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Ukraine

Started by Highlander, February 24, 2022, 01:36:49 PM

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berserker

Meanwhile we are still importing a million dolla s worth of oil a day from Russia. Instead of using our own oil we help fund a war at a tune of 1 million per day

Bender

Quote from: berserker on February 28, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
Oh no opposing views . Very Liberal of you
Let's all join hands and smoke a fatty.
This is about Ukraine, not about your own hangups about the federal government.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

bustaheims

Quote from: berserker on February 28, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
Oh no opposing views . Very Liberal of you
Let's all join hands and smoke a fatty.

You're just not as good a comedian as Zelensky used to be. Don't quit your day job or run for office.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

louisstamos

Quote from: berserker on February 28, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
Oh no opposing views . Very Liberal of you
Let's all join hands and smoke a fatty.

"Murder should be illegal"

"No, murder should be legal."

"Welp, I guess I have to accept these opposing views..."

L K

Yes, it's clearly about liberal views and not your callus co-opting of a thread about a war to push your stupid politics. 

Nik


After being roundly criticized for their decision to let Russia continue with qualifying for the World Cup over the weekend, FIFA has reversed course and kicked them out of the tournament.

And good ol' 99 has urged the IIHF to do the same to their WJC team for the rescheduling of the World Juniors. Hopefully, they do.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

berserker

So importing 1 million dollars of oil a day from
Russia is not about the Ukraine ?

Nik

Quote from: berserker on February 28, 2022, 01:48:49 PM
So importing 1 million dollars of oil a day from
Russia is not about the Ukraine ?

I think the objection is more about your earlier inaccurate and entirely off-topic post about Trudeau than about the oil claim. Thing is, Canada(or any country) can't just fundamentally change their oil consumption in a short period of time. Contracts for alternate sources need to be negotiated and signed and, if the answer is internal, then infrastructure needs to be built to support that which likewise can't happen overnight.

If the argument is then why didn't we more aggressively pursue internal production for domestic use prior to this then we get back to the reality that climate change is a real concern and that "more oil production" (Especially from the oil sands) is not a cost-effective or environmentally sound long term solution. Or at least that debate, anyway, which exists independently of Russia's invasion.

So, no, that really isn't anything to do with the on-going invasion in Ukraine(again, not "the" Ukraine). While there is a larger discussion to be had about energy independence it is not immediately addressable and at best could be seen as an attempt to change the subject from the deadly attack on Ukrainian civilians happening at this very moment. Provided your intention is anything other than cynically using the current situation to criticize our sitting government it is neither relevant nor constructive to say nothing of displaying any actual empathy.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Highlander

The West has completely decapitated the Russian financial system, totally.  Putin and his cronies are now threatening the nuclear option.  It's getting really concerning.  Switzerland has told the world they are siding with the West and this is a country that has always been neutral.

How can Russia back out and not lose face completely?
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Bill_Berg_is_sad

Quote from: Nik on February 28, 2022, 02:00:58 PM
Quote from: berserker on February 28, 2022, 01:48:49 PM
So importing 1 million dollars of oil a day from
Russia is not about the Ukraine ?

I think the objection is more about your earlier inaccurate and entirely off-topic post about Trudeau than about the oil claim. Thing is, Canada(or any country) can't just fundamentally change their oil consumption in a short period of time. Contracts for alternate sources need to be negotiated and signed and, if the answer is internal, then infrastructure needs to be built to support that which likewise can't happen overnight.

If the argument is then why didn't we more aggressively pursue internal production for domestic use prior to this then we get back to the reality that climate change is a real concern and that "more oil production" (Especially from the oil sands) is not a cost-effective or environmentally sound long term solution. Or at least that debate, anyway, which exists independently of Russia's invasion.

So, no, that really isn't anything to do with the on-going invasion in Ukraine(again, not "the" Ukraine). While there is a larger discussion to be had about energy independence it is not immediately addressable and at best could be seen as an attempt to change the subject from the deadly attack on Ukrainian civilians happening at this very moment. Provided your intention is anything other than cynically using the current situation to criticize our sitting government it is neither relevant nor constructive to say nothing of displaying any actual empathy.


Also, a ban on Russian oil would cause a protest of people that have been inconvienced by higher gas prices. 

Nik

Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_sad on February 28, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Also, a ban on Russian oil would cause a protest of people that have been inconvienced by higher gas prices.

In the short term, absolutely. People do need to keep in mind that sanctions don't just hurt Russia or the Russian people. Enacting them is a conscious decision to put our ethics above our wallets. Certain things, things produced by Russia and Ukraine, are bound to be more expensive until this matter comes to a resolution.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Bill_Berg_is_sad

Quote from: Nik on February 28, 2022, 02:58:10 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_sad on February 28, 2022, 02:42:42 PM
Also, a ban on Russian oil would cause a protest of people that have been inconvienced by higher gas prices.

In the short term, absolutely. People do need to keep in mind that sanctions don't just hurt Russia or the Russian people. Enacting them is a conscious decision to put our ethics above our wallets. Certain things, things produced by Russia and Ukraine, are bound to be more expensive until this matter comes to a resolution.

Dem truckers need gas. They'll be back in Ottawa in a week, costing Canada even more money. We're clearly not the country to say we don't have a minority willing to honk loudly when our government choses our ethics over our wallets.

Nik

Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_sad on February 28, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
Dem truckers need gas. They'll be back in Ottawa in a week, costing Canada even more money. We're clearly not the country to say we don't have a minority willing to honk loudly when our government choses our ethics over our wallets.

For what it's worth, I don't want to be dismissive of those concerns. Truth is a lot of people are feeling a financial pinch right now and it's bound to get worse. I empathize with people seeing the cost of filling their tanks going up and their grocery bills increasing and their rents being hiked. It's a tough time for a lot of people.

But there's another truth that for a long time we've been a society that basically looked the other way at a lot of awful stuff happening around the world, whether it be to people or animals or the environment, so long as it meant cheap food and consumer goods. It's not, and never has been, sustainable.

I don't want to change the subject here. We should be talking about the current invasion of Ukraine and what we can do to show our support to the Ukrainian people(and the Russians bravely protesting against the actions of their government) but I do hope that this creates more awareness and reflection on what that .92/L gas price actually meant and how we should think of it going forward.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

berserker

Nic you have a well thought out post.
And I enjoyed the read . But I tend to agree more with Tristin Hopper of The National Post.
Forget the vodka , why isn't Canada banning Russian oil ?   
Long term short term we are too dependent on
Foreign oil , for no reason.
My thought and prayers are with the Ukraine
but what happens if it expands into one of the neighboring countries that are part of NATO
It will become a fight we will have to join .

Bill_Berg_is_sad

Quote from: Nik on February 28, 2022, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg_is_sad on February 28, 2022, 03:06:51 PM
Dem truckers need gas. They'll be back in Ottawa in a week, costing Canada even more money. We're clearly not the country to say we don't have a minority willing to honk loudly when our government choses our ethics over our wallets.

For what it's worth, I don't want to be dismissive of those concerns. Truth is a lot of people are feeling a financial pinch right now and it's bound to get worse. I empathize with people seeing the cost of filling their tanks going up and their grocery bills increasing and their rents being hiked. It's a tough time for a lot of people.

But there's another truth that for a long time we've been a society that basically looked the other way at a lot of awful stuff happening around the world, whether it be to people or animals or the environment, so long as it meant cheap food and consumer goods. It's not, and never has been, sustainable.

I don't want to change the subject here. We should be talking about the current invasion of Ukraine and what we can do to show our support to the Ukrainian people(and the Russians bravely protesting against the actions of their government) but I do hope that this creates more awareness and reflection on what that .92/L gas price actually meant and how we should think of it going forward.

I agree with you, I'm mostly being a bitter a$$. These leaps of logic just annoy the hell out of me. If we did really sanction Russian oil, it would take time to implement and support. Hell, it may even be in progress.