Author Topic: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier  (Read 13829 times)

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Offline RedLeaf

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Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« on: September 30, 2014, 12:08:08 PM »
I think most fans are of the opinion that the goaltending 'showdown' is officially over. This article just add more ammunition to that argument...

(Some nice graphics too)

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/why-bernier-is-maple-leafs-best-bet-in-goal/
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:10:06 PM by RedLeaf »
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.." --Isaac Asimov.

Offline freer

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 01:02:28 PM »
I think that the boat has sailed on this debate.

Offline Zee

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 02:02:16 PM »
Those colourful charts dazzled me.

Offline freer

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 02:16:22 PM »
Those colourful charts dazzled me.
yeap, insightful

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 02:34:50 PM »
Quote
@draglikepull 
Here's why I still think it's a decent bet that Reimer's better than Bernier: Until last season, Reimer's EV SV% was .926. Bernier's - .920

@draglikepull 
Add in last season, and Reimer's still at .926. Bernier leaps up to match him at .926.

@draglikepull
I'm always skeptical of a goalie whose career numbers take a big jump based on one outstanding season.

@draglikepull
Here's a @BSH_EricT post on how EV SV% has (slightly) better predictive value than overall SV%: http://t.co/EbHIcId4yA

It's good to have two very good goalies.

Offline Peter D.

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 02:45:50 PM »
I think the conversation should be well beyond the point of pitting one against the other and should strictly now be about the greater good of the team.

Last year Bernier stumbles a bit, the hardcore Reimer fans are out in full force slagging him.  Reimer has a bad stretch, and the anti-Reimer fans want him out of town as quick as possible.  It's obvious Bernier is the anointed one and will be given the bulk of the starts (and rightfully so).

But no need to crap on Reimer, who's been a good soldier for the team.  This tandem gives the Leafs IMO one of the best goaltending duos in the game.  If Bernier gets hurt, we know that Reimer is more than an adequate replacement as a starting goalie.  They supposedly have a good relationship, and that's all that can be asked for.  Two goalies upping their game battling for playing time should only be viewed as a good thing.  I just hope Reimer embraces the role more than he did last year and his head is on straighter (which I don't doubt it will be).

Offline Boston Leaf

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 03:12:59 PM »
I think the conversation should be well beyond the point of pitting one against the other and should strictly now be about the greater good of the team.

Last year Bernier stumbles a bit, the hardcore Reimer fans are out in full force slagging him.  Reimer has a bad stretch, and the anti-Reimer fans want him out of town as quick as possible.  It's obvious Bernier is the anointed one and will be given the bulk of the starts (and rightfully so).

But no need to crap on Reimer, who's been a good soldier for the team.  This tandem gives the Leafs IMO one of the best goaltending duos in the game.  If Bernier gets hurt, we know that Reimer is more than an adequate replacement as a starting goalie.  They supposedly have a good relationship, and that's all that can be asked for.  Two goalies upping their game battling for playing time should only be viewed as a good thing.  I just hope Reimer embraces the role more than he did last year and his head is on straighter (which I don't doubt it will be).

I agree 100% with this

Offline Highlander

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 05:20:49 PM »
I am probably completely wrong on this but my feeling is Reimer will not last past the first trade deadline especially if he shows a few good games, some other team will need someone due to injury and we will get a decent prospect or draft pick and Bibeau will come in to back up. Reimer will not work as a back up who only gets in once every 5 games.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 05:35:35 PM »
I am probably completely wrong on this but my feeling is Reimer will not last past the first trade deadline especially if he shows a few good games, some other team will need someone due to injury and we will get a decent prospect or draft pick and Bibeau will come in to back up. Reimer will not work as a back up who only gets in once every 5 games.

Bibeau will not be coming up as the backup, regardless of what happens with Reimer. If Reimer is traded in season, the Leafs will almost certainly be acquiring the other team's backup as part of the deal.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline L K

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 07:29:13 PM »
I think people need to be reminded of Antoine Bibeau's QMJHL numbers:

Regular  48GP 3.17 GAA .907 SV%
Playoffs  24GP 2.80 GAA .913 SV%
Career  156GP 3.17 GAA .903 SV%

He looked good in the playoffs for stretches and had a decent preseason but people are jumping on this "he's awesome" horse way too early.

Offline Nik

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 07:59:04 PM »
I think people need to be reminded of Antoine Bibeau's QMJHL numbers:

Regular  48GP 3.17 GAA .907 SV%
Playoffs  24GP 2.80 GAA .913 SV%
Career  156GP 3.17 GAA .903 SV%

He looked good in the playoffs for stretches and had a decent preseason but people are jumping on this "he's awesome" horse way too early.

The Q is a scorer's league though. Bernier's best sv% in his time there was .909. Luongo's best was .903. MA Fleury's best, over a full season, was .915 and he wound up the #1 pick in the draft.

Junior numbers are always hard to parse but goalie numbers from the QMJHL? I don't think they're super-helpful.
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Offline Potvin29

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 07:59:21 PM »
I think people need to be reminded of Antoine Bibeau's QMJHL numbers:

Regular  48GP 3.17 GAA .907 SV%
Playoffs  24GP 2.80 GAA .913 SV%
Career  156GP 3.17 GAA .903 SV%

He looked good in the playoffs for stretches and had a decent preseason but people are jumping on this "he's awesome" horse way too early.

This is obviously not thorough, but just clicking through some of the top goalies by SV% in the Q last season and through some of the ones from the Q drafted ahead of Bibeau, none of them have career Q SV%'s high than the .900-.905 range. 

Goalie stats in Jr. I find can be deceiving.

Offline L K

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 08:09:41 PM »
I think people need to be reminded of Antoine Bibeau's QMJHL numbers:

Regular  48GP 3.17 GAA .907 SV%
Playoffs  24GP 2.80 GAA .913 SV%
Career  156GP 3.17 GAA .903 SV%

He looked good in the playoffs for stretches and had a decent preseason but people are jumping on this "he's awesome" horse way too early.

The Q is a scorer's league though. Bernier's best sv% in his time there was .909. Luongo's best was .903. MA Fleury's best, over a full season, was .915 and he wound up the #1 pick in the draft.

Junior numbers are always hard to parse but goalie numbers from the QMJHL? I don't think they're super-helpful.

Certainly, just trying to point out that he isn't a super generational talent goaltender and a few decent preseason performances in no way makes him NHL ready.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2014, 08:48:42 PM »
Certainly, just trying to point out that he isn't a super generational talent goaltender and a few decent preseason performances in no way makes him NHL ready.

And there's no way the team is going to use a promising prospect as the backup goaltender in his first professional season. Heck, this might not even be his first pro season. He could still go back to junior.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik

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Re: Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 09:06:40 PM »
Certainly, just trying to point out that he isn't a super generational talent goaltender and a few decent preseason performances in no way makes him NHL ready.

I agree. I just sometimes wonder if the high scoring in the Q doesn't sort of obscure things when it comes to their goaltending prospects as opposed to leagues where the scoring rate is closer to the NHL average.
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