#41

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by Bullfrog - September 22, 2023, 07:31:22 AM

I'm interested in seeing such talent up-and-down the lineup. However, I'm also a proponent of sticking with what's working. Nylander got 40 goals and 87 points in a particular position. I'd be tempted to stick with what works.

That said, we'd actually be pretty thin on a 3rd/4th line centre

#42

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by cw - September 22, 2023, 04:30:35 AM

Nylander, JT, Marner and Matthews on 3 separate lines means less icetime for at least one of these players which isn't a solution to anything, the idea of Austin and/or Nylander Pking is a great idea. No shot blocking, that's probably the least effective way to PK.   

If they're down a goal and going on the PK, Matthews and Marner, two of the teams leading shot blockers from last season, would not be a bad thought on the PK - to try to steal a goal back. Quinn did that effectively with Sundin & Mogilny. Apparently, Keefe is considering Matthews for some PK duty as they're a little thin in that area among the forwards. That would open up some ice time for Nylander/Tavares.

As well, there's no firm rule that a 3rd liner can't get spot duty elsewhere. The 9th forward could take a seat while someone gets an extra shift a period. If they're down later in the game, they'll shorten the bench trying to tie it up. If they're up, why burn out the star players?

Against teams with less depth, a more talented third line might exploit that more effectively. They can always revert to stacking two lines when the need arises. It has to make it more difficult to coach against.

I do not see the big harm looking at doing this beyond the early games when they're shaking it out.

#43

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by CarltonTheBear - September 21, 2023, 10:29:19 PM

the idea of Austin and/or Nylander Pking is a great idea. No shot blocking, that's probably the least effective way to PK.   

Anyone care to guess which forward led the entire league in shots blocked last season?

#44

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by hobarth - September 21, 2023, 05:18:08 PM

Nylander, JT, Marner and Matthews on 3 separate lines means less icetime for at least one of these players which isn't a solution to anything, the idea of Austin and/or Nylander Pking is a great idea. No shot blocking, that's probably the least effective way to PK.   

#45

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by OldTimeHockey - September 21, 2023, 03:59:50 PM

OK. I'll frame it another way. Do we think Tavares puts up 36 goals playing with Jarnkrok and whomever else is going to be on the 3rd line? Do we think Nylander puts up 40 with similar talent on his wings?

I get that Tavares is slowing and it may be time to have him on the wing. I'm not really fond of splitting them though.

I think it's worth pointing out that Tavares and Nylander weren't exactly that great together at 5-on-5 last season. Only 4 of Tavares' 36 goals came with Nylander on the ice at 5-on-5, and only 7 of Nylander's 40 goals came with Tavares as his C at 5-on-5. The majority of each of their individual success last season came either on the powerplay or when Nylander played with Matthews and Tavares with Marner. So splitting them up this season shouldn't really play a role in whether or not they repeat last season numbers because that's not why they did well to begin with.

In about 420 5-on-5 minutes last season the Leafs were actually outscored 18-23 with Nylander and Tavares on the ice. That's a per 60 goals rate of just 2.57. For comparison:

Tavares/Nylander: GF% of 43.90 and GF/60 of 2.57
Matthews/Marner: GF% of 62.26 and GF/60 of 3.67   
Matthews/Nylander: GF% of 73.08 and GF/60 of 4.52
Tavares/Marner: GF% of 65.96 and GF/60 if 3.38

These stats would suggest a) Matthews and Nylander should probably play together more and b) if they aren't going to play together then Nylander playing with Tavares probably shouldn't automatically be the next option.

I'll zip it now :)

#46

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by herman - September 21, 2023, 03:16:41 PM

I love that the team and everyone are talking up Willy; he had a monster season last year. I hope the C experiment largely sticks; Nylander is generally at his best when he's the top banana on his line getting lots of puck touches, rather than deferring to his centre. Second best shot on the team, best wheels and handling in transition, 1b or 2nd in passing vision/creativity, his hands in tight might rival Matthews' for second behind Tavares.

The super fun neat thing to remember is that Auston Matthews (a Maple Leaf for the next 5 years at least) still nearly outproduced Nylander in fewer games, with a couple of clear injuries hampering his goal scoring, playing a harder defensive matchup, in the worst goal scoring pace of his career aside from his rookie season.

The extra super fun neat thing is that we have both of them! and Mitch and John (once upon a time a 40G+ C too)

#47

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by herman - September 21, 2023, 02:54:40 PM

https://twitter.com/LeafsNews/status/1704925063298838837

#48

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by herman - September 21, 2023, 02:51:47 PM

https://twitter.com/Arunthings/status/1704937922988761594
Rinkside notes from Day 1

#49

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by Frank E - September 21, 2023, 02:00:58 PM

That's some good information there C.

#50

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2023 Training Camp Thread

Last post by CarltonTheBear - September 21, 2023, 01:54:21 PM

OK. I'll frame it another way. Do we think Tavares puts up 36 goals playing with Jarnkrok and whomever else is going to be on the 3rd line? Do we think Nylander puts up 40 with similar talent on his wings?

I get that Tavares is slowing and it may be time to have him on the wing. I'm not really fond of splitting them though.

I think it's worth pointing out that Tavares and Nylander weren't exactly that great together at 5-on-5 last season. Only 4 of Tavares' 36 goals came with Nylander on the ice at 5-on-5, and only 7 of Nylander's 40 goals came with Tavares as his C at 5-on-5. The majority of each of their individual success last season came either on the powerplay or when Nylander played with Matthews and Tavares with Marner. So splitting them up this season shouldn't really play a role in whether or not they repeat last season numbers because that's not why they did well to begin with.

In about 420 5-on-5 minutes last season the Leafs were actually outscored 18-23 with Nylander and Tavares on the ice. That's a per 60 goals rate of just 2.57. For comparison:

Tavares/Nylander: GF% of 43.90 and GF/60 of 2.57
Matthews/Marner: GF% of 62.26 and GF/60 of 3.67   
Matthews/Nylander: GF% of 73.08 and GF/60 of 4.52
Tavares/Marner: GF% of 65.96 and GF/60 if 3.38

These stats would suggest a) Matthews and Nylander should probably play together more and b) if they aren't going to play together then Nylander playing with Tavares probably shouldn't automatically be the next option.