Author Topic: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590  (Read 3349 times)

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Online OldTimeHockey

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #225 on: January 25, 2021, 12:21:04 PM »
Re Vesey - he's fine. I don't think he's bad enough to put out of the lineup. But at the same time I'm not sure he's good enough to be a long term regular. But he's the kind of guy and contract we need. He strikes me as the kind of guy who might get you 5 goals in 12 games then go 20 games without a goal, then another 4 in 13 games kinda thing.
Sorry Arn, I don't agree with Vesey being fine. 2 empty net goals in 7 games playing mainly on the top line with the easiest matchup isn't good. I don't find him to be a good passer or shooter and plays tend to die on his stick much like they did with Hyman his first couple of years. Difference there though was Hyman works his butt off in other areas. I'm hoping he can start doing something but I don't see him being anything more then a 3rd liner at best. I'd like to see Keefe give Mikheyev or Engvall a shot on a top line to see if they can do better and put him with Kerfoot in checking role.

Is Vesey good? I think he's what Arn called it: fine. Just fine.

Is Engvall or Mikheyev better? In many areas of the game: speed, puck handling, defensive accumen, not falling.

But the one thing Vesey does better is be there to put the actual puck in the net, historically speaking, not just this season's gifts from Willy. So early in the season, I'm okay trying him out to see if chemistry can build up up top. I certainly don't want Vesey trying to do Mikheyev's role as that'd be a downer on offense up top and a downer on defense lower in the lineup.

One thing to keep in mind is Mikheyev was on pace for 16 or 17 goals last season which is Vesey's high. He was also on pace to exceed Vesey's career high in points.

Vesey, as you've said, is "fine". But he doesn't bring a tonne to the table that Engvall and Mikheyev don't IMO

That may be the case, but Vesey is also only $900K against the cap, whereas Engvall is $1.2 and Mikeyev $1.645.

Those numbers are going to play a factor in the short term.

Yes, that's a very good point.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #226 on: January 25, 2021, 12:21:55 PM »
I don't think you need to convince Keefe that Mikheyev is better than Vesey. He knows. Mikheyev is on the 3rd line because Kerfoot needs him to have a successful line more than Matthews/Marner or Tavares/Nylander do.

Online Bullfrog

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #227 on: January 25, 2021, 12:32:03 PM »
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Offline Highlander

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #228 on: January 25, 2021, 12:32:29 PM »
Re Vesey - he's fine. I don't think he's bad enough to put out of the lineup. But at the same time I'm not sure he's good enough to be a long term regular. But he's the kind of guy and contract we need. He strikes me as the kind of guy who might get you 5 goals in 12 games then go 20 games without a goal, then another 4 in 13 games kinda thing.
Sorry Arn, I don't agree with Vesey being fine. 2 empty net goals in 7 games playing mainly on the top line with the easiest matchup isn't good. I don't find him to be a good passer or shooter and plays tend to die on his stick much like they did with Hyman his first couple of years. Difference there though was Hyman works his butt off in other areas. I'm hoping he can start doing something but I don't see him being anything more then a 3rd liner at best. I'd like to see Keefe give Mikheyev or Engvall a shot on a top line to see if they can do better and put him with Kerfoot in checking role.

Is Vesey good? I think he's what Arn called it: fine. Just fine.

Is Engvall or Mikheyev better? In many areas of the game: speed, puck handling, defensive accumen, not falling.

But the one thing Vesey does better is be there to put the actual puck in the net, historically speaking, not just this season's gifts from Willy. So early in the season, I'm okay trying him out to see if chemistry can build up up top. I certainly don't want Vesey trying to do Mikheyev's role as that'd be a downer on offense up top and a downer on defense lower in the lineup.

One thing to keep in mind is Mikheyev was on pace for 16 or 17 goals last season which is just below Vesey's high. He was also on pace to exceed Vesey's career high in points.

Vesey, as you've said, is "fine". But he doesn't bring a tonne to the table that Engvall and Mikheyev don't IMO
I am still waiting for Vesey to play like his hair is on fire?  Anyone got some lighter fluid?
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Online OldTimeHockey

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #229 on: January 25, 2021, 12:55:15 PM »
I don't think you need to convince Keefe that Mikheyev is better than Vesey. He knows. Mikheyev is on the 3rd line because Kerfoot needs him to have a successful line more than Matthews/Marner or Tavares/Nylander do.

I agree. I don't disagree with trying to spread the wealth a little. I find Vesey doesn't have enough jam to go get the puck. I'd be tempted to put Barbanov up with Tavares and Nylander and dropping Vesey to the 4th line with some PP time.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #230 on: January 25, 2021, 01:00:47 PM »
I don't think you need to convince Keefe that Mikheyev is better than Vesey. He knows. Mikheyev is on the 3rd line because Kerfoot needs him to have a successful line more than Matthews/Marner or Tavares/Nylander do.

I agree. I don't disagree with trying to spread the wealth a little. I find Vesey doesn't have enough jam to go get the puck. I'd be tempted to put Barbanov up with Tavares and Nylander and dropping Vesey to the 4th line with some PP time.

Yeah, so far Barbanov's kinda looking like a guy who isn't doing much to stay in the line-up. The big caveat there is his minutes have been incredibly small. I wouldn't be opposed to trying him in Vesey's spot for a handful of games, just to see if there's anything there.

Same goes for Lehtonen on the bottom pair, he needs to eventually get some consistent minutes.

Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #231 on: January 25, 2021, 01:07:49 PM »
Re Vesey - he's fine. I don't think he's bad enough to put out of the lineup. But at the same time I'm not sure he's good enough to be a long term regular. But he's the kind of guy and contract we need. He strikes me as the kind of guy who might get you 5 goals in 12 games then go 20 games without a goal, then another 4 in 13 games kinda thing.
Sorry Arn, I don't agree with Vesey being fine. 2 empty net goals in 7 games playing mainly on the top line with the easiest matchup isn't good. I don't find him to be a good passer or shooter and plays tend to die on his stick much like they did with Hyman his first couple of years. Difference there though was Hyman works his butt off in other areas. I'm hoping he can start doing something but I don't see him being anything more then a 3rd liner at best. I'd like to see Keefe give Mikheyev or Engvall a shot on a top line to see if they can do better and put him with Kerfoot in checking role.

Is Vesey good? I think he's what Arn called it: fine. Just fine.

Is Engvall or Mikheyev better? In many areas of the game: speed, puck handling, defensive accumen, not falling.

But the one thing Vesey does better is be there to put the actual puck in the net, historically speaking, not just this season's gifts from Willy. So early in the season, I'm okay trying him out to see if chemistry can build up up top. I certainly don't want Vesey trying to do Mikheyev's role as that'd be a downer on offense up top and a downer on defense lower in the lineup.

One thing to keep in mind is Mikheyev was on pace for 16 or 17 goals last season which is Vesey's high. He was also on pace to exceed Vesey's career high in points.

Vesey, as you've said, is "fine". But he doesn't bring a tonne to the table that Engvall and Mikheyev don't IMO

That may be the case, but Vesey is also only $900K against the cap, whereas Engvall is $1.2 and Mikeyev $1.645.

Those numbers are going to play a factor in the short term.
With Thornton and Robertson on LTIR the Leafs can carry all of Lehtonen, Barabanov and Engvall. That means they can sit Vesey if they choose. They have the room to do it now because all of them are also waiver exempt.

Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #232 on: January 25, 2021, 01:09:36 PM »
I don't think you need to convince Keefe that Mikheyev is better than Vesey. He knows. Mikheyev is on the 3rd line because Kerfoot needs him to have a successful line more than Matthews/Marner or Tavares/Nylander do.

I agree. I don't disagree with trying to spread the wealth a little. I find Vesey doesn't have enough jam to go get the puck. I'd be tempted to put Barbanov up with Tavares and Nylander and dropping Vesey to the 4th line with some PP time.

Yeah, so far Barbanov's kinda looking like a guy who isn't doing much to stay in the line-up. The big caveat there is his minutes have been incredibly small. I wouldn't be opposed to trying him in Vesey's spot for a handful of games, just to see if there's anything there.

Same goes for Lehtonen on the bottom pair, he needs to eventually get some consistent minutes.
Agree, I'd like to see both get a chance.

Offline Chris

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #233 on: January 25, 2021, 03:15:03 PM »
Vesey...a big fat MEH. I asked a couple of games ago if there's anything he does well and of course, he promptly was gifted an open net by Nylander. At least he was able to put it in the net, so I guess on that count he would rate above a former Leaf named Leo.

Otherwise, though...he really accomplishes very little. Not fast, not physical, not effective along the boards or in transition. If he stays on one of the top 2 lines he'll probably get 10-12 goals just because. But does his presence drag down his linemates overall? That's a tough one to quantify but my impression is yes, it does.

I understand the Leafs lack forward depth (good depth, anyway) and if you put Mikheyev (or Engvall) on one of the top 2 lines then the third line may suffer. So maybe Vesey in the top 6 is something we just have to deal with for now. I do agree with those who are suggesting Barabanov get a chance higher in the lineup. He could be a guy who can't accomplish much with 5-8 minutes on the 4th line but who could mesh well with a scoring line.

Online herman

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #234 on: January 25, 2021, 05:01:44 PM »
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Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #235 on: January 25, 2021, 05:43:02 PM »

Not reading anything into it. Until Hutch has to go in net, I'm not worried about it.....much lol

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #236 on: January 25, 2021, 06:18:20 PM »
Keefe says Spezza is getting an off day for tomorrow. We could see Boyd or Anderson draw in. Or Lehtonen for 11/7 again.

Spezza makes more money on the Taxi Squad lol
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Offline Bender

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #237 on: January 25, 2021, 10:25:45 PM »
Vesey...a big fat MEH. I asked a couple of games ago if there's anything he does well and of course, he promptly was gifted an open net by Nylander. At least he was able to put it in the net, so I guess on that count he would rate above a former Leaf named Leo.

Otherwise, though...he really accomplishes very little. Not fast, not physical, not effective along the boards or in transition. If he stays on one of the top 2 lines he'll probably get 10-12 goals just because. But does his presence drag down his linemates overall? That's a tough one to quantify but my impression is yes, it does.

I understand the Leafs lack forward depth (good depth, anyway) and if you put Mikheyev (or Engvall) on one of the top 2 lines then the third line may suffer. So maybe Vesey in the top 6 is something we just have to deal with for now. I do agree with those who are suggesting Barabanov get a chance higher in the lineup. He could be a guy who can't accomplish much with 5-8 minutes on the 4th line but who could mesh well with a scoring line.
I really don't see how underwhelming a dude for $700k could possibly be.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #238 on: January 26, 2021, 12:27:08 AM »
Vesey...a big fat MEH. I asked a couple of games ago if there's anything he does well and of course, he promptly was gifted an open net by Nylander. At least he was able to put it in the net, so I guess on that count he would rate above a former Leaf named Leo.

Otherwise, though...he really accomplishes very little. Not fast, not physical, not effective along the boards or in transition. If he stays on one of the top 2 lines he'll probably get 10-12 goals just because. But does his presence drag down his linemates overall? That's a tough one to quantify but my impression is yes, it does.

I understand the Leafs lack forward depth (good depth, anyway) and if you put Mikheyev (or Engvall) on one of the top 2 lines then the third line may suffer. So maybe Vesey in the top 6 is something we just have to deal with for now. I do agree with those who are suggesting Barabanov get a chance higher in the lineup. He could be a guy who can't accomplish much with 5-8 minutes on the 4th line but who could mesh well with a scoring line.
I really don't see how underwhelming a dude for $700k could possibly be.
Have  you watched him play? It's not that he is "underwhelming for $700k" (and actually I think it's $900k) as much as he is underwhelming for someone playing on the top 2 lines.

Vesey on line 3 or 4 for $700 or $900k, fine. On line 1 or 2...not so much.

Maybe over time he'll prove me wrong but I'm not seeing much to suggest he will.

Offline Nik

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Re: Leafs @ Flames - Jan. 24th, 4:00pm - SNO, Fan 590
« Reply #239 on: January 26, 2021, 06:46:02 AM »
Have  you watched him play? It's not that he is "underwhelming for $700k" (and actually I think it's $900k) as much as he is underwhelming for someone playing on the top 2 lines.

I think it's probably a safe assumption that all of us here have watched the Leafs this season.

Beyond that, the point remains. Of course Vesey was going to be "underwhelming for someone playing on the top 2 lines". You'd have to have been delusional to have seen Vesey get signed in the off-season to a sub 1 million dollar deal and have thought "This guy's going to do a really good job as a top 6 forward" because if that was a reasonable expectation he wouldn't have been available for that little.

The Leafs have some options to rotate through that spot from guys we've seen a lot of like Engvall to guys we haven't seen much of like Barabanov and even eventually someone like Robertson who's got a lot of potential and saying that rotating those guys in the spot in finding someone with better chemistry might be a good tactic but realistically nobody the Leafs slot in there is going to be an above-average or even an average top 6 forward.

At best you might get a guy like Mikheyev take a step forward and fill that role but even then you're almost certainly talking about a near zero sum game as bumping him up a line and whoever else down a line is really just going to be someone slightly better getting a couple extra minutes a game.
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