For a player with a big question mark as far as elevating his game in the playoffs why do we have to pay him more than McD or MacK?

Because that is how finances work in sports.  Look at the NFL.  There is no better QB in the game than Mahomes, but every year, the QB that is up for renewal makes more, because inflation exists.

It's not about whose better when it gets to the financial situation.  This is their job.  I could see a comment from Matthews like "Hey you have to pay me more because I have to put up with unknown people saying derogatory things about me and questioning my desire to play this game on a nightly basis". 

MacKinnon is at 12.6M x 8

I see Matthews taking 13.4M min for 4 years so he can snag one more big contract upon that expiry when there is also more clarity about the cap going up. He'd be 31 at that time and probably 16-18M AAV at that point.

So great that we won't get a reasonable aav or term when most other teams seem to get it from their stars.

I think reasonable in either of those is relative to whether you focus on the negatives or the positives of the deal.  I think if the term is short that is great.  You don't know what state a player is going to be in after 8 years of hockey.  Even a player like Matthews can fall off.  You sign him for 4 years, see where he is at, and then assess.  Also, with the last deal being signed before he is 35, he can retire, and his cap comes off the books.  I actually think that shorter terms on deals are better, and it takes a player that is confident in their abilities to sign them.  It's the GM's problem to resign him.  Maybe the Leafs trade him in his early 30's. 

As for the AAV, what would Matthews get on the open market?  If he signs at 13.4 I think that is less than what he would get if he went to free agency, so that seems reasonable to me.  It depends on if you compare it to what he could get versus what you would like him to sign for.   

Negotiating with UFAs can't happen until July 1 except they have some sort of grace period now, I'm sure players like Austin are essentially signed before July 1.

July 1 is an opening for future UFAs to think about where they want to play next and know that if they don't sign anywhere(except Winterpeg) in NHL can be their home. 

I'm confused. Matthews isn't a UFA, so what relevance does July 1 have? He'll be an UFA on July 1, 2024. The team and Matthews can negotiate whenever the hell they want

No trade clause kicks in.

I want a GM that forechecks hard, clears the front of the net, and makes the timely save in a game.

I want a GM who gets up early, stays up late, with uninterrupted prosperity, and who uses a machete to cut through red tape.

I want a GM with a short cap debt and a long........playoff bracket.

I want a GM that forechecks hard, clears the front of the net, and makes the timely save in a game.

I don't know who they'll hire, but I think it's a pretty safe bet they won't be going off the board.  I kind of liked your suggestion, herman, but I don't see anything remotely like that happening.

Nope. And, as much as I get the desire for someone fresh and new, I think bringing in someone with experience but who hasn't been around since forever feels like the right balance - someone new enough that they're not super set in their ways, have a more modern approach to the game and players, etc., but experienced enough to know how to handle star players, the grind of an NHL season, and so on.

So a unicorn?

I guess Carolina need to sack their GM and trade their core players now.

Interestingly, the whole forward group (save Kotkaniemi) are on expiring deals this coming season.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/hurricanes

Svechnikov too.

Massive hypothetical here...

But say Shanahan and Dubas were both to take a sensible pill and Dubas was reinstated as GM. How would you feel about that?

Think I'd settle for that personally.

I think it would remind some of us olde timey fans of the time Roger Neilson was fired, then rehired, and asked to coach with a bag over his head.

[if accurate]

All the personnel decisions ended two months ago - at the deadline. Whatever thoughts he might have had on autonomy or the decision approval process should have been pretty well developed.  And Dubas couldn't figure that out until last Monday? Really?

This is just a hypothetical... but let's say there was a trade that Dubas felt would make the Leafs a better team at the deadline or before and one way or another it got blocked. Either through Shanahan directly saying no or due to time running out on a deal because of Toronto's current chain of command when it comes to big deals (Dubas -> Shanahan -> board -> back to Shanahan - > back to Dubas). Let's say Dubas is watching the Florida series and the entire time thinking "man, if I was able to acquire so and so he could have made a drastic difference in winning this series and potentially winning the Cup".

Would it not be at least somewhat reasonable for Dubas to think he's justified in attempting to re-open the "autonomy" conversation one last time post-elimination?

This is a pretty extreme hypothetical obviously but I do think it's not completely unreasonable for Dubas' thoughts on what his next contract should and should not include would change over the course of a playoff run. Just like it would be possible for the Leafs to have ignored their post-deadline contract talks with Dubas and just fired him if the Leafs got swept 4-0 in the first round. Nothing was set in stone at that point.

Dubas was paid millions of dollars for nearly five years as General Manager after being paid well to serve about four years as assistant GM. The part I'm having trouble with on the autonomy/decision making process complaint/concern (if accurate) is: "Why did you, Dubas, wait 4+5 years to raise the grievance?" If he answered "I was just following my contract", I'd fire him on the spot. No company has perfect procedures, job descriptions and employment contracts. The General Manager has the responsibility to sort out those issues and not wait 4+5 years to resolve them when his contract comes up. If that is what went down, I'd have zero sympathy for Dubas as it is a pretty clear cut dereliction of his duty.

If they had been in discussions for two months as Shanahan maintained and Dubas lobbed a 50% increase in pay last Thursday, I'd be put off by that too. Should have come much sooner.

As for Shanahan, I'm not too thrilled with him either. He needed to establish a date they needed a GM decision by so they had time to go through a hiring process. That date was somewhere close to shortly after the trade deadline. "We need a finalized contract with you, Kyle, by the middle of March. If not, we have to move on." Shanahan messed up too.

Just to echo this - having a drop dead date, and planning for the worst are two things that seem like huge gaps here. It's management 101 regardless of your industry. Shanahan lost all control of the situation without those things in place - and unless there's way more to the story than we're being told in terms of how far down the road they are in a GM search, I'd have some serious concerns about Shanahan's "plan" if I were his boss.

As a fan, it feels like we're back in sideshow land without a competent person at the wheel.

While this situation wasn't handled properly, I don't know if I would go as far as to call Shanahan incompetent.  He handled the transition from Lou to Dubas well in that he stood by what his original intentions were.  We all knew the intention was that Lou would mentor Dubas and then Dubas would take over.  Just because there were those that wanted the job that Dubas got, Shanahan still stood by his initial plan.

I think this got personal somewhere and that caused Shanahan and Dubas to act out of character.  Shanahan looks worse right now because he aired the dirty laundry and Dubas took more of a high road.

At the end of the day this was a mistake, but assuming that this organization is just going to keep on making mistakes because of this might be a bit premature.

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I hear you.  Not many hockey sites got people quoting John Maynard Keynes — and it's relevant, too, not just name-dropping to demonstrate you went to college.

Wait, you went to college?

I could somewhat understand the concern levels if Dubas like took his entire family on a 2-week vacation to Costa Rica to ponder his future or something, but the dude was back in the office working on Wednesday. That comment was way overblown.

It's just another example of how the fanbase creates problems for itself. Fans pay way too much attention to clean out the locker room day so if something is said that upsets them it's attached significance because they care so much about clean out the locker room day. Why would anyone care what gets said on that day if it doesn't then conform to anything that actually happens?

If I could be a relatively informed fan without knowing the GM's name it would make no difference to me. I'm a fan of the hockey team, not the corporate structure.

I'm not even a fan of the team.  I just love this forum, so I watch them so I can contribute.

I'm not really sure why everyone is getting all worked up.  Being the GM of the Leafs this summer is really straight forward.

1.  Ship Matthews and Marner to Chicago for the first overall pick and Seth Jones.
2.  Sign Matt Dumba, Nylander, Acciari, ROR, Kampf.
3.  Hire a coach that likes to win 1-0 games

Seems easy.

You know what is going to be bittersweet?  If the Leafs win the cup next year and everyone gives the new GM all the credit.

https://theathletic.com/4536147/2023/05/20/maple-leafs-kyle-dubas-brendan-shanahan/

As reported previously in the aftermath of the Leafs elimination, Shanahan and Dubas had been at odds for a while. On Friday, more details emerged on that front. Multiple sources close to the team said that Shanahan had blocked transactions that Dubas wanted to make at key points in the past several seasons, creating frustration in parts of the management group. Shanahan had also at times dictated certain moves he wanted made that Dubas didn't agree with.

The president, as per his place in the hierarchy, typically won out in those battles. And, in some cases, the moves that weren't made could have improved the Leafs' ability to advance further in the playoffs.

This is flipping damning if that is the case.  If Shanahan has been dictating moves/blocking moves this organization is screwed.  This whole situation blows. 

I think this is exactly what's going on.

Shanahan should have just named himself GM but of course that would involve taking the direct heat when moves don't work out.  Better to hide in the shadows and block moves and then blame the other guy.

One of the things though is that all the Toronto sports teams have set it up this way, and I think it's something that the teams that have money will do. 

Raptors have Webster and Ujiri, and the Blue Jays have Shapiro and Atkins.  The theory that I have heard is that you don't know who to really blame for the direction of the team, so you deflect criticism for moves that are suspect because you don't know who really made the decision. 

In the Leafs situation though, they probably didn't manage this part of that relationship properly, because the finger was squarely pointed at Dubas for the last year and that was probably in part because of his contract.  Or maybe it's because the Leafs are just more of a focal point in Toronto than the Raptors or Blue Jays, but it seems this particular dual headed monster approach failed. 

Dubas is a new school leader that cares about people, and believes that by focusing on the people that are a part of your team, and enabling them, that you will reach success.  The how you achieve success matters more than if you achieve success.  Some times that doesn't fly in large organizations that just want results.

I do think that given his success at the AHL level, with winning the cup there, that if Dubas had a vision on how he wanted to construct this team, and Shanahan influenced that, then that might have played a part in the Leafs success in the playoffs.