#21

General NHL News & Views / Re: Kyle Dubas named Penguins ...

Last post by Nik - Yesterday at 09:54:33 AM

My point though is I think people can understand that circumstances can change, and people can change their mind, but saying what he said to the media, then negotiating in the manner he did made him look foolish and in a lot of ways led to his dismissal, so I can understand why people can feel sour about it.

We don't know how he negotiated. We have a lot of speculation, and post a messy break-up many, many sports teams have been known to plant stories via friendly sources in order to make their decision seem less stupid than it does on the surface.

What we do know is that Kyle Dubas was let go. Then, very shortly afterwards, he was snapped up and given a promotion from an organization that have been able to win cups since the first Prime Minister Trudeau.

#22

General NHL News & Views / Re: Kyle Dubas named Penguins ...

Last post by Nik - Yesterday at 09:49:21 AM

That was a very poor decision and it ended up costing him the most prestigious GM job in the business.

Wow. The Canadiens fired him too? Tough week for ol' Dubie.

#23

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Brad Treliving is new Leaf...

Last post by Rob - Yesterday at 09:43:09 AM

If nothing else Treliving certainly is a quote machine, and with a sense of self-deprecating humor.  I'm ultimately in this to have fun, so that's not nothing.

I've never heard Treliving speak before yesterday.  I did LOL a few times, so there is that.

#24

General NHL News & Views / Re: Kyle Dubas named Penguins ...

Last post by Arn - Yesterday at 09:40:24 AM

Shanahan maybe less so.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  Shanahan did what the MLSE board wanted him to do. 

Fair point.

#25

General NHL News & Views / Re: Kyle Dubas named Penguins ...

Last post by Rob - Yesterday at 09:30:05 AM

Shanahan maybe less so.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  Shanahan did what the MLSE board wanted him to do.  He approached the board for a Dubas extension last year, and was denied.  I think letting someone twist in the wind for a season can bread some resentment.  If what you have done up until this point isn't enough for your boss to extend your contract, what are you going to do in the upcoming year to sway them might put on some extra pressure. 

If the board approves an extension for Dubas last season, we obviously wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I think that was really the crux of the issue for Dubas.  I think it really stung not getting the extension done last summer.  His comments at the presser relating to it being a tough year for his family was in direct reference to that.  What was different about this year?  He never complained before that the season was rough on his family.  The only thing that really changed was his contract was expiring. 

We saw his ability to lose his emotional level headedness during the Tampa series.  For someone to doubt whether they want you or not, can not feel very good.  MLSE was in doubt last year whether they wanted Dubas or not as the GM  past the 202-2023 season. I think Dubas carried over that anger into his negotiations right up until that last email. 

His comments during that presser about he's not sure if he wants to continue as GM were akin to your significant other telling you they are not sure if they want to be with you anymore and they need a year to decide and you saying oh yeah!?!?!?!! Well I'm not sure I want to be with YOU!!!!!!

When you are a fan of one team, it's hard to cheer for anything good to happen to another team.  On a human level, Dubas has always presented himself as a class act, and I do like what he has done for the Leafs.  While the way things ended in Toronto seemed a little out of character for Dubas,  I wish him all the best.   

#26

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Brad Treliving is new Leaf...

Last post by Significantly Insignificant - Yesterday at 09:21:30 AM

First hire for Treliving, replacing the departed Spencer Carbury with Bruce Boudreau. 😎

I don't want Boudreau's career to end the way it did in Vancouver.

Certainly not the first time it's been suggested for Boudreau. Even before he was picked up by Vancouver there were calls to make him an assistant. I feel like Treliving would need to commit to Keefe with an extension first as well though. It would be a massive distraction and not fair to anyone if a possible Boudreau promotion was looming over Keefe all season long.

Having a very, very experienced AC could be a good thing for Keefe too. As far as I remember his assistants have generally been either somewhat new or very new to the NHL as well.

I'm certainly not against it if he is open to it.  I think Boudreau's career isn't exactly one that screams "coach to get a team to win a Cup" but as an assistant he would be an interesting guy to work with the offensive talents of the team.

I think regardless of whether Keefe is going to be here long term the Leafs should be extending him with a 1-2 year extension at least.  Having a lame duck coach just seems like a really bad idea given the current situation the Leafs are in (unless Matthews hates his guts and that would impact him signing a longer term extension and then I'd jettison him in a heartbeat).

Jaques Martin as an assistant to Sullivan in Pittsburgh worked out okay.

#27

General NHL News & Views / Re: Kyle Dubas named Penguins ...

Last post by Arn - Yesterday at 08:37:34 AM

I'm still struggling to see how this is bad optics for Toronto or Dubas. On one hand, you had a GM cast doubt on whether he wanted to continue which was then followed by an ask for lots of money. I look at that ask as a "well if I'm going to do it, I may as well swing for the fences" kind of ask. Dubas was well within his rights to do so. As was Toronto well within their rights to walk away from said request and the GM that had cast doubts in their minds.

Was Dubas' press conference pre firing well handled? Nope
Was Shanahan's handling of the situation following that done properly? Probably not

Is either of those really that much of a disaster to the point that there's been two weeks of media drama? I personally don't think so.

That's a bingo. At the time, I was considerably a lot more against Shanahan over what happened. Which shouldn't be all that surprising since I've openly been a supporter for Dubas since his first day in the organization.

I've cooled off a lot in the past 2 weeks. Worst thing I can say now is that I do believe the Leafs acted a little too hastily in deciding to fire him almost immediately after that new contract demand. I can't imagine there wasn't some middle ground that could have been found there. But it also sounds like that may have been a bit of an upstairs call, so whatever.

There's no villains in this story though, regardless of which way you look at it. It's unfortunate the way this era ended but life will go on in Leafland and Dubas will enjoy his new job in Pittsburgh.

This is one of the best summaries I've read about it, I think

Dubas, who Shanahan and the board declined to extend last offseason, spoke in a year-end presser about family difficulty, handling the pressure of the job and agonizing about whether or not to return. Ultimately Dubas decided he wanted to return and at that point, his agent presented Shanahan with a new offer.

In response, Shanahan and the MLSE board decided to fire Dubas instead — with Shanahan explaining the decision and revealing all of the gritty details in a remarkable, unnecessary press conference.

It's never a good sign for a leader in any field when their actions and comments can be eviscerated thoroughly in a half sentence the way Shanahan's were in a Dubas statement that noted only, "I will not get into the specifics of what I consider to be reasonable and consistent but private discussions." It was the professionalspeak equivalent of saying "Get a load of this guy."

With the events of Thursday now in the rearview mirror, we're left to wonder if Shanahan simply got outmaneuvered. If Dubas' heartfelt commentary was genuine, and I want to note that I believe it was, then Shanahan's reaction reads as uncaring and troublingly out of touch with the state of mind of his most senior hockey operations deputy. If Dubas' heartfelt commentary about his family situation was a cynical negotiating ploy, then Shanahan took the bait, self-destructed and all but gift-wrapped FSG's top candidate to them. Either formulation poses some really tricky questions.

Despite a concerning process, the outcome for Shanahan and the Leafs is a solid one. Treliving is a quality hire in any circumstances, but in these ones especially.

https://theathletic.com/4573985/2023/06/02/kyle-dubas-penguins-brad-treliving-maple-leafs-nhl-executive/

As the rest of that article suggests, I think Dubas Treviling, the Leafs and Penguins all actually come out of it alright.

Shanahan maybe less so.

#28

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Brad Treliving is new Leaf...

Last post by L K - Yesterday at 07:59:45 AM

First hire for Treliving, replacing the departed Spencer Carbury with Bruce Boudreau. 😎

I don't want Boudreau's career to end the way it did in Vancouver.

Certainly not the first time it's been suggested for Boudreau. Even before he was picked up by Vancouver there were calls to make him an assistant. I feel like Treliving would need to commit to Keefe with an extension first as well though. It would be a massive distraction and not fair to anyone if a possible Boudreau promotion was looming over Keefe all season long.

Having a very, very experienced AC could be a good thing for Keefe too. As far as I remember his assistants have generally been either somewhat new or very new to the NHL as well.

I'm certainly not against it if he is open to it.  I think Boudreau's career isn't exactly one that screams "coach to get a team to win a Cup" but as an assistant he would be an interesting guy to work with the offensive talents of the team.

I think regardless of whether Keefe is going to be here long term the Leafs should be extending him with a 1-2 year extension at least.  Having a lame duck coach just seems like a really bad idea given the current situation the Leafs are in (unless Matthews hates his guts and that would impact him signing a longer term extension and then I'd jettison him in a heartbeat).

#29

Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Brad Treliving is new Leaf...

Last post by CarltonTheBear - Yesterday at 07:51:06 AM

First hire for Treliving, replacing the departed Spencer Carbury with Bruce Boudreau. 😎

I don't want Boudreau's career to end the way it did in Vancouver.

Certainly not the first time it's been suggested for Boudreau. Even before he was picked up by Vancouver there were calls to make him an assistant. I feel like Treliving would need to commit to Keefe with an extension first as well though. It would be a massive distraction and not fair to anyone if a possible Boudreau promotion was looming over Keefe all season long.

Having a very, very experienced AC could be a good thing for Keefe too. As far as I remember his assistants have generally been either somewhat new or very new to the NHL as well.

#30

General NHL News & Views / Re: Kyle Dubas named Penguins ...

Last post by Arn - Yesterday at 07:50:52 AM

I wonder how much fun a Leafs v Penguins conference final could be next season...