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2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread

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bustaheims:
Just because MLB didn’t care doesn’t mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.

Peter D.:
Bonds is one of the greatest talents of all time and he doesn't get in. Ridiculous.

Steroids or not -- same applies to A-Rod -- he's still an all-time great.

Guilt Trip:

--- Quote from: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 08:23:16 PM ---Just because MLB didn’t care doesn’t mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.

--- End quote ---
Steroids aren't illegal if scribed by a doctor. Either way, they didn't break any of baseball's rules. This isn't about putting them in jail, this is about the Baseball HOF.

Nik:

I think the Bonds and Clemens cases are a little bit more complicated than the average accusations of PED use. Because if you're saying "Hey, they took steroids when it wasn't explicitly against the rules to gain a little edge, so what?" what you're really saying is that Bonds was almost certainly guilty of perjury in the BALCO case and Clemens was guilty of lying to Congress and both of those are pretty serious felonies. Toss in with Bonds accusations of domestic abuse and if keeping him out relies on the character clause then it's a little bit more than "he used steroids" which is the only thing that could even maybe be said about Ortiz.

I'm pretty agnostic on the larger issue. I'd have been fine if Bonds/Clemens got in, I'm fine that they're not in. I think Bonds, and specifically his chase of Aaron's record, did some real damage to Baseball and the inducted members wing of the HOF isn't the sum total of what the HOF is. In it's own way, keeping Clemens and Bonds out might even serve to augment their place in Baseball history in the same way that I feel like most people could tell you who Shoeless Joe Jackson was but would have no idea who Tris Speaker or Nap Lajoie were.

bustaheims:

--- Quote from: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 09:09:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 08:23:16 PM ---Just because MLB didn’t care doesn’t mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.

--- End quote ---
Steroids aren't illegal if scribed by a doctor. Either way, they didn't break any of baseball's rules. This isn't about putting them in jail, this is about the Baseball HOF.

--- End quote ---

Firstly, they absolutely broke MLB rules when they used PEDs. The league just didn't care to enforce those rules stringently.

Secondly, if you're going to hold Ortiz accountable for a questionable PED test result (we don't know if he was one of the false positives, what substance he tested positive for, etc. - there's more questions than answers around much of the 2003 testing and the results have been destroyed) then you also have to hold Clemens and Bonds responsible for their more concrete ties to PEDs.

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