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Other Hockey News & Views => General NHL News & Views => Topic started by: L K on June 17, 2021, 01:48:08 PM

Title: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on June 17, 2021, 01:48:08 PM
https://www.tsn.ca/chicago-blackhawks-alleged-sex-abuse-of-players-police-1.1656229 (https://www.tsn.ca/chicago-blackhawks-alleged-sex-abuse-of-players-police-1.1656229)

Ummmm WTF??
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 24, 2021, 09:33:27 AM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on June 24, 2021, 11:09:09 AM
I honestly don’t know why this isn’t getting more traction as a huge story.  This potentially involves some pretty fricking huge names in hockey….three current GMs, Joel Quenneville among others who have no excuse not to have known about this and done nothing
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 24, 2021, 12:05:55 PM
I honestly don’t know why this isn’t getting more traction as a huge story.  This potentially involves some pretty fricking huge names in hockey….three current GMs, Joel Quenneville among others who have no excuse not to have known about this and done nothing

Quote
The alleged sexual assault of two former Chicago Blackhawks players was “an open secret” among staff both within and outside the team’s hockey department, a former team marketing official said in an interview with TSN.

The official said he was told by Blackhawks assistant trainer Jeff Thomas during the summer of 2010 that then-team video coach Brad Aldrich had allegedly sexually assaulted two players. The official asked for anonymity because he still works in the pro hockey industry and fears repercussions from the National Hockey League.

That sort of says it all... and this with players as the victims, i.e. a position of relative power within the hockey ecosystem. Consider all the other people in an organization/venue who might cross paths who the hockey media would care even less about.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 25, 2021, 09:29:39 AM
Quote
“Every guy on the team knew about it,” one player on the 2010 team told The Athletic. “Every single guy on the team knew.”

[...]

The former player who spoke with The Athletic, who was not one of the two players who disclosed Aldrich’s alleged assault to Vincent, said he recently Googled the official team photo from the morning of the parade, and sure enough, Aldrich is in it.

“That doesn’t bother me, that they let him take pictures with the Cup,” the 2010 Blackhawks player said. “What bothers me is they fired him, but they didn’t take it to the cops. … They let him get a job with a U-18 team. They let him go work with minors. They let this happen.”
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 25, 2021, 07:15:32 PM
Westhead casting some very overt side-eye to his colleagues.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 26, 2021, 02:45:40 PM
Original breaking story
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 26, 2021, 04:49:30 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 28, 2021, 11:11:59 AM
Yeeeeeeeeesssh
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on June 28, 2021, 11:21:27 AM
Yeah, that last one really paints what could have been the right move in a less positive light. Maybe don't hire the firm who defended the perpetrators in one of the worst sexual assault cases in U.S. history to investigate your own internal sexual assault allegations.

Investigation? Good! Definitely needed (even if it's coming years later than it should have). The investigators? Surely, you could have found someone with less of a stink on them.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 28, 2021, 11:39:41 AM
This is technically a clarification that it was the law firm that handled the bankruptcy claim filed as a result of a system-condoned sex assault scandal, not that they defended Nassar. This is still absolutely stepping on a rake, PR-wise. Just firing it straight into their own net, top cheddar.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on June 28, 2021, 11:45:02 AM

I don't know that who they hired matters much. Just about anyone they hire would be a big corporate law firm who will only dig as deep as the Blackhawks ultimately want them to and I don't think any of us expect any sort of actual accountability here.

Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on June 28, 2021, 03:25:22 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on July 14, 2021, 06:36:51 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 15, 2021, 09:30:28 AM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on July 15, 2021, 09:43:51 AM

The thing I still don't really get about this story is why would the Blackhawks risk all this for a not particularly well connected video coach or whatever he was. Like, that to me is almost the most damning statement about the organization and hockey culture here. Either they had their own serious malfeasance to cover up or they were just willing to cover up any allegation against anyone even remotely connected with the team.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on July 15, 2021, 10:41:40 AM

The thing I still don't really get about this story is why would the Blackhawks risk all this for a not particularly well connected video coach or whatever he was. Like, that to me is almost the most damning statement about the organization and hockey culture here. Either they had their own serious malfeasance to cover up or they were just willing to cover up any allegation against anyone even remotely connected with the team.

I mean why did David Frost last as long as he did.   

I think hockey has a problem that a lot of industries have...that sex assault isn't taken seriously.  That getting an assault out in the open "looks bad for the game" while ignoring that covering it up and having it come out later would be worse.

Look at how the story is getting handled over the last few months.  The story comes out...radio silence from the NHL media.  It starts to come out in trickles but even still, extremely little major media discussion on this. 

This has some of the biggest executive names in hockey with 3 GMs and one of the best coaches in the game in positions that are either incompetent for not knowing what went on or are outright lying about it now.  There is a zero percent chance that the head coach has his video coach fired and doesn't get a reason for why it happened.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on July 15, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
I mean why did David Frost last as long as he did.   

I get what you're saying in general but that seems like a slightly different issue where the world of minor and junior hockey is an unregulated world full of scumbags where any person with authority can end up with a great deal of influence in a young person's life.

Here we're talking about a person with a pretty minor role in a huge multi-million dollar enterprise.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on July 15, 2021, 12:38:21 PM
I mean why did David Frost last as long as he did.   

I get what you're saying in general but that seems like a slightly different issue where the world of minor and junior hockey is an unregulated world full of scumbags where any person with authority can end up with a great deal of influence in a young person's life.

Here we're talking about a person with a pretty minor role in a huge multi-million dollar enterprise.

A lot of sexual assault accusations is that a lot of places look at the complaint as a bigger problem than the sexual assault. Rather than view Brad Aldrich as the person who should be dealt with, the two players making the accusation were the ones creating a problem.  Victim blaming is a big problem with it.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on July 19, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/after-jail-for-sex-offence-former-blackhawks-video-coach-uses-interns-to-build-business-1.1669656 (http://www.tsn.ca/after-jail-for-sex-offence-former-blackhawks-video-coach-uses-interns-to-build-business-1.1669656)
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on July 19, 2021, 10:10:44 AM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdventurousPowerlessCoelacanth-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on July 22, 2021, 06:21:50 PM
Oh it is even worse down thread
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on July 22, 2021, 06:33:26 PM
Oh it is even worse down thread

Every member of the Blackhawks organization should burn for this.  They won’t of course but they sure as hell should
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Lee-bo on July 24, 2021, 07:18:47 AM
What a disgusting organization.
This story isn’t nearly as big as it should be.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 29, 2021, 04:58:33 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on August 05, 2021, 10:39:45 PM
Invalid Tweet IDBarfs
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on August 06, 2021, 03:58:51 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on August 12, 2021, 01:12:11 PM
They've got a lovely bunch of coverups. There they are, standing in a row.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on September 02, 2021, 06:42:04 PM
How convenient
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 26, 2021, 01:14:51 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 26, 2021, 02:22:13 PM

Well that's funny because a couple of months ago:

Quote from: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/joel-quenneville-offers-participate-blackhawks-review-allegations/
"I first learned of these allegations through the media earlier this summer,'' Quenneville said Tuesday in a statement provided by the Panthers.

Quote from: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/jets-gm-kevin-cheveldayoff-no-prior-knowledge-aldrich-allegations/
“I had no knowledge of any allegations involving Mr. Aldrich until asked if I was aware of anything just prior to the conclusion of his employment with the Chicago Blackhawks," Cheveldayoff said, via the team-issued statement. "After confirming that I had no prior knowledge of anything, I had no further involvement.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 26, 2021, 02:22:36 PM

Bowman's out, apparently.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 26, 2021, 02:31:26 PM

Bowman's out, apparently.

I can't believe this didn't save his job:

Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 26, 2021, 02:47:49 PM
This is worse than saying nothing
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 26, 2021, 02:50:40 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 26, 2021, 02:56:37 PM

Worth noting that Sportico valued the Blackhawks at $1.56 billion recently.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 26, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
This thread has everything (report linked)
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 26, 2021, 04:20:39 PM
Worth noting that Sportico valued the Blackhawks at $1.56 billion recently.

Let this be a lesson to the rest of you NHL teams, foul up a serious allegation of sexual assault this badly in the future and it may cost you 1.5% of your yearly revenue.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Joe on October 26, 2021, 04:27:16 PM
So my question is where does this 2 million go? To the coyotes I assume?
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Joe on October 26, 2021, 04:30:19 PM
So basically this is Wirtz and Bowman?

(https://i.ibb.co/DpJwS0L/41721027-3-D14-410-A-B428-6856106-B3958.jpg)
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 26, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
So my question is where does this 2 million go? To the coyotes I assume?

Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 26, 2021, 05:30:39 PM

Doesn't all suspension/fine money go to various charities the league supports?
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on October 26, 2021, 05:34:01 PM
Doesn't all suspension/fine money go to various charities the league supports?

I might be mistaken, but I think it goes to the various funds set up by/for players and alumni.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Joe on October 26, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
And the coyotes.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 26, 2021, 06:35:33 PM
I mean I guess it’s something but it really is baffling how the end result of this is the firing of a GM who was probably on his last legs anyway and a token fine of insignificant amount. 
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Joe on October 26, 2021, 06:47:23 PM
Bowman is only 48. Not like he’s knocking on the door of retirement or anything.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 26, 2021, 07:01:39 PM
He didn’t get fired; he resigned from GMing the ‘hawks and now Team USA.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on October 26, 2021, 07:40:53 PM
He didn’t get fired; he resigned from GMing the ‘hawks and now Team USA.

Officially, sure, but you can be sure he was forced out, and allowed to resign so he could save face.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Peter D. on October 26, 2021, 09:03:56 PM
I mean I guess it’s something but it really is baffling how the end result of this is the firing of a GM who was probably on his last legs anyway and a token fine of insignificant amount.

This was my thought as well. He could have been fired for the team’s poor start, so in a way he’s no worse off.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 27, 2021, 06:26:35 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 27, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
It's been revealed that Kyle Beach is one of the players who says they were assaulted. Obviously who he is shouldn't matter much but the fact that the Blackhawks didn't even care to protect a 20 year old kid who was a 1st round pick certainly speaks to the idea that teams will be willing to throw anyone under the bus if they think they're any sort of risk to "cause trouble".

I really hope Stan Bowman can't find another job in the NHL.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on October 27, 2021, 06:55:16 PM
I hope the Blackhawks end up having to pay Kyle Beach whatever the going first round draft pick contract was like from 2008 and onward to present day....not that it will make up for the damage they did him, but at least he'd be financially compensated.

His courage in coming forward reminds me of Sheldon Kennedy's, another man for whom I have the upmost respect.

And I have to admit, Jonathan Toews has long been my favourite player, but I need answers now. If he knew about this and covered it up/let it slide etc, then I'm done with him too.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 27, 2021, 07:03:29 PM
It's been revealed that Kyle Beach is one of the players who says they were assaulted. Obviously who he is shouldn't matter much but the fact that the Blackhawks didn't even care to protect a 20 year old kid who was a 1st round pick certainly speaks to the idea that teams will be willing to throw anyone under the bus if they think they're any sort of risk to "cause trouble".

I really hope Stan Bowman can't find another job in the NHL.

Screw just Bowman.  I wants Quenneville’s head.  I want Cheveldayoff’s head.  Every last one of them should be barred from the league.

Watching Beach right now and this is devastating to watch.

Every last player in that organization should be a pariah to the game. 

I am embarrassed to be a fan of the NHL right now.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on October 27, 2021, 07:05:10 PM
Really have to wonder how much an influence suffering through this abuse impacted Beach’s ability to establish himself as an NHL player. I don’t think he was necessarily destined for stardom, but I have imagine, without the psychological impacts of the abuse, he could have definitely carved out something of an NHL career, even if it was a brief one.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 27, 2021, 07:14:35 PM
Quote
Quenneville shook his head and said it was hard for the team to get to where it was, and they could not deal with this issue now.

This man is coaching an NHL hockey game tonight.  The NHL is a disgrace.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 27, 2021, 07:16:58 PM
Quote
Quenneville shook his head and said it was hard for the team to get to where it was, and they could not deal with this issue now.

This man is coaching an NHL hockey game tonight.  The NHL is a disgrace.

The only question he should be asked in the post game is why he's calling Beach a liar.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 27, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Quote
Quenneville shook his head and said it was hard for the team to get to where it was, and they could not deal with this issue now.

This man is coaching an NHL hockey game tonight.  The NHL is a disgrace.

The only question he should be asked in the post game is why he's calling Beach a liar.

I will line up to buy beers for everyone who gets kicked out of the arena tonight for telling Quenneville what a vile human he is.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 27, 2021, 10:29:08 PM

Was a coward back then, still one now.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on October 27, 2021, 11:10:22 PM
One of the things that really pisses me off is there was a sexual assault of a minor a couple of years later that could have been avoided had this been dealt with properly.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on October 28, 2021, 08:15:46 AM

Was a coward back then, still one now.

Cowardly? Absolutely, but, in this case, probably listening to the advice of his lawyers.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 28, 2021, 08:38:15 AM
Cheveldayoff meeting with Bettman isn’t until Monday.  Maybe it’s just my annoyance at the coverup of a sexual assault but this seems like one of those “get in my office and explain yourself yesterday” kind of things.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 28, 2021, 01:38:32 PM
Whut
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 28, 2021, 01:46:04 PM

You know, I've talked a lot about how Canadian hockey culture and it's emphasis on conformity and hierarchy tends to produce these charisma and personality-free hockeybots but in the past that was largely in the context of how it makes the sports boring to follow at times.

Now, however, I think we're seeing that one of the other by-products of it is there's a real lack of empathy in some of these guys too. All they know is the sport and framing everything in a "How does the team win more games?" context. An actual belief in collective good or brotherhood or team would put someone like Beach and what happened to him above winning. But it seems to be just another extension of corporate thinking where "loyalty", "teamwork" and any other seemingly collective concepts are really just upwardly focused buzzwords where they only have value to the extent that they can pressure people into doing what's good for the people above them.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on October 28, 2021, 04:39:12 PM
Cheveldayoff meeting with Bettman isn’t until Monday.  Maybe it’s just my annoyance at the coverup of a sexual assault but this seems like one of those “get in my office and explain yourself yesterday” kind of things.

With respect, LK, I think you're being a bit naive about this situation. Bettman's primary concern will likely be damage control. And while we're seeing the release of this report, I suspect quite highly the NHL had most of those facts already.

I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 28, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Cheveldayoff meeting with Bettman isn’t until Monday.  Maybe it’s just my annoyance at the coverup of a sexual assault but this seems like one of those “get in my office and explain yourself yesterday” kind of things.

With respect, LK, I think you're being a bit naive about this situation. Bettman's primary concern will likely be damage control. And while we're seeing the release of this report, I suspect quite highly the NHL had most of those facts already.

I could be wrong though.

No I get it, I just hoped that the internal discussion stuff would be swift and immediate in response so the league can act like they are moving forward.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on October 28, 2021, 06:22:11 PM
I just finished reading the entire report. What a bunch of callous idiots.

My summary: sexual assault isn't that serious. We got games to win. Better to let an accused resign with bonus pay rather than investigate because that'd suck.

And man, the president McDonough really comes off bad. President of the organization waits 3+ weeks to report to the director of HR? (during which time Aldrich assaults a young Blackhawks employee) and after his resignation, they give him $22k in pay + a $15k playoff bonus AND let him celebrate with the team and have a personal day with the cup.

There also seems to be a whole lot of lack of recollection.

Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 28, 2021, 06:45:55 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Arn on October 28, 2021, 07:36:15 PM
The incidents and the report of the incidents is horrific.

But I just cannot get my head around why people would read it and be coming out with things like “he’s not this kind of guy” or “he’s a good guy” etc. I mean even if you do still think that after reading it all, read the room. Don’t make this about the perpetrators being the victims here.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 28, 2021, 09:10:29 PM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 28, 2021, 09:45:55 PM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd
I have zero issue with Q coaching last night because the meeting with Bettman was today and as long as he gets the punishment right it's good. Same goes with Chevy as his meeting has been moved up to tomorrow.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 28, 2021, 09:55:49 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 28, 2021, 10:13:23 PM
"With deep regret and contrition, I announce my resignation as head coach of the Florida Panthers," Quenneville said in a statement. "I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, suffered. My former team the Blackhawks failed Kyle and I own my share of that. I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 28, 2021, 11:28:37 PM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd

Yeah, a terrible decision by the Panthers that they can and should have to wear for a while. But the fact that they, and the Jets, are waiting for the League to act is pretty telling in and of itself.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 28, 2021, 11:31:23 PM
"With deep regret and contrition, I announce my resignation as head coach of the Florida Panthers," Quenneville said in a statement. "I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, suffered. My former team the Blackhawks failed Kyle and I own my share of that. I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."

I hope he finds a good educational program that includes such hard to grasp lessons as "When informed of a sexual assault, contact the police regardless of how your team's season is going".
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 28, 2021, 11:59:28 PM
"With deep regret and contrition, I announce my resignation as head coach of the Florida Panthers," Quenneville said in a statement. "I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, suffered. My former team the Blackhawks failed Kyle and I own my share of that. I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."

I hope he finds a good educational program that includes such hard to grasp lessons as "When informed of a sexual assault, contact the police regardless of how your team's season is going".

Don't worry, they are already demonstrating their relentless drive for solutions by figuring out a way to remove Aldrich's name from the Cup.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on October 29, 2021, 12:23:05 AM
"With deep regret and contrition, I announce my resignation as head coach of the Florida Panthers," Quenneville said in a statement. "I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, suffered. My former team the Blackhawks failed Kyle and I own my share of that. I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."

I hope he finds a good educational program that includes such hard to grasp lessons as "When informed of a sexual assault, contact the police regardless of how your team's season is going".

And, as the report points out, you could always follow the policy that's in place for exactly this situation.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Peter D. on October 29, 2021, 01:33:28 AM
I’m fully anticipating this being the league’s Me Too movement and this is just scratching the surface of things to come. With the deep rooted culture of hazing and all that comes with it, there for sure is a lot of these disgusting stories that have been buried over the years. Time to bring them to light and rinse the sport clean of that ridiculous behaviour and “tradition”.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on October 29, 2021, 08:23:34 AM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd

Panthers probably should have put him on administrative leave - especially since they almost certainly knew about his decisions beforehand - but, ultimately, it would have been more symbolic than anything else (which isn't necessarily worthless, of course).

Same with the Jets and Chevy. He shouldn't be working right now, and should be strongly encouraged to resign.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 29, 2021, 08:36:13 AM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd
I have zero issue with Q coaching last night because the meeting with Bettman was today and as long as he gets the punishment right it's good. Same goes with Chevy as his meeting has been moved up to tomorrow.

I think that's kind of bull#$#% argument.  This wasn't a case of not knowing what happened at this point.  If a player elbows a guy in the head and his team has a game the next night but the league doesn't have the ability to do an in person hearing until 2-3 days later you don't wait to suspend the guy.  He sits that night.

Ignoring the decade of inaction, the report was out.  It was a horrendous take to let him coach that game.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 29, 2021, 09:34:38 AM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd
I have zero issue with Q coaching last night because the meeting with Bettman was today and as long as he gets the punishment right it's good. Same goes with Chevy as his meeting has been moved up to tomorrow.

I think that's kind of bull#$#% argument.  This wasn't a case of not knowing what happened at this point.  If a player elbows a guy in the head and his team has a game the next night but the league doesn't have the ability to do an in person hearing until 2-3 days later you don't wait to suspend the guy.  He sits that night.

Ignoring the decade of inaction, the report was out.  It was a horrendous take to let him coach that game.
It's my opinion and it's fine if you don't agree. I'm not arguing the point. Beach said himself he hopes Bettman talks with anyone and everyone before he makes a decision. I suspect Chevy to be handing in his resignation later today after his meeting.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 29, 2021, 11:45:27 AM
Looks like Quenneville is done in Florida.  Makes the decision to let him coach last night all the more absurd
I have zero issue with Q coaching last night because the meeting with Bettman was today and as long as he gets the punishment right it's good. Same goes with Chevy as his meeting has been moved up to tomorrow.

I think that's kind of bull#$#% argument.  This wasn't a case of not knowing what happened at this point.  If a player elbows a guy in the head and his team has a game the next night but the league doesn't have the ability to do an in person hearing until 2-3 days later you don't wait to suspend the guy.  He sits that night.

Ignoring the decade of inaction, the report was out.  It was a horrendous take to let him coach that game.

Yeah. Even from a dispassionate standpoint, like, what's the upside in letting Quenneville coach? Like you're going to appear callous and indifferent to what are some pretty serious findings by letting him coach among a lot of people so what's the counterweight? If Quenneville had to take the night off for his health or family concerns it would probably barely rate a mention.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 29, 2021, 11:54:03 AM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on October 29, 2021, 11:55:46 AM
Invalid Tweet IDFriedman published a quick podcast this morning, by himself, on this topic that he appeared to be avoiding.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 29, 2021, 12:17:44 PM

I'm kind of a grab-the-pitchfork guy but taking Bettman's statement at face value, this seems like a reasonable decision.  Everyone's role should be assessed independently.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 29, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/29/sports/climate-pledge-arena-seattle.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/29/sports/climate-pledge-arena-seattle.html)

This is very cool.  Leiweke is showing some leadership. 
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Zee on October 29, 2021, 03:03:54 PM

I'm kind of a grab-the-pitchfork guy but taking Bettman's statement at face value, this seems like a reasonable decision.  Everyone's role should be assessed independently.

I wouldn't trust anything coming out of Bettman's mouth.

Also, assistant GM isn't part of the senior leadership?
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 29, 2021, 03:16:32 PM
Also, assistant GM isn't part of the senior leadership?

This is semantic-y but I can kinda/sorta see where this is coming from. At the time Cheveldayoff would have been a 40-year old in his first season in NHL management. Of all the people in the room during that first meeting about Aldrich his voice probably would have been the quietest. Granted I still consider him pretty complicit in all of this. His voice may have been the quietest but he was still in a position to do something and chose not to.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: hap_leaf on October 29, 2021, 03:25:50 PM
"With deep regret and contrition, I announce my resignation as head coach of the Florida Panthers," Quenneville said in a statement. "I want to express my sorrow for the pain this young man, Kyle Beach, suffered. My former team the Blackhawks failed Kyle and I own my share of that. I want to reflect on how all of this happened and take the time to educate myself on ensuring hockey spaces are safe for everyone."

I wonder how many years he had that rehearsed in the back of his mind, knowing one day he would be speaking it...probably made it unfortunately easier for him.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on October 29, 2021, 05:54:12 PM
Also, assistant GM isn't part of the senior leadership?

This is semantic-y but I can kinda/sorta see where this is coming from. At the time Cheveldayoff would have been a 40-year old in his first season in NHL management. Of all the people in the room during that first meeting about Aldrich his voice probably would have been the quietest. Granted I still consider him pretty complicit in all of this. His voice may have been the quietest but he was still in a position to do something and chose not to.

I’ll buy the argument about power discrepancy but that requires accepting the argument that a 40 year old man doesn’t understand that covering up sex assault isn’t the right move.  I’m not sure I can agree with the NHL’s position here.

He has had 10 years to come out on this and back the victims and given that he’s not a witness for Kyle and the other John Doe’s makes me still question how the NHL handles this
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on October 29, 2021, 06:25:15 PM
Also, assistant GM isn't part of the senior leadership?

This is semantic-y but I can kinda/sorta see where this is coming from. At the time Cheveldayoff would have been a 40-year old in his first season in NHL management. Of all the people in the room during that first meeting about Aldrich his voice probably would have been the quietest. Granted I still consider him pretty complicit in all of this. His voice may have been the quietest but he was still in a position to do something and chose not to.

I’ll buy the argument about power discrepancy but that requires accepting the argument that a 40 year old man doesn’t understand that covering up sex assault isn’t the right move.  I’m not sure I can agree with the NHL’s position here.

To somewhat play devil's advocate, and to be clear I'd have been fine if the NHL did to Cheveldayoff what they did to Quenneville, I wonder if the NHL's position is that Cheveldayoff had very little say in how the organization responded and that any act he took would have been essentially of his own volition outside of the team's power structure. The NHL, I think, can make a reasonable argument that they do have jurisdiction when it comes to how people in authority run the teams they coach/gm/president but less so when it comes to moral judgements on whether or not Cheveldayoff did enough on his own to address the issue.

And, again, to be clear I think we all agree that he didn't do enough and he made the wrong choice but I think it would be fair for the NHL to say that in Cheveldayoff's case if he should be fired, it should be the Jets who fire him.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Joe on November 01, 2021, 03:27:35 PM
?s=20
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Dappleganger on November 01, 2021, 03:29:58 PM
Not great.  :-\
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 01, 2021, 07:01:53 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on November 02, 2021, 09:30:59 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 02, 2021, 09:42:25 AM
Ever since going independent, Ken Campbell has been taking very good swings.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on November 02, 2021, 09:50:07 AM
I'm not sure why Bettman has to apologize to Beach.

The Chicago Blackhawks need to apologize, profusely.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on November 02, 2021, 10:18:35 AM
I'm not sure why Bettman has to apologize to Beach.

The Chicago Blackhawks need to apologize, profusely.

I guess that depends on how much Bettman knew before the recent reports and what action he took or didn't take based on that knowledge. I think the league as a whole needs to apologize for their failures in these situations - the head offices, the NHLPA . . . everyone who had some knowledge of the situation but didn't take the appropriate steps or follow up to ensure the appropriate steps had been taken - but Bettman specifically apologizing to Beach? I don't know if we know enough about just how much detail the league's head offices had about the situation and how it was being handled to be able to make a clear call there.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Guilt Trip on November 02, 2021, 11:16:40 AM
I'm not sure why Bettman has to apologize to Beach.

The Chicago Blackhawks need to apologize, profusely.

I guess that depends on how much Bettman knew before the recent reports and what action he took or didn't take based on that knowledge. I think the league as a whole needs to apologize for their failures in these situations - the head offices, the NHLPA . . . everyone who had some knowledge of the situation but didn't take the appropriate steps or follow up to ensure the appropriate steps had been taken - but Bettman specifically apologizing to Beach? I don't know if we know enough about just how much detail the league's head offices had about the situation and how it was being handled to be able to make a clear call there.
I could be wrong but from what I heard, the report said both the Wirtz family and the NHL didn't know.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on November 02, 2021, 11:23:17 AM
I read the report in its entirety. It doesn't actually mention Wirtz or the NHL. It's focused almost solely on the action/inaction of the Chicago Blackhawks management.

Edit: after reading the report, I'm comfortable with the decision to not discipline Cheveldayov. He would be worthy of a reprimand, I think, for passive inactions, but Bowman, Quenneville, and especially McDonough deserve punishment. Bowman and McDonough even more so than Quenneville. While Quenneville was awful for basically suggesting this would be a distraction to the playoffs, Bowman was the GM and McDonough his boss. They all have a minor defense in that McDonough said he was taking care of it, so they have assumed it was between McDonough and HR and Beach. Problem is McDonough waited weeks to mention it to HR and then HR gives Alrich an out ("you've done a terrible, illegal thing, but we'll let you resign with dignity....")

This, to me is a valid defense in the first few weeks. There was confusion about who was dealing with it and they all assumed someone else (McDonough) was dealing it. The defense ends there though. No one followed up afterward to ensure it was dealt with. That's completely inexcusable, especially from the upper ranks (GM, head coach). Keep in mind, Aldrich was directly answerable to Quenneville.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Frank E on November 02, 2021, 11:57:59 AM
I read the report in its entirety. It doesn't actually mention Wirtz or the NHL. It's focused almost solely on the action/inaction of the Chicago Blackhawks management.

Edit: after reading the report, I'm comfortable with the decision to not discipline Cheveldayov. He would be worthy of a reprimand, I think, for passive inactions, but Bowman, Quenneville, and especially McDonough deserve punishment. Bowman and McDonough even more so than Quenneville. While Quenneville was awful for basically suggesting this would be a distraction to the playoffs, Bowman was the GM and McDonough his boss. They all have a minor defense in that McDonough said he was taking care of it, so they have assumed it was between McDonough and HR and Beach. Problem is McDonough waited weeks to mention it to HR and then HR gives Alrich an out ("you've done a terrible, illegal thing, but we'll let you resign with dignity....")

This, to me is a valid defense in the first few weeks. There was confusion about who was dealing with it and they all assumed someone else (McDonough) was dealing it. The defense ends there though. No one followed up afterward to ensure it was dealt with. That's completely inexcusable, especially from the upper ranks (GM, head coach). Keep in mind, Aldrich was directly answerable to Quenneville.

Thank you for that insight Frog.  It's good to hear from someone who has actually read the report.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Frank E on November 02, 2021, 12:04:11 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this, but Fehr himself is recommending an "independent investigation, into how the PA handled the Beach call for help.

According to the Blackhawks' report, Fehr got 2 separate phone calls on the matter, and says he doesn't remember the calls.

So...why have an investigation when the buck stops at Fehr anyways?
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on November 02, 2021, 12:22:01 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this, but Fehr himself is recommending an "independent investigation, into how the PA handled the Beach call for help.

According to the Blackhawks' report, Fehr got 2 separate phone calls on the matter, and says he doesn't remember the calls.

So...why have an investigation when the buck stops at Fehr anyways?

To identify any other failings from the PA on the matter - who else knew and could have acted, what they knew, etc. - and how the PA can improve in those areas.

The buck stops with Fehr, but a lot can go wrong before it gets to him. Need to make sure those issues are ironed out.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Frank E on November 02, 2021, 12:35:06 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this, but Fehr himself is recommending an "independent investigation, into how the PA handled the Beach call for help.

According to the Blackhawks' report, Fehr got 2 separate phone calls on the matter, and says he doesn't remember the calls.

So...why have an investigation when the buck stops at Fehr anyways?

To identify any other failings from the PA on the matter - who else knew and could have acted, what they knew, etc. - and how the PA can improve in those areas.

The buck stops with Fehr, but a lot can go wrong before it gets to him. Need to make sure those issues are ironed out.

That sounds more like spreading out the blame to me.

If Fehr himself didn't take it seriously, then why is there an expectation that others should have?

If you want to do something productive here, create a process of how the PA intends on investigating these accusations in cooperation with the league. 

Having said that, I think they're probably expecting a lawsuit here and should get the facts of the matter organized. 
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 02, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on November 02, 2021, 01:42:14 PM
That sounds more like spreading out the blame to me.

If Fehr himself didn't take it seriously, then why is there an expectation that others should have?

If you want to do something productive here, create a process of how the PA intends on investigating these accusations in cooperation with the league. 

Having said that, I think they're probably expecting a lawsuit here and should get the facts of the matter organized.

Identifying areas where problems occurred and improvements need to be made is hardly spreading out the blame. It's vital to probably framing the issues within the PA that allowed this to be overlooked.

To create an adequate process, you need to investigate what is currently in place, where the failures occurred, etc.

It's easy to just wave it away as "Fehr didn't take it seriously," but we don't know how it was presented to him, how much information he was provided, how the information was filtered, etc. These things all require an investigation to get to the bottom of.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 02, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
I'm not sure why Bettman has to apologize to Beach.

Campbell's contention was more about media positioning Bettman's statements as an apology.

As for whether an apology is actually owed, I believe what is truly owed is a thorough audit and subsequent action to ensure the League has the mechanisms and people in place where such a violation and dereliction of duty does not happen again. Not only is it the right thing, but for the future protection of the League's reputation. The NHLPA doing the same can only be a good thing. They're not going to be doing that under Bettman, as his modus operandi is to try to keep things quiet and boring.

Poop rolls to the top, and the League is responsible for the conduct, and to some degree the culture, of its franchises. What has come to a head in this case is the decades of general coverup of issues (domestic issues, substance abuses, assaults) leading to the series of wrong decisions the Chicago hockey organization undertook regarding Aldrich's abuses.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 02, 2021, 04:09:15 PM
Ah case in point:
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 02, 2021, 06:59:14 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this, but Fehr himself is recommending an "independent investigation, into how the PA handled the Beach call for help.

According to the Blackhawks' report, Fehr got 2 separate phone calls on the matter, and says he doesn't remember the calls.

So...why have an investigation when the buck stops at Fehr anyways?

To identify any other failings from the PA on the matter - who else knew and could have acted, what they knew, etc. - and how the PA can improve in those areas.

The buck stops with Fehr, but a lot can go wrong before it gets to him. Need to make sure those issues are ironed out.

Fehr isn't CEO of the Player's Association. He works for the players. While obviously the PA has a responsibility to Beach and they, including Fehr, certainly seem to have failed him in this regard the reality is that the "buck" doesn't stop with Fehr in the same way that it might with Bettman and the NHL because, unlike the Commissioner's office, there is no pretension that by being the Director of the Player's Union that Fehr is the boss of the Players. If it were then everything the owners said about the PA during negotiations, that players were just thralls to the Union Goons dictating their moves, would be true.

Any union, its policies and practices, are as good as its members in it. If there was a real problem with how this information got to the union and how it was acted upon within then there's certainly enough blame to go around, and you certainly could argue it should cost Fehr his job, but it's really not Fehr's job to decide on union structure or policy.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 02, 2021, 07:02:01 PM
I'm not sure why Bettman has to apologize to Beach.

I don't know that he "has" to necessarily but I suppose it depends on what extent you think Bettman is responsible for the NHL as a whole and, as commissioner, is still ultimately institutionally responsible for franchises like the Blackhawks.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on November 02, 2021, 11:02:27 PM
I don't necessarily disagree, but ultimately I find it hard to pass the buck at all beyond the Blackhawks, a large organization with its own corporate structure, including an HR department and clearly articulated policies.

The Fehr situation is a bit tricky. He was the ED for only a week or two when the assault was reported to the NHLPA and Beach wasn't an NHLPA member. Again, as with everyone else, those aren't excuses but are factors in the story of how Beach was failed.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 02, 2021, 11:16:24 PM
I don't necessarily disagree, but ultimately I find it hard to pass the buck at all beyond the Blackhawks, a large organization with its own corporate structure, including an HR department and clearly articulated policies.

It's only "passing the buck" if you think that Bettman acknowledging that the Blackhawks are part of the league that he's institutionally responsible for somehow absolves the Blackhawks of their specific responsibilities.

There's an analogy I'm fairly reluctant to use but imagine, if you will, a large religious organization who as a matter of structure elects a supreme head of their faith and then runs into some trouble when official members of that organization commit many, many bad acts over the centuries. The current Supreme Head of that Faith might feel compelled to apologize for the institutional responsibility his organization had without ignoring the culpability of the individual bad actors.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bender on November 02, 2021, 11:47:15 PM
I don't necessarily disagree, but ultimately I find it hard to pass the buck at all beyond the Blackhawks, a large organization with its own corporate structure, including an HR department and clearly articulated policies.

It's only "passing the buck" if you think that Bettman acknowledging that the Blackhawks are part of the league that he's institutionally responsible for somehow absolves the Blackhawks of their specific responsibilities.

There's an analogy I'm fairly reluctant to use but imagine, if you will, a large religious organization who as a matter of structure elects a supreme head of their faith and then runs into some trouble when official members of that organization commit many, many bad acts over the centuries. The current Supreme Head of that Faith might feel compelled to apologize for the institutional responsibility his organization had without ignoring the culpability of the individual bad actors.
You couldn't have been that reluctant .

But seriously, I'm onside here. Bettman apologizing doesn't mean he has any truly direct wrong doing or admission of guilt. It represents a an apology on behalf of the league itself since he is the head of the league.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 03, 2021, 12:15:13 AM
You couldn't have been that reluctant .

Luckily I was able to come up with a hypothetical.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on November 03, 2021, 08:56:25 AM

A rare moment that I don't hate the Bruins.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on November 03, 2021, 09:39:34 AM
I didn't dislike anything that was said by Cheveldayoff and Chipman at their press conference yesterday.

Perhaps the one thing I think still outstanding on this whole affair is that there really should be a policy for these kinds of investigations to be done by an independent third party.  I don't know that this would have really changed any of the findings but this notion of investigation of ourselves led to this type of event taking 11 years to reach part of an outcome.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on November 03, 2021, 06:02:58 PM
I don't necessarily disagree, but ultimately I find it hard to pass the buck at all beyond the Blackhawks, a large organization with its own corporate structure, including an HR department and clearly articulated policies.

It's only "passing the buck" if you think that Bettman acknowledging that the Blackhawks are part of the league that he's institutionally responsible for somehow absolves the Blackhawks of their specific responsibilities.

There's an analogy I'm fairly reluctant to use but imagine, if you will, a large religious organization who as a matter of structure elects a supreme head of their faith and then runs into some trouble when official members of that organization commit many, many bad acts over the centuries. The current Supreme Head of that Faith might feel compelled to apologize for the institutional responsibility his organization had without ignoring the culpability of the individual bad actors.

I get what you're saying, and your hypothetical is an interesting analogy. Major difference is that in Bettman/NHL's case, they didn't know. In your hypothetical religious organization, they've known for decades.

I do think Bettman could apologize for not being more proactive in addressing the hockey culture that allows this to continue.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: OldTimeHockey on November 03, 2021, 06:47:13 PM
Ultimately, Bettman is responsible. Responsible in that he should be fired? No. Responsible in that he's the leader of the group, yes.

You are correct that he didn't know. But as a manager, some of the blame falls on him for not knowing.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bullfrog on November 03, 2021, 07:22:06 PM
I suppose I just have a different view of his role and of the NHL in general. He's not a manager in any way that I see it.
I see the NHL as more of a collection of 32 independent organizations that collectively belong to the NHL. I think the NHL certainly has influence over the broader culture of hockey and that culture contributes to situations like this where a player doesn't feel safe reporting things.

I also see someone like Bettman apologizing as hollow and meaningless, and that's probably a big part of my opposition. When Dubas fesses up to something that clearly wasn't his fault (as he often does), it actually quite bothers me.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 03, 2021, 08:29:39 PM
I get what you're saying, and your hypothetical is an interesting analogy. Major difference is that in Bettman/NHL's case, they didn't know. In your hypothetical religious organization, they've known for decades.

But in a way that's my point. The hypothetical current head of said religious institution may not be, as far as we know, personally culpable in some of these misdeeds but his apologies are on behalf of the institution rather than of a personal failing. I appreciate the extent to which the Blackhawks are part of the NHL as a hierarchical structure is not a perfect analogy to my entirely hypothetical religious body but like you say it's very hard to argue that the Blackhawks' decision was not a result of the existing hockey culture that someone like Bettman would have to be pretty willfully blind to have not known.

I mean, you know, the fact that the NHL has the power to fine the Blackhawks is a pretty strong indication that they are, at least in part, the authoritative body here and Bettman as the commissioner is at least the figurehead of that organization.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: OldTimeHockey on November 04, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
I suppose I just have a different view of his role and of the NHL in general. He's not a manager in any way that I see it.
I see the NHL as more of a collection of 32 independent organizations that collectively belong to the NHL. I think the NHL certainly has influence over the broader culture of hockey and that culture contributes to situations like this where a player doesn't feel safe reporting things.

I also see someone like Bettman apologizing as hollow and meaningless, and that's probably a big part of my opposition. When Dubas fesses up to something that clearly wasn't his fault (as he often does), it actually quite bothers me.

I suppose that all depends on what the responsibilities of a manager or commissioner are. I've always believed that if something happens under my watch as a manager, I am ultimately responsible. In the case of Bettman, he may not have been involved personally in creating the toxic hockey culture that is on full display in Chicago, but when he takes on the leadership role of the "company" he is ultimately responsible for recognizing and repairing the short comings of the group he is leading.

If Bettman apologizes and walks away saying "good enough" then his apology is hollow. If, with his apology comes a plan of repairing this toxic situation and they follow through on it, then his apology has merit.

I think looking at this as a solely "Chicago problem" is a little narrow minded. This is a hockey problem. Bettman and the other NHL leaders play a big part in trying to correct this. It starts with doing whatever they can to help Kyle Beach.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 04, 2021, 09:56:46 AM
Let's see how quickly the media jumps to 'mission accomplished' on this terrible situation and coverup after a token bloodletting of x-ing out a name and a fortuitous blockbuster deal to flood the airwaves.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: OldTimeHockey on November 04, 2021, 10:12:52 AM
Let's see how quickly the media jumps to 'mission accomplished' on this terrible situation and coverup after a token bloodletting of x-ing out a name and a fortuitous blockbuster deal to flood the airwaves.

The media plays a big part in this. Fans do as well.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 04, 2021, 10:51:42 AM
Let's see how quickly the media jumps to 'mission accomplished' on this terrible situation and coverup after a token bloodletting of x-ing out a name and a fortuitous blockbuster deal to flood the airwaves.

The media plays a big part in this. Fans do as well.

Kind of makes you wish there was a much beloved and admired poster on a hockey forum who has tried for years to tell other fans that caring only about winning to the exclusion of all else is toxic and breeds a terrible environment for sports.

If only.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: OldTimeHockey on November 04, 2021, 11:54:42 AM
Let's see how quickly the media jumps to 'mission accomplished' on this terrible situation and coverup after a token bloodletting of x-ing out a name and a fortuitous blockbuster deal to flood the airwaves.

The media plays a big part in this. Fans do as well.

Kind of makes you wish there was a much beloved and admired poster on a hockey forum who has tried for years to tell other fans that caring only about winning to the exclusion of all else is toxic and breeds a terrible environment for sports.

If only.

Exactly. It could have fixed everything
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on November 06, 2021, 02:44:40 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Frank E on November 06, 2021, 03:09:29 PM

While I appreciate the sentiment or whatever that is, the NHL has a fraction of the terrible bul*shit that the NBA, MLB, and NFL have...and they seem to be doing just fine, right?

EDIT:  And that's not a comment on the league's response, I'm just saying that most corporations will spend their money where the eyeballs are regardless.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 06, 2021, 03:32:31 PM
While I appreciate the sentiment or whatever that is, the NHL has a fraction of the terrible bul*shit that the NBA, MLB, and NFL have...and they seem to be doing just fine, right?

I don't know about that. As far as bad things in sports goes, this is fairly well up there. I don't know there's a lot in those other sports in recent years that compares to a player in the league being sexually assaulted and a team effectively ignoring it because they thought it might hurt their playoff chances. A company is going to want to feel pretty good on the ROI of their sponsorship dollars to be associated with that.

EDIT:  And that's not a comment on the league's response, I'm just saying that most corporations will spend their money where the eyeballs are regardless.

But sort of the natural flipside of that is that the less powerful a sport is, the more leverage their sponsors have. So while the NBA or NFL might say to a sponsor "If you don't like the way we run things, we have other people whose money we can take" the NHL can't be quite so cavalier with sponsors they want to keep. Remember, we're not too far removed from the NHL games being on the Outdoor Life Network in the states.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on November 08, 2021, 06:23:00 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 09, 2021, 11:14:52 AM

I'm sure one of their lawyers told them that to do so might be a liability problem but it sure seems like a bad headine for no reason.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: bustaheims on November 09, 2021, 11:21:11 AM
I'm sure one of their lawyers told them that to do so might be a liability problem but it sure seems like a bad headine for no reason.

Yup. Seems like something they probably should have let their lawyers handle instead of responding directly. Still wouldn't look good, but at least, it would give the league some cover.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 09, 2021, 04:18:45 PM

What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Nik on November 16, 2021, 06:32:03 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on February 02, 2022, 09:25:57 PM
That new PR manager is in for a treat tonight
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: L K on February 02, 2022, 09:41:05 PM
This is the kind of thing that should get you removed as an owner.  Unbelievably atrocious behaviour. 
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 02, 2022, 11:13:13 PM
This is the kind of thing that should get you removed as an owner.  Unbelievably atrocious behaviour. 
He's getting blasted on social media. What a tool.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Dappleganger on February 03, 2022, 11:12:40 AM
This is beyond stupid. All he needs is a pre-canned answer like, "We take this matter very seriously. We're reviewing all of our internal policies and we should have some initiatives to announce very soon."

Any follow up questions, just "We have nothing further at this time."

Dumb.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: princedpw on February 03, 2022, 12:42:21 PM
This is beyond stupid. All he needs is a pre-canned answer like, "We take this matter very seriously. We're reviewing all of our internal policies and we should have some initiatives to announce very soon."

Any follow up questions, just "We have nothing further at this time."

Dumb.

There's also no excuse for not having something much better in place already.  It's actually not very hard at all to figure out.  There are millions of other businesses that need to be concerned about abuse (eg: look at universities ... many young people mentored by older people who have power over them).

Start simply by appointing an independent ombudsperson who can listen to complaints and act as a sounding board and has written into their contract that they have no obligation to anyone other than those folks who report problems of harassment or discrimination.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on February 03, 2022, 01:27:05 PM
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on February 03, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
It’s honestly hard to imagine a worse answer to this question. If he gave an appropriate answer, which wouldn’t have been challenging to do, literally nobody outside of Chicago would even know about this press conference even happening. This isn’t just Wirtz shooting himself in the foot, it’s also him seeking out the gun to do it with and dismissing the attempts to prevent him from doing it, thus ensuring that everybody that follows the NHL knows about it.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Dappleganger on February 03, 2022, 03:11:36 PM
He's a billionaire who thinks he's beyond reproach. Can't say I'm surprise by that.

Also, this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKrni1jVEAEEYk2?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: Bender on February 04, 2022, 12:14:53 AM
Gross organization in literally all respects.
Title: Re: Blackhawks refused to report alleged sex abuse of players to police: source
Post by: herman on April 15, 2022, 06:33:13 PM
A) nice publication time
B) there seems to be a miscommunication or misunderstanding about what systemic means