it costs is money. The Jays aren't close to the Tax so it doesn't really preclude them from making other moves and if they need to eat some of the back half...eh, they can afford it.

Any chance it opens the door for other big names to be interested in Toronto again?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 20, 2021, 08:14:17 AM
Great move. Now, to the pitching. Paging Trevor Bauer....
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 09:36:26 AM
Who is this? Is this good?

George Springer is a power hitting CF who's been with the Astros his whole career. It's a big deal and not without risk but the Jays needed to upgrade their outfield defense, Springer does that, and he's a very good hitter.

I think it's definitely a positive move. It gives the Jays a lot of options in terms of moving one of their OF to DH or including them in a trade for pitching and all it costs is money. The Jays aren't close to the Tax so it doesn't really preclude them from making other moves and if they need to eat some of the back half...eh, they can afford it.

Any chance it opens the door for other big names to be interested in Toronto again?

There is rumbling the Jays are talking to Michael Brantley.  He's another outfielder.  But it would give them some flexibility on the trade market.  Whether you use Gurriel to acquire a top end pitcher or trade Grichuk and move Hernandez to more of a DH role it would be a good addition.  He's another Astros player and has a lot of injury baggage but the guy has a phenomenal eye and just doesn't miss the ball very often. 

I mean just in a hypothetical.  You take Gurriel + a big package of prospects and talk to the Cubs about Kris Bryant and Kyle Hendriks.  That would take you out of Bauer most likely but then maybe bring Taijuan Walker back and go with a roster of

LF Brantley
2B Biggio
SS Bichette
CF Springer
RF Hernandez
1B Guerrero Jr
3B Bryant
C Jansen
DH Tellez

Bench: Kirk, Grichuk, Espinal,

Rotation: Hendriks - Ryu - Pearson - Walker - Ray

Bullpen: Yates - Romano - Dolis - Merryweather - Cole - Kay - Stripling - Borucki

It's a bit of dream thinking but could be fun.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2021, 10:32:47 AM
Any chance it opens the door for other big names to be interested in Toronto again?

Between this and the Ryu signing I'm not sure you could fairly say that big name free agents are less interested in Toronto than any other team as a rule and I don't know how many more guys like that you could credibly expect the Jays to sign.

But, you know, if the Jays start winning and they have more money to spend...sure.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 10:44:53 AM
Ummmm, sweet?

1351904034182098945[/tweet]] (http://[tweet)[/url]

He's a beat writer for the Braves and writes for the Athletic.  So not sure if he is just confusing Brantley with Springer but there have been rumblings of the Jays getting both Brantley/Springer as a package.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2021, 10:47:33 AM

Feels unlikely he'd be the only one with that news but you never know.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 11:04:37 AM

Feels unlikely he'd be the only one with that news but you never know.

Yeah, mostly likely.  There haven't been any corroborations or clarifications.  Probably was just a mixup but still, those rumours are out there.  Would be a great addition especially given the trades it would also necessitate.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 11:20:57 AM
Keith Law's dislike of Cavan Biggio is amusing.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2021, 11:35:03 AM
Yeah, mostly likely.  There haven't been any corroborations or clarifications.  Probably was just a mixup but still, those rumours are out there.  Would be a great addition especially given the trades it would also necessitate.

Maybe. I think the only guy you'd have to trade there is Grichuk and I don't think he's valuable enough to land a big piece. Yeah you could move Gurriel and use Brantley in Left as opposed to DHing but that feels like a downgrade. And even then, unless you're seriously planning on Kirk as an everyday Catcher you don't have a spot for him in the line-up.

I get the appeal of using Gurriel to try to land a pitcher better than any of the FA's available(except Bauer, who I don't want anyway) but I might rather the Jays try to sign Taijuan Walker and/or James Paxton and roll with the line-up as is.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2021, 11:53:53 AM
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Now this has legs.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 11:58:05 AM
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Now this has legs.

Some fine legs indeed.  What a 24 hour move on the offseason. 

Just to keep the party rolling:

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 20, 2021, 12:03:45 PM
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Now this has legs.

The Jays lineup is getting scary for opposing pitchers, for sure. Brantley adds another solid all-around bat, while being a reasonable defender, as well (not good - pretty close to average, which is still an upgrade for the most part). Another starting pitcher or two, and some depth adds here and there, and we're in good place for the coming season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 01:30:13 PM
Time to fire Hazel May

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 20, 2021, 01:46:08 PM
Time to fire Hazel May


Could be just semantics, as the deal is contingent on passing a physical or has only been agreed to in principle, etc.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on January 20, 2021, 01:49:37 PM
We just signed Springer, good for the Jays and Rogers are willing to spend the $$$$$$
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 20, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
Time to fire Hazel May


Could be just semantics, as the deal is contingent on passing a physical or has only been agreed to in principle, etc.

Or not. Appears as though he's staying in Houston.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 20, 2021, 04:14:25 PM
Well that's disappointing.  Mostly because it takes away a good avenue to improve the rotation.  Back on the Bauer + Walker train for me.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on January 20, 2021, 05:01:38 PM
Springer is a much larger signing than Brantley.  And Brantley is 33 at least Springer is 31.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 20, 2021, 05:06:36 PM
Any chance it opens the door for other big names to be interested in Toronto again?

Between this and the Ryu signing I'm not sure you could fairly say that big name free agents are less interested in Toronto than any other team as a rule and I don't know how many more guys like that you could credibly expect the Jays to sign.

But, you know, if the Jays start winning and they have more money to spend...sure.

Yeah, I've sort of always been of the impression that Toronto was less attractive(until they start going all in)..which I suppose goes against what I'm asking...So, never mind. The joys of being a fan that only sort of pays attention.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2021, 05:43:31 PM

Another thing to consider is that while the Jays have payroll flexibility now, and could be generous on some short term deals, they are going to want to be able to re-sign a lot of the guys they have to team-friendly extensions so they probably can't go too crazy right now.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2021, 05:46:51 PM

re: Brantley I'm now seeing some people, credible people, saying the Jays weren't even close to signing him. I wonder what happened there.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on January 26, 2021, 06:32:03 PM

He had a huge 2019.

Like 3rd in MVP voting, 7.6 fWAR huge.

Slow start in the shortened season, but finished strong. Could be a massive addition.

Big salary but only 1 year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 26, 2021, 06:42:37 PM
Solid defensive addition, too. Could be a huge add if he recovers some.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 26, 2021, 07:27:54 PM

I really like this as a one year no risk move. Semien has played some 2B and 3B as well as primarily SS so he gives the Jays options when constructing lineups.

A downside is the lineup is very right-hand heavy but there are worse problems to have.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 27, 2021, 09:57:52 PM

Blue Jays make a weird trade, dealing Yennsy Diaz(Who MLB has as their #26 prospect), Josh Winckowski(#27) and Sean Reid-Foley for Steven Matz from the Mets.

Matz was terrible last year but in the two years prior was a serviceable back of the rotation guy.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 28, 2021, 12:15:11 AM
Between Stripling/Ray/Hatch/Thornton/Borucki/Merryweather/Kay/Roark they have a junk load of 4/5 starters.  Still hard to say if Pearson can be reliable as a 2/3 so the Jays really need one if not two reliable starters otherwise even a phenomenal offense will fall flat
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 28, 2021, 08:09:45 AM
Blue Jays make a weird trade, dealing Yennsy Diaz(Who MLB has as their #26 prospect), Josh Winckowski(#27) and Sean Reid-Foley for Steven Matz from the Mets.

Matz was terrible last year but in the two years prior was a serviceable back of the rotation guy.

Yeah. Don't love the addition of Matz. He's been mostly an averagish pitcher through his career, with a couple terrible seasons, including 2020. He does provide a LH option out of the pen, if that's where he ultimately ends up, though.

Not super fussed about what the Jays gave up. Don't think any of three pitchers they gave up will turn out to be much more than okay relievers.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 28, 2021, 09:51:18 AM

I know the hope for some is they add two more starting pitchers with Walker and Paxton being the guys most mentioned as free agents. If they do that, or add one guy and trade for another, then Matz is gravy. That said, it seems weird when you figure they're probably near their spending limit for the off-season to add Matz at 5 million so maybe this means they're only targeting one guy?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 28, 2021, 10:06:02 AM

I know the hope for some is they add two more starting pitchers with Walker and Paxton being the guys most mentioned as free agents. If they do that, or add one guy and trade for another, then Matz is gravy. That said, it seems weird when you figure they're probably near their spending limit for the off-season to add Matz at 5 million so maybe this means they're only targeting one guy?

Do they have any significant money guys rumoured or available to be moved out?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 28, 2021, 10:09:46 AM

I know the hope for some is they add two more starting pitchers with Walker and Paxton being the guys most mentioned as free agents. If they do that, or add one guy and trade for another, then Matz is gravy. That said, it seems weird when you figure they're probably near their spending limit for the off-season to add Matz at 5 million so maybe this means they're only targeting one guy?

Do they have any significant money guys rumoured or available to be moved out?

The only one you could maybe see a scenario where they trade him is Grichuk as the 4th outfielder at 10.3M/year for the next 3 years.  He's not a bad player but I just don't think he's going to have much in the way of trade value though so I doubt he gets moved.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 28, 2021, 10:11:45 AM
Do they have any significant money guys rumoured or available to be moved out?

Grichuk is the only guy who really fits the bill and his name has been mentioned in some trade scenarios. That said, it's tough to know if he really has value or if they'd have to take money back on it or eat most of it.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 28, 2021, 10:17:35 AM
Do they have any significant money guys rumoured or available to be moved out?

Grichuk is the only guy who really fits the bill and his name has been mentioned in some trade scenarios. That said, it's tough to know if he really has value or if they'd have to take money back on it or eat most of it.

Yeah, I suppose if it's not opening up money for the Pitchers needed, there's no real reason to make the move as Grichuk has proven to be at least somewhat serviceable. Unless you're interested in someone else's 10 million dollar pitcher but I guess that would just be buying another number 4 or 5
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 28, 2021, 10:26:07 AM

Well, the issue with Grichuk right now is playing time. If he's the 4th outfielder and you figure the DH spot is mainly going to see some mix of Vladdy/Rowdy/Kirk then he's not going to get a lot of at-bats. He's an awfully good 4th outfielder to have around if you're going to be paying him anyway but I think some people think that with the line-up so righthanded heavy that there may be value in shipping him out for peanuts and finding a lefty/switch hitter who can be around for pinch hitting duties. That or you make an offer of prospects to a team for a pitcher so attractive that they take Grichuk too.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 28, 2021, 11:23:30 AM

Well, the issue with Grichuk right now is playing time. If he's the 4th outfielder and you figure the DH spot is mainly going to see some mix of Vladdy/Rowdy/Kirk then he's not going to get a lot of at-bats. He's an awfully good 4th outfielder to have around if you're going to be paying him anyway but I think some people think that with the line-up so righthanded heavy that there may be value in shipping him out for peanuts and finding a lefty/switch hitter who can be around for pinch hitting duties. That or you make an offer of prospects to a team for a pitcher so attractive that they take Grichuk too.
Roger that. Makes sense.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on January 28, 2021, 01:03:14 PM

I know the hope for some is they add two more starting pitchers with Walker and Paxton being the guys most mentioned as free agents. If they do that, or add one guy and trade for another, then Matz is gravy. That said, it seems weird when you figure they're probably near their spending limit for the off-season to add Matz at 5 million so maybe this means they're only targeting one guy?

Do they have any significant money guys rumoured or available to be moved out?

In addition to Grichuk, maybe Roark.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on January 28, 2021, 04:24:33 PM
I haven't followed the Jays for a bit. Do we have any good hitters who can take the ball oppo? I know the big ticket is always upward swings and dead pull dingers, but I like base path pressure to manufacture runs and tire out opposing starters too.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 29, 2021, 09:10:16 AM

I don't entirely understand the interest in opposite field hitting but you can look up any player's spray chart, by year or for their career, on Fangraphs.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on January 29, 2021, 12:27:29 PM

I know the hope for some is they add two more starting pitchers with Walker and Paxton being the guys most mentioned as free agents. If they do that, or add one guy and trade for another, then Matz is gravy. That said, it seems weird when you figure they're probably near their spending limit for the off-season to add Matz at 5 million so maybe this means they're only targeting one guy?

Do they have any significant money guys rumoured or available to be moved out?

In addition to Grichuk, maybe Roark.
I'll so anything to get rid of the Doark.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 29, 2021, 01:18:07 PM
I haven't followed the Jays for a bit. Do we have any good hitters who can take the ball oppo? I know the big ticket is always upward swings and dead pull dingers, but I like base path pressure to manufacture runs and tire out opposing starters too.

I heard Devon White might be available.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 30, 2021, 11:57:58 AM

MLB's top 100 prospect list is out:

https://www.mlb.com/prospects (https://www.mlb.com/prospects)

Jays do alright. 3 guys in the top 50 plus SWR at 87. Pearson is at #10 and is the top RHP.

I think the interesting thing is that with Springer signed and Bichette at SS that makes 2B maybe the best eventual spot for Austin Martin which maybe makes Groshans a good piece to use in a trade for pitching.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on January 30, 2021, 01:19:06 PM

MLB's top 100 prospect list is out:

https://www.mlb.com/prospects (https://www.mlb.com/prospects)

Jays do alright. 3 guys in the top 50 plus SWR at 87. Pearson is at #10 and is the top RHP.

I think the interesting thing is that with Springer signed and Bichette at SS that makes 2B maybe the best eventual spot for Austin Martin which maybe makes Groshans a good piece to use in a trade for pitching.

I would worry about counting on Springer in CF for more than a couple seasons. If Groshans is involved in a trade for pitching, it would have to be for a #2 starter under control for at least 3 years.

My strategy for the rotation this year would be to sign someone like Odorizzi or Paxton and if you can, trade for a more proven starter without including a top prospect.

If a deal like that can't be made, go into the year and see how the market develops and how rotation depth performs during the season and leading up to the deadline and make your addition then if needed.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 30, 2021, 01:36:28 PM
I would worry about counting on Springer in CF for more than a couple seasons. If Groshans is involved in a trade for pitching, it would have to be for a #2 starter under control for at least 3 years.

Realistically I don't think you can ever really game plan more than a few years out anyway. I think Springer should be good in CF for another 3-4 years and if not you would still have Martin around or you just go out and get someone new.

I agree that you'd only trade Groshans if the return is something legit along the lines of the Snell or Darvish deals.

My strategy for the rotation this year would be to sign someone like Odorizzi or Paxton and if you can, trade for a more proven starter without including a top prospect.

Again, I agree but I personally hope that Taijuan Walker is the guy.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on January 30, 2021, 11:30:23 PM

I don't entirely understand the interest in opposite field hitting but you can look up any player's spray chart, by year or for their career, on Fangraphs.

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on February 02, 2021, 09:40:46 AM
So is a lockout inevitable after this season?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on February 02, 2021, 10:29:21 AM
So is a lockout inevitable after this season?

Strong possibility with the way things have gone so far - though, given MLB's history, if games are going to be lost, it's more likely via strike (which, for practical purposes, is a distinction without a meaningful difference, it just changes who initiates it).
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 02, 2021, 10:38:55 AM
So is a lockout inevitable after this season?

Yeah but it's been coming for a while. Between the service time stuff, teams not spending to be competitive and the luxury tax serving as a salary cap in all but name while profits have consistently gone up along with franchise values was going to lead to a fight regardless of the pandemic. What's gone on the last two years is a symptom of a lousy relationship, not the cause of one.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on February 02, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
So is a lockout inevitable after this season?

Yeah but it's been coming for a while. Between the service time stuff, teams not spending to be competitive and the luxury tax serving as a salary cap in all but name while profits have consistently gone up along with franchise values was going to lead to a fight regardless of the pandemic. What's gone on the last two years is a symptom of a lousy relationship, not the cause of one.

Oh absolutely.  I'm just enjoying round two of "the MLBPA isn't bargaining in good faith" from the media when its extremely obviously why they don't want to open up negotiation on the CBA to put the season into gear when it would let MLB impose whatever the hell they want.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 02, 2021, 11:55:05 AM

Well, good thing we moved Biggio off second.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on February 02, 2021, 10:26:00 PM

Well, good thing we moved Biggio off second.

Mike Petrillo tweeted out that Semien probably would have slotting in the top 10 if they counted him as a 2B which they didnt.  So not too shabby.   Gurriel, Bichette, Springer and Ryu all made lists.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 10, 2021, 12:00:26 PM

The Jays, it has to be said, look to be in pretty excellent shape right now.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on February 11, 2021, 01:04:37 PM
The Jays, it has to be said, look to be in pretty excellent shape right now.

A relatively quick turnaround too.

While 2017 and 2018 were rough, 2019 reminded me a bit of the 2015/16 leaf season where the record was bad but we saw some of younger players come up during the season and ended up with Aust(i)n in the next draft.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on February 11, 2021, 01:17:19 PM
When was the last time the Jays*, Leafs, and Raptors were contenders at the same time?

*almost there
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on February 11, 2021, 02:09:54 PM
When was the last time the Jays*, Leafs, and Raptors were contenders at the same time?

*almost there

Unfortunately the Raptors are definitely falling out of that window.  They are a good team but with the Lowry trade rumours rumbling, that team is a good 2-3 pieces away from being a contender.  The East is disgustingly bad right now so even if they trade Lowry they are probably still a playoff team.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 11, 2021, 02:50:29 PM

Just to sum up the Jays:

- Have so many good young position players it will be hard to get them all enough at-bats.
- Have a consensus top 5 in baseball farm system
- Only have 60 million committed past this year, which means they could have as much as 100 million to spend.

It's not perfect, the pitching staff needs help and we don't know when they'll actually be in Toronto again but it's a heck of a start.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on February 11, 2021, 02:55:16 PM
Their rotation is still really, really suspect to me.

Ryu has injury history but should be reliable.  Pearson is either going to dominate or will have control issues.  Everyone else is a huge question mark. They have a lot of 4/5 starters and are missing 1-2 middle of the rotation arms.  I still hope they sign one of the Odorizzi/Walker/Paxton crew now and then possibly get an upgrade at the deadline.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 11, 2021, 03:10:07 PM
Their rotation is still really, really suspect to me.

Ryu has injury history but should be reliable.  Pearson is either going to dominate or will have control issues.  Everyone else is a huge question mark. They have a lot of 4/5 starters and are missing 1-2 middle of the rotation arms.  I still hope they sign one of the Odorizzi/Walker/Paxton crew now and then possibly get an upgrade at the deadline.

It's not that I disagree with that but I think you need to contextualize that in the bigger picture. Are there teams like San Diego or LA who are in a significantly better spot than that? Yes. But beyond a handful of teams you're not going to find many without injury questions or multiple front line starters. If Pearson can be a legit #1 I really think they'd be pretty well suited even with a fairly minor addition like Walker or Paxton.

Now, admittedly, that's a huge if but developing pitching was always going to be part of the plan. Between Pearson, SWR, Manoah and even guys like Van Eyk there's reason to think they can be pretty good pretty quick if they even hit on a couple of those guys.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on February 11, 2021, 04:06:53 PM
Their rotation is still really, really suspect to me.

Ryu has injury history but should be reliable.  Pearson is either going to dominate or will have control issues.  Everyone else is a huge question mark. They have a lot of 4/5 starters and are missing 1-2 middle of the rotation arms.  I still hope they sign one of the Odorizzi/Walker/Paxton crew now and then possibly get an upgrade at the deadline.

It's not that I disagree with that but I think you need to contextualize that in the bigger picture. Are there teams like San Diego or LA who are in a significantly better spot than that? Yes. But beyond a handful of teams you're not going to find many without injury questions or multiple front line starters. If Pearson can be a legit #1 I really think they'd be pretty well suited even with a fairly minor addition like Walker or Paxton.

Now, admittedly, that's a huge if but developing pitching was always going to be part of the plan. Between Pearson, SWR, Manoah and even guys like Van Eyk there's reason to think they can be pretty good pretty quick if they even hit on a couple of those guys.

In fairness I'm just thinking this year.  I'm a big fan of SWR and Manoah in particular.  They aren't going to break with the team this year. 

Im not as comfortable with the back of the rotation this year wtih Ray/Roark/Stripling/Matz.  I think if you end up signing Paxton its probably just a 1-year deal, maybe a 2 year if you go Walker/Odorizzi.  I think that still fits with the SWR/Manoah guys breaking with the team in a year or two. 

I'm just strictly thinking about competing for this season because the prospect depth of this franchise has them very well set up to content with internal players in 2022 and beyond.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on February 11, 2021, 05:06:31 PM
Mike Wilner has landed on his feet quickly and will now be writing for The Star.  Absolutely despised him and his condescending self and homerism on the radio, but this could turn out to be a great add by The Star.  Hopefully he brings objectivity this go 'round than spouting off that Travis Snider has MVP potential.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 12, 2021, 11:25:06 AM

Joe Panik is coming back to the Jays. It's a minor league deal but if the current thinking is that the Jays will carry one extra infielder, one extra outfielder and a second catcher, Panik seems like a fair bet to be that extra infielder.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on February 12, 2021, 11:42:56 AM
Press the Joe Panic button ;)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Darryl on February 13, 2021, 11:45:27 AM
I like this team but share the thoughts they need another starter you can see starting a playoff game. Paxton or bring back Walker.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on February 28, 2021, 01:47:29 AM
Rogers getting rid of Blue Jays games is pretty big news on the broadcast side.

I?m not on the road enough to depend on the radio broadcasts, but what a disappointing decision. Simulcasting from TV does not capture the essence of the game. Even more so with the fact that Dan and Buck will be calling the game from a studio.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on February 28, 2021, 10:17:11 AM
Rogers getting rid of Blue Jays games is pretty big news on the broadcast side.

I?m not on the road enough to depend on the radio broadcasts, but what a disappointing decision. Simulcasting from TV does not capture the essence of the game. Even more so with the fact that Dan and Buck will be calling the game from a studio.

I suppose I'm sort of torn on it where my initial reaction to this news was the same as yours where I feel like a good radio broadcast is integral to the game and especially so for the Blue Jays where their radio broadcasting was such an ubiquitous part of my youth and crucial to my experience as a Jays fan.

That said, since Jerry Howarth retired I can't truthfully say I've listened to a radio broadcast and even then probably just a handful of times over the last half a dozen years outside of brief spots in the car or something.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on March 01, 2021, 05:16:37 PM
nothing press wise about the opener against the Yanks.  More Blue Jays chatter please.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on March 01, 2021, 06:14:23 PM
nothing press wise about the opener against the Yanks.  More Blue Jays chatter please.

It?s spring training. There?s never much press about these games.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on March 02, 2021, 03:07:26 PM
 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on March 02, 2021, 06:53:02 PM

So it definitely looks like right now the plan is to try and turn Martin into a CF which maybe would allow for them to eventually shift Springer to RF if things stick.

Which is also why I think the team should be generally open to the idea of trading Gurriel or Hernandez in the quest to beef up the rotation with Grichuk available as a temporary bridge.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on March 03, 2021, 01:15:43 PM

So it definitely looks like right now the plan is to try and turn Martin into a CF which maybe would allow for them to eventually shift Springer to RF if things stick.

Which is also why I think the team should be generally open to the idea of trading Gurriel or Hernandez in the quest to beef up the rotation with Grichuk available as a temporary bridge.

Does Hernandez bring much more than homeruns?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on March 03, 2021, 03:33:10 PM

So it definitely looks like right now the plan is to try and turn Martin into a CF which maybe would allow for them to eventually shift Springer to RF if things stick.

Which is also why I think the team should be generally open to the idea of trading Gurriel or Hernandez in the quest to beef up the rotation with Grichuk available as a temporary bridge.

Does Hernandez bring much more than homeruns?

Depends heavily on whether his COVID season was a fluke or not.  If his play last year carries forward he's absolutely a good overall hitter who gets on base well.  His defense is never going to be exceptional.  Between Gurriel and Hernandez I would probably favour LGJ as a guy to keep between the two.  If you can get a front end pitcher with Hernandez as a key component of that package I would be doing it.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on March 03, 2021, 03:56:19 PM
Depends heavily on whether his COVID season was a fluke or not.  If his play last year carries forward he's absolutely a good overall hitter who gets on base well.  His defense is never going to be exceptional.  Between Gurriel and Hernandez I would probably favour LGJ as a guy to keep between the two.  If you can get a front end pitcher with Hernandez as a key component of that package I would be doing it.

It's a tough call, because, so far, Gurriel has been the more well-rounded and consistent bat, while Hernandez showed last season he could be a more more productive bat. I don't know which I'd move right now. If Hernandez has another season with the production he had last year, I hang on to him, but if he regresses, I'd lean toward Gurriel.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on March 03, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
Depends heavily on whether his COVID season was a fluke or not.  If his play last year carries forward he's absolutely a good overall hitter who gets on base well.  His defense is never going to be exceptional.  Between Gurriel and Hernandez I would probably favour LGJ as a guy to keep between the two.  If you can get a front end pitcher with Hernandez as a key component of that package I would be doing it.

It's a tough call, because, so far, Gurriel has been the more well-rounded and consistent bat, while Hernandez showed last season he could be a more more productive bat. I don't know which I'd move right now. If Hernandez has another season with the production he had last year, I hang on to him, but if he regresses, I'd lean toward Gurriel.

That's almost why I'd favour striking while the iron is hot with Hernandez. If he isn't a 35+ HR guy and a full season shows it, then you lose a big part of his value for a potential trade.

Which is, admittedly, based on the hypothetical that a trade like that is out there but if you figure you have to move on at some point anyway trading him now seems like the risk I'd take.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on March 03, 2021, 04:28:33 PM
That's almost why I'd favour striking while the iron is hot with Hernandez. If he isn't a 35+ HR guy and a full season shows it, then you lose a big part of his value for a potential trade.

Which is, admittedly, based on the hypothetical that a trade like that is out there but if you figure you have to move on at some point anyway trading him now seems like the risk I'd take.

Yeah, that's fair. It's the bigger risk, but probably also comes with the bigger reward.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on March 03, 2021, 04:31:04 PM
Depends heavily on whether his COVID season was a fluke or not.  If his play last year carries forward he's absolutely a good overall hitter who gets on base well.  His defense is never going to be exceptional.  Between Gurriel and Hernandez I would probably favour LGJ as a guy to keep between the two.  If you can get a front end pitcher with Hernandez as a key component of that package I would be doing it.

It's a tough call, because, so far, Gurriel has been the more well-rounded and consistent bat, while Hernandez showed last season he could be a more more productive bat. I don't know which I'd move right now. If Hernandez has another season with the production he had last year, I hang on to him, but if he regresses, I'd lean toward Gurriel.

It's not huge development wise but Gurriel is a year younger and his production has been on a bit of a steady increase.  I kind of like Gurriel's chances of staying consistent given that his offesnive production has improved each of the last 3 years. 

I'm still a little wary that Hernandez goes back to having a terrible eye at the plate. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on March 03, 2021, 05:22:20 PM
Depends heavily on whether his COVID season was a fluke or not.  If his play last year carries forward he's absolutely a good overall hitter who gets on base well.  His defense is never going to be exceptional.  Between Gurriel and Hernandez I would probably favour LGJ as a guy to keep between the two.  If you can get a front end pitcher with Hernandez as a key component of that package I would be doing it.

It's a tough call, because, so far, Gurriel has been the more well-rounded and consistent bat, while Hernandez showed last season he could be a more more productive bat. I don't know which I'd move right now. If Hernandez has another season with the production he had last year, I hang on to him, but if he regresses, I'd lean toward Gurriel.
I am almost salivating at the thought of Gurriel/Springer/Hernandez as our outfield combo.  Going to be a hitting machine.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on March 13, 2021, 10:17:23 AM
I know spring training results aren't really much of an indicator of anything, but what do we think about this group thus far?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on March 13, 2021, 10:29:20 AM
I know spring training results aren't really much of an indicator of anything, but what do we think about this group thus far?

Ray's control has been promising.  His stuff is swing and a miss quality so if he cna get the ball over the plate that's a big advantage.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on March 14, 2021, 02:15:20 PM

Well, that's good.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on March 14, 2021, 02:17:25 PM

Well, that's good.

He’s my favourite Jays prospect of the last two years.  I’m excited for this kid.  He’s a massive country strong farm kid who throws hard but has good off speed stuff.  He might not be the best pitcher in our system but he’s up there and I’m a big fan.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on March 16, 2021, 06:09:22 PM
I think I am more high on Manoah at this time, than Pearson.  Great outing against the Yankees.  With the breaking news that Pearson has had a setback, I am starting to get a bad feeling about him achieving liftoff.  He seems to have a real problem staying healthy.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on March 27, 2021, 10:14:15 AM
Jack Leiter, the son of former Blue Jays pitcher Al Leiter is having one heck of a college season for Vanderbilt.

Saturday he threw a no-hitter: 9 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 16 SO

Last night he almost did it again in his next start: 7 IP 0 H, 0R, 2 BB 10 SO
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on April 01, 2021, 06:25:35 AM
Opening day today.

Few injuries to start the season, particularly Pearson and Ray missing from the rotation could maybe give a bit of a slow start.

Hopefully the lack of a "home" ballpark won't be too much of a hinderance either, but I'm hopeful that 90 wins could be obtainable.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 01, 2021, 08:31:15 AM

It's important to remember that this is still such a young team. Last year's unexpected success was great but honestly this year I'm really more focused on individual development then needing them to win right away. Seeing Guerrero take a step forward, Pearson be anything close to his potential, the gawd Alejandro Kirk fulfill his destiny as the best catcher in baseball...that's this season for me.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on April 01, 2021, 08:38:33 AM

It's important to remember that this is still such a young team. Last year's unexpected success was great but honestly this year I'm really more focused on individual development then needing them to win right away. Seeing Guerrero take a step forward, Pearson be anything close to his potential, the gawd Alejandro Kirk fulfill his destiny as the best catcher in baseball...that's this season for me.

I'm also interested to see how Woods-Richardson and Manoah develop. These 2 also have front of the rotation potential and could lessen the need for the Jays to go out and trade one of the top prospects in a package for a rotation arm.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on April 01, 2021, 08:45:31 AM

It's important to remember that this is still such a young team. Last year's unexpected success was great but honestly this year I'm really more focused on individual development then needing them to win right away. Seeing Guerrero take a step forward, Pearson be anything close to his potential, the gawd Alejandro Kirk fulfill his destiny as the best catcher in baseball...that's this season for me.

I'm hoping that the youthfulness will lead to fearlessness, allied with the little bit of swagger that some of those guys have been showing. That'll let them play loose and without pressure and maybe claim a few extra wins than  maybe they would otherwise
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 01, 2021, 08:47:37 AM

It's important to remember that this is still such a young team. Last year's unexpected success was great but honestly this year I'm really more focused on individual development then needing them to win right away. Seeing Guerrero take a step forward, Pearson be anything close to his potential, the gawd Alejandro Kirk fulfill his destiny as the best catcher in baseball...that's this season for me.

I'm also interested to see how Woods-Richardson and Manoah develop. These 2 also have front of the rotation potential and could lessen the need for the Jays to go out and trade one of the top prospects in a package for a rotation arm.

Well, sure. Those three were just examples. There are lots of guys I'm intrigued by on the big club and in the system.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 01, 2021, 08:52:43 AM
I'm hoping that the youthfulness will lead to fearlessness, allied with the little bit of swagger that some of those guys have been showing. That'll let them play loose and without pressure and maybe claim a few extra wins than  maybe they would otherwise

All I'm saying is I personally won't really be tying my idea of a successful season to wins and losses. The rotation could be a mess, the bullpen is a question mark...this team could win any number of games and I wouldn't be terribly surprised.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on April 01, 2021, 08:57:43 AM
Well, sure. Those three were just examples. There are lots of guys I'm intrigued by on the big club and in the system.

They were just two more examples, and players in particular that I am intersted in because they have potential to fill spots at the position where the big club has the greatest need.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 01, 2021, 09:25:17 AM

It's important to remember that this is still such a young team. Last year's unexpected success was great but honestly this year I'm really more focused on individual development then needing them to win right away. Seeing Guerrero take a step forward, Pearson be anything close to his potential, the gawd Alejandro Kirk fulfill his destiny as the best catcher in baseball...that's this season for me.

Yeah.  The Jays "made" the playoffs with a record of 32-28. That would be 86 wins in a 162 game season.  That would only get the Jays the second wild card spot twice since 2010.  The 2nd WC spot in the AL is usually over 90 wins and a few times has been as high as 97-98 wins.

If the team progresses offensively with Vlad, a full season of Kirk (hopefully a better offensive season from Janssen) and the rest of the kids...plus obviously Semien and Springer they might be able to make that next jump but the rotation is going to be a huge question mark for this team.

I don't really have a lot of faith in a rebound season from Roark and relying on Ray to be your #2 starter is just not a great setup to expect the Jays to be a top contender. 

Playoffs would be great, but if the team shows internal improvements that should be considered a success this year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on April 01, 2021, 09:27:36 AM
I'm hoping that the youthfulness will lead to fearlessness, allied with the little bit of swagger that some of those guys have been showing. That'll let them play loose and without pressure and maybe claim a few extra wins than  maybe they would otherwise

All I'm saying is I personally won't really be tying my idea of a successful season to wins and losses. The rotation could be a mess, the bullpen is a question mark...this team could win any number of games and I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

Fair.

Don't disagree. Could even end up with a losing season if things go wrong.

But it's nice to be excited, and it's nice to have hope, and it's nice to see a longer term plan in place.

Let me enjoy my opening day optimism. Enough of your realism.  ;D
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 01, 2021, 09:46:26 AM
Let me enjoy my opening day optimism. Enough of your realism.  ;D

Oh by all means be optimistic. If someone thinks this team could win 92 games and easily make the playoffs, I can see how that might happen. There are lots of possibilities here, most of them good. And, of course, as the late, great Yogi Berra said "You never know".
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 01, 2021, 12:09:48 PM
Mets-Nationals game postponed due to COVID
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 01, 2021, 12:14:23 PM

It's important to remember that this is still such a young team. Last year's unexpected success was great but honestly this year I'm really more focused on individual development then needing them to win right away. Seeing Guerrero take a step forward, Pearson be anything close to his potential, the gawd Alejandro Kirk fulfill his destiny as the best catcher in baseball...that's this season for me.
Agreed, thy remind me of the Leafs of last year, not there yet but full of promise.  Leafs added some great vets and look poised to start a 3 or 4 year window (hopefully longer).  Jays added some good pieces but I don't expect a W.S this year.  Next year I believe the window opens for a 3-5 year run. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on April 01, 2021, 12:14:38 PM
Mets-Nationals game postponed due to COVID

Season's off to a great start!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 01, 2021, 01:39:41 PM
Can we get robot umps for the strikezone already....
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on April 01, 2021, 05:19:24 PM
Only another 89 wins to go to hit my target!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 06, 2021, 09:06:39 AM

It's funny, for a while here the conversations was about how terribly the Jays mismanaged the Donaldson thing and were idiots for trading him when they did and how little they got back.

Fastforward a year or two and Cleveland got nothing out of that deal and Merryweather looks like he might be a legit closer.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on April 06, 2021, 09:09:02 AM
It's funny, for a while here the conversations was about how terribly the Jays mismanaged the Donaldson thing and were idiots for trading him when they did and how little they got back.

Fastforward a year or two and Cleveland got nothing out of that deal and Merryweather looks like he might be a legit closer.

Time makes fools of us all.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 06, 2021, 09:12:55 AM
It's funny, for a while here the conversations was about how terribly the Jays mismanaged the Donaldson thing and were idiots for trading him when they did and how little they got back.

Fastforward a year or two and Cleveland got nothing out of that deal and Merryweather looks like he might be a legit closer.

Time makes fools of us all.

Not me. Always right about everything. Past, present and future.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 06, 2021, 10:57:33 AM
Two outings don't make a career but if you are going to have two innings like that I'm going to stand up and pay attention.  Being able to hit 100 while having a nasty offspeed pitch sitting at 79-82 is the kind of stuff that is unhittable if you can locate it and sometimes even when you don't.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on April 06, 2021, 09:23:52 PM
Watching Roark pitch is like playing a video game on rookie mode.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 07, 2021, 11:13:07 AM
Roark the Dork.  He is well past his best before label. 24 million for 2 years of spam in a can.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 07, 2021, 11:20:29 AM
The biggest issue with Roark I found was last year when he was complaining about not being allowed to go deeper into games.  He was bad last year and the few times he got to 3rd time around the order he got lit up.

Roark's career numbers against the AL aren't good either.  Granted Interleague is a small sample size but his nubmers were noticeably worse even before last year. 

He's a guy who doesn't throw hard, doesn't have great movement on his pitches and doesn't really having great accuracy.  I think he's done with the Jays.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 11, 2021, 12:02:48 AM
Man, the Jays are kicking the Angels 14-1 in the 5th.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on April 11, 2021, 01:50:41 PM
15 runs , 14 hits and rowdy tellez still went 0-5. He’s on a hitless tear going 0-21 to start the season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on April 12, 2021, 02:25:05 PM
Guerrero is off to a great start.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on April 12, 2021, 02:47:28 PM
We'll see what Ray looks like...I feel like this is a big deal of a start given the Roark situation.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 12, 2021, 02:58:49 PM
Good Roark is out of the rotation, should be off the team in my estimation.   Bit concerned about Rowdy, I really like the guy and his story, but he has to hit.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 12, 2021, 04:12:17 PM
Obviously you can't ride a guy on an indefinite hitless streak but it seems odd how quickly people turn on him.  He's not an exceptional player by any means but he had a really good season last year.  He had a nice cup of tea in his rookie campaign and then had a very mediocre true rookie season the following year.  His bat is still slightly above average on his career despite an abysmal start to this season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on April 12, 2021, 05:26:47 PM
I’m not really down on him. I just thought it was funny that the team exploded and he’s still o-fer.

He’s ok and seems like a genuinely nice guy, but I feel sometimes he’s just taking up a roster spot.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 12, 2021, 08:41:25 PM
I’m not really down on him. I just thought it was funny that the team exploded and he’s still o-fer.

He’s ok and seems like a genuinely nice guy, but I feel sometimes he’s just taking up a roster spot.
Yer boy Rowdy has a hit.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 13, 2021, 05:45:37 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on April 13, 2021, 06:27:04 PM
I’m not really down on him. I just thought it was funny that the team exploded and he’s still o-fer.

He’s ok and seems like a genuinely nice guy, but I feel sometimes he’s just taking up a roster spot.
Yer boy Rowdy has a hit.

https://youtu.be/roRQ2mNwMMQ
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on April 14, 2021, 12:19:13 PM

Uh oh...
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 14, 2021, 12:31:43 PM
Oh and Julian Merryweather to the 10-day DL with a left oblique strain.

George Springer is also not going with the Jays on their road trip so is going to miss at least 10 more games including today.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 14, 2021, 01:23:51 PM
Oh and Julian Merryweather to the 10-day DL with a left oblique strain.

George Springer is also not going with the Jays on their road trip so is going to miss at least 10 more games including today.
Aren't we having a real rosy start to this season. At least they are hanging in with the record to this point.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 14, 2021, 01:24:56 PM
Wouldn't be great to get our boys back into town and be able to fill up the Dome again.  Can't wait.  However until then, wish they were in Buffalo, they seemed to play well there.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 14, 2021, 01:50:21 PM
I think the plan is for the Jays to move to Buffalo in June when the weather warms up.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: halojoho on April 17, 2021, 01:10:39 PM
cant believe Vlad just turned 22. Must see tv this guy right now.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on April 24, 2021, 11:09:44 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on swapping Bichette and Semien positions?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on April 24, 2021, 12:35:04 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on swapping Bichette and Semien positions?

Gurriel got eaten alive for putting up similar defensive play in the infield.  Granted Bo is hitting so he’s still valuable to the team but he isn’t a great shortstop.  I think they need to swap him out.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on April 24, 2021, 01:36:15 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on swapping Bichette and Semien positions?

And move Vladdy to third.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 25, 2021, 12:50:00 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on swapping Bichette and Semien positions?
It would make more sense for expediency, but Bichette as per management is the shortstop of the future and they are willing to let him work through his mistakes, until he has it down pat.  If this happens remains to be seen but I am sure he will have lots of runway to get there.  I like Espinal a lot at 3rd and the idea of having Biggio as utility man may make more sense than Joe (don't) Panik.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Andy on April 25, 2021, 01:17:34 PM
Bichette is 23 and shortstop is a tough position where young guys often struggle. Give him time; the team isn't really in compete mode for another year+ or so anyway.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gerald The Duck on April 27, 2021, 09:46:49 PM
Vladdy has 3 HRs including a grand slam, 7 RBI so far tonight.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on April 28, 2021, 07:31:04 AM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 28, 2021, 01:11:05 PM
Great for Vladdy and thank God he got himself into peak condition, it is really showing in his performance, not only at the plate but at 1st base as well. His home runs were to all three fields. WOW.

Can't wait for Hernandez and Springer to join the line up and supercharge our offence even further.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on April 29, 2021, 02:54:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPn8qeQfNPM
Vladdy's homers is a pretty satisfying video to watch
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on April 29, 2021, 03:40:15 PM
The difference between Vladdy this season and Vladdy in the previous two seasons is really remarkable.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 29, 2021, 05:09:32 PM
Vlad the Impaler ;)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on April 29, 2021, 06:50:52 PM
The difference between Vladdy this season and Vladdy in the previous two seasons is really remarkable.

We’ve been hearing about him for so long that I tend to think we forget he’s only 22. Most MLB stars don’t really hit their stride until they are 25 or older.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on April 29, 2021, 08:37:14 PM
The difference between Vladdy this season and Vladdy in the previous two seasons is really remarkable.

We’ve been hearing about him for so long that I tend to think we forget he’s only 22. Most MLB stars don’t really hit their stride until they are 25 or older.

Yeah. For the sake of comparison, his dad didn’t become a regular until part way through his age 22 season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on April 30, 2021, 12:32:03 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 30, 2021, 12:34:47 PM

That sucks.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on April 30, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
Wow MLB HoF has higher personal conduct standards than the Supreme Court
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 30, 2021, 01:16:39 PM
I don't know what stage this or these accusations are but have we come completely to a guilty verdict without any presumption of innocence?  If he did it fine he needs to be punished, but not much information for us to make up our minds on.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 30, 2021, 01:17:51 PM
On a brighter note Teoscar is back in the lineup tonight.  Hope Pearson is back soon.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 30, 2021, 01:24:51 PM
I don't know what stage this or these accusations are but have we come completely to a guilty verdict without any presumption of innocence?

The presumption of innocence is for a court room and is a legal principle. It would be ridiculous to ask that of individuals.

More to the point, for MLB to do this means they've looked into the matter and found sufficient cause to take the action they did.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 30, 2021, 01:26:38 PM

Again, this is the conclusion of an investigation.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on April 30, 2021, 01:47:17 PM
I don't know what stage this or these accusations are but have we come completely to a guilty verdict without any presumption of innocence?  If he did it fine he needs to be punished, but not much information for us to make up our minds on.



The link provided had details.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 30, 2021, 01:52:16 PM

Again, this is the conclusion of an investigation.
Thanks for the update and thought they must have sufficient evidence of wrong doing, I just didn't see this in the initial report that I saw.  Sad to see he ruined his legacy this way.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on April 30, 2021, 02:57:08 PM
I don't know what stage this or these accusations are but have we come completely to a guilty verdict without any presumption of innocence?

The presumption of innocence is for a court room and is a legal principle. It would be ridiculous to ask that of individuals.

More to the point, for MLB to do this means they've looked into the matter and found sufficient cause to take the action they did.
I mean you'd think it being an old boys club to some extent it must've really been incriminating for this outcome.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on April 30, 2021, 03:13:29 PM
I mean you'd think it being an old boys club to some extent it must've really been incriminating for this outcome.

Not only that but just for liability reasons you'd think they'd be pretty sure of themselves before announcing it loudly and publicly.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on April 30, 2021, 04:13:19 PM
These rumours/allegations have plagued him for years.

This is from 2009: https://www.cp24.com/roberto-alomar-apparently-settles-sex-lawsuit-1.395677?cache=

Not sure if the current allegations are anything different but when you're hiring people...

 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 30, 2021, 04:48:57 PM


I don't know what stage this or these accusations are but have we come completely to a guilty verdict without any presumption of innocence?  If he did it fine he needs to be punished, but not much information for us to make up our minds on.



The link provided had details.

Well, hurry up and start reading it to him, already.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 01, 2021, 02:34:10 PM
Keptain Kirk launches two, count em, two home runs and bats in 4 RBI,  move over Vladdy, you have a competitor.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 07, 2021, 08:58:31 AM

Not bad.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on May 07, 2021, 01:35:02 PM

If this team can get Pearson and/or Manoah going they'll be real fun to watch.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 07, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
Yah, for some reason I just have a gut feeling that Manoah will be better or at last more durable. Don't know why but I hope they are both Ace.  I am loving watching the Jays, they are a fun team to follow.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on May 11, 2021, 09:31:58 PM
I’m watching the Jays play against Atlanta and I saw a sign scroll across one of those display things in the stadium that’s says ‘masks must be worn at all times’. They show a shot of the crowd and next the no one is wearing a mask.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on May 12, 2021, 09:22:52 PM

Not bad.

2nd start:

6.0IP 1H 0R 2BB 5K
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on May 13, 2021, 03:59:30 PM

Well, I like it when the Blue Jays play the Braves.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on May 13, 2021, 04:00:25 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 13, 2021, 06:16:56 PM
4 runs in the ninth to sweep the Braves. This team is catching fire and without some of its star players.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 14, 2021, 04:41:15 PM

Not bad.

2nd start:

6.0IP 1H 0R 2BB 5K
Montoya was speaking of Manoah today and saying how compose he was to have Ross Atkins in the stands for his pitching performance.  I would say it is less than a week before the big guy arrives to write  his legacy.  I know this might seems a premature overstatement, but the kid is already 24, he's gotta start sometime.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on May 16, 2021, 07:28:49 PM
Invalid Tweet IDI question the wisdom of serving up a change up high on the inner half of the plate when up against Vladdy.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 18, 2021, 10:50:45 PM
Jays up 8-0 and 2 outs from climbing to a half game back of Boston for the division lead.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on May 18, 2021, 11:26:08 PM
Jays up 8-0 and 2 outs from climbing to a half game back of Boston for the division lead.
I didn't realise they were on such a good run. Didn't they start off slow?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 18, 2021, 11:34:30 PM
Jays up 8-0 and 2 outs from climbing to a half game back of Boston for the division lead.
I didn't realise they were on such a good run. Didn't they start off slow?
Well, they were a game over .500 before winning 6 or their last 7 while scoring a ton. Two shutouts in the last three games, too.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on May 19, 2021, 12:21:11 PM
Tony Larussa has certainly been doing things the last 24 hours.

All stemming because a 28 year old rookie hit a 3-0 home run off a position player in a blowout. 

He's now ouright fighting with his players in the media on comments. It's just downright silly.

I also enjoy the "irony" that Tony LaRussa is concerned about the unwritten rules of baseball as a 2 time DUI recipient.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on May 19, 2021, 12:35:44 PM
Tony Larussa has certainly been doing things the last 24 hours.

All stemming because a 28 year old rookie hit a 3-0 home run off a position player in a blowout. 

He's now ouright fighting with his players in the media on comments. It's just downright silly.

I also enjoy the "irony" that Tony LaRussa is concerned about the unwritten rules of baseball as a 2 time DUI recipient.

I'm kind of torn on this. On the one hand I think LaRussa is wrong here specifically, Baseball isn't a game where you can let the clock run out so you do have to take your cuts and if the opposing pitcher(or infielder masquerading as a pitcher) is throwing meatballs you should take your best swings.

But I feel like whenever this issue comes up on twitter or wherever there's this expressing from people my age and younger that all unwritten rules everywhere are stupid and that not taking your foot off the gas when playing an overmatched opponent has nothing to do with good sportsmanship. I'm reminded of that thing from a few years ago when the US Women's Soccer team, the most successful and well funded team in the world, was playing a much smaller and less well funded team and beat them 12-0 or whatever and celebrated each goal like they were overtime winners. When they got criticized on Canadian TV ever so softly it was like "How dare you? How dare you try to stifle expressions of joy! Those other players should have tried harder to stop them!".

I feel like there can be a middle ground where you don't have a red-ass about it but you can also recognize that there is a line where running up the score makes you a jerk.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on May 19, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
9th inning, up by 12, and a 3-0 count? Yeah, probably shouldn't be swinging, but also shouldn't causing this level of outrage.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on May 19, 2021, 02:24:56 PM
Tony Larussa has certainly been doing things the last 24 hours.

All stemming because a 28 year old rookie hit a 3-0 home run off a position player in a blowout. 

He's now ouright fighting with his players in the media on comments. It's just downright silly.

I also enjoy the "irony" that Tony LaRussa is concerned about the unwritten rules of baseball as a 2 time DUI recipient.

Tony respects the unwritten rules. It’s the written rules he takes issue with.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on May 19, 2021, 02:43:39 PM
9th inning, up by 12, and a 3-0 count? Yeah, probably shouldn't be swinging, but also shouldn't causing this level of outrage.

I'm perfectly fine with him swinging.  The Twins didn't walk up to the plate and strike out on 9 pitches in the bottom of the 9th.  If you want to have games stop because a team is up by too much they put a mercy rule and let teams forfeit the end of the game.

To me a guy being on the mound and throwing 49 MPH pitches is more of a silly thing than a guy swinging at it.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on May 19, 2021, 06:53:16 PM
Pillar got a little busted up there with that pitch in the face.

I feel like he should have been a hockey player, he looks good with a double shiner and talking about being there for his teammates.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 19, 2021, 11:48:20 PM

Man, how much longer do we have to wait to see him in the Jays starting rotation?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on May 20, 2021, 06:33:10 AM

Man, how much longer do we have to wait to see him in the Jays starting rotation?

Next week.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on May 20, 2021, 09:42:43 AM
He still needs to work on his offspeed pitch.  He's dominating because of his fastball/slider combination but he struggles to locate his offspeed pitch.  He's going to need that to have sustained success.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on May 20, 2021, 09:55:10 AM
He still needs to work on his offspeed pitch.  He's dominating because of his fastball/slider combination but he struggles to locate his offspeed pitch.  He's going to need that to have sustained success.

Yeah. He’ll definitely struggle at the MLB level if he can’t locate all his pitches. The fastball-slider combo will be enough for him to survive, but not enough for him to fully realize his potential.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on May 20, 2021, 10:27:26 AM
He still needs to work on his offspeed pitch.  He's dominating because of his fastball/slider combination but he struggles to locate his offspeed pitch.  He's going to need that to have sustained success.

Yeah. He’ll definitely struggle at the MLB level if he can’t locate all his pitches. The fastball-slider combo will be enough for him to survive, but not enough for him to fully realize his potential.

Underhand changeup ought to do the trick (anyone remember Rookie of the Year?).
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on May 20, 2021, 01:26:01 PM
I really, really, really like Manoah.  He does have four pitches.  He throws both a 2-seam and 4-seam fastball.  He also has a very above average slider.  His changeup does have movement but he has a hard time getting it to hit his spots right now.  What is going to limit Manoah in the majors right now is that everything he throws right now is fast and he doesn't have a reliable offspeed pitch to mix up against hitters.  He also doesn't have a pitch to break on LHP and that is going to hurt him far more in the majors than any other level.

His slider has some phenomenal late breaking movement. 

This year might not be a good year to throw him to the wolves though as the baseball right now seems to be designed to be pretty favourable to pitchers.  The ball has been nerfed so far.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 21, 2021, 03:43:49 PM
I really, really, really like Manoah.  He does have four pitches.  He throws both a 2-seam and 4-seam fastball.  He also has a very above average slider.  His changeup does have movement but he has a hard time getting it to hit his spots right now.  What is going to limit Manoah in the majors right now is that everything he throws right now is fast and he doesn't have a reliable offspeed pitch to mix up against hitters.  He also doesn't have a pitch to break on LHP and that is going to hurt him far more in the majors than any other level.

His slider has some phenomenal late breaking movement. 

This year might not be a good year to throw him to the wolves though as the baseball right now seems to be designed to be pretty favourable to pitchers.  The ball has been nerfed so far.
The guy is heading towards 24, what are we saving him for?  Guy is a beast and has confidence coming out his ying yang.  And after another bummer performance by Raw Striploin, we need something more
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on May 22, 2021, 05:35:18 PM
Forget his age. He has 35 innings of minor league pitching under his belt. What’s the rush?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on May 23, 2021, 12:36:36 PM
Forget his age. He has 35 innings of minor league pitching under his belt. What’s the rush?

Exactly. He’s barely begun his professional career.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on May 23, 2021, 01:10:37 PM
He's dominating and the Jays are thin in the rotation, I'd give him a shot.

If he can run with it, great.. if not he can go back down, no harm done.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on May 23, 2021, 04:12:38 PM
The bullpen has had a rough week.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on May 23, 2021, 06:34:46 PM
He's dominating and the Jays are thin in the rotation, I'd give him a shot.

If he can run with it, great.. if not he can go back down, no harm done.

You say that but didn’t the Jays basically lose a year with Halladay? I remember he came up early and then somehow messed up his delivery and he had to be ‘rebuilt’ in the minors.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on May 23, 2021, 09:35:55 PM
He's dominating and the Jays are thin in the rotation, I'd give him a shot.

If he can run with it, great.. if not he can go back down, no harm done.

You say that but didn’t the Jays basically lose a year with Halladay? I remember he came up early and then somehow messed up his delivery and he had to be ‘rebuilt’ in the minors.

Halladay was passable in his first full year (1999) but then they had to send him down to AAA halfway through his second full season because he was awful.

Then he started 2001 all the way down in A+. After a few relief appearances at A+,5 starts at AA, and 2 at AAA, he was back in the majors and never looked back. 2000 was a lost year, but I don't know if that was because he was called up early.

Also, I'm not saying let Manoah get lit up for half a year. One start, if it works, give him another, if not go down. Like they did with Pearson.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on May 24, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
Thanks for the breakdown. I didn’t remember exactly how it went down.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 24, 2021, 07:23:59 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 25, 2021, 12:36:32 PM
Hope it works out for Manoah, after all the Pearson hype its refreshing that this guy is up without half the fanfare of poor Nate.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on May 27, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
Not Jays, but I love galaxy brain baseball

Credit to Baez, but really... 1B, dude.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 27, 2021, 01:49:26 PM
Not Jays, but I love galaxy brain baseball

Credit to Baez, but really... 1B, dude.
Especially when there were already 2 outs!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on May 27, 2021, 01:52:40 PM
Just terrible lack of awareness there. If you can't get to him in one or two steps go straight to the bag. That's something that should have been drilled into them when they were kids.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on May 27, 2021, 04:25:03 PM
Manoah walks his first batter on four pitches and then strikes out Odor and Judge. 

The reactions from his Mom are great
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on May 27, 2021, 06:15:54 PM
Tough outing for Monoah. 

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on May 27, 2021, 06:19:54 PM
I mean he couldn’t even get passed the 6th inning
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on May 27, 2021, 06:24:30 PM
I mean he couldn’t even get passed the 6th inning

I didn't know it was only 7. I might have let him finish it.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on May 27, 2021, 06:36:49 PM
I mean he couldn’t even get passed the 6th inning

I didn't know it was only 7. I might have let him finish it.

If the lead was a little bigger, I think he would have gotten the chance.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on May 27, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Well that was impressive. Maybe he’ll be this year’s version of Juan Guzman.

I just wanted to say Juan Guzman.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 27, 2021, 11:26:25 PM
Not Jays, but I love galaxy brain baseball

Credit to Baez, but really... 1B, dude.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 28, 2021, 12:06:32 PM
Tough outing for Monoah.
Ya, he was pretty bad in his first outing..LOL...now if Pearson can get his act together our starting rotation will have improved vastly.  When will Woods Richardson be ready?  Can't wait.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on May 31, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
Raw Striploin acting like a real pitcher after working on some things with Pete Walker, so he gets his real name back for the time being;  Ross Stripling.  Good work Ross.  Now whatever crack was Montoyo was smoking for game 2 of the double header.  For God sake don't let the relievers walk in 5 in a row anymore,

Ross could have finished out Game 1 probably and saved Dolis or Romano to close out Game 2. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 10, 2021, 11:15:54 AM

Austin Martin, in his first taste of pro ball at AA, is slashing .278/.408/.412 while splitting time between SS and CF.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 12, 2021, 04:31:32 PM

Vladito is a monster.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: AtomicMapleLeaf on June 12, 2021, 05:48:22 PM

Vladito is a monster.

Matz is going good today
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on June 12, 2021, 07:04:14 PM
Alright let’s go
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on June 12, 2021, 10:37:58 PM

Vladito is a monster.

Yes, he is.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on June 13, 2021, 10:57:55 AM

Vladito is a monster.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 13, 2021, 02:57:27 PM

One of the neat things about being a Jays fan right now is you occasionally get to be all like "Oh yeah, they also have a 23 year old Shortstop on pace for 35 homers" or whatever it is.

They need to fix the Bullpen and need one more high level starter but this line-up when Springer and Kirk get back, and then maybe if Moreno or Martin can get call ups? Woof.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 13, 2021, 03:25:37 PM
Oh my they are destroying Boston today
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on June 13, 2021, 04:12:09 PM
Oh my they are destroying Boston today

Ouch.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 13, 2021, 09:07:56 PM
Vladito is a monster.

That he is.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on June 14, 2021, 05:23:17 AM
Oh my they are destroying Boston today

Ouch.

About 11 of those 13 HRs were monsters too. They weren't just dropping over the wall
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on June 14, 2021, 02:15:20 PM
How are we feeling about Pearson at this point...seemed to have a decent game the other day?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 14, 2021, 02:30:55 PM
How are we feeling about Pearson at this point...seemed to have a decent game the other day?

His last start was certainly encouraging, but I think he's still at the very least a few weeks away from serious consideration for a call up. He needs to string together a few quality outings, go longer than 5 innings (which he hasn't done since August 2019), etc. The potential is still there, but at this point, with all the injury issues, the results need to show consistently before he comes back to the Show.

I would probably leave him in AAA until after the ASG, and see where things are after that.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 14, 2021, 02:51:48 PM
How are we feeling about Pearson at this point...seemed to have a decent game the other day?

I'd leave him down for a while.  I think part of the problem is mental more so than ability.  His stuff is good enough for the Majors but his control seems to leave him. I think he needs more time to get comfortable at trusting his pitches.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 14, 2021, 03:20:19 PM
Jays have also had a difficult schedule (to go along with not having a permanent home) so far. Only 7 games against the bottom-feeders of the league. No games against Baltimore, Detroit, Minnesota, Seattle, etc. As much as their rotation and bullpen have been an issue, there haven't been a ton of games where the pitching staff didn't get the team an opportunity to win. They have a stretch of softer competition coming up leading into the All Star break, and I'd use that as an opportunity to see if they can get some of the guys on the MLB roster their confidence back - with shorter leashes, obviously. Gotta see if they can right the ship before bringing in younger guys or making significant deals.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on June 14, 2021, 03:23:47 PM
Jays have also had a difficult schedule (to go along with not having a permanent home) so far. Only 7 games against the bottom-feeders of the league. No games against Baltimore, Detroit, Minnesota, Seattle, etc. As much as their rotation and bullpen have been an issue, there haven't been a ton of games where the pitching staff didn't get the team an opportunity to win. They have a stretch of softer competition coming up leading into the All Star break, and I'd use that as an opportunity to see if they can get some of the guys on the MLB roster their confidence back - with shorter leashes, obviously. Gotta see if they can right the ship before bringing in younger guys or making significant deals.

OK Kyle. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 14, 2021, 03:45:07 PM

I wonder if, given the current needs of the team, you maybe don't consider calling Pearson up and using him out of the pen to start with.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on June 14, 2021, 04:00:48 PM

I wonder if, given the current needs of the team, you maybe don't consider calling Pearson up and using him out of the pen to start with.

Yeah, they did that with Sanchez in 2015 and he joined the roration in 2016.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 14, 2021, 04:07:47 PM
I wonder if, given the current needs of the team, you maybe don't consider calling Pearson up and using him out of the pen to start with.

If they don't right themselves, then maybe, yeah. They're trying to avoid yo-yoing him in and out the rotation and bullpen, which is probably for the best, but if the pen keeps potentially costing them Ws, they probably need to reconsider.

Right now, the obvious concern is making sure he gets back to full health before anything else.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 14, 2021, 10:05:21 PM

This team could really be something if they figure out the bullpen.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 15, 2021, 09:19:55 AM

This team could really be something if they figure out the bullpen.

I'm having a hard time seeing how they figure it out.  Dolis has really turned into a pumpkin this year after a phenomenal 20 innings last year.  I'm not banking on Merryweather pitching for the Jays again this year.  He's just way too injury prone and doesn't appear close to coming back. 

Getting Borucki/Murphy/Hatch back will be nice but they really don't transform the pen into elite status. 

The offense is certainly good enough to contend...and that's without Springer who is supposed to go out start  his rehab assignment tonight.

I just don't know if they can acquire enough pitching to fix the holes in the rotation/bullpen without giving up a lot of assets.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 15, 2021, 09:32:16 AM
I'm having a hard time seeing how they figure it out.  Dolis has really turned into a pumpkin this year after a phenomenal 20 innings last year.  I'm not banking on Merryweather pitching for the Jays again this year.  He's just way too injury prone and doesn't appear close to coming back. 

Getting Borucki/Murphy/Hatch back will be nice but they really don't transform the pen into elite status. 

The offense is certainly good enough to contend...and that's without Springer who is supposed to go out start  his rehab assignment tonight.

I just don't know if they can acquire enough pitching to fix the holes in the rotation/bullpen without giving up a lot of assets.

They don't really need to get the bullpen to the elite level (as nice as that would be), and it might not actually take that much for them to get to pretty good. They're already basically average for the AL. What they need to put them over is a reliable closer and setup guy. They don't even need to be great, just reliable.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 15, 2021, 09:39:58 AM
I'm having a hard time seeing how they figure it out.  Dolis has really turned into a pumpkin this year after a phenomenal 20 innings last year.  I'm not banking on Merryweather pitching for the Jays again this year.  He's just way too injury prone and doesn't appear close to coming back. 

Getting Borucki/Murphy/Hatch back will be nice but they really don't transform the pen into elite status. 

Edit: Didn't see busta wrote the same thing, just better.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 15, 2021, 10:22:59 AM
I'm having a hard time seeing how they figure it out.  Dolis has really turned into a pumpkin this year after a phenomenal 20 innings last year.  I'm not banking on Merryweather pitching for the Jays again this year.  He's just way too injury prone and doesn't appear close to coming back. 

Getting Borucki/Murphy/Hatch back will be nice but they really don't transform the pen into elite status. 

The offense is certainly good enough to contend...and that's without Springer who is supposed to go out start  his rehab assignment tonight.

I just don't know if they can acquire enough pitching to fix the holes in the rotation/bullpen without giving up a lot of assets.

They don't really need to get the bullpen to the elite level (as nice as that would be), and it might not actually take that much for them to get to pretty good. They're already basically average for the AL. What they need to put them over is a reliable closer and setup guy. They don't even need to be great, just reliable.

In fairness I'm putting more emphasis on the injury plagued more recent stretch but since May 1st they are one of the bottom 5 bullpens in the league.  I guess I'm just a little concerned that even with some guys coming back that the bullpen is cratering out more than adjusting to mediocre. It's not like they have been incredibly unlucky over this stretch.  Their BaBIP is .287
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 15, 2021, 10:59:10 AM
In fairness I'm putting more emphasis on the injury plagued more recent stretch but since May 1st they are one of the bottom 5 bullpens in the league.  I guess I'm just a little concerned that even with some guys coming back that the bullpen is cratering out more than adjusting to mediocre. It's not like they have been incredibly unlucky over this stretch.  Their BaBIP is .287

Even in that stretch, numbers for the bullpen have been very middle of the pack overall. They've had some really terrible games that have impacted how they're perceived, but, overall, they've been, well, average. It's the guys they've had to rely on from the 8th inning on where there's been trouble - especially in the 9th and extras. Way too many walks from the back end of the pen.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 15, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Eesh bullpen gets another injury and blows another game
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on June 16, 2021, 12:48:38 PM
To bad Dolis and Chatworth got injured, as before they did they were unbeatable, since they came back they are not the same.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 16, 2021, 09:08:07 PM
Cursed.  Dolis comes in and walks a guy on four pitches and is injured.   
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 18, 2021, 07:05:05 AM
Injuries are up in baseball by a lot but the Jays pitching woes:

Carl Edwards Jr - 60-Day DL (Oblique)
Rafael Dolis - 10-Day DL (Finger....except the team said his entire hand went numb and he couldn't feel the ball)
Julian Merryweather - 60-Day DL (Oblique)
Stephen Matz - COVID-19
AJ Cole - 60-Day DL (Neck Tightness)
Kirby Yates - 60-Day DL (Tommy John Surgery)
David Phelps - 60-Day DL (Right Lat Surgery)
Tommy Milone - 60-Day DL (Left shoulder inflammation)
Anthony Kay - 10-Day DL (Blister)
Travis Bergen - 10-Day DL (Forearm strain)
Ryan Borucki - 10-Day DL (Forearm strain)
Thomas Hatch - 60-Day DL (Elbow Impingement)
Patrick Murphy - 60-Day DL (AC Sprain)

They even got Montoyo to swear in a post-game press conference.

They are 21-26 against teams .500 or better
They are 12-16 against the AL East
They are 11-2 in Interleague play (playing Miami/Atlanta/Washington)
8.5 games back of the division
6.5 games back of the 2nd wildcard
They are one of 13 teams with a positive run differential

Springer is about to come back but they need pitching help yesterday. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on June 18, 2021, 06:11:58 PM
Ya its a shit show for our bullpen, without relief in site.  Long or short.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on June 19, 2021, 06:26:38 PM
The legend grows daily
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 19, 2021, 07:27:20 PM

6 runs in the 9th for a come from behind win. Vladdy knocks in the winning run by pulling a 95mph fastball on the outside corner into the left field gap. What a monster.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 22, 2021, 08:30:28 AM
Vlad declined to participate in the home run derby.  Too bad as it would have been fun to see him mash in Coors but I get it.  He lost a home run derby where he hit 91 home runs to a guy who hit 57.  That has to be exhausting on your arms
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2021, 10:20:36 AM

It's unlikely that he makes the All-Star team but if he did, it'd be fun to see Bichette in there in his place. His swings from the heels could produce some big air in Colorado.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on June 22, 2021, 03:15:04 PM
Springer makes his return tonight.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on June 22, 2021, 05:11:23 PM
I hope he has a Springer in his step ;)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on June 23, 2021, 08:33:01 AM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 23, 2021, 10:07:55 AM

Whatever changes he made to his mechanics have been working out quite well.

In his last 6 appearances (5 starts and a 7 inning "relief" appearance after a disaster of an opener by Thornton), 35.1 innings, 2.29 ERA, .171/.237/.530, .202 BAbip, 36 K, 9 BB...If he can maintain even like 75% of the quality of his performances lately, he'll be an excellent middle of the rotation arm.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on June 23, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Manoah suspended 5 games(basically 1 start) for throwing at O's Franco
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/mlb-alek-manoah-suspended-toronto-blue-jays-1.6075972#:~:text=Major%20League%20Baseball%20has%20suspended,throwing%20at%20Baltimore's%20Maikel%20Franco.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 25, 2021, 10:58:20 PM
Springer hits a home run, Vlad hits another one and the bullpen blows a 5-1 lead late including walking in the winning run.    This bullpen is truly horrendous but it’s another game where Montoyo brought in a guy with 2 career innings pitches with runners on 1st and 3rd in the 8th instead of going to Romano. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on June 26, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
Springer hits a home run, Vlad hits another one and the bullpen blows a 5-1 lead late including walking in the winning run.    This bullpen is truly horrendous but it’s another game where Montoyo brought in a guy with 2 career innings pitches with runners on 1st and 3rd in the 8th instead of going to Romano.
I like Charlie, but he again gave Chatsworth to much rope, brought in X Guy instead of Romano.  He literally tossed the game away.  There are some guys at Triple A that should be given an opportunity until Dolis and Merryweather can come back.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 26, 2021, 05:12:10 PM
Vladito is a monster.

That he is.

Just wanted to agree with this again.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 26, 2021, 06:48:51 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on June 29, 2021, 10:20:14 AM

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 29, 2021, 10:28:16 AM
Cimber is having a good year.  Dickerson is a 5th outfielder who can't stay healthy but is also a Left handed bat that the bench could really use.  Panik is replaceable with Espinal.  Will need to see what prospect we gave up to make this work as Dickerson seems like a salary dump for the Marlins so I doubt its a good one we are giving up.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 29, 2021, 11:06:44 AM

Cimber seems like a reasonable middle of the bullpen add, and Dickerson, when he's healthy, can be a valuable bat. Jays also give up basically nothing - Panik is redundant and the minor league arm, Andrew McInvale, seems like a mediocre bullpen prospect who doesn't seem likely to become a fulltime MLB arm.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 30, 2021, 09:27:11 AM
Vlad Jr with runners on base - .388 AVG .503 OBP .777 SLG 1.280 OPS
Vlad Jr with RISP - .423 AVG .543 OBP .859 SLG 1.403 OPS

Vlad Jr with runners on base/2 outs - .383 AVG .491 OBP .830 SLG 1.321 OPS
Vlad Jr with RISP/2 outs - .379 AVG .486 OBP .862 SLG 1.348 OPS

Why are people still pitching to this guy?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 30, 2021, 09:56:18 AM
Vlad Jr with runners on base - .388 AVG .503 OBP .777 SLG 1.280 OPS
Vlad Jr with RISP - .423 AVG .543 OBP .859 SLG 1.403 OPS

Vlad Jr with runners on base/2 outs - .383 AVG .491 OBP .830 SLG 1.321 OPS
Vlad Jr with RISP/2 outs - .379 AVG .486 OBP .862 SLG 1.348 OPS

Why are people still pitching to this guy?

Because, like with his father, it doesn't matter that much? Anything he can reach, he can hit hard.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on June 30, 2021, 10:10:12 AM

At least some of the credit goes to Teoscar, Grich and Bichette and Semien in front of him. It's a lot harder to pitch around guys if there are good hitters behind him and guys getting on base in front of him.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on June 30, 2021, 10:17:59 AM
Obviously Springer hasn't caught fire yet but that will happen.

Lourdes Gurriel Jr .293/.322/.512/.832 in June.  He's not exploding offensively but his numbers have been getting better each month since the start of the season.  He has been hitting 8th in the lineup

Cavan Biggio .288/.397/.538/.935 in June since coming back from injury.

The offensive depth on this team is absurd.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on June 30, 2021, 10:28:53 AM
Obviously Springer hasn't caught fire yet but that will happen.

Lourdes Gurriel Jr .293/.322/.512/.832 in June.  He's not exploding offensively but his numbers have been getting better each month since the start of the season.  He has been hitting 8th in the lineup

Cavan Biggio .288/.397/.538/.935 in June since coming back from injury.

The offensive depth on this team is absurd.

Yeah. No real soft spots in the lineup. Even McGuire is hitting well.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on June 30, 2021, 05:51:07 PM
Obviously Springer hasn't caught fire yet but that will happen.

Lourdes Gurriel Jr .293/.322/.512/.832 in June.  He's not exploding offensively but his numbers have been getting better each month since the start of the season.  He has been hitting 8th in the lineup

Cavan Biggio .288/.397/.538/.935 in June since coming back from injury.

The offensive depth on this team is absurd.

Yeah. No real soft spots in the lineup. Even McGuire is hitting well.
It really helped when he learned to choke up on it ;)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 05, 2021, 06:05:43 PM

In what I think is kind of a cool decision, MLB is holding their draft over the All-Star Weekend. The Jays this year pick 19th in the first round but lost their 2nd round pick because of signing Springer.

If anyone wants to familiarize themselves with the prospects to watch in this year's draft(including the son of former Jay Al Leiter) here's a mock draft:

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mock-draft-june-30-2021 (https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mock-draft-june-30-2021)

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 06, 2021, 04:49:54 PM

Another bullpen arm.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on July 06, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Good trade, Rowdy was going nowhere with the Jays and we got to live bodies who seem to be able to throw a baseball.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 07, 2021, 09:48:52 AM
Yep...like the trade.

Another loss against a team they should beat last night.  Another bad outing from Trent Thornton.  It was a 4-1 game...I have absolutely no idea why we are putting in a guy with an ERA of 6.98 in his last 15 appearances (ERA of 9 in his last 7 appearances) in a game that was still winnable (Jays lost 7-5).
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on July 07, 2021, 10:56:17 AM
Thornton needs to go to AAA to find himself again. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 07, 2021, 11:29:53 AM
One thing I will say about the Jays is they are not a good offensive team in late sitatuations.

7th inning or later and close (within 3 runs, tied or leading by 1 run) the Jays hitting splits are: .219/.291/.343/.634

That's the 4th worst OBP and 8th worst OPS in baseball.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on July 08, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
Thornton needs to go to AAA to find himself again.
I said it and it happened the same day. LOL
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 11, 2021, 09:20:31 PM

The Jays go after another high ceiling pick by taking Gunnar Hoglund with the 19th pick. By all accounts would have been a top 10 pick if he didn't hurt his arm and need Tommy John surgery this year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on July 12, 2021, 11:22:49 AM
The Jays go after another high ceiling pick by taking Gunnar Hoglund with the 19th pick. By all accounts would have been a top 10 pick if he didn't hurt his arm and need Tommy John surgery this year.

With the farm system in pretty good shape based on most evaluations of I've read, glad they took the opportunity to swing for the fences rather than opting for a safer pick.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 12, 2021, 11:47:31 AM
The Jays go after another high ceiling pick by taking Gunnar Hoglund with the 19th pick. By all accounts would have been a top 10 pick if he didn't hurt his arm and need Tommy John surgery this year.

With the farm system in pretty good shape based on most evaluations of I've read, glad they took the opportunity to swing for the fences rather than opting for a safer pick.

It’s a 10/10 name and yeah high reward pick.  Tommy John doesn’t mean much anymore.  A lot of guys end up getting it and sometimes even come back better after the surgery
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 12, 2021, 12:26:12 PM
The Jays go after another high ceiling pick by taking Gunnar Hoglund with the 19th pick. By all accounts would have been a top 10 pick if he didn't hurt his arm and need Tommy John surgery this year.

With the farm system in pretty good shape based on most evaluations of I've read, glad they took the opportunity to swing for the fences rather than opting for a safer pick.

I think taking the best college arm available was always the smart move given what the system is lacking and I'm with you in that they need to be aiming high and try to develop some front of the rotation guys.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 12, 2021, 12:44:49 PM
I hope they can grab an outfield prospect or two with some upside.  That's probably the other place the organization is lacking in depth.  Auston Martin might still end up in CF instead of the infield but they really don't have any tantilizing OF prospects.

Focus on drafting BPA but I'd like to see them bolster their depth there this draft.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 12, 2021, 12:48:58 PM
I hope they can grab an outfield prospect or two with some upside.  That's probably the other place the organization is lacking in depth.  Auston Martin might still end up in CF instead of the infield but they really don't have any tantilizing OF prospects.

Focus on drafting BPA but I'd like to see them bolster their depth there this draft.

They don't pick again until 91 unfortunately but I agree that it's an area to look at both here and in signing international guys.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 12, 2021, 06:54:24 PM

Well, through the first 10 rounds of the draft the Jays have taken 8 pitchers and just one position player. Of the 8 pitchers, 6 are college pitchers, one is a junior college pitcher and they took one high school pitcher.

In the 7th round they took an outfielder, so I guess LK got something.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on July 12, 2021, 08:55:28 PM

Well, through the first 10 rounds of the draft the Jays have taken 8 pitchers and just one position player. Of the 8 pitchers, 6 are college pitchers, one is a junior college pitcher and they took one high school pitcher.

In the 7th round they took an outfielder, so I guess LK got something.
I know nothing of draft strategy in the MLB. Is this good or bad?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 12, 2021, 09:12:16 PM

Well, through the first 10 rounds of the draft the Jays have taken 8 pitchers and just one position player. Of the 8 pitchers, 6 are college pitchers, one is a junior college pitcher and they took one high school pitcher.

In the 7th round they took an outfielder, so I guess LK got something.
I know nothing of draft strategy in the MLB. Is this good or bad?

It's probably similar to drafting 5 goalies in an NHL draft.  Which is better than walking to the podium and saying "decline".
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on July 12, 2021, 10:13:44 PM
It's probably similar to drafting 5 goalies in an NHL draft.  Which is better than walking to the podium and saying "decline".

That doesn’t really track for me. When it comes to the MLB draft, there aren’t great parallels to other leagues. The development cycle is quite a bit longer. Even the #1 overall picks usually take a couple seasons before they reach the show.

But, really, it comes down to this - teams always need pitching. Pitchers make up half of your roster. Pitching prospects are trade currency, and teams are much more willing to take a flier on long shot pitching prospect than a long shot bat. Unless you’re confident you’re getting a position player who has a good chance at being a full-time big leaguer - not necessarily an every day player, but at least someone who can provide value off the bench - you’re better off taking a pitcher.

College pitchers tend to be a little more easy to project and are more likely to approach their ceiling, whereas high school pitchers can often display a higher ceiling, but they tend to come with greater risk. You need a good balance of both in the system.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 12, 2021, 10:25:14 PM

Well, through the first 10 rounds of the draft the Jays have taken 8 pitchers and just one position player. Of the 8 pitchers, 6 are college pitchers, one is a junior college pitcher and they took one high school pitcher.

In the 7th round they took an outfielder, so I guess LK got something.
I know nothing of draft strategy in the MLB. Is this good or bad?

It's probably similar to drafting 5 goalies in an NHL draft.  Which is better than walking to the podium and saying "decline".

It's probably more like drafting 5 centres in a NHL draft. For a team that has a Vezina winning goalie who's only 24 and the best young group of defensemen in the game.

The Jays right now are loaded with good, young, controllable position players. Their best prospects are probably also position players. Their pitching staff is a bit of a mess right now. Going pitching heavy probably makes sense in the draft. To this extent? No way to know but it's important to keep in mind that teams have other ways of adding prospects like signing international players.

Could they have bet on some high upside high school bats? Maybe but realistically from where they're drafting nobody is going to have a ton of upside or, if they do, they'll probably choose to go to college instead of sign and the pick would just roll over.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 13, 2021, 09:46:01 AM

Well, I'm rooting for this kid already.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 13, 2021, 10:57:15 AM

Well, I'm rooting for this kid already.

The video probably suggested this, but he said he's signing.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2021, 11:03:47 AM

Well, I'm rooting for this kid already.

The video probably suggested this, but he said he's signing.

I haven't followed baseball much for the past 27 years.  Are the Jays viewed as the Edmonton Oilers of MLB?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 13, 2021, 11:06:10 AM
I haven't followed baseball much for the past 27 years.  Are the Jays viewed as the Edmonton Oilers of MLB?

No, they signed the top Free Agent available before this season and the number 2 Free Agent pitcher before last season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 13, 2021, 11:08:40 AM
I haven't followed baseball much for the past 27 years.  Are the Jays viewed as the Edmonton Oilers of MLB?

The question of whether or not a high school player signs with the team who drafted them is less about the team and more about whether or not they think by attending college and re-entering the draft  later they can improve their draft position and get a bigger signing bonus.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 13, 2021, 12:19:09 PM


Vladdy is getting the majority of the hype and it's well deserved but Bo, who just turned 23, is an insanely good young player.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 13, 2021, 07:59:51 PM


Vladdy is getting the majority of the hype and it's well deserved but Bo, who just turned 23, is an insanely good young player.

If he could cut out a chunk of the errors, he'd be fantastic.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 13, 2021, 10:05:56 PM


Vladdy is getting the majority of the hype and it's well deserved but Bo, who just turned 23, is an insanely good young player.

If he could cut out a chunk of the errors, he'd be fantastic.

For what it's worth, Baseball Reference has him as being at 1.1 fielding WAR for those 162 games so hes still adding legit value defensively.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 14, 2021, 10:55:14 AM


Vladdy is getting the majority of the hype and it's well deserved but Bo, who just turned 23, is an insanely good young player.

If he could cut out a chunk of the errors, he'd be fantastic.

For what it's worth, Baseball Reference has him as being at 1.1 fielding WAR for those 162 games so hes still adding legit value defensively.

Guerrero Jr is listed as having a -0.7 at 1B.  Maybe its just the eye test but that seems way worse than what I have seen out of him there this year.  Definitely makes the odd mistake but he seems like he's been pulling a lot of throws out of the dirt.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on July 14, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Guerrero Jr is listed as having a -0.7 at 1B.  Maybe its just the eye test but that seems way worse than what I have seen out of him there this year.  Definitely makes the odd mistake but he seems like he's been pulling a lot of throws out of the dirt.

-0.7 seems to be a fairly average mark for a 1B. Even the guys that are considered among the best defensive 1B in the game only have defensive WARs of around 0.3 or so.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 14, 2021, 12:28:18 PM
Guerrero Jr is listed as having a -0.7 at 1B.  Maybe its just the eye test but that seems way worse than what I have seen out of him there this year.  Definitely makes the odd mistake but he seems like he's been pulling a lot of throws out of the dirt.

-0.7 seems to be a fairly average mark for a 1B. Even the guys that are considered among the best defensive 1B in the game only have defensive WARs of around 0.3 or so.

Yeah, in fairness I really hadn't been looking at him in comparison to other players.  The defensive metrics at 1B seen odd.  I know 1B isn't where you tend to stick your best defensive players but the defensive metrics feel like they should be tied to comparing you relative to other players at your position rather than general zone efficiency.

Only 6 players have a positive Defensive Runs Saved metric at 1B.  Only 5 players have a UZR of zero or better.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 14, 2021, 12:52:28 PM

It's tough to add a ton of value at 1st. It's pretty much all going to be based on the range you show so if you don't have a lot of difficult balls to play, you cant get graded as such. With a rotation heavy on LHP the Jays will face more right-handed hitters than most teams and so you'll get fewer sharply hit balls to first.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 14, 2021, 02:20:51 PM
On fangraphs only 1 qualified 1st baseman has a positive defensive contribution this year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on July 14, 2021, 06:40:02 PM
Breaking news: TFC will play at BMO Field on Saturday.  If so, why aren't the Jays coming home?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 14, 2021, 07:24:47 PM
Breaking news: TFC will play at BMO Field on Saturday.  If so, why aren't the Jays coming home?

1. It doesn't look like that's quite as done a deal as MLS suggests https://www.sportsnet.ca/mls/article/federal-government-still-reviewing-request-tfc-cf-montreal-play-canada/ (https://www.sportsnet.ca/mls/article/federal-government-still-reviewing-request-tfc-cf-montreal-play-canada/)

2. It looks like MLS agreed that only vaccinated players would go(or at least that unvaccinated players would be subject to quarantine which makes it pointless for them to go) and it's doubtful MLB would do the same, or haven't yet at least.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on July 14, 2021, 10:35:11 PM
Safe to say that Vlad Jr. is (easily) the best athlete in the city right now?  And without giving it much thought, could arguably become the greatest athlete this city has ever had?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on July 14, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Safe to say that Vlad Jr. is (easily) the best athlete in the city right now?  And without giving it much thought, could arguably become the greatest athlete this city has ever had?
In his respective sport? Yeah maybe. I do think Matthews scoring 41 in 52 is pretty wild though.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 15, 2021, 07:18:23 AM
Safe to say that Vlad Jr. is (easily) the best athlete in the city right now?  And without giving it much thought, could arguably become the greatest athlete this city has ever had?

I don't know. If the season ended today my guess would be Vlad would finish second in MVP voting to Ohtani. Matthews finished second in MVP voting to McDavid. I'm really not sure how you'd determine who was the better athlete.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 15, 2021, 08:20:49 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on July 15, 2021, 10:02:51 PM
That seems really specific
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 15, 2021, 10:16:58 PM
That seems really specific

It is and, to be sure, there are guys who have had better first 162 games but it's a pretty good picture of how complete an offensive he is at such a young age and how rare that is because while it's a lot of specific levels, they're all baselines for really good performance in that category. Nobody would argue with 30 HR being a certain standard of power hitting or 20 steals being the same for baserunning or a .300 average for contact hitting and on and on.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on July 16, 2021, 11:20:58 AM
That seems really specific

It is and, to be sure, there are guys who have had better first 162 games but it's a pretty good picture of how complete an offensive he is at such a young age and how rare that is because while it's a lot of specific levels, they're all baselines for really good performance in that category. Nobody would argue with 30 HR being a certain standard of power hitting or 20 steals being the same for baserunning or a .300 average for contact hitting and on and on.

Thanks! That helped put things into context for me. I like baseball but don't have the stats in my head apart from .300 average being good  ;D
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 16, 2021, 12:30:28 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 16, 2021, 04:53:09 PM

That's good. I don't know if they took any guys in the lower rounds who they'll need extra bonus money to sign but it's nice to have in the holster regardless.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 16, 2021, 06:22:25 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 16, 2021, 09:44:50 PM

Sad to see that all the goofing around at the All-Star game has really disrupted Vladdy's game.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 18, 2021, 06:28:57 AM

Sad to see that all the goofing around at the All-Star game has really disrupted Vladdy's game.

The bat speed is incredible. That 2nd homer yesterday was impressive.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 18, 2021, 08:17:18 AM
I’m honestly more impressed with his eye.  It’s so rare that you see him truly lost on a swing.  Obvious he strikes out but it isn’t very often that you see him completely fooled on a pitch. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 18, 2021, 08:31:39 AM
I’m honestly more impressed with his eye.  It’s so rare that you see him truly lost on a swing.  Obvious he strikes out but it isn’t very often that you see him completely fooled on a pitch.

His plan at the plate is also quite impressive. He's not just "swinging for the fence". He knows the situations. He knows to choke up and shorten his swing when he has two strikes.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 19, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
This is big two weeks leading up to the July 30th trade deadline. 7 games vs the Red Sox between now and then.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 19, 2021, 06:05:29 PM


So the Jays did go overslot on their high school pick. Hopefully it's a good gamble.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 19, 2021, 10:46:39 PM
Another loss to a top team.  The Jays have done well against sub .500 teams but struggle against better opponents.  Another tough start from Stripling.  Hopefully they can get a starter before the deadline as he would be much better out of the pen as long reliever

Stripling giving a bit of a good post game press conference talking about how leaving his family behind to go to Toronto was affecting him.  It’s a young club so not a lot of families but it does have an effect as they are about to be separated after this series
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 29, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 29, 2021, 11:54:41 AM

Might be too little too late at this point but that's a solid move.  Hand can fit in as another arm in the 7th/8th inning slot.  Doesn't have a lot of swing and miss stuff but he can get outs.

Adams doesn't have a future with the team between Jansen, Kirk and Gabriel Moreno having a meteoric rise through the prospect rankings (.373/.441/.651/1.092 stat line in AA this year AND he's good defensively throws out 44% of base runners)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on July 29, 2021, 02:17:59 PM
Yup. Good value for the Jays there. Adams doesn’t have a full time role with the team, and might not even be a full time MLB player.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 30, 2021, 12:35:48 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 30, 2021, 12:37:59 PM
Big package, Martin and Woods-Richardson
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on July 30, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Big package, Martin and Woods-Richardson
Is this deal worth it?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 30, 2021, 12:50:38 PM
Big package, Martin and Woods-Richardson
Is this deal worth it?

I think it's too much.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on July 30, 2021, 12:52:27 PM
That's all your eggs in one trade.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gerald The Duck on July 30, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
It's definitely a big price tag, but the key for me is that Berrios is signed through 2022. So this already strengthens the rotation from day 1 of next season and worst case some assets are recouped at next year's deadline.

I don't think that a non-rental pitcher of Berrios' calibre could be acquired for anything significantly cheaper.

From what I've been reading the Jays are still deep down the middle as well.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on July 30, 2021, 01:11:32 PM
That's all your eggs in one trade.

They still have plenty of eggs, but these are two valuable prospects.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 30, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
He's a good pitcher.  It's a big improvement to the rotation but that cost....man.  Not great.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on July 30, 2021, 01:13:10 PM
Raptors and Jays really trying to help the Leafs out the last few days.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on July 30, 2021, 01:19:09 PM
Rogers maybe getting impatient? 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on July 30, 2021, 01:55:17 PM
Big price to pay, but Berríos really does solidify the rotation
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on July 30, 2021, 03:33:28 PM
Big price to pay, but Berríos really does solidify the rotation

I think many of us might be a little gun shy given the Leafs' brutal trade deadline acquisitions over the past couple of years.

I hope it works, they're still 4.5 games out of a wildcard spot.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on July 30, 2021, 03:43:52 PM
Big price to pay, but Berríos really does solidify the rotation

I think many of us might be a little gun shy given the Leafs' brutal trade deadline acquisitions over the past couple of years.

I hope it works, they're still 4.5 games out of a wildcard spot.

That’s fair. At least Berrios isn’t a pure rental. He’s under team control for another season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on July 30, 2021, 05:04:51 PM
Big package, Martin and Woods-Richardson
Is this deal worth it?
Way to much, Jays are not in win now mode, they are entering their zone next year. I wanted to see both the players on the Jays.

I think it's too much.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on July 30, 2021, 06:47:32 PM
The bullpen is going to be interesting in another week or so.

Cimber and Richards.   They added Soria today and Hand yesterday.  John Axford is pitching extremely well in AAA.  Nate Pearson is close to coming back and will pitch out of the pen for the rest of the year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 30, 2021, 10:28:31 PM

Nice way to end a game!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on July 31, 2021, 04:38:41 PM
I think my heart just melted:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/bo-bichette-toronto-blue-jays-mlb-baseball
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on August 01, 2021, 10:01:16 AM
I think my heart just melted:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/bo-bichette-toronto-blue-jays-mlb-baseball
Wow, well worth the read, I teared up pretty good. When Bo is finished his baseball career he has a future as a writer.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on August 01, 2021, 11:38:51 AM
I think my heart just melted:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/bo-bichette-toronto-blue-jays-mlb-baseball
Wow, well worth the read, I teared up pretty good. When Bo is finished his baseball career he has a future as a writer.
With articles on The Players' Tribune, just because a player is listed as the author doesn't automatically mean he or she solely wrote it. I believe the majority of these articles are ghost-written for the player.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on August 01, 2021, 01:01:28 PM

I would imagine it's almost 100% certain that Bo wouldn't have sat down and typed that out. Any modern sports agency will have PR people who would have worked with him on key points, then had someone actually write the thing.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on August 01, 2021, 01:27:22 PM
:(

way to burst my bubble guys.......
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on August 01, 2021, 01:34:20 PM
:(

way to burst my bubble guys.......

Sorry but I'm sure the sentiments came from Bo.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 02, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
Berrios looked pretty good for a guy who got into town last night and was originally supposed to pitch on Friday for Minnesota. 

3-game sweep of the Royals who had won 8 of 9 coming into the series.  Vlad Jr sat for the first time in a season (had played 161 consecutive games prior that that).

Right now the second wildcard is on pace for 91 wins.  For the Jays to match that they would have to go 37-23 to finish the season (.616 winning percentage).   Right how there is only one team in baseball playing at that pace for the season.

Going to be tough but should be a fun stretch run.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on August 02, 2021, 09:51:09 AM
:(

way to burst my bubble guys.......
It's the sentiment that counts.  Great ghost writer.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on August 12, 2021, 08:45:36 AM
Alek Manoah has been fantastic.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 12, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
Alek Manoah has been fantastic.

Yup. Nice to have a highly touted young pitcher look good at the MLB level. I don't think the team has had that since Stroman/Sanchez.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on August 12, 2021, 10:25:11 AM
man I hate these west coast jaunts when I have to be up at 6 am......

on the plus side, apparently Bo didn't play last night so I didn't miss anything.......except Manoah's great outing
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on August 12, 2021, 12:03:13 PM
Springer though, right?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 12, 2021, 12:22:57 PM
Vlad Jr is finally slumping to the point that he hasn't been good.  His at bat after missing the ball in the sun was awful.  He's in his head right now.  They obviously aren't going to sit him with Ohtani on the mound tonight but I wouldn't mind seeing them potentially rest him in the two games against the Nationals this week.  They have off days on Monday and Thursday.  You can always pinch hit him in those games but it might be a good time to give him 3-4 days off to regroup.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 15, 2021, 12:40:17 AM
Springer hurt again…..also Montoyo is a terrible manager
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on August 17, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Back to 4 games back of a wildcard...
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 17, 2021, 08:21:03 PM
I guess Springer is made of glass this year.  On the IL with a knee injury now.  Montoyo’s comments talked about being hopeful he isn’t done for the year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on August 17, 2021, 10:58:32 PM
Tonight is the night the season died.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on August 17, 2021, 11:51:09 PM
For the love of God, why is Montoyo still employed?!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on August 18, 2021, 12:49:24 AM
For the love of God, why is Montoyo still employed?!
I'm dumb when it comes to baseball. What's he doing that's causing us to lose games?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 18, 2021, 07:45:02 AM
For the love of God, why is Montoyo still employed?!
I'm dumb when it comes to baseball. What's he doing that's causing us to lose games?

Honestly not a lot.  His bullpen has been awful regardless of who they put in.....but he pulls Buck Shoewalter level moves.  Game close...put Dolis in.  His bullpen management isn't good.
Granted again the bullpen overall sucks but he sticks with guys too long.  He has a short leash for his starters but then lets relievers come in and destroy games over and over again.  Dolis shouldn't be on an MLB roster.  He had a decent 20 innings last year and now has a 5.6 ER and 1.75 WHIP.  He's awful. 

The Jays are 4 games back of the wildcard and Oakland/Boston/New York are all tied for it now.  The Jays are heading in the wrong direction.  This was never really a playoff calibre team.  They can't beat teams that are >.500 with any consistency.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 18, 2021, 08:30:41 AM
Dolis' numbers are skewed by a handful of bad games. He hasn't been as good as last season, but he also hasn't been as bad as his numbers suggest. Mostly, his poor outings have been in games the team was already faring poorly in. That's not to excuse Montoya - his bullpen/rotation management isn't great - but, Dolis' struggles have been overstated. The bigger problem is the mixed bag of garbage the team has had to rely on (Milone, Chatwood, etc.).
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on August 18, 2021, 01:04:58 PM

The Jays are 4 games back of the wildcard and Oakland/Boston/New York are all tied for it now.  The Jays are heading in the wrong direction.  This was never really a playoff calibre team.  They can't beat teams that are >.500 with any consistency.

I don't know why there's such a rush on to make them a playoff team.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 18, 2021, 02:22:14 PM
Well that’s the end of Dolis.  DFA’d today for the Jays to add Kevin Smith to the 40-man roster
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on August 18, 2021, 02:39:31 PM
Dolis' numbers are skewed by a handful of bad games. He hasn't been as good as last season, but he also hasn't been as bad as his numbers suggest. Mostly, his poor outings have been in games the team was already faring poorly in. That's not to excuse Montoya - his bullpen/rotation management isn't great - but, Dolis' struggles have been overstated. The bigger problem is the mixed bag of garbage the team has had to rely on (Milone, Chatwood, etc.).

I dunno, he’s looked pretty awful to me. And maybe I’m even more annoyed watching him pitch because of how deliberately slow he is.

I don’t think the numbers lie in this case.

 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 18, 2021, 03:12:14 PM
I dunno, he’s looked pretty awful to me. And maybe I’m even more annoyed watching him pushy because of how deliberately slow he is.

I don’t think the numbers lie in this case.

The last week or so was definitely a low point, and the team clearly agrees with you and L K. He's been burned some by the defence behind him (.318 BABIP compared to an MLB average of .297 and his FIP is more than a full run better than his ERA) and his control issues haven't helped - especially recently - but some of his advanced numbers grade out pretty well, especially in terms of keeping the ball in the park. Overall, he grades out as a pretty average reliever, which isn't anything to cry about losing, but far from awful. Mostly, he's not reliable in high leverage situations and shouldn't have been used in so many, but that's on Montoya. He shouldn't be anywhere near the mound in the 9th inning of a close game, and only used sparingly in the 8th (or against Boston, who have really beat up on him) - but, when the team has rolled him out a little earlier, he's mostly been good.

He's no big loss, but he's hardly been the team's worst reliever, either. The bullpen is what has kept this team from being a playoff team, really. The lineup is one of the best in baseball, the starting pitching has been mostly excellent. With a better bullpen, the Jays almost certainly have a record closer to their pythagorean record. Can't really blame one pitcher or even the manager for that. That's more on Atkins and Shapiro - though, to their credit, they did make a number of moves to address the issue. Just might have been too little, too late.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on August 18, 2021, 04:36:47 PM
What's Kevin Smith like?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 18, 2021, 06:00:38 PM
What's Kevin Smith like?

He’s an excellent filmmaker.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 18, 2021, 06:46:11 PM
And the bullpen does it again.  Jays score three runs to take the lead and then Brad Hand implodes and the Jays are losing again
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on August 19, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
And the bullpen does it again.  Jays score three runs to take the lead and then Brad Hand implodes and the Jays are losing again

I stopped watching before this happened. Why put Brad Hand in at that point? Bonkers.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on August 19, 2021, 12:19:05 PM
I know he had a Hand in that loss.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on August 20, 2021, 11:54:04 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/nate-pearson-toronto-blue-jays-buffalo-bisons-1.1683632

Is the plan to have Pearson pitch out of the bullpen soon'ish?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 20, 2021, 11:56:07 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/nate-pearson-toronto-blue-jays-buffalo-bisons-1.1683632

Is the plan to have Pearson pitch out of the bullpen soon'ish?

For the rest of this season, yeah. I suspect he'll be brought up by next weekend.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 20, 2021, 12:18:47 PM
Julian Merryweather appeared out of the ether yesterday too.  Threw an inning gave up 1 hit, 1 walk and struck out a batter in Dunedin.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on August 20, 2021, 02:38:34 PM
The Heat is On.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 20, 2021, 08:26:58 PM
Julian Merryweather appeared out of the ether yesterday too.  Threw an inning gave up 1 hit, 1 walk and struck out a batter in Dunedin.

And he’s done.  Had a setback and is injured again.  He probably shouldn’t play baseball.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on August 21, 2021, 12:08:24 AM
Well that was an annoying game to attend.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on August 21, 2021, 10:25:03 AM
Eesh.  The Jays are 14 for 76 with runners in scoring position in this stretch against borderline teams in the last two weeks.  The bats have really crapped the bed
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on August 21, 2021, 10:33:37 AM
Well that was an annoying game to attend.

That must have been tough to sit through.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on August 21, 2021, 12:49:04 PM
Eesh.  The Jays are 14 for 76 with runners in scoring position in this stretch against borderline teams in the last two weeks.  The bats have really crapped the bed

Runners on 1st and 2nd, nobody out in the bottom of the 9th against a pitcher with heat as well as control issues and they decide to bring in the "bunter" essentially allowing the 1st baseman to set up a chair 6 feet from home plate and allowing the pitcher to take a little off his pitch to make sure they were in the strike zone. The Jays basically handed them the outs in that inning. There was no way, with the velocity the pitcher was throwing, that the bunt wasn't going to go up the 1st base line. If they were going to bunt, they should have brought up a leftie to bat, forcing the ball down the 3rd baseline making it almost impossible to get Hernandez out at 3rd base.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on August 22, 2021, 05:11:12 PM
This is such a frustrating team. Why am I watching?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on August 22, 2021, 05:40:12 PM
This is such a frustrating team. Why am I watching?

I was thinking the same thing as I watched that dropped ball in the 9th and then the collapse in the 11th.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on August 25, 2021, 09:38:15 AM
Early returns on the Berrios trade not too shit hot eh guys?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on August 25, 2021, 01:51:34 PM
Early returns on the Berrios trade not too shit hot eh guys?
Ya maybe Simon Woods Richardson would have pitched at least 2 innings.  Hope he can turn it around very soon, he was supposed to be one of the best pieces of our new puzzle.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 25, 2021, 02:01:33 PM
Early returns on the Berrios trade not too shit hot eh guys?

He's had a couple rough starts, yeah, but with only 5 games in a Blue Jays' uniform, hard to say much. His numbers are skewed by an unsustainably high BABIP of .392 compared to .263 at the time of the trade (and MLB avg of .297). He should come around once guys stop hitting it to where his teammates aren't.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on August 25, 2021, 03:07:01 PM
I’m not too fussed about it because I’m playing the long game with Berrios. Maybe he’s had a few rough outings but he’s had enough of a track record to know that he’s better than this.

I’m not disappointed because I never thought this was a playoff team this season, but to have him next season and potentially beyond? I’m good with that.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on August 26, 2021, 04:10:41 PM
Man Ryu is not very good.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on August 26, 2021, 04:43:57 PM
Man Ryu is not very good.

Having a rough stretch, for sure, and has not been at his absolute best this season. Not worried about him, though. He had 3 straight Cy Young calibre seasons coming this year - two top 3 finishes, and a third where, if he stayed healthy, almost certainly would have been top 5. He'll sort himself out.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on August 30, 2021, 10:10:53 PM

Wow, that's crazy.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on August 30, 2021, 10:41:16 PM

Wow, that's crazy.
He's having an insane season. Is he in the Cy Young conversation?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on August 31, 2021, 12:49:23 AM

Wow, that's crazy.
He's having an insane season. Is he in the Cy Young conversation?
Paging Nik...
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on August 31, 2021, 10:22:33 AM
I haven't followed much of whatever the current AL Cy Young conversation may be right now but he's leading the AL in Pitching WAR via Baseball Reference. That'll earn votes even if he's not in the larger narrative.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on September 01, 2021, 11:54:22 PM
Gotta think the weekend series with Oakland and the following four with the Yanks is the season. Fare well and there may be a playoff chance. Lose those two series and it's the end of the line.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on September 04, 2021, 10:38:25 AM
Being a fan of the Jays lately is a real emotional roller coaster.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 04, 2021, 01:59:21 PM
Not if you had realistic expectations for this season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on September 04, 2021, 06:29:06 PM
So I hardly know anything about baseball stats but it does seem interesting that the Jays are 2nd in run differential in the entire MLB but aren't even close to the WC spot yet.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210904/b147fb4ba2c7f3665d9c029737b840d6.jpg)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 05, 2021, 10:54:46 AM
So I hardly know anything about baseball stats but it does seem interesting that the Jays are 2nd in run differential in the entire MLB but aren't even close to the WC spot yet.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210904/b147fb4ba2c7f3665d9c029737b840d6.jpg)
That’s so messed up.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 05, 2021, 11:06:56 AM
So I hardly know anything about baseball stats but it does seem interesting that the Jays are 2nd in run differential in the entire MLB but aren't even close to the WC spot yet.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210904/b147fb4ba2c7f3665d9c029737b840d6.jpg)

Yeah it's strange to see. They've really blew some teams out this year but haven't won the close 1 run games.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 05, 2021, 02:53:40 PM
That run differential is sure going up today.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on September 05, 2021, 04:34:04 PM
Meaningful games in September. Loving it. Crazy series.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 05, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
Yeah it's strange to see. They've really blew some teams out this year but haven't won the close 1 run games.

Yeah. Bullpen has been an issue all season. Has definitely cost the team a number of games. And the lineup has had some struggles producing in high leverage situations.

A little more consistency, and they’d be sitting in a wildcard spot.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on September 05, 2021, 05:51:05 PM
Yeah it's strange to see. They've really blew some teams out this year but haven't won the close 1 run games.

Yeah. Bullpen has been an issue all season. Has definitely cost the team a number of games. And the lineup has had some struggles producing in high leverage situations.

A little more consistency, and they’d be sitting in a wildcard spot.

Good take, busta.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on September 06, 2021, 09:06:31 PM
What's the moneyball take on Semien?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 06, 2021, 09:53:10 PM
What's the moneyball take on Semien?

Give him all the monies.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on September 07, 2021, 06:12:38 AM
Yeah, if they truly want to be a contender they need to pay players like Semien contender level money.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on September 07, 2021, 09:16:55 AM
I get the feeling that Semien will end up with one of the California teams and it won't be because the Jays didn't offer a similar deal.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 07, 2021, 09:56:06 AM
Semien is worth the money for the next few years but I'd be a little leery of the end of his deal.  The Jays are in an interesting position right now where they are good today but their best form might be 2-3 years from now when Vlad/Bo start to get a little grizzled. 

I'm more focused on them extending Robbie Ray at this point but I do think they should offer up a truck to Semien.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on September 07, 2021, 01:04:01 PM
Thanks for the responses folks.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 07, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
This is the way I see it:

If they Jays fail to re-sign Ray it’s because the Jays somehow screwed up.

If the Jays fail to sign Semien it’s because he doesn’t want to be here.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on September 08, 2021, 12:23:40 PM
2 games back of the wildcard today.

And as an aside, congrats to Larry Walker.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 09, 2021, 09:31:35 AM
1.5GB of the wildcard now.  2 games back of the 1st wildcard after a 6-3 win last night.

Juilian Merryweather was activated last night but didn't pitch. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 09, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
This has been so much fun. I’m just worried about those 6 games left against TB. Those games are going to suck.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 09, 2021, 10:32:23 AM
This has been so much fun. I’m just worried about those 6 games left against TB. Those games are going to suck.

Ryan freaking Yarbrough. 

4GP 3 starts 21.2 IP  2.49 ERA   0.83 WHIP .195 batting average

Ryan Yarbrough's season numbers: 26GP 20 starts 136 IP 4.90 ERA 1.23 WHIP .266 batting average

His stuff isn't good.  The Jays are just baffled by him.  I'm sure we'll get stuck facing him twice in those 6 games.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 09, 2021, 01:50:34 PM
This has been so much fun. I’m just worried about those 6 games left against TB. Those games are going to suck.
They’re going to complete the sweep of the Yankees and then immediately get swept by Baltimore, aren’t they?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on September 09, 2021, 03:01:51 PM
This has been so much fun. I’m just worried about those 6 games left against TB. Those games are going to suck.
They’re going to complete the sweep of the Yankees and then immediately get swept by Baltimore, aren’t they?

Then beat the Rays, getting my hopes back up, and then get swept by the Twins.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 09, 2021, 04:29:13 PM
This has been so much fun. I’m just worried about those 6 games left against TB. Those games are going to suck.
They’re going to complete the sweep of the Yankees and then immediately get swept by Baltimore, aren’t they?

Then beat the Rays, getting my hopes back up, and then get swept by the Twins.
I’ll be shocked if that doesn’t happen.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 09, 2021, 10:45:25 PM
Vlad hits #42 and the Jays sweep the Yankees in a four game series.  That’s just the second time that has happened in New York in the last 20 years.  The Jays were the last team to do it in 2003
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gerald The Duck on September 10, 2021, 12:26:36 AM
Even better:

?s=19
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on September 10, 2021, 10:05:28 AM
Gotta think the weekend series with Oakland and the following four with the Yanks is the season. Fare well and there may be a playoff chance. Lose those two series and it's the end of the line.

So you're telling me there's a chance!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 10, 2021, 04:31:19 PM
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CSu32_lgAvB/?utm_medium=share_sheet

I imagine this is how the Jays left New York.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on September 10, 2021, 06:08:54 PM
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CSu32_lgAvB/?utm_medium=share_sheet

I imagine this is how the Jays left New York.

Nice. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 11, 2021, 08:31:01 AM
Missed a real opportunity against Baltimore last night with the Yanks and Red Sox losing. Sign of over confidence?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 11, 2021, 10:33:32 AM
Missed a real opportunity against Baltimore last night with the Yanks and Red Sox losing. Sign of over confidence?

I’m going to say more of an emotional let down after the last two big series.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 11, 2021, 12:04:08 PM
Missed a real opportunity against Baltimore last night with the Yanks and Red Sox losing. Sign of over confidence?

I’m going to say more of an emotional let down after the last two big series.

Probably correct on that one.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 11, 2021, 12:37:35 PM
Missed a real opportunity against Baltimore last night with the Yanks and Red Sox losing. Sign of over confidence?

I’m going to say more of an emotional let down after the last two big series.

Probably correct on that one.

Hopefully. We’ll see how they do today. That will tell us a little more.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on September 11, 2021, 03:07:53 PM
Jays have a huge advantage today. both 7-inning games. Can avoid taxing the bullpen.

Hopefully Ryu can go deep in game 1. They have Stripling starting game two coming off an extended stay on the injured list so who knows how many innings he's good for.

Jays can pick up a game today regardless, if they win both. Let's go!!!

Edit: Scratch that, Hatch starting game two now.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 11, 2021, 07:55:46 PM
What a comeback.  Score 4 in the top of the second to avoid going down 2 in a row to Baltimore.  11-10 win
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 11, 2021, 10:43:24 PM
Getting no-hit by a terrible pitcher into the 7th inning……and now they have put up 10 hits and 8 runs with only 1-out

Make that 11 hits and 11 runs
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 11, 2021, 10:47:47 PM
Crazy inning. This team is something.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 12, 2021, 06:35:38 AM
Crazy inning. This team is something.

I really think that they are on the cusp of being one of, if not the, best team in baseball. It really makes me hope they're able to hold onto Semien and Ray
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 12, 2021, 11:41:28 AM


Getting no-hit by a terrible pitcher into the 7th inning……and now they have put up 10 hits and 8 runs with only 1-out

Make that 11 hits and 11 runs

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 12, 2021, 01:14:41 PM
Starting off hot in Game 4 of the series.  Up 5-0 after a Gurriel grand slam (he might be the hottest player on the team)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 12, 2021, 01:44:42 PM
Starting off hot in Game 4 of the series.  Up 5-0 after a Gurriel grand slam (he might be the hottest player on the team)

Vladdy might have something to say about that.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 12, 2021, 02:14:47 PM
Starting off hot in Game 4 of the series.  Up 5-0 after a Gurriel grand slam (he might be the hottest player on the team)

Vladdy might have something to say about that.

Hernandez also now with 102 RBIs to tie Vlad there off another grand slam.

14-3 Jays in the 3rd inning……16-3
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 12, 2021, 02:17:39 PM
Starting off hot in Game 4 of the series.  Up 5-0 after a Gurriel grand slam (he might be the hottest player on the team)

Vladdy might have something to say about that.

Hernandez also now with 102 RBIs to tie Vlad there off another grand slam.

14-3 Jays in the 3rd inning……16-3
27 runs scored in their last 4 innings.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 12, 2021, 04:17:55 PM
Starting off hot in Game 4 of the series.  Up 5-0 after a Gurriel grand slam (he might be the hottest player on the team)

Vladdy might have something to say about that.

Hernandez also now with 102 RBIs to tie Vlad there off another grand slam.

14-3 Jays in the 3rd inning……16-3
27 runs scored in their last 4 innings.

33 in a 7 inning stretch. When the offence is rolling, it just rolls right over teams.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 12, 2021, 04:57:23 PM

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on September 12, 2021, 05:11:07 PM
One way of making sure the bullpen problems don’t matter.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 12, 2021, 07:47:37 PM
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CTieLe_KWQk/?utm_medium=share_sheet

Jays leaving Baltimore.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 13, 2021, 08:56:56 AM
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CTieLe_KWQk/?utm_medium=share_sheet

Jays leaving Baltimore.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 13, 2021, 10:56:04 AM
The graphic isn't appropriate anymore. 
The Jays sit in the 1st WC slot now (based on win percentage as they are technically tied with Boston).

Toronto - 80-63     -------
Boston - 81-64      -------
New York - 79-64  1.0 GB
Oakland -77-66     3.0 GB
Seattle - 77-66      3.0 GB

Boston - @SEAx3, BALx3, NYMx2, NYYx3, @BALx3, @WASx3
New York - MINx1,@BALx3, CLEx3, TEXx3, @BOSx3, @TORx3, TBx3
Seattle - BOSx3, @KCx3, @OAKx4, @ANAx3, OAKx3, ANAx3
Oakland - @KCx3, @ANAx3, SEAx4, HOUx3, @SEAx3, @HOUx3

Toronto - TBx3, MINx3, @TBx3, @MINx4, NYYx3, BALx3

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 13, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Can you imagine if they’d won even half of those blown lead games or the extra innings games? They’d be right there with Tampa.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 13, 2021, 12:03:57 PM
Can you imagine if they’d won even half of those blown lead games or the extra innings games? They’d be right there with Tampa.

Yup. If the bullpen didn't suck for a huge chunk of the season, they'd be fighting for the division. Tampa and Toronto have identical expected W-L records.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 13, 2021, 09:29:47 PM
Jay’s are up 8-0 in the 7th on the division leading Rays, outhitting them 15-1. This is just an insane 4 game run.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 13, 2021, 09:58:02 PM
It really bothers me that they didn’t let manoah finish the game.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 13, 2021, 11:02:08 PM
It really bothers me that they didn’t let manoah finish the game.

Like, you think he wanted to but they wouldn't let him? Or just in general you think he should?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 13, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
It really bothers me that they didn’t let manoah finish the game.

Like, you think he wanted to but they wouldn't let him? Or just in general you think he should?

Just in general I think he should. It’s 8-0, he’s only allowed 1 hit, why waste a bullpen arm? And the death of the complete game just bothers me to no end.

If there was ever a situation where you’d think you’d let the guy finish what he started, this was it.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 13, 2021, 11:14:45 PM

Fair enough. I guess modern pitching staffs are almost this catch 22 where you feel you need 8 or 9 guys because pitchers can't go the distance but then you sort of have to find work for all of them so they're not out of practice for the games where you actually need them.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 14, 2021, 08:12:57 AM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 14, 2021, 09:59:03 AM
Guerrero Jr now sits in first for the American League in Home Runs, Batting Average, and Hits. He's 4 RBI's back for the lead there. Is the Triple Crown a possibility?

Also, if you look at the compete MLB, he still leads in HR's and hits and just falls back to 2nd in batting average. He's also still 4 RBI's back of first.

The man is a beast.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 15, 2021, 05:48:42 PM
Another series win taking 2 of 3 against Tampa.  This team is good.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 16, 2021, 12:06:15 AM
Another series win taking 2 of 3 against Tampa.  This team is good.
It's just astonishing that the Red Sox and Yankees are tied with the Jays in the wild card spot, and the run differential for each team is +55, +33 and +172 respectively. The Jays have outscored their opponents basically by double the other two teams *combined*. And they're all tied.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 16, 2021, 05:09:47 AM
It’s all due to the Jays terrible record in extra innings and  blowing late leads. Flatten that and they'd be contending for the division.

Another thing that’s a little crazy, if you look at this day in 2015, the Jays had the exact same record but had a 3 game lead for the division.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on September 16, 2021, 12:29:38 PM
Another series win taking 2 of 3 against Tampa.  This team is good.
Just glad we weren't playing at Tropicana.  AKA the Bluejay Graveyard.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on September 16, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Another series win taking 2 of 3 against Tampa.  This team is good.
Just glad we weren't playing at Tropicana.  AKA the Bluejay Graveyard.

Next week.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on September 17, 2021, 12:13:11 PM
Another series win taking 2 of 3 against Tampa.  This team is good.
Just glad we weren't playing at Tropicana.  AKA the Bluejay Graveyard.

Next week.
Noooooooooooooo :o
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 17, 2021, 08:03:20 PM
Ryu is done.  He throws batting practice now in too many starts
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 17, 2021, 10:48:33 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: herman on September 18, 2021, 08:36:41 AM
This was nice
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on September 18, 2021, 03:03:21 PM
All we got was Merry Weather for Bringer of Rain.   
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 18, 2021, 07:49:53 PM
All we got was Merry Weather for Bringer of Rain.

Do you forget how broken he was at the time of that trade? They traded him at his absolute lowest value.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on September 19, 2021, 12:29:47 PM
he was more broken than humpty dumpty and didn't look like he could be put together again.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 19, 2021, 04:12:19 PM

Well, after a so-so start to his Jays career Berrios has only allowed 9 earned runs in his last 5 starts and has gone at least 6.2 innings in all of them.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 20, 2021, 12:24:31 PM
Post-allstar break the team has a combined ERA of 3.71 good for 6th in all of baseball.  It's #1 in the AL (New York at 3.72)
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on September 20, 2021, 08:29:40 PM
The streams that get posted for the Leafs in the gdt, would there be a Jay's equivalent?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 20, 2021, 10:34:33 PM

Ah shoot.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 21, 2021, 07:50:29 AM
The streams that get posted for the Leafs in the gdt, would there be a Jay's equivalent?

Those sites that get linked there have MLB streams as well on their pages.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on September 21, 2021, 10:06:55 AM
The streams that get posted for the Leafs in the gdt, would there be a Jay's equivalent?

Those sites that get linked there have MLB streams as well on their pages.
Thanks CtB, that's what I did after posting, I turned it on just for RR to give up a 3 run dinner, sorry.

Another helpful user sent me a link via pm. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 21, 2021, 06:20:42 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 23, 2021, 08:59:07 AM
Certainly not unexpected but the Jays fell flat on their faces in Tropicana.  They lost 2 of three.

The Kirk-Kiermaier wrist card thing was stupid.  I don't like Kiermaier doing it.  It wasn't a card that was left in a dugout or accidentally delivered to the wrong lockerroom.  He knocked it off Kirk's wrist and then picked it up.  The Jays noticed it and wanted it back and he wouldn't give it back.  A guy on second base reading signs off the catcher is one thing, Kiermaier actively stole something.  It's poor sportsmanship.

Some of the home plate umpiring was abysmal particularly in the first two games.  It was a perfect set of games to hold up as advocacy for a robotic strikezone.  Ron Kulpa and Joe West are both terrible umpires.  Both are in the bottom 5 in the league for pitch call accuracy.

Then that gets traded off with the thing I think I hate the most in baseball when the Jays intentionally hit him. 

End result the Jays are now sitting 0.5 games back of the Yankees for the 2nd wildcard.

The Jays start a 4-game series against Minnesota tonight in Minneapolis.  New York and Boston have the day off and all teams will be even in GP after tonight.  New York and Boston play three against each other starting on Friday.  Best outcome for the Jays would be a Boston series win at this point.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 23, 2021, 10:09:10 AM

Then that gets traded off with the thing I think I hate the most in baseball when the Jays intentionally hit him. 


Emotions can derail young teams. I don't think this series necessarily knocks them off the path they were on, but it certainly creates drama/distraction on a team where it's not needed. Coaches needed to control emotions of themselves, and their players. The stolen card thing was stupid, but who cares really in the end. Tampa has the same reviews as Toronto has on the hitters. They know how teams are going to pitch to their players. Each player knows what pitchers are going to try and do to them. They all have books.

In regards to the terrible umpiring, it was abysmal in that first game and IMO cost the Jays the game. Ray was painting the strike zone and getting no calls. His pitch count went up because of these calls. It was rather confusing and understandably frustrating for the Jays. It continued on throughout the game(including the 9th where the Rays pitcher received some calls that were clear balls).

So, theoretically, the Jays should have taken 2 out of 3 games. Game 3 was a sh*tshow and I hope that it wasn't a sign of emotions getting the better of the young players. If it is, I hope the manager can real them in.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 23, 2021, 01:40:37 PM
If we ‘roll back the tape’ here and think back to 2 weeks ago I think we’d all would have been happy with the Jays going 3-3 with the rays.

The Jays absolutely still control their own destiny. They aren’t chasing anyone.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 23, 2021, 01:44:18 PM
If we ‘roll back the tape’ here and think back to 2 weeks ago I think we’d all would have been happy with the Jays going 3-3 with the rays.

The Jays absolutely still control their own destiny. They aren’t chasing anyone.

Winning the series with the Yankees next week is now absolutely crucial for the Jays. Also, with New York and Boston facing off this weekend, beating up on Minnesota is also very important.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 23, 2021, 02:01:14 PM
I agree. But the point is it’s all in their control. They take care of their own games they don’t need to worry about other teams helping them out.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 23, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
Still have to win the majority of the bad teams. 7 of their last 10 against Minnesota and Baltimore.

They are 5-2 in their last 7 games against Baltimore but even two of those wins required late game heroics to come back (granted they ultimately blew them out in one of those games).   They took 2 of 3 from Minnesota the last time they played but it wasn't like they had cake-walks against them either.   Minnesota is on their last homestand of the year so I don't want to bank on anything being easy.

5-2 has to be a minimum result out of those 7 games

Really though, at the end of the day the Jays took a team that at the start of the year was probably just an 80-84 win team and are going to likely win 90+ games so that's a good positive outcome regardless of the end of season standings.  Especially given that the bullpen was a big factor in the Jays losing more than a handful of games earlier in the year.  If they had signed a different closer than Yates who was apparently known to be injured at the time of signing who knows how much better off they would be.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on September 23, 2021, 05:09:56 PM
Its time for Robo umpires, we have the technology, with fastballs coming at the plate at over 100MPH human umpires are going to make frequent mistakes, which they do inning to inning.   Look at what machine umpiring has done for Tennis.  The strike zone should be the strike zone.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 23, 2021, 10:01:27 PM
This game is a train wreck.  Gurriel get hurt by Grichuk stepping on his hand.   The pitching has been awful and the bats can’t drive in runners in scoring position.

And now Rivera the incompetent 3rd base coach strikes again
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 24, 2021, 07:49:11 AM
This game is a train wreck.  Gurriel get hurt by Grichuk stepping on his hand.   The pitching has been awful and the bats can’t drive in runners in scoring position.

And now Rivera the incompetent 3rd base coach strikes again

I turned the game off when it was 2-2. Matz seemed to be a mess from what I watched. Couldn't find the strike zone. But yes, that 2nd inning, when they had runners on with none out and they only managed to get one run was disappointing.
Is there anyone they can put in for Grichuk? Is Springer able to go back out in centre field and then maybe Kirk can go DH? Or Jansen when Kirk is catching.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on September 25, 2021, 06:02:37 PM
*sniffle*  I"m still salty that they traded Donaldson
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on September 26, 2021, 01:41:19 PM
Even if they didn't trade him, he wouldn't be here.

There was no way he was going to sign with the Jays after the 2018 season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on September 26, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Even if they didn't trade him, he wouldn't be here.

There was no way he was going to sign with the Jays after the 2018 season.
I am astounded at how well he bounced back, perhaps his insights into the training staff at the time were correct. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 26, 2021, 07:55:46 PM
Jays didn't have a perfect day but get the win 5-2 to split the series against Minnesota.

Boston is playing New York right now.  Oakland and Seattle won their games.

Boston - 88-67
New York - 88-67
--------------------
Toronto 87-69 (1.5 GB) ELIM# 6
Seattle 86-70 (2.5 GB) ELIM# 5
Oakland 85-71 (3.5 GB) ELIM# 4

Best scenario is probably a Yankees loss at this point.  Would have the Jays 2.0 GB of Boston but only 1.0 GB of New York.  That would let them tie New York going 2-1 instead of really needing a sweep of their series to pass them.  New York finishes against Tampa while Toronto gets Balitmore.

Boston has Baltimore/Washington so more easier games than not. 

Oakland and Seattle play three more games against each other so either Seattle eliminates Oakland or they split some games and make it easier on Toronto.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on September 27, 2021, 05:35:40 AM
It's crazy/frustrating that the Jays are such a decent team but stuck in this horrible division where they could be just the 4th best in it, but good enough to win a couple of other divisions. (allowing that their record would be better cos they'd be playing some weaker teams more often).

But in saying that I doubt anyone expected they'd even still be in the running this year with 6 games left.

If they can sneak into the playoffs they're the kind of team who could do some damage too.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 27, 2021, 12:06:11 PM
I don’t blame the division this year. The jays had a very weak first half fuelled by their terrible bullpen. That was very hard to overcome and full credit to them for putting themselves in this position - team and management. But when this season started I did not think they were a playoff team. Remember this team broke camp with Roark as a starter and Dolis as a big fixture in the bulllen.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
I don’t blame the division this year. The leafs had a very weak first half fuelled by their terrible bullpen.

Within the context of that "terrible bullpen" though it's important to remember that they lost the guy who was supposed to be their closer for the season in training camp and then lost his replacement pretty quickly after. So a lot of it was patchwork and waiting around until you could fine tune things at the deadline.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2021, 01:43:39 PM
Within the context of that "terrible bullpen" though it's important to remember that they lost the guy who was supposed to be their closer for the season in training camp and then lost his replacement pretty quickly after. So a lot of it was patchwork and waiting around until you could fine tune things at the deadline.

Sure, but they also probably shouldn't have counted on a guy who was coming back from a major injury and was ineffective when healthy last season - and with a pretty limited record as a closer, too. That's a failing on the front office.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 27, 2021, 01:54:17 PM
I don’t blame the division this year. The leafs had a very weak first half fuelled by their terrible bullpen.

Within the context of that "terrible bullpen" though it's important to remember that they lost the guy who was supposed to be their closer for the season in training camp and then lost his replacement pretty quickly after. So a lot of it was patchwork and waiting around until you could fine tune things at the deadline.

Yes that’s true. But he didn’t even start training camp. It’s easy to say in retrospect but they should have been a little more proactive at the time. They had plenty of time to address his loss, and they knew he was a risk as his contract was heavily incentive based.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on September 27, 2021, 01:55:31 PM
I also notice that I said leafs and not Jays but I’ll forgive myself what with this being a leafs board and all.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2021, 02:05:32 PM
Sure, but they also probably shouldn't have counted on a guy who was coming back from a major injury and was ineffective when healthy last season - and with a pretty limited record as a closer, too. That's a failing on the front office.

I mean, 6 bad games vs. 3 straight very effective years as a relief pitcher doesn't seem like a fair encapsulation of him and basically every team in the league is probably depending on big contributions from pitchers recovering from major injuries but, absolutely, they did not put together a championship calibre bullpen this off-season and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, just that things could have gone better if they'd caught a break or two.

Now, I don't think building a bullpen in an off-season was a super realistic goal and in general I don't think that's something you try should do via free agency and trade vs. building one internally but it's a fair criticism that their failure to do so may ultimately cost the team a playoff birth this year. Me, I guess between bringing back Ray and signing Semien and Springer I'd say it was still a pretty good off-season for the front office but ymmv.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 27, 2021, 02:17:49 PM
So who are the "must sign" free agents this off season for the Jays?

Robbie Ray and Semien are the obvious ones, but are there any other note worthy expiring contracts on the team?

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 27, 2021, 02:21:06 PM
So who are the "must sign" free agents this off season for the Jays?

Robbie Ray and Semien are the obvious ones, but are there any other note worthy expiring contracts on the team?

Other than Matz - who has been better than expected - it's really just role players and replaceable bullpen arms.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2021, 02:35:58 PM
Robbie Ray and Semien are the obvious ones, but are there any other note worthy expiring contracts on the team?

I don't know if I'd categorize Semien as such. Obviously signing him would be great and I very much want the Jays to do it but it's not a terrible market for the Jays if they basically want to do what they did last year and pick over the remnants of the market to find a 2B for next year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 27, 2021, 03:32:31 PM
Sure, but they also probably shouldn't have counted on a guy who was coming back from a major injury and was ineffective when healthy last season - and with a pretty limited record as a closer, too. That's a failing on the front office.

I mean, 6 bad games vs. 3 straight very effective years as a relief pitcher doesn't seem like a fair encapsulation of him and basically every team in the league is probably depending on big contributions from pitchers recovering from major injuries but, absolutely, they did not put together a championship calibre bullpen this off-season and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, just that things could have gone better if they'd caught a break or two.

Now, I don't think building a bullpen in an off-season was a super realistic goal and in general I don't think that's something you try should do via free agency and trade vs. building one internally but it's a fair criticism that their failure to do so may ultimately cost the team a playoff birth this year. Me, I guess between bringing back Ray and signing Semien and Springer I'd say it was still a pretty good off-season for the front office but ymmv.

I think the bigger concern is that they knew Yates wasn’t healthy when they signed him.  They just hopes he would get healthier but it was pretty high risk that that would go well and it didn’t.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2021, 03:59:40 PM
I think the bigger concern is that they knew Yates wasn’t healthy when they signed him.  They just hopes he would get healthier but it was pretty high risk that that would go well and it didn’t.

I may have crossed wires but I didn't remember hearing anything to that effect.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 27, 2021, 05:31:39 PM
I think the bigger concern is that they knew Yates wasn’t healthy when they signed him.  They just hopes he would get healthier but it was pretty high risk that that would go well and it didn’t.

I may have crossed wires but I didn't remember hearing anything to that effect.


?s=20

Supposedly there was an MRI that showed elbow damage that had the Braves back off Yates and the Jays reduced their offer to Yates from 8.5 to 5.5M
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 27, 2021, 07:24:27 PM

Fair enough. It was definitely a gamble.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on September 27, 2021, 08:19:58 PM
It's crazy/frustrating that the Jays are such a decent team but stuck in this horrible division where they could be just the 4th best in it, but good enough to win a couple of other divisions. (allowing that their record would be better cos they'd be playing some weaker teams more often).

But in saying that I doubt anyone expected they'd even still be in the running this year with 6 games left.

If they can sneak into the playoffs they're the kind of team who could do some damage too.

What’s the solution for being in the division? Requesting a re-alignment? Under what bases?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on September 28, 2021, 04:48:07 AM
I wasn't "blaming" the division or anything, if it came across that way.

Just saying it's frustrating that you're stuck in a division with 3 other teams who have over the last couple of decades, been really good at times, and often it feels like at least 2 of the others are good together ;D

So even when the Jays outperform expectations (which I think they probably are this year) they still might not make a post season.

As for changes that I do think might work, I would expand the post season similar to what they had last season so that more than 4 teams from each League get in. Maybe expand the wild cards from 2 to 4 or something like that. Have a 1 game series 1v4 and 2v3 then a 3 game series between the winners then the usual post season after that.

It feels a shame to me that only 2 of Boston, Toronto, the Yankees, Seattle and even Oakland are going to get into the post season when they could all win 90+ games.

It's a bit more clear cut in the NL, to be fair.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on September 28, 2021, 07:37:07 AM
I always kinda wondered why baseball has such a long season only to shut out so many teams from the post season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 28, 2021, 08:35:08 AM
I always kinda wondered why baseball has such a long season only to shut out so many teams from the post season.

Isn't that the point of the regular season, though? You play a long season to separate the contenders from the rest of the pack, and then let them duke it out in the postseason. With the MLB way, making the playoffs is much more meaningful. It's a legitimate accomplishment rather than the bare minimum acceptable result.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 28, 2021, 08:58:43 AM
That's always been the point of baseball.  It's a season grind to get to the best of the best. Their approach hasn't been about creating a more exciting and bigger playoff tournament they use the 162 to separate good from bad teams.

As crappy as the AL East perpetually is the Jays are currently 4th in the division but they are still the 6th best team in the American league.  They would be 2nd in every division in baseball (caveat that SOS changes based on division matchups).

AL East 38-32   AL Central 19-15   AL West 16-16   National League 14-6

Outside of a really good stretch of interleague play at the start of the year it isn't like the Jays are running roughshod over the other divisions.

I'm a fan of doing away with division winners if you aren't going to expand out the playoffs for seeding but aside from that I think baseball's selective playoffs is a nice alternative to the 2-month long postseasons in hockey/basketball.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on September 28, 2021, 09:25:45 AM
Yeah I wouldn't want to expand it out any more than a couple of teams and have half more than half the league qualifying like the NHL, which clearly goes too far the other way.

Ranking/seeding post season on overall record rather than division winners might be an interesting option so you do have the 5 best teams from each league.

Interestingly as things stand the 5 teams in each league currently in the post season qualifying spots are the top 5 in each league. Cincinatti (82-75) in 3rd in the NL Central could potentially pip Atlanta (83-72) who are leading the NL East
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on September 28, 2021, 10:56:05 AM
I wasn't "blaming" the division or anything, if it came across that way.

Just saying it's frustrating that you're stuck in a division with 3 other teams who have over the last couple of decades, been really good at times, and often it feels like at least 2 of the others are good together ;D

So even when the Jays outperform expectations (which I think they probably are this year) they still might not make a post season.

As for changes that I do think might work, I would expand the post season similar to what they had last season so that more than 4 teams from each League get in. Maybe expand the wild cards from 2 to 4 or something like that. Have a 1 game series 1v4 and 2v3 then a 3 game series between the winners then the usual post season after that.

It feels a shame to me that only 2 of Boston, Toronto, the Yankees, Seattle and even Oakland are going to get into the post season when they could all win 90+ games.

It's a bit more clear cut in the NL, to be fair.

Yeah, I hear you.

The division argument is just something heard so often for years now that I don't even know what is to be expected anymore.  We have an ownership group that is flush with cash to compete with the two behemoths in the division.  We see the other rival defying all logic churning over talent year over year and winning divisions on a budget even you and I could afford.  If not us, some other team (ie. Twins or Tigers) would be crying foul. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 28, 2021, 11:28:31 AM
The Jays need to find a way to pair Tampa's scouting/development/whatever black magic they're using with their spending ability. Easier said than done - obviously, every team in the league is trying to do something along those lines - but it is probably the best path for success. The Yankees and Red Sox, with their history, reputation, etc., will always have something of an advantage in the free agent market. That isn't to say the Jays won't have success in the market - the last two offseasons, they've signed one of the premier free agents available - but they need to make up for the advantages that NYY and Boston have through all the other avenues available to them.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on September 28, 2021, 01:06:10 PM
The AL East (minus Baltimore) is better than pretty much the entire National League.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on September 28, 2021, 08:24:13 PM
Ryu isn't filling me with confidence here tonight...
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 28, 2021, 10:24:02 PM
Not a great game.  Ryu was ok but was in jams a lot.  The offense looks horrible the last week.  Vlad Jr is ice cold and they are down 6-2

Boston lost so that’s a thing but eesh.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 28, 2021, 10:49:34 PM

We can complain about the bullpen all we want, and it's a valid point, but it sure feels like there's been just a ton of games this year where the Jays needed a win and they managed, like, 5 hits all game.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on September 28, 2021, 11:10:54 PM

We can complain about the bullpen all we want, and it's a valid point, but it sure feels like there's been just a ton of games this year where the Jays needed a win and they managed, like, 5 hits all game.

Yeah. This loaded lineup has gone cold at the worst possible time.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 29, 2021, 09:37:15 AM

We can complain about the bullpen all we want, and it's a valid point, but it sure feels like there's been just a ton of games this year where the Jays needed a win and they managed, like, 5 hits all game.

It kind of feels like the lineup is too samey.

Too many RHB.  Too many aggressive first pitch swings.  It's hard to complain about the offense on a whole because their season averages are great but it does feel like there are too many all or none games.

Seattle passed them last night so they need to pass both Boston and Seattle now to get the 2nd wildcard.  Boston did their charity game losing to Baltimore in Game 1.  I don't expect them to lose much more so really its now a 5 game win streak and hope the Yankees lose a game or two to Tampa.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 29, 2021, 01:35:40 PM

We can complain about the bullpen all we want, and it's a valid point, but it sure feels like there's been just a ton of games this year where the Jays needed a win and they managed, like, 5 hits all game.

It kind of feels like the lineup is too samey.

Too many RHB.  Too many aggressive first pitch swings.  It's hard to complain about the offense on a whole because their season averages are great but it does feel like there are too many all or none games.

Seattle passed them last night so they need to pass both Boston and Seattle now to get the 2nd wildcard.  Boston did their charity game losing to Baltimore in Game 1.  I don't expect them to lose much more so really its now a 5 game win streak and hope the Yankees lose a game or two to Tampa.

I think a lot of what we are seeing is youth and part of the process
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on September 29, 2021, 02:23:50 PM

We can complain about the bullpen all we want, and it's a valid point, but it sure feels like there's been just a ton of games this year where the Jays needed a win and they managed, like, 5 hits all game.

It kind of feels like the lineup is too samey.

Too many RHB.  Too many aggressive first pitch swings.  It's hard to complain about the offense on a whole because their season averages are great but it does feel like there are too many all or none games.

Seattle passed them last night so they need to pass both Boston and Seattle now to get the 2nd wildcard.  Boston did their charity game losing to Baltimore in Game 1.  I don't expect them to lose much more so really its now a 5 game win streak and hope the Yankees lose a game or two to Tampa.

I think a lot of what we are seeing is youth and part of the process

I agree with that.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 29, 2021, 07:46:52 PM
I thought Gerrit Cole was supposed to be good…
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 29, 2021, 08:03:23 PM
The bats are waking up.  4-0 and lots of hard hit balls.  Helping Ray’s Cy Young chances too
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 29, 2021, 08:27:42 PM
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on September 29, 2021, 08:47:35 PM
and Bo's 100th RBI gives the team 4 guys with 100 or more now, first time since the 2003 Braves
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 29, 2021, 09:24:37 PM
Pain.

0-2 and Mayze throws a hanging slider to Higashioka to tie the game 5-5
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on September 29, 2021, 09:29:43 PM
They blow this one and they’re done. Too many blown opportunities by the bullpen this season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 29, 2021, 09:44:38 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on September 29, 2021, 10:27:39 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

I thought you were booing...Now I realize it was a Booo-urns.....
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 30, 2021, 11:31:22 AM
I hated baseball for a bit there last night but then I liked it again.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 30, 2021, 09:12:18 PM
Ray just imploded in the 6th inning.  5 runs on 4 hits and the Jays offense continues to be awful

Baltimore is in line to take 2 of 3 from Baltimore too. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on September 30, 2021, 10:43:30 PM

Give up 6 hits all game, 5 of them are HR.

Big opportunity blown tonight. Now the Jays will need a lot of luck over the weekend.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on September 30, 2021, 10:48:02 PM
Another game where the offense can’t finish.  1/10 with RISP.  A lot of passengers in the offensive side of the ball tonight

Watching Pearson throw absolute fire was a small consolation prize
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on October 01, 2021, 08:55:13 AM
Oh well. It was a nice run while it lasted.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on October 01, 2021, 09:53:05 AM

Give up 6 hits all game, 5 of them are HR.

Big opportunity blown tonight. Now the Jays will need a lot of luck over the weekend.

I was going to say NY scored I believe on every hit they had. I went to the game last night and I'm starting to think I'm cursed.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on October 01, 2021, 11:07:52 AM
I thought Gerrit Cole was supposed to be good…

I started hating baseball a little bit last night...but this morning I full-on hate it. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 01, 2021, 11:34:16 AM
Oh well. It was a nice run while it lasted.

I don’t think it’s over yet.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on October 01, 2021, 11:40:27 AM
Oh well. It was a nice run while it lasted.

I don’t think it’s over yet.

Not quite, but there's no more room for error.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on October 01, 2021, 02:10:40 PM
What drives me nuts is that all the bats get hot or go cold at once.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on October 01, 2021, 04:59:30 PM
Oh well. It was a nice run while it lasted.

I don’t think it’s over yet.

Oh it’s over. It’s nice that they’re not eliminated but they wastes their own chance on controlling their own destiny. It was a fun second half of the season, but it’s over.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on October 02, 2021, 04:34:57 PM
Yankees about to drop the first two to Tampa.
Jays up 7-1 in the bottom half of the 4th
Seattle lost 2-1 against The Angels

They still need an unlikely Boston loss against Washington or a Tampa sweep but they have a slightly better chance than they did yesterday
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on October 02, 2021, 05:33:15 PM
Yeah and all that just to end up in a 3 way tie no?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on October 02, 2021, 06:18:29 PM
Could even end up a 4-way tie, which would be something.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 03, 2021, 03:24:50 PM
My money is on the 4 way tie with the Jays winning through tomorrow and then winning the wild card then losing to the Rays.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on October 03, 2021, 04:22:40 PM
Boston gets one back 2-1 in the bottom of the 4th

Jays up big 9-1 heading into the 4th

New York-Tampa 0-0 through 4.5

Seattle trailing 4-2 in the 3rd

It’s still a long shot but this has been fun
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on October 03, 2021, 05:09:16 PM
5-1 Washington.

This is nuts.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 03, 2021, 05:09:42 PM
Red Sox down by 4 now in the 5th.

Yankees still tied at 0 in the 7th.

Seattle down by 4 in the 5th.

Jays up by 9 in the 5th.

Crazy final day.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Bender on October 03, 2021, 05:23:10 PM
So in any case if we & NYY win and the Sox/Mariners lose we still have to face Boston for the 2nd wildcard spot?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 03, 2021, 05:27:28 PM
 I think so… but I’d be much more comfortable if both could be losing to give us some breathing room against comebacks by the Red Sox

Preferably a Yankee loss cos that game should be over sooner

But itll probably go to extra innings.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 03, 2021, 05:55:28 PM
It’s all going wrong now
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on October 03, 2021, 06:13:02 PM
Yankees win, its all up to the nationals now.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 03, 2021, 06:15:54 PM
Yankees walk it off bottom of the 9th. If nationals could do something similar this could be a Netflix documentary in a few years.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 03, 2021, 06:35:46 PM
2 run home run for the Red Sox top of the 9th. Ugh.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on October 03, 2021, 06:36:11 PM
Oh good.  Toronto sports at it again.  Yankees walk off the bottom of the 9th because Tampa wants to pitch to Judge instead of pitching to the game.

Now Washington gives up a 2-run home run in the 9th to go down.

91 wins and you miss the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on October 03, 2021, 06:38:54 PM
Nice run while it lasted. Too bad the team will have wasted a pair of MVP plus Cy Young calibre performances.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on October 03, 2021, 06:41:32 PM

Boy the year it's been in Toronto sports.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Gerald The Duck on October 03, 2021, 06:42:28 PM
Yep unless the Nats can pull off a miracle that's that. Good run, a very fun season at times but it could've been so much more and the Jays have no one to blame but themselves.

There are obviously many games to look back on and wonder what if, but for me the one that hurt the most was the one versus Detroit (I believe), a month or more ago. The one where Semien botched a routine grounder that would've sealed the win, and the Jays lost in extras.

Either way, oh well.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on October 03, 2021, 06:45:18 PM
+183 run differential.  5th best in the league.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on October 03, 2021, 06:50:18 PM
Yep unless the Nats can pull off a miracle that's that. Good run, a very fun season at times but it could've been so much more and the Jays have no one to blame but themselves.

There are obviously many games to look back on and wonder what if, but for me the one that hurt the most was the one versus Detroit (I believe), a month or more ago. The one where Semien botched a routine grounder that would've sealed the win, and the Jays lost in extras.

Either way, oh well.

The Tyler Chatwood 5 walk game where they blew a 6-5 lead in the 7th of a double headed would be the one I flag.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on October 03, 2021, 06:52:17 PM
Bullpen definitely cost this team a playoff spot. Probably half a dozen games they could/should have won, but Dolis/Chatwood/etc., ended up blowing.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: azzurri63 on October 03, 2021, 07:37:10 PM
You can blame management for not making the playoffs. How many games did they blow midway through the season because of a crappy bullpen?
 Sure they tried addressing it but the pickups weren't of much help. Tons of young talent get rid of someone to address the bullpen. They blew so many games and to be honest it was better late in the year but every time Montoya went to the pen it always seemed to leave you in suspense.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on October 03, 2021, 07:38:47 PM
What an exciting season for the Blue Jays. I had a lot of fun watching them this year. Starting the season on a 99 game road trip must have been rough.

It's a shame they came up a game short, but I thought they had a great year under the circumstances.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on October 03, 2021, 08:37:23 PM
You can blame management for not making the playoffs. How many games did they blow midway through the season because of a crappy bullpen?
 Sure they tried addressing it but the pickups weren't of much help. Tons of young talent get rid of someone to address the bullpen. They blew so many games and to be honest it was better late in the year but every time Montoya went to the pen it always seemed to leave you in suspense.

This team at the start of the season was not a playoff contender. They needed some work still to get there. You need to calm down and look at this team in context. Absolutely no one predicted or even had an inkling that Ray would have even delivered half of what he did. That’s why he got a 1 year 8 mil contract. If anything management saw the potential and made some nice moves during the season.

And don’t discount that this team had no home field for 70% of the season. That’s not a trivial point. They were being booed in Buffalo and Tampa. The stands were filled with fans of opposing teams.

This was a successful season. A step in the right direction for a young core. This team is trending in the right direction.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on October 03, 2021, 09:02:09 PM
Bullpen definitely cost this team a playoff spot. Probably half a dozen games they could/should have won, but Dolis/Chatwood/etc., ended up blowing.

Yeah, but I bet the Yankees/Red Sox could say the same thing about games they could/should have won.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on October 03, 2021, 09:15:39 PM
Tons of young talent get rid of someone to address the bullpen.

Dealing a good young position player or starter for short term bullpen help is the definition of bad management. There are years beyond this year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Arn on October 04, 2021, 03:41:39 AM
Bullpen definitely cost this team a playoff spot. Probably half a dozen games they could/should have won, but Dolis/Chatwood/etc., ended up blowing.

Yeah, but I bet the Yankees/Red Sox could say the same thing about games they could/should have won.

Yeah, I don't think you can pick individual games at all. It's a 162 game season which kind of covers a lot of those oh so close games off. They should even out.

You can pick themes though - the bullpen being one. The signing of Yates as closer maybe another (or part of the same thing) etc.

But ultimately you had a season you wouldn't have expected from a bunch of guys most people didn't think were at 91 win stage yet.

You had 2 potential MVPs in Vlad Jr and Semien who had actual historically good seasons. You've had a Cy Young performance from a (almost but not really quite) reclamation starter you got on a cheap deal.

The expected ace in Ryu actually probably underperformed as well.

But what the core of the side has done is show management that they're there or there abouts, so it's time for management to back them I think.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on October 04, 2021, 09:23:56 AM
Bullpen definitely cost this team a playoff spot. Probably half a dozen games they could/should have won, but Dolis/Chatwood/etc., ended up blowing.

Yeah, but I bet the Yankees/Red Sox could say the same thing about games they could/should have won.

Sure, and that's a big part of why I don't want to single out individual games. Boston and New York didn't come in significantly below their expected W-L like the Jays did. The bullpen as a whole performed below the level of a playoff team for a big chunk of the season, and it cost the team a playoff spot.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on October 04, 2021, 11:55:19 AM
Sure, and that's a big part of why I don't want to single out individual games. Boston and New York didn't come in significantly below their expected W-L like the Jays did. The bullpen as a whole performed below the level of a playoff team for a big chunk of the season, and it cost the team a playoff spot.

Sure, but if you're one game out of a playoff spot then anything bad about your team more or less cost you a playoff spot. The Springer Injury, Ryu's bad year, not really solving things at 3rd base...

Likewise, if we look back at the actual home stretch it doesn't feel like it was their bullpen that cost them but a fairly inconsistent offense that, you know, put up 70 runs against the Orioles in 6 games and then struggled and sputtered against the Twins and Rays. To me that speaks to the wild run differential as much as a bad bullpen.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Frank E on October 04, 2021, 03:23:33 PM
I concur with the suggestion at sportsnet.ca that these Jays players will have a pretty good understanding now of why those early/mid season games are pretty important to win in the AL East.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 09, 2021, 07:53:32 PM

Vladdy Jr. won the AL Hank Aaron Award as the league's best offensive player. Nice to see him add some more hardware from an incredible season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 12, 2021, 01:37:17 PM

So I think it's clear right now that the Jays have 5 main issues for the off-season which I'll list in what I think are their relative importance:

1. Re-signing or replacing Semien
2. Re-signing or replacing Ray
3. Figuring out their 3B situation
4. Re-signing or replacing Matz
5. Rounding out the bullpen

There are other questions like who is the #5 SP and do they try to add a fulltime DH but I think that's the big stuff. Now, my preference for 1 and 2 would just be to re-sign Semien and Ray. 3B I feel like you can go cheap and try Espinal/Biggio for another year with the hopes that Groshans is ready soon or you can swing for the fences and try to land someone like Jose Ramirez by parting with more prospect depth. Matz I'm luke-warm on bringing back and think they could do better by trading Kirk somewhere for a #4.

Thoughts? Targets? Dream scenarios?
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on November 12, 2021, 02:26:05 PM
Would definitely love to hang on to Ray and Semien, but I doubt the Jays can retain both. I can see Ray sticking around, but I think Semien is heading back out west.

Scherzer would be a great add, but a pipe dream. Verlander on a short contract could also be interesting, and slightly less unrealistic - though still extremely unlikely. Bryant, Escobar, Baez, and Seager would also be high on my list for rounding out the infield. Maybe someone like Rodon or Gray to replace Matz? There's lots of middle of rotation arms out there, and the Jays need to land at least one of them.

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 12, 2021, 03:30:23 PM
Would definitely love to hang on to Ray and Semien, but I doubt the Jays can retain both. I can see Ray sticking around, but I think Semien is heading back out west.

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about Semien. I think the crazy good free agent crop at SS means that he'll be a lot of teams 3rd or 4th choice behind guys like Seager, Correa and Story. So if he wants to get a deal done before the CBA is settled he may want to go with wherever he's the 1st choice which may be a fairly limited group of teams.

Ray I think just comes down to $$$ and who's willing to gamble on his year being more than a fluke.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 15, 2021, 07:13:03 PM

Vladdy Jr. is more than 4 years younger than the AL Rookie of the Year.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Deebo on November 17, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
Ray wins the Cy Young, with 29/30 1st place votes.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on November 17, 2021, 06:40:27 PM
Ray wins the Cy Young, with 29/30 1st place votes.

Well deserved. Now, the Jays need to get him signed.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on November 17, 2021, 07:34:22 PM
Ray wins the Cy Young, with 29/30 1st place votes.

Well deserved. Now, the Jays need to get him signed.

I don’t know about need. I knows it’s not one vs the other but if they’re going to go nuts on a contract I’d rather they bid it with Semien.

Don’t get me wrong I hope they get both. But I think Ray over the next 5 years is not going to be the Ray we saw last season.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 17, 2021, 11:50:02 PM

To be honest, I don't think either guy is a "need" to be re-signed and I think in both cases you're risking paying a lot for career years. I think you need to effectively fill those gaps but I think there are interesting options out there at various price points.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on November 18, 2021, 08:15:58 AM
I don’t know about need. I knows it’s not one vs the other but if they’re going to go nuts on a contract I’d rather they bid it with Semien.

Don’t get me wrong I hope they get both. But I think Ray over the next 5 years is not going to be the Ray we saw last season.

I tend to prioritize front-on-the-rotation starters - especially for a team where offence won't be an issue, even with a downgrade from Semien to whoever (which could be somewhat mitigated with an upgrade at 3B) - and, even if Ray isn't Cy young calibre for the next 5 seasons, I'm not convinced he'll drop off enough for it to be a problem. The changes he made to his mechanics and his approach should be sustainable.

You can manage a downgrade at one position with smaller improvements at others, as there's 8 other guys in the lineup every game. Can't really do that effectively with starting pitching.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on November 18, 2021, 08:40:57 AM
The rotation is technically better for having a full season of Berrios and not starting the year with Tanner Roark.  That being said we are also banking on Manoah not taking a step back from being pretty phenomenal.  There is inevitably going to be some kind of adjustment to his pitching next year.   

They don't need to sign Ray but they do need another front end of the rotation starter.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 18, 2021, 10:11:03 AM
The rotation is technically better for having a full season of Berrios and not starting the year with Tanner Roark.  That being said we are also banking on Manoah not taking a step back from being pretty phenomenal. 

Maybe, but it also seems as though people are likewise writing off the possibility of Ryu coming back as a front-end guy. Berrios, Ryu and Manoah obviously wouldn't be ideal as a top 3 but I don't think it's fundamentally a tragedy either.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on November 18, 2021, 12:37:05 PM
And if Pearson can finally step up, I would like to keep Ray around.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on November 18, 2021, 01:04:59 PM
It's obviously still early in his career, but I'm getting more and more concerned that Pearson isn't cut out for a starting role at the MLB level.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on November 18, 2021, 02:24:53 PM
It's obviously still early in his career, but I'm getting more and more concerned that Pearson isn't cut out for a starting role at the MLB level.

He didn't show me anything that suggests he has the ability to transition to starter last year.  Not that he can't.  I'd give him every opportunity to show that he deserves to be a starter but I think they need to go into next year with Pearson slotted in as a multi-inning reliever next year.  I don't think you can go into the season with a flexible 5th starter.  If a spot opens up in the rotation its going to be due to injury or the season after when Ryu comes off the books.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on November 18, 2021, 07:43:06 PM

Not shockingly, Ohtani is the unanimous AL MVP with Vladdy Jr. in 2nd and Semien 3rd.

Vlad got 29 of 30 2nd place votes(one, I'm suspecting from a KC writer, went to Salvador Perez). Really a historic season that just had the bad luck of running into a season basically unlike anything we've ever seen in Baseball.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Highlander on December 09, 2021, 03:28:54 PM
Some concerning news, is rumoured that Pete Walker will be offered the Managers post with the Mets.
Hate to lose Pete, he has been a big part of turning pitchers around and getting the best out of everyone.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on December 09, 2021, 04:11:26 PM
Some concerning news, is rumoured that Pete Walker will be offered the Managers post with the Mets.
Hate to lose Pete, he has been a big part of turning pitchers around and getting the best out of everyone.

Yeah, I don't think this is particularly true. He's been reported as a candidate that the Mets are interested in but I haven't seen anything close to a credible rumour that he's definitely going to get offered the job.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on December 09, 2021, 04:17:19 PM
Some concerning news, is rumoured that Pete Walker will be offered the Managers post with the Mets.
Hate to lose Pete, he has been a big part of turning pitchers around and getting the best out of everyone.

Yeah, I don't think this is particularly true. He's been reported as a candidate that the Mets are interested in but I haven't seen anything close to a credible rumour that he's definitely going to get offered the job.

Pay him more. He's in charge of what $80m? of inventory. Get him paid. Less stress of not being the Manager. Easy peasy.
 
 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on December 09, 2021, 04:20:29 PM
Not to say thag this is true but I haven’t even heard if he’s interviewed for the job or that the Mets have even spoken to him. I think this is all based on a Morosi tweet that had no substance to it.

?s=20
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on December 09, 2021, 04:22:18 PM
Pay him more. He's in charge of what $80m? of inventory. Get him paid. Less stress of not being the Manager. Easy peasy.

If a guy wants to be a manager and you're not prepared to make him one I think it's generally understood that you'll let them take an offer. I think Walker has done a generally very good job and would like the Jays to keep him but I also don't think the guy is an irreplaceable miracle worker.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on December 14, 2021, 12:18:45 PM
Not to say thag this is true but I haven’t even heard if he’s interviewed for the job or that the Mets have even spoken to him. I think this is all based on a Morosi tweet that had no substance to it.

?s=20

If he was being considered, he's not anymore:

Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on December 14, 2021, 02:03:26 PM
Pay him more. He's in charge of what $80m? of inventory. Get him paid. Less stress of not being the Manager. Easy peasy.

If a guy wants to be a manager and you're not prepared to make him one I think it's generally understood that you'll let them take an offer. I think Walker has done a generally very good job and would like the Jays to keep him but I also don't think the guy is an irreplaceable miracle worker.

Irreplaceable miracle worker? No, of course not, he's just a cog in the machine but a guy that helps you build success. Is he as valuable to the club's success as Charlie Montoyo? I'd say he's more valuable.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on December 14, 2021, 02:27:04 PM
Irreplaceable miracle worker? No, of course not, he's just a cog in the machine but a guy that helps you build success. Is he as valuable to the club's success as Charlie Montoyo? I'd say he's more valuable.

Which is fair enough but if the way to keep him around is give him Montoyo's job you'd be removing him from doing the thing he's proven valuable at and asking him to do a wildly different job he may or may not be good at and have to replace him as pitching coach anyways.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Dappleganger on December 14, 2021, 02:37:58 PM
Irreplaceable miracle worker? No, of course not, he's just a cog in the machine but a guy that helps you build success. Is he as valuable to the club's success as Charlie Montoyo? I'd say he's more valuable.

Which is fair enough but if the way to keep him around is give him Montoyo's job you'd be removing him from doing the thing he's proven valuable at and asking him to do a wildly different job he may or may not be good at and have to replace him as pitching coach anyways.

No, no, no. Just pay him like a Manager as the Pitching coach.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on December 14, 2021, 02:50:35 PM
No, no, no. Just pay him like a Manager as the Pitching coach.

Right but you were responding to my post where I said "if he wants to be a Manager..." so I was going with that as the supposition for why he was interested in the Mets job as opposed to just money.

Although, as pointed out, this all seems to be moot as he doesn't appear to still be in the running(if he ever really was). Honestly though, as much as I like him as a Pitching coach I think the difference in how much you'd have to pay him and what he's worth vs. using that money on an actual baseball player and finding the next best pitching coach you can probably doesn't favour trying to outbid a New York team on a guy they want to manage(which, again, it seems like they don't).
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on December 14, 2021, 10:11:40 PM
Not to say thag this is true but I haven’t even heard if he’s interviewed for the job or that the Mets have even spoken to him. I think this is all based on a Morosi tweet that had no substance to it.

?s=20

If he was being considered, he's not anymore:



Showalter is the manager the Mets deserve.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Joe on December 18, 2021, 02:42:27 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1472277534339473417?t=Oj7gz9h9S1m7kV2s2aPviw&s=08

And so he is.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 11, 2022, 05:51:37 PM
Baseball writers are stupid.  60 of the vote is in and Ortiz is sitting at 83% to get into the hall of fame on his first ballot.  Either care about steroids or don’t. 
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 11, 2022, 07:55:59 PM
Baseball writers are stupid.  60 of the vote is in and Ortiz is sitting at 83% to get into the hall of fame on his first ballot.  Either care about steroids or don’t. 
But Ortiz is a nice guy..Bonds wasn't. The writers are a joke.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 15, 2022, 04:15:45 PM

International signing day today and the Jays big get seems to be this kid Luis Meza from Venezuela. The Jays had one of the lowest bonus pools for today and it looks like they're trying to sign a few guys instead of going all in for one of the top guys.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 17, 2022, 05:49:50 PM

Shoutout to Eminems Flores.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: L K on January 25, 2022, 07:49:33 PM
And it’s official MLB doesn’t tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz………………………….
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 08:01:26 PM
And it’s official MLB doesn’t tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz………………………….
Haha, what a joke. As far as I remember Bonds never tested positive for steroids did he? Ortiz did. Greatest home run hitter ever, nope..One of the greatest pitchers ever, nope. The all time leading hitter, nope. Like I said it's a joke.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 08:07:46 PM
And it’s official MLB doesn’t tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz………………………….
Haha, what a joke. As far as I remember Bonds never tested positive for steroids did he? Ortiz did. Greatest home run hitter ever, nope..One of the greatest pitchers ever, nope. The all time leading hitter, nope. Like I said it's a joke.

There are questions around the validity of the series of tests that Ortiz tested positive on. At least 10 of the 104 positive results were deemed to be false positives, but who they were was never released.

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/reporter-who-broke-ped-stories-defends-david-ortiz

Bonds and Clemens not getting in is stupid. I get making them wait - they were basically the poster boys for PEDs, and there are enough corroborating witnesses that the lack of a positive test doesn’t mean much (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all) - but that wait should have been 3-5 years, not 10+.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 08:18:16 PM
And it’s official MLB doesn’t tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz………………………….
Haha, what a joke. As far as I remember Bonds never tested positive for steroids did he? Ortiz did. Greatest home run hitter ever, nope..One of the greatest pitchers ever, nope. The all time leading hitter, nope. Like I said it's a joke.

There are questions around the validity of the series of tests that Ortiz tested positive on. At least 10 of the 104 positive results were deemed to be false positives, but who they were was never released.

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/reporter-who-broke-ped-stories-defends-david-ortiz

Bonds and Clemens not getting in is stupid. I get making them wait - they were basically the poster boys for PEDs, and there are enough corroborating witnesses that the lack of a positive test doesn’t mean much (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all) - but that wait should have been 3-5 years, not 10+.
If Binds retired before the steroid era, he still would have had a hall of fame career. Now their 10 year window is up the chances they ever get in is even smaller...sad because they did nothing wrong. Steroids wasn't tested for and you and I know that MLB knew exactly what was going on. Funny how all the other guys that used uppers and whatever is deemed ok.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 08:23:16 PM
Just because MLB didn’t care doesn’t mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Peter D. on January 25, 2022, 08:38:54 PM
Bonds is one of the greatest talents of all time and he doesn't get in. Ridiculous.

Steroids or not -- same applies to A-Rod -- he's still an all-time great.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 09:09:03 PM
Just because MLB didn’t care doesn’t mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.
Steroids aren't illegal if scribed by a doctor. Either way, they didn't break any of baseball's rules. This isn't about putting them in jail, this is about the Baseball HOF.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 26, 2022, 05:00:46 AM

I think the Bonds and Clemens cases are a little bit more complicated than the average accusations of PED use. Because if you're saying "Hey, they took steroids when it wasn't explicitly against the rules to gain a little edge, so what?" what you're really saying is that Bonds was almost certainly guilty of perjury in the BALCO case and Clemens was guilty of lying to Congress and both of those are pretty serious felonies. Toss in with Bonds accusations of domestic abuse and if keeping him out relies on the character clause then it's a little bit more than "he used steroids" which is the only thing that could even maybe be said about Ortiz.

I'm pretty agnostic on the larger issue. I'd have been fine if Bonds/Clemens got in, I'm fine that they're not in. I think Bonds, and specifically his chase of Aaron's record, did some real damage to Baseball and the inducted members wing of the HOF isn't the sum total of what the HOF is. In it's own way, keeping Clemens and Bonds out might even serve to augment their place in Baseball history in the same way that I feel like most people could tell you who Shoeless Joe Jackson was but would have no idea who Tris Speaker or Nap Lajoie were.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 26, 2022, 08:34:51 AM
Just because MLB didn’t care doesn’t mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.
Steroids aren't illegal if scribed by a doctor. Either way, they didn't break any of baseball's rules. This isn't about putting them in jail, this is about the Baseball HOF.

Firstly, they absolutely broke MLB rules when they used PEDs. The league just didn't care to enforce those rules stringently.

Secondly, if you're going to hold Ortiz accountable for a questionable PED test result (we don't know if he was one of the false positives, what substance he tested positive for, etc. - there's more questions than answers around much of the 2003 testing and the results have been destroyed) then you also have to hold Clemens and Bonds responsible for their more concrete ties to PEDs.
Title: Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nik on January 31, 2022, 11:57:15 AM

If Moreno/Martinez can become what people think and soonish this lineup has the potential to be absolutely ridiculous.

That said, it would be nice to have some OF/P prospects be well regarded.