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Maple Leafs News and Views => Leafs Rumours & Speculation => Topic started by: Nik on August 23, 2017, 10:10:15 AM

Title: Tavares
Post by: Nik on August 23, 2017, 10:10:15 AM

I put this up not in the hopes that we in any way replicate the Stamkos thread but just because I'm guessing we're going to hear a lot of speculation about the possibility until Tavares signs an extension.

That said...nobody would really think it's a good idea, right? The Stamkos situation pretty much drove a stake into the heart of the idea that someone like that would take a huge discount to play for the Leafs so just from a dollars standpoint it makes almost no sense unless you follow it up with trading one of MNM and even then, all due respect to Tavares, I'd rather take their growth potential.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on August 23, 2017, 10:19:25 AM
I dont think its a proposterous idea. I just think the stars would have to line up for it to happen. Like I said in the Stamkos thread,if you can sign him for nothing than trading one of Marner or Nylander (along with picks perhaps) for a true #1 D man actually improves the club by leaps and bounds.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 23, 2017, 10:22:20 AM
I don't think that Tavares entertains it, but Button's idea of an enormous 1-year contract for him next season before the Matthews and Marner deals kick in is probably the only way I'd do it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: louisstamos on August 23, 2017, 10:26:03 AM
I'm with you on this.  I'd love Tavares at something like $7-$8 million, but that simply isn't going to happen.  I'd rather hang on, and attach the camp dollars, to the kids.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on August 23, 2017, 10:34:33 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on August 23, 2017, 10:22:20 AM
I don't think that Tavares entertains it, but Button's idea of an enormous 1-year contract for him next season before the Matthews and Marner deals kick in is probably the only way I'd do it.

I'm a fan of Button's suggestion. I also got a pretty good deal on 1/10th ownership of the Statue of Liberty last time I was in New York that I'm willing to give to Tavares, if he signs for a year with the Leafs. Help off-set the potential risk of getting hurt and not being able to play hockey again. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on August 23, 2017, 10:38:30 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on August 23, 2017, 10:22:20 AM
I don't think that Tavares entertains it, but Button's idea of an enormous 1-year contract for him next season before the Matthews and Marner deals kick in is probably the only way I'd do it.

Even then though, I feel like you're throwing one heck of a curveball into the mix for a very limited upside. A steady progression towards the team the Leafs ultimately want to be seems like a better bet than having one crazy year where they're sort of artificially pumped up.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on August 23, 2017, 10:45:07 AM
I think, had the Leafs not signed Marleau this summer, Tavares might have been a more realistic target. He still would have potentially caused complications down the line, but, the immediate upside would have been worth it.

I also think that going the Marleau-type route might be the better way to help keep the core together while adding quality secondary pieces. Less term means better flexibility in the future.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on August 23, 2017, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on August 23, 2017, 10:45:07 AM
I think, had the Leafs not signed Marleau this summer, Tavares might have been a more realistic target. He still would have potentially caused complications down the line, but, the immediate upside would have been worth it.

Not that this necessarily refutes what you're saying here but I genuinely think that in order to sign someone like Tavares it would ring in at roughly double what Marleau signed for in AAV.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on August 23, 2017, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on August 23, 2017, 11:07:06 AM
Not that this necessarily refutes what you're saying here but I genuinely think that in order to sign someone like Tavares it would ring in at roughly double what Marleau signed for in AAV.

Maybe, but, without Marleau, the Leafs may have been able to create a situation where they had the flexibility to sign him for $10M-$12M per type deal. With Marleau, I don't think they do.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on August 23, 2017, 11:26:57 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on August 23, 2017, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on August 23, 2017, 11:07:06 AM
Not that this necessarily refutes what you're saying here but I genuinely think that in order to sign someone like Tavares it would ring in at roughly double what Marleau signed for in AAV.

Maybe, but, without Marleau, the Leafs may have been able to create a situation where they had the flexibility to sign him for $10M-$12M per type deal. With Marleau, I don't think they do.

But Tavares would likely not sign for just a couple years, so we'd have him for 8 years or something.  By 2019, we'd have cap troubles that we're not likely to have with the Marleau signing. Or course then it may have come down to who do you want? Nylander/Marner (one of) or Tavares, and maybe you pick Tavares over either of those guys anyway.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on August 23, 2017, 11:28:37 AM
If Tavares is super competitively serious about winning the Cup, he should jump ship sooner, rather than later, lest he become an Iginla, Sundin, or the Sedins. Best way I see for him to do that is to rent himself out like a mercenary -- costly but not exorbitantly so -- and call his shot. At a decent number (2-3y/8M-ish) whatever team he chooses has a chance to surround him with suitable depth to achieve a solid Cup run.

I don't think the fit is there with us.

Targeting a weak division and a team with cap space plus a solid backend would do the trick though. Let's say Nashville.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on August 23, 2017, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: herman on August 23, 2017, 11:28:37 AM
If Tavares is super competitively serious about winning the Cup, he should jump ship sooner, rather than later, lest he become an Iginla, Sundin, or the Sedins. Best way I see for him to do that is to rent himself out like a mercenary -- costly but not exorbitantly so -- and call his shot. At a decent number (2-3y/8M-ish) whatever team he chooses has a chance to surround him with suitable depth to achieve a solid Cup run.

I don't think the fit is there with us.

Targeting a weak division and a team with cap space plus a solid backend would do the trick though. Let's say Nashville.

I highly doubt that Tavares would want to be signing short-term deals during his prime income earning years, just for the sake of a maybe-better chance of going deep in the playoffs.

Like, I think some of these guys want to win, but I'm not sure at the expense of long-term security during mid-late 20's.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on August 23, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: Frank E on August 23, 2017, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: herman on August 23, 2017, 11:28:37 AM
If Tavares is super competitively serious about winning the Cup, he should jump ship sooner, rather than later, lest he become an Iginla, Sundin, or the Sedins. Best way I see for him to do that is to rent himself out like a mercenary -- costly but not exorbitantly so -- and call his shot. At a decent number (2-3y/8M-ish) whatever team he chooses has a chance to surround him with suitable depth to achieve a solid Cup run.

I don't think the fit is there with us.

Targeting a weak division and a team with cap space plus a solid backend would do the trick though. Let's say Nashville.

I highly doubt that Tavares would want to be signing short-term deals during his prime income earning years, just for the sake of a maybe-better chance of going deep in the playoffs.

Like, I think some of these guys want to win, but I'm not sure at the expense of long-term security during mid-late 20's.

Want to win the Cup? Break the wheel.

In any case, the writing is on the wall that the Islanders are not going to ever get there again in Tavares' career. He's too good for the team to net difference-making picks.

And before it gets brought up, I understand the NHL and hockey the sport is not the NBA and basketball. The threat of injury is real, and the insurance of having a long-term multi-million dollar deal is going to set you and your next generations up for a good while.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on August 23, 2017, 12:14:16 PM
Quote from: herman on August 23, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: Frank E on August 23, 2017, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: herman on August 23, 2017, 11:28:37 AM
If Tavares is super competitively serious about winning the Cup, he should jump ship sooner, rather than later, lest he become an Iginla, Sundin, or the Sedins. Best way I see for him to do that is to rent himself out like a mercenary -- costly but not exorbitantly so -- and call his shot. At a decent number (2-3y/8M-ish) whatever team he chooses has a chance to surround him with suitable depth to achieve a solid Cup run.

I don't think the fit is there with us.

Targeting a weak division and a team with cap space plus a solid backend would do the trick though. Let's say Nashville.

I highly doubt that Tavares would want to be signing short-term deals during his prime income earning years, just for the sake of a maybe-better chance of going deep in the playoffs.

Like, I think some of these guys want to win, but I'm not sure at the expense of long-term security during mid-late 20's.

Want to win the Cup? Break the wheel.

In any case, the writing is on the wall that the Islanders are not going to ever get there again in Tavares' career. He's too good for the team to net difference-making picks.

And before it gets brought up, I understand the NHL and hockey the sport is not the NBA and basketball. The threat of injury is real, and the insurance of having a long-term multi-million dollar deal is going to set you and your next generations up for a good while.

You just wanted to say "break the wheel".
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on August 23, 2017, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on August 23, 2017, 12:14:16 PM
You just wanted to say "break the wheel".

Better than... "break a leg".

It's that kind of conservatism that kind of keeps hockey, one of the most dynamic and exciting professional sports, mired in boredom.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Big Daddy on August 23, 2017, 03:39:48 PM
I feel John Tavaras falls into the "to nice off a guy category" he is very unlikely to not sign and walk away.  It took Sundin half a season to come to terms with that emotion of walking away from the Leafs.  I feel these type of players would rather get traded so it's out of their hands so to speak, I realize they have NMC but it's not under their pursuit. I would love if we traded for him.

First extend Bozak to 3/18 and JVR to 3/21
NYI get Bozak, JVR, 2018 1st and any 2 of (Carrick, Neilson, Dermott, Rychel, Kapanen, Soshnikov)
Tor gets Tavaras and extend to 6/48

Marleau-Tavaras-Marner
Leivo-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Moore-Fehr
Reilly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Carrick- Rosen
Borgman
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on August 29, 2017, 01:18:09 PM

I've mentioned this before but it looks like the Stadium issue with the Islanders is going to be huge in Tavares' decision:

https://sports.yahoo.com/john-tavares-didnt-reject-islanders-deal-new-arena-key-165310279.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw (https://sports.yahoo.com/john-tavares-didnt-reject-islanders-deal-new-arena-key-165310279.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on August 30, 2017, 09:06:05 AM
I hear Tavares is a Scotiabank scene member and is thrilled about the new name of the Leafs arena.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on September 04, 2017, 09:14:04 AM
Funny
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 04, 2017, 12:18:31 PM
I had first written up this thread last February 2016 when it was mentioned of the possibility of Johnny T becoming a Leaf in 2018.  The original reasons for Tavares' dissatisfaction (and seemingly for the rest of the Islanders) was mostly due to concerns about the Barclays Center not being suitable for the team in general for various reasons, of which I posted:

Circa 2016:
According to New York Post writer Larry Brooks, New York Islanders captain John Tavares may very well become a Toronto Maple Leaf in the year 2018.

Tavares, who's in his fourth year of a six year contract at $5.5M/Y, is frustrated with the Islanders state of affairs.  Firstly, the Islanders play at the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn, but practice in Long Island.  The commute is said to be tiring and many of the players including Tavares, are fed up of this arrangement.  There is currently no practice facility for the hockey team in Brooklyn, strange as it all sounds.

Secondly, considering that the Islanders haven't made much stride in their quest to advance in the playoffs (their early exit last season) and there's no telling how they will fare this post-season neither. 

With Tavares becoming an impending UFA in two years, the thought of him being signed by the Leafs will surely make many fans happy, even though Tavares will be all of 27 by then, but certainly a good addition to a Leaf team that may begin to blossom into a competitive unit.

Who knows?  We'll see.

http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=3658.60
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on September 04, 2017, 12:51:09 PM
He's an UFA next season and he's entering in the sixth year of his six year contract.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: KadriFan on September 04, 2017, 02:00:26 PM
Yep sign Tavares, trade Nylander for a number one dman and look out cup!!!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on September 04, 2017, 02:04:10 PM
Sometimes of course it helps to bring things that come with actual knowledge of the situation and context rather than simply regurgitating what other people write.

So, for instance, just saying the Islanders practice "in Long Island" isn't particularly helpful as Long Island, as the name implies, is a long island(that includes Brooklyn). To be specific the Islanders practice about 25 miles away from Barclays Center in the town of East Meadow which is part of Nassau County. Google says you can make the drive in about 50 minutes. Google also says, for what it's worth, that the drive from the Leafs practice facility in Etobicoke to the ACC in about 38 minutes. Call me a doubting Thomas but something tells me that the extra 10 or 15 minutes it takes to drive from the practice facility to the Arena isn't the biggest issue at play here.

Also, this isn't "strange" particularly. Brooklyn and New York real estate is some of the most expensive in the world. I doubt most teams have downtown practice facilities because of the cost. Again, the Leafs don't have one.

The issue with Tavares, as I said earlier in the thread, is that the Barclays Center is now acknowledged as a temporary home for the Islanders but the Islanders have never been able to make much progress in getting a new arena built in Nassau or Suffolk county. So where the Islanders will play long term is very much up in the air. For Tavares to make a long term commitment to the Islanders he probably wants to know where they'll be playing. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on September 04, 2017, 03:39:28 PM
Sorry, I'm going to derail the conversation a little bit, because I really don't know what Tavares is going to do.

I was doing a comparison between Tavares and McDavid in the OHL.  Both players were granted exceptional status and allowed to enter the OHL early.  I find it interesting that McDavid was labelled as the next face of the NHL early in to his second year, while Tavares had a lot of hype around him, but I don't think anyone thought that he was going to be a player who would challenge Crosby as being the best player on the planet.  Looking at Tavares second year in the OHL, he had 72 goals and 134 points in 67 games, whereas McDavid had 99 points in 56 games.  Oshawa may have been a stronger team than Erie though.

One of the things that separates them is their skating, as Tavares was never known as being a dynamic skater, whereas that is one of McDavid's strengths.  It's funny how scouts can look at a player that is as good as McDavid or Tavares and say one is a generational talent, whereas the other is a franchise center, but probably isn't going to be in the conversation for best player on the planet. 
     
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on September 04, 2017, 04:10:56 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on September 04, 2017, 03:39:28 PM
Sorry, I'm going to derail the conversation a little bit, because I really don't know what Tavares is going to do.

I was doing a comparison between Tavares and McDavid in the OHL.  Both players were granted exceptional status and allowed to enter the OHL early.  I find it interesting that McDavid was labelled as the next face of the NHL early in to his second year, while Tavares had a lot of hype around him, but I don't think anyone thought that he was going to be a player who would challenge Crosby as being the best player on the planet.  Looking at Tavares second year in the OHL, he had 72 goals and 134 points in 67 games, whereas McDavid had 99 points in 56 games.  Oshawa may have been a stronger team than Erie though.

One of the things that separates them is their skating, as Tavares was never known as being a dynamic skater, whereas that is one of McDavid's strengths.  It's funny how scouts can look at a player that is as good as McDavid or Tavares and say one is a generational talent, whereas the other is a franchise center, but probably isn't going to be in the conversation for best player on the planet.       

Obviously there's no way to really measure this and I guess I'd agree that by their draft years McDavid was definitely mentioned as part of that really special sort of generational talent in a way I guess Tavares wasn't but man, I remember there being a ton of hype surrounding Tavares.

For instance, there was definitely talk that if he'd been eligible for the '08 draft that he'd have gone #1. Maybe not Crosby-level but definitely, say, that one step below.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 04, 2017, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on September 04, 2017, 12:51:09 PM
He's an UFA next season and he's entering in the sixth year of his six year contract.


Thread posted circa 2016.  At the time, he was in the fourth year of his contract set to become a UFA in 2018.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 04, 2017, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on September 04, 2017, 02:04:10 PM
Sometimes of course it helps to bring things that come with actual knowledge of the situation and context rather than simply regurgitating what other people write.

So, for instance, just saying the Islanders practice "in Long Island" isn't particularly helpful as Long Island, as the name implies, is a long island(that includes Brooklyn). To be specific the Islanders practice about 25 miles away from Barclays Center in the town of East Meadow which is part of Nassau County. Google says you can make the drive in about 50 minutes. Google also says, for what it's worth, that the drive from the Leafs practice facility in Etobicoke to the ACC in about 38 minutes. Call me a doubting Thomas but something tells me that the extra 10 or 15 minutes it takes to drive from the practice facility to the Arena isn't the biggest issue at play here.

Also, this isn't "strange" particularly. Brooklyn and New York real estate is some of the most expensive in the world. I doubt most teams have downtown practice facilities because of the cost. Again, the Leafs don't have one.

The issue with Tavares, as I said earlier in the thread, is that the Barclays Center is now acknowledged as a temporary home for the Islanders but the Islanders have never been able to make much progress in getting a new arena built in Nassau or Suffolk county. So where the Islanders will play long term is very much up in the air. For Tavares to make a long term commitment to the Islanders he probably wants to know where they'll be playing. 


And why regurgitate a thread when one already exists?

Your search skills need upgrading.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on September 04, 2017, 07:19:21 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on September 04, 2017, 06:55:43 PM
And why regurgitate a thread when one already exists?

I appreciate that paying attention to the finer points of things isn't your strong suit but the previous thread was in the media rumours section, which is where we talk about things mentioned in major media sources. This was posted to the General Rumours and Speculation board for, you know, general rumours and speculation. I didn't link to a media source because, again, I wasn't looking for people to comment on the veracity of a particular source or report but rather to foment a discussion on the general idea of Tavares coming to the team.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on January 31, 2018, 03:52:54 PM
For some reason, I thought Tavares wasn't a UFA until July 2019...but he's actually a UFA THIS JULY.  Holy crap, I still think he'll re-sign in NY, but the Isles must be crapping their pants that he's 5 months away now.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
WARNING. 'Head in the Clouds' comment coming...

I know it would be virtually impossible, but if the Leafs could add Tavares and either Karlsson or Doughty without giving up a big name player, I'd have to think they'd become instant Stanley cup favourites.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on January 31, 2018, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
WARNING. 'Head in the Clouds' comment coming...

I know it would be virtually impossible, but if the Leafs could add Tavares and either Karlsson or Doughty without giving up a big name player, I'd have to think they'd become instant Stanley cup favourites.

The 2 d-men there aren't due until summer of 2019, and let me know how you can fit all those cap hits into the equation. No doubt though, hell of team.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on January 31, 2018, 06:50:17 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
WARNING. 'Head in the Clouds' comment coming...

I know it would be virtually impossible, but if the Leafs could add Tavares and either Karlsson or Doughty without giving up a big name player, I'd have to think they'd become instant Stanley cup favourites.

This is true about the Leafs and roughly 30 other teams.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 07:44:44 PM
That's true, but it'd be much much better if it happened to the Leafs .
???
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on January 31, 2018, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Frank E on January 31, 2018, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
WARNING. 'Head in the Clouds' comment coming...
I know it would be virtually impossible, but if the Leafs could add Tavares and either Karlsson or Doughty without giving up a big name player, I'd have to think they'd become instant Stanley cup favourites.
The 2 d-men there aren't due until summer of 2019, and let me know how you can fit all those cap hits into the equation. No doubt though, hell of team.

If they were somehow able to lure Tavares, I'd think they'd be freed up to move either Marner or Nylander for one of NSH or CAR's many top-pairing calibre defensemen... That's not quite Doughty or Karlsson, but it ain't far off.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 01, 2018, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on January 31, 2018, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Frank E on January 31, 2018, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
WARNING. 'Head in the Clouds' comment coming...
I know it would be virtually impossible, but if the Leafs could add Tavares and either Karlsson or Doughty without giving up a big name player, I'd have to think they'd become instant Stanley cup favourites.
The 2 d-men there aren't due until summer of 2019, and let me know how you can fit all those cap hits into the equation. No doubt though, hell of team.

If they were somehow able to lure Tavares, I'd think they'd be freed up to move either Marner or Nylander for one of NSH or CAR's many top-pairing calibre defensemen... That's not quite Doughty or Karlsson, but it ain't far off.

If the Leafs were able to ice Matthews, Tavares and Kadri up the middle, I'm not really sure they'd need to add a first-pairing defenceman to be a serious threat to win. Doughty will be pushing 30 when he's available and will certainly want max term and probably at least $10 million/year. The way he plays I'm not sure he'll last that long, and that's a pretty big contract to hold. Karlsson is younger, but who knows how he holds up after his Achilles injury.

I don't see any reason to trade Marner or Nylander. The Leafs appear to be doing a credible job of drafting/developing defencemen, and I think we'll start to see more of them making the jump. I'd sign Tavares and take my chances.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 01, 2018, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: LuncheonMeat on February 01, 2018, 01:01:55 PM
If the Leafs were able to ice Matthews, Tavares and Kadri up the middle, I'm not really sure they'd need to add a first-pairing defenceman to be a serious threat to win. Doughty will be pushing 30 when he's available and will certainly want max term and probably at least $10 million/year. The way he plays I'm not sure he'll last that long, and that's a pretty big contract to hold. Karlsson is younger, but who knows how he holds up after his Achilles injury.

I don't see any reason to trade Marner or Nylander. The Leafs appear to be doing a credible job of drafting/developing defencemen, and I think we'll start to see more of them making the jump. I'd sign Tavares and take my chances.

Yup. Barring that, I'm in the camp that the Leafs need to bring in either a shutdowny centre (or two), or a cheaper-younger Bozak, more than they need to blow the cap/assets on D. Centres are hard to find, but easier and cheaper than RHD, especially if we don't need them to score. Tavares would be the optimal option as he can score heaps too, but Backlund is also of interest to me.

I think Zaitsev still has room to grow. He has the skill to do way more, but doesn't yet have the confidence to make those plays. Ozhiganov is already on his way in as another log in the jam, although he likely starts with the Marlies. Carrick is slowly proving he can be a serviceable 6/7th that fills in for one of the top-4 puck movers when they are injured. Dermott was already above Borgman on the chart, but both players have the LR flexibility, so no harm in keeping both.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on February 01, 2018, 03:00:26 PM
Quote from: LuncheonMeat on February 01, 2018, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on January 31, 2018, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Frank E on January 31, 2018, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on January 31, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
WARNING. 'Head in the Clouds' comment coming...
I know it would be virtually impossible, but if the Leafs could add Tavares and either Karlsson or Doughty without giving up a big name player, I'd have to think they'd become instant Stanley cup favourites.
The 2 d-men there aren't due until summer of 2019, and let me know how you can fit all those cap hits into the equation. No doubt though, hell of team.

If they were somehow able to lure Tavares, I'd think they'd be freed up to move either Marner or Nylander for one of NSH or CAR's many top-pairing calibre defensemen... That's not quite Doughty or Karlsson, but it ain't far off.

If the Leafs were able to ice Matthews, Tavares and Kadri up the middle, I'm not really sure they'd need to add a first-pairing defenceman to be a serious threat to win. Doughty will be pushing 30 when he's available and will certainly want max term and probably at least $10 million/year. The way he plays I'm not sure he'll last that long, and that's a pretty big contract to hold. Karlsson is younger, but who knows how he holds up after his Achilles injury.

I don't see any reason to trade Marner or Nylander. The Leafs appear to be doing a credible job of drafting/developing defencemen, and I think we'll start to see more of them making the jump. I'd sign Tavares and take my chances.

I wasn't suggesting getting a Karlsson or Doughty.

I guess my thinking is that if the Leafs were to add Tavares to their group of forwards, they'd have a lot of cap dollars allocated to high-end talent up front... Two top-pick centers and three other excellent forwards in Marner, Nylander, and Kadri would be a lot -- you're definitely not re-signing Gardiner in that circumstance and the blueline looks weaker, so... trading one of Marner or Nylander for a Slavin, Faulk, Pesce, Ekholm, Lindholm, Manson doesn't seem crazy to me.

If they were to get Tavares.

Which they won't.   
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:21:47 PM
I think we should refrain from all Tavares speculation until June 30th if he's not signed yet. Then it's all hands on deck.  ;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: louisstamos on February 01, 2018, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:21:47 PM
I think we should refrain from all Tavares speculation until June 30th if he's not signed yet. Then it's all hands on deck.  ;D

At least it's been relatively reserved thus far?  Remember the Stamkos thread?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:29:24 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on February 01, 2018, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:21:47 PM
I think we should refrain from all Tavares speculation until June 30th if he's not signed yet. Then it's all hands on deck.  ;D

At least it's been relatively reserved thus far?  Remember the Stamkos thread?

True enough, Stamkos was a huge tease too, takes it almost to the deadline and then signs in Tampa.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on February 09, 2018, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:29:24 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on February 01, 2018, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:21:47 PM
I think we should refrain from all Tavares speculation until June 30th if he's not signed yet. Then it's all hands on deck.  ;D

At least it's been relatively reserved thus far?  Remember the Stamkos thread?

True enough, Stamkos was a huge tease too, takes it almost to the deadline and then signs in Tampa.
Funny but I don't get Tavares, every time I watch the Islanders he is near invisible, but what do I know, I felt the same way about Gretzky. Perhaps some of these guys are so good they make what they do seem easy. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on February 10, 2018, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Highlander on February 09, 2018, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:29:24 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on February 01, 2018, 03:26:05 PM
Quote from: Zee on February 01, 2018, 03:21:47 PM
I think we should refrain from all Tavares speculation until June 30th if he's not signed yet. Then it's all hands on deck.  ;D

At least it's been relatively reserved thus far?  Remember the Stamkos thread?

True enough, Stamkos was a huge tease too, takes it almost to the deadline and then signs in Tampa.
Funny but I don't get Tavares, every time I watch the Islanders he is near invisible, but what do I know, I felt the same way about Gretzky. Perhaps some of these guys are so good they make what they do seem easy.
Seriously about Gretzky? [emoji23] He had like 215 points one season.


From 1981-82 to 85-86 he averaged 207 points a season. Man.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on February 10, 2018, 06:42:57 PM
I have to admit the Leafs were so bad for so long that I stopped watching the game for a long time (about 12 years).  For 5 of those I chose to live without a TV.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 20, 2018, 10:59:06 AM
Are you guys ready for the onslaught of media yammering about Tavares to Toronto? The Leafs host the Islanders this Thursday.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:03:32 AM
Quote from: herman on February 20, 2018, 10:59:06 AM
Are you guys ready for the onslaught of media yammering about Tavares to Toronto? The Leafs host the Islanders this Thursday.

It's actually amazing how little we've heard about it from the media so far.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 11:05:31 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:03:32 AM
Quote from: herman on February 20, 2018, 10:59:06 AM
Are you guys ready for the onslaught of media yammering about Tavares to Toronto? The Leafs host the Islanders this Thursday.

It's actually amazing how little we've heard about it from the media so far.

Thankfully, that's largely due to the fact the Leafs don't have a glaring need for a 1st line C.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 11:05:31 AM
Thankfully, that's largely due to the fact the Leafs don't have a glaring need for a 1st line C.

I mean it's not like that stopped the speculation with Stamkos last year. I just think we heard a heck of a lot more about him then we did about Tavares. And Tavares is a lot more likely to hit the open market (or at least he should be).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 20, 2018, 11:08:32 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 11:05:31 AM
Thankfully, that's largely due to the fact the Leafs don't have a glaring need for a 1st line C.

I mean it's not like that stopped the speculation with Stamkos last year. I just think we heard a heck of a lot more about him then we did about Tavares. And Tavares is a lot more likely to hit the open market (or at least he should be).

Big difference with the Stamkos speculation was we didn't have the first overall pick established yet.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:10:48 AM
Quote from: herman on February 20, 2018, 11:08:32 AM
Big difference with the Stamkos speculation was we didn't have the first overall pick established yet.

The speculation started very early before Matthews sure but getting him didn't change anything. We still heard about Stamkos a lot throughout last years season. I guess playing Tampa more than we play the Islanders is a big part of that.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on February 20, 2018, 11:12:53 AM
So what does everyone think he'll realistically get on the open market? I've having troubles seeing him come in for less than $9.5M/year on a long-term deal.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 20, 2018, 11:13:27 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:10:48 AM
Quote from: herman on February 20, 2018, 11:08:32 AM
Big difference with the Stamkos speculation was we didn't have the first overall pick established yet.

The speculation started very early before Matthews sure but getting him didn't change anything. We still heard about Stamkos a lot throughout last years season. I guess playing Tampa more than we play the Islanders is a big part of that.

His social media games didn't not add fuel to the fires.

Him bailing on any further UFA proceedings right after he heard our (very tempered) pitch, was pretty telling to me that he would've landed here if we didn't have Matthews. Haha, Detroit.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on February 20, 2018, 11:18:26 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on February 20, 2018, 11:12:53 AM
So what does everyone think he'll realistically get on the open market? I've having troubles seeing him come in for less than $9.5M/year on a long-term deal.

If he's just after cash? I bet he could get 11 or 12 per. If you're Vegas how would you not just write him a blank check?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 20, 2018, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on February 20, 2018, 11:12:53 AM
So what does everyone think he'll realistically get on the open market? I've having troubles seeing him come in for less than $9.5M/year on a long-term deal.

Somewhere between paying him his jersey number per year (9.1M AAV), or his jersey number in total salary (13M/7).

He has been reported to not care as much about how much he's paid as he is about winning though.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 11:10:48 AM
The speculation started very early before Matthews sure but getting him didn't change anything. We still heard about Stamkos a lot throughout last years season. I guess playing Tampa more than we play the Islanders is a big part of that.

Maybe, but having Matthews for the last 2 years of his contract didn't hurt, either - especially once he established himself. The Stamkos speculation really started going into the 2nd last season of his last contract, but didn't really get going in earnest until closer to the end of that season/when he didn't sign an extension that summer. And, of course, while landing Matthews in the weeks leading up to Stamkos becoming a UFA changed the Leafs' position, the media had fully bought into the Stamkos to Toronto narrative, and they weren't going to back down in the home stretch.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
And, of course, while landing Matthews in the weeks leading up to Stamkos becoming a UFA changed the Leafs' position, the media had fully bought into the Stamkos to Toronto narrative, and they weren't going to back down in the home stretch.

I had a brain fart. For some reason I thought Stamkos signed his new deal just last summer, not two summers ago. Man time flies.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on February 20, 2018, 01:11:02 PM
I just had the same thought. I was naively thinking he'd have a similar deal to Stamkos, but given that was two years ago, things have changed. Tavares is more of a complete player too.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 01:15:06 PM
Quote from: Bullfrog on February 20, 2018, 01:11:02 PM
I just had the same thought. I was naively thinking he'd have a similar deal to Stamkos, but given that was two years ago, things have changed. Tavares is more of a complete player too.

Stamkos took a pretty big Stanley Cup/tax friendly contract from Tampa though. Toronto's offer to him was reportedly 7 years @ $10.5mil per. Tavares would definitely get offers like that too, if not more.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on February 20, 2018, 08:36:20 PM
I was listening to prime time the other day and the question was asked 'name a prime time ufa who signed their mega deal with a new team since the last cba' and they couldn't name one. I can't think of one either. These stars all seem to be resigning with their own teams. And I'm not talking Marleau level ufas. I'm talking these 7-8 year mega deals for the top echelon of players.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 08:50:48 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on February 20, 2018, 08:36:20 PM
I was listening to prime time the other day and the question was asked 'name a prime time ufa who signed their mega deal with a new team since the last cba' and they couldn't name one. I can't think of one either. These stars all seem to be resigning with their own teams. And I'm not talking Marleau level ufas. I'm talking these 7-8 year mega deals for the top echelon of players.

Parise and Suter would be the more recent ones, and those were just before this current CBA. I really don't think there's anyone who can really be considered a superstar since then.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on February 20, 2018, 08:58:09 PM
Suban, toews, Kane, stamkos.... those are the kind of players I'm thinking of. Even kessel I suppose... those 8 mil + type contracts
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 21, 2018, 12:12:40 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 08:50:48 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on February 20, 2018, 08:36:20 PM
I was listening to prime time the other day and the question was asked 'name a prime time ufa who signed their mega deal with a new team since the last cba' and they couldn't name one. I can't think of one either. These stars all seem to be resigning with their own teams. And I'm not talking Marleau level ufas. I'm talking these 7-8 year mega deals for the top echelon of players.

Parise and Suter would be the more recent ones, and those were just before this current CBA. I really don't think there's anyone who can really be considered a superstar since then.
Def considered stars when they left their teams and signed with Minnie...That's the last 2 I can remember.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 21, 2018, 12:39:42 PM
Mirtle takes a stab at seeing what the salary cap implications are of adding Tavares.

https://theathletic.com/248317/2018/02/21/mirtle-could-the-maple-leafs-find-a-way-to-fit-john-tavares-under-the-cap/

Simply put, next year its no problem.  The year after that will be tight as we'll be paying quite a bit of money for Matthews-Tavares-Nylander-Marner plus Marleau and Kadri, leaving us very thin on the backend (Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott, Borgman, Liljegren, Carrick)

Other notes:

His expected contract costs (per year)
Tavares @ $11M
Matthews @ $11.75M
Nylander @ $6.85M
Marner @ $7M

He has Glendenning in our lineup  :'(
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 12:46:02 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on February 21, 2018, 12:39:42 PM
He has Glendenning in our lineup  :'(

Yeah, I think it's pretty close to a sure-thing too. Especially since Gauthier looks like he dropped the ball in his audition.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 21, 2018, 01:06:35 PM
Quote from: herman on February 20, 2018, 10:59:06 AM
Are you guys ready for the onslaught of media yammering about Tavares to Toronto? The Leafs host the Islanders this Thursday.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Lc7KdwjinEJj2/200.gif)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Groundskeeper Willie on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 12:46:02 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on February 21, 2018, 12:39:42 PM
He has Glendenning in our lineup  :'(

Yeah, I think it's pretty close to a sure-thing too. Especially since Gauthier looks like he dropped the ball in his audition.
I really don't know a lot about this guy.  Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him. I get that his contact is too long and maybe half a mil too high, but what exactly is the issue with his play? The little I have heard makes him sound a bit like Komorov but a centre, younger and cheaper.

If it was something like Martin and a 4th for him would that be considered an OK trade? I doubt Detroit gets their asking price of a second rounder.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 21, 2018, 02:07:37 PM
If the Leafs need a 4th line centre just in case Moore can't do it, they could always bring up Ben Smith as long as he stays on the 4th line. He's the captain of the Marlies is good on the pk and decent faceoff guy. Could even move Leo to centre and put Leivo on the wing. I think we have enough options internally. Now if they can trade Matt Martin for Glendenning, I'd probably do it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him.

Have "traditionalists" ever met a 4th liner they didn't like?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on February 21, 2018, 03:33:31 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him.

Have "traditionalists" ever met a 4th liner they didn't like?

Seth Griffith  :(
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: herman on February 21, 2018, 03:33:31 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him.

Have "traditionalists" ever met a 4th liner they didn't like?

Seth Griffith  :(

Who?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 21, 2018, 04:31:04 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: herman on February 21, 2018, 03:33:31 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him.

Have "traditionalists" ever met a 4th liner they didn't like?

Seth Griffith  :(

Who?

To be fair, you didn't say fourth liner in the NHL.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on February 21, 2018, 04:34:15 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on February 21, 2018, 04:31:04 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: herman on February 21, 2018, 03:33:31 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him.

Have "traditionalists" ever met a 4th liner they didn't like?

Seth Griffith  :(

Who?

To be fair, you didn't say fourth liner in the NHL.

^ This is quality posting, right here.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Groundskeeper Willie on February 21, 2018, 09:11:20 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 01:32:35 PM
Analytics guys seem down on him, but the traditionalists seem to like him.

Have "traditionalists" ever met a 4th liner they didn't like?
Sure, but fourth liners matter still. Is he a good fourth line/pk specialist with a bad contact or is he just a bad player?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Crake on February 21, 2018, 09:11:20 PM
Sure, but fourth liners matter still. Is he a good fourth line/pk specialist with a bad contact or is he just a bad player?

Oh for sure I don't disagree with that. I'm just saying that generally speaking "traditionalists" love to say positive things about 4th liners who look like they're trying hard, regardless of if they're actually good NHLers. And by all accounts Glendening is not a good NHLer. Not even a good 4th liner. His numbers are roughly in line with someone like Ben Smith, and I think we can all agree that Smith isn't a NHLer.

You should easily be able to find someone who can provide his level of play or better for $1mil or less on a 1-year deal every summer, just like we did with Moore.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2018, 09:26:40 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 09:24:28 PM
You should easily be able to find someone who can provide his level of play or better for $1mil or less on a 1-year deal every summer, just like we did with Moore.

Yeah. His contract is probably the biggest negative, considering the market for players of his ability. If the Wings retained 50%, it would be a palatable hit, but it would still be two seasons too long. If he was on an expiring deal, he might be an interesting depth addition (with a different coach, though).

He's a replaceable part - and relatively easy one at that - who the Wings and others have overvalued.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: louisstamos on February 22, 2018, 10:58:51 AM
This is my perspective - Brian Boyle is arguably the best 4th line centre in the league, and we got him last trade deadline for a 2nd round pick.

If Boyle is worth a 2nd, there's no chance Glendenning should be worth a 2nd - especially with that contract.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: nutman on May 22, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
Now that Lou is on the island, I don't see us getting Tavares.  It  was a dream I knew as a Leaf fan would fall apart somehow, and it did.  Oh well I guess the center issue will go another route.  Bummer though... Them three would have been awesome.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on May 22, 2018, 12:58:02 PM
Keep the faith nutman, never say never. ;)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on May 22, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: nutman on May 22, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
Now that Lou is on the island, I don't see us getting Tavares.  It  was a dream I knew as a Leaf fan would fall apart somehow, and it did.  Oh well I guess the center issue will go another route.  Bummer though... Them three would have been awesome.

Lou being here, the Islanders, or any other team doesn't really have that much of an impact on things. The truth is, if Tavares has already decided he'd prefer to stay with NYI, whoever was in charge would have been able to get that done. If he already decided to hit the open market, the Leafs still have as much chance to sign him as they did before. And, if he's undecided, Lou isn't going to move the needle much, as the reason he's undecided is not going to be significantly impacted by having another person as part of the front office without the core group of decision makers being removed or significantly altered.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on May 22, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 22, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: nutman on May 22, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
Now that Lou is on the island, I don't see us getting Tavares.  It  was a dream I knew as a Leaf fan would fall apart somehow, and it did.  Oh well I guess the center issue will go another route.  Bummer though... Them three would have been awesome.

Lou being here, the Islanders, or any other team doesn't really have that much of an impact on things. The truth is, if Tavares has already decided he'd prefer to stay with NYI, whoever was in charge would have been able to get that done. If he already decided to hit the open market, the Leafs still have as much chance to sign him as they did before. And, if he's undecided, Lou isn't going to move the needle much, as the reason he's undecided is not going to be significantly impacted by having another person as part of the front office without the core group of decision makers being removed or significantly altered.

I think Lou being in NY might alter the equation for Tavares staying put.  The Islanders have been viewed as a joke organization with no direction for quite a few years now.  With Lou in place, at least they are now perceived as having a strong voice at the top, no more outside distractions with the team, everyone pulling in the same direction yada yada yada.  I think the biggest reason Tavares would have for leaving is the fact that the Islanders had no clear direction with Garth Snow running things, at least now Lou can sell him on a vision of bringing back the Islander glory years, complete with cap circumvention in some way shape or form.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 22, 2018, 01:40:41 PM

This speculation all seems to tie into the idea that some Leafs fans had that Lamoriello has some svengali like hold over people despite the fact that it really never manifested itself in actual deals for the Leafs.

I agree with busta. The chance that this really changes things is pretty slim.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on May 22, 2018, 01:43:29 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 22, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 22, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: nutman on May 22, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
Now that Lou is on the island, I don't see us getting Tavares.  It  was a dream I knew as a Leaf fan would fall apart somehow, and it did.  Oh well I guess the center issue will go another route.  Bummer though... Them three would have been awesome.

Lou being here, the Islanders, or any other team doesn't really have that much of an impact on things. The truth is, if Tavares has already decided he'd prefer to stay with NYI, whoever was in charge would have been able to get that done. If he already decided to hit the open market, the Leafs still have as much chance to sign him as they did before. And, if he's undecided, Lou isn't going to move the needle much, as the reason he's undecided is not going to be significantly impacted by having another person as part of the front office without the core group of decision makers being removed or significantly altered.

I think Lou being in NY might alter the equation for Tavares staying put.  The Islanders have been viewed as a joke organization with no direction for quite a few years now.  With Lou in place, at least they are now perceived as having a strong voice at the top, no more outside distractions with the team, everyone pulling in the same direction yada yada yada.  I think the biggest reason Tavares would have for leaving is the fact that the Islanders had no clear direction with Garth Snow running things, at least now Lou can sell him on a vision of bringing back the Islander glory years, complete with cap circumvention in some way shape or form.
He needs to go, he owes the Islanders nothing. To little to late. Terribly ownership over the years, a bad arena, Dipietro, bad management, why not make your current backup a GM?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 22, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 22, 2018, 01:38:05 PMI think the biggest reason Tavares would have for leaving is the fact that the Islanders had no clear direction with Garth Snow running things, at least now Lou can sell him on a vision of bringing back the Islander glory years, complete with cap circumvention in some way shape or form.

I don't really think that makes sense. Lamoriello can "sell" him on that...how? What evidence is there that he's any more or less persuasive on that front than Snow would be? What specifics could he lay out?

I'm guessing that if Tavares ever talked to Snow about the team's "direction" that Snow had an answer and there's no reason to think that Lamoriello's answer would be any better.

Especially for a middling team there is no easy path to go from middling, where the Islanders are, to being great(and there's absolutely no way any team can realistically reach the heights of the Islanders at their best). Usually that would involve tearing things down, something Tavares probably wouldn't want to be a part of.

This seems to be more attribution of magic powers to Lamoriello and awfully light on the specifics of this "direction".
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 22, 2018, 03:00:16 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 22, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
I don't really think that makes sense. Lamoriello can "sell" him on that...how? What evidence is there that he's any more or less persuasive on that front than Snow would be? What specifics could he lay out?

I'm guessing that if Tavares ever talked to Snow about the team's "direction" that Snow had an answer and there's no reason to think that Lamoriello's answer would be any better.

Especially for a middling team there is no easy path to go from middling, where the Islanders are, to being great(and there's absolutely no way any team can realistically reach the heights of the Islanders at their best). Usually that would involve tearing things down, something Tavares probably wouldn't want to be a part of.

This seems to be more attribution of magic powers to Lamoriello and awfully light on the specifics of this "direction".

Hockey players aren't exactly the brightest bunch though. I mean the fact that Tavares is even considering re-signing with the team sorta proves that. I wouldn't be surprised if he buys into whatever mumbo-jumbo Lou tells him. Even if Lou and Snow are basically saying the same thing it'll sound more impressive coming from Lou's mouth.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 22, 2018, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 22, 2018, 03:00:16 PM
Hockey players aren't exactly the brightest bunch though. I mean the fact that Tavares is even considering re-signing with the team sorta proves that. I wouldn't be surprised if he buys into whatever mumbo-jumbo Lou tells him. Even if Lou and Snow are basically saying the same thing it'll sound more impressive coming from Lou's mouth.

No arguments on the hockey players being dopes point but I wouldn't necessarily chalk up Tavares considering the Islanders to that. Maybe he likes living there, maybe he's got a girlfriend who does, maybe he's generally loyal to the organization...there are real world considerations.

For all of the crap I gave Shane Doan over the years the worst I could really say is that I don't think he ever really cared too much about winning(or playing in front of a lively crowd). Making his decisions based on where he wants to live or wanting to keep his kids in school are fair considerations even if they fall outside of the hyper-competiveness we might want out of athletes.

Because it's not like we've heard anything to the effect of "Since talking to Lamoriello, Tavares is a no on staying but now he's a maybe or yes". We might, but I still think Snow could have pulled a lot of the same strings. Leaving wasn't going to be an easy decision either way.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on May 22, 2018, 03:15:06 PM
I think we also should remember that these players have agents for a reason, and Tavares' agent could be telling him to sit tight and wait for the offers, then make a deal with the Islanders based on market, if indeed he's comfortable with the organization and wants to stay.

Really, for all we know, Tavares has no intention of moving on from New York.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 22, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Tavares' fiancee is from Ontario if that changes the picture in any way.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on May 22, 2018, 03:24:09 PM
Quote from: herman on May 22, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Tavares' fiancee is from Ontario if that changes the picture in any way.

Is she a Leafs or Sens fan?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 22, 2018, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 22, 2018, 03:24:09 PM
Quote from: herman on May 22, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
Tavares' fiancee is from Ontario if that changes the picture in any way.

Is she a Leafs or Sens fan?

She's from the Durham region as far as I can tell. I don't know how far the radius of senators fandom extends, but I'd hazard she's not a sens fan.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 22, 2018, 03:45:49 PM

Right, so, without needing to talk anymore about someone who isn't a public figure I think I can amend that part of my comment to "He may have non-hockey reasons for wanting to stay with NYI that are unchanged by this development".
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on May 22, 2018, 04:20:04 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 22, 2018, 03:45:49 PM

Right, so, without needing to talk anymore about someone who isn't a public figure I think I can amend that part of my comment to "He may have non-hockey reasons for wanting to stay with NYI that are unchanged by this development".

Sunday night dinners at Garth's house?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on May 23, 2018, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on May 22, 2018, 04:20:04 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 22, 2018, 03:45:49 PM

Right, so, without needing to talk anymore about someone who isn't a public figure I think I can amend that part of my comment to "He may have non-hockey reasons for wanting to stay with NYI that are unchanged by this development".

Sunday night dinners at Garth's house?
Come on now that would be a Snow job!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 09:36:34 AM
https://theathletic.com/370615/2018/05/28/the-arguments-for-and-against-toronto-signing-john-tavares/

Assuming he is open to coming here:
a) would you want him?
b) what is your upper limit offer?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on May 28, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 09:36:34 AM
https://theathletic.com/370615/2018/05/28/the-arguments-for-and-against-toronto-signing-john-tavares/

Assuming he is open to coming here:
a) would you want him?
b) what is your upper limit offer?

a) Yes.
b) 10M x 7
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 28, 2018, 09:50:33 AM

I'd be open to it if he came at a discount. Coco-Puffs probably has it with the upper limit I'd be good with.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on May 28, 2018, 09:54:39 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 28, 2018, 09:50:33 AM

I'd be open to it if he came at a discount. Coco-Puffs probably has it with the upper limit I'd be good with.

Yeah, as much as I want the Stamkos money (8.5M x 8 ) he's not going to leave THAT much on the table.  He will get offers up to 12M I'd think.  10M would be a discount (while still being 8 figures) which is probably as low as he'd go.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 28, 2018, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on May 28, 2018, 09:54:39 AM
Yeah, as much as I want the Stamkos money (8.5M x 8 ) he's not going to leave THAT much on the table.  He will get offers up to 12M I'd think.  10M would be a discount (while still being 8 figures) which is probably as low as he'd go.

I think you're probably right about that but all I'd say is I've given up on trying to say with any certainty what sort of deals guys will or won't sign or with who. I don't think there's as much rhyme or reason as we'd like to think.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on May 28, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

Problem is we'd have to have a lot of D on low numbers if Tavares is getting 12M.  With Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander, that's a huge chunk of the cap.  Kadri is on a great cap number, but we'd probably have to let Gardiner go before his next contract and have someone way cheaper eating up his minutes.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on May 28, 2018, 10:39:49 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.


Holl will be 26.75 years old when the season starts and he has two NHL games under his belt. Time to move on.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
Quote from: Zee on May 28, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

Problem is we'd have to have a lot of D on low numbers if Tavares is getting 12M.  With Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander, that's a huge chunk of the cap.  Kadri is on a great cap number, but we'd probably have to let Gardiner go before his next contract and have someone way cheaper eating up his minutes.

Hey there, have you heard of this guy named Travis Dermott? or trade Zaitsev?

The thing is, I don't believe we need an expensive back end (i.e. money for points). We just need better skaters/puckhandlers and a forward group that has a scheme to support the break out.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on May 28, 2018, 10:42:12 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
Quote from: Zee on May 28, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

Problem is we'd have to have a lot of D on low numbers if Tavares is getting 12M.  With Tavares, Matthews, Marner and Nylander, that's a huge chunk of the cap.  Kadri is on a great cap number, but we'd probably have to let Gardiner go before his next contract and have someone way cheaper eating up his minutes.

Hey there, have you heard of this guy named Travis Dermott? or trade Zaitsev?

The thing is, I don't believe we need an expensive back end (i.e. money for points). We just need better skaters/puckhandlers and a forward group that has a scheme to support the break out.


Yes Dermott is on a nice ELC now, but eventually he'll get paid as well.  We'll need to find more Dermotts (Liljegren?), and have guys like Borgman, Holl etc that won't cost much.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:47:55 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on May 28, 2018, 10:39:49 AM
Holl will be 26.75 years old when the season starts and he has two NHL games under his belt. Time to move on.

He's had a steady diet of shutdown minutes all season on a championship-caliber team, and he's more than 10 years younger than Ron Hainsey, and he's basically a free player.

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1000177754682294273

He's been doing it alongside Martin Marincin
https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/1000226835970576385

Holl's biggest believers are Dubas and Keefe.

(also, he's a Goal per Game player in the NHL, but that's a very very small sample, albeit an achievement that very few call ups have accomplished, let alone one on the defense).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 28, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:47:55 AM
He's had a steady diet of shutdown minutes all season on a championship-caliber team, and he's more than 10 years younger than Ron Hainsey, and he's basically a free player.

And with any luck next year the Leafs will finally achieve what we've all hoped they would for so long and win the Calder Cup.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 11:04:29 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 28, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:47:55 AM
He's had a steady diet of shutdown minutes all season on a championship-caliber team, and he's more than 10 years younger than Ron Hainsey, and he's basically a free player.

And with any luck next year the Leafs will finally achieve what we've all hoped they would for so long and win the Calder Cup.

Step one to Babcock's heart: be old.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 28, 2018, 11:08:19 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 11:04:29 AM
Step one to Babcock's heart: be old.

I'm not sure you're always making the Babcock argument you think you are.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on May 28, 2018, 11:08:19 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 11:04:29 AM
Step one to Babcock's heart: be old.

I'm not sure you're always making the Babcock argument you think you are.

Seeing as how my statement didn't even qualify as an argument, I am just Monday riffing.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 28, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 11:22:38 AM
Seeing as how my statement didn't even qualify as an argument, I am just Monday riffing.

Moy Aussie.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 28, 2018, 11:29:16 AM
I'd imagine teams will be trying to use Kopitar's contract as a comparable here. He signed for 8 years, $80mil 2 years ago. The first 7 years were for $73mil, so that's an AAV of $10.4mil . I know the cap has gone up and all but I've always felt like that effects the mid-tier guys more than the top-tier guys, and McDavid signing for $12.5mil instead of something like $14mil still keeps non top-5 players in the league below $11mil I think.

So I could stomach $11mil but obviously I'd be pushing for something a little under.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 11:50:51 AM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-tavares-definitely-listening-islanders-pitch/

Quote14. With Brandon Pridham promoted and Laurence Gilman hired, the Maple Leafs are now looking to replace Mark Hunter's spot in the organization. There's a ton of interest. As Jeff Marek pointed out, a lot of the educated guessing surrounds Wes Clark, and we're not talking about the retired U.S. Army General. Clark, 35, was Dubas's first hire at OHL Sault Ste. Marie and later came to Toronto. He left for the Florida Panthers in 2016, where he is an amateur scout. (Cue the conspiracy music — he's also tight with John Tavares.)

Refresher from PPP (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/twigs/2016/7/23/12263154/leafs-consultant-wes-clark-moves-on-to-the-florida-panthers) on Wes Clark (http://www.theathletetrainingcentre.com/wes_clark.php) and his time as a consultant with the Leafs
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on May 28, 2018, 12:00:29 PM
If Tavares said he'd come to Toronto for $12 million for 7 years and not a penny less, I'd welcome him to the team.  The Athletic article demonstrates you can make the cap math work even when Matthews, Nylander and Marner are all getting paid (at $11, $7 and $7.5 respectively, which seem like reasonable estimates). 

The Athletic article does put Gardiner at $5 million in that year, which I am skeptical of.  It seems likely that Gardiner will get at least $6 if not $7 million as a UFA.

If Gardiner does want $7, hypothetically, would the team be better in the long run if you keep him and trade one of Marner and/or Nylander for cheaper help?  Or is it better to let Gardiner go?  Acquiring defensive talent just seems so difficult these days whereas we have the center talent to boost any wingers that play with them. 

If adding Tavares meant that we wound up trading Marner or Nylander, doing so would seem to be a good outcome to me.  Tavares seems much more valuable as a rarely-injured, near-ppg center than either of them will likely ever be.  But the assets that you get back by trading either one of them in their primes (a first round pick, a second round pick plus a top prospect?) would be incredibly valuable for maintaining cheap depth for years to come.

And of course, the idea of throwing Matthews on Tavares' wing while Marner plays with Kadri in order to press for a goal during the 3rd period is pretty exciting. 

So overall, Tavares for $12 seems like a pretty easy call for me.  Now, Tavares for $13 or $14?  That seems tougher.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on May 28, 2018, 12:02:23 PM
I'm pretty comfortable with $10m X 7. 

Having said that, this signing is likely to have an inflationary effect on the rest of the re-signings that are going to go down shortly...so that might be a little concerning.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: AvroArrow on May 28, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
1yr @ 14 with an implied agreement to re-sign for 8x10
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: pmrules on May 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on May 28, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
1yr @ 14 with an implied agreement to re-sign for 8x10

I like this.

If you sign a UFA on July 1, can you re-sign that player to a multi year deal on July 2?

1 Year @ $14M on July 1 for 2018-2019
8 years @ $10M on July 2 which takes effect 2019-2020+.

It's in essence a 9 year deal.

That's something I could live with for Tavares.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on May 28, 2018, 01:32:52 PM
Quote from: pmrules on May 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on May 28, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
1yr @ 14 with an implied agreement to re-sign for 8x10

I like this.

If you sign a UFA on July 1, can you re-sign that player to a multi year deal on July 2?

1 Year @ $14M on July 1 for 2018-2019
8 years @ $10M on July 2 which takes effect 2019-2020+.

It's in essence a 9 year deal.

That's something I could live with for Tavares.

What would Tavares and his agent say?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on May 28, 2018, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: pmrules on May 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on May 28, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
1yr @ 14 with an implied agreement to re-sign for 8x10

I like this.

If you sign a UFA on July 1, can you re-sign that player to a multi year deal on July 2?

1 Year @ $14M on July 1 for 2018-2019
8 years @ $10M on July 2 which takes effect 2019-2020+.

It's in essence a 9 year deal.

That's something I could live with for Tavares.

Is that even allowed?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: louisstamos on May 28, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 28, 2018, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: pmrules on May 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on May 28, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
1yr @ 14 with an implied agreement to re-sign for 8x10

I like this.

If you sign a UFA on July 1, can you re-sign that player to a multi year deal on July 2?

1 Year @ $14M on July 1 for 2018-2019
8 years @ $10M on July 2 which takes effect 2019-2020+.

It's in essence a 9 year deal.

That's something I could live with for Tavares.

Is that even allowed?

If I'm not mistaken - technically yes, but not on July 2nd.  Players on 1 year deals can sign an extension halfway through the season.  So, January 1st-ish.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on May 28, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: Frank E on May 28, 2018, 12:02:23 PM
I'm pretty comfortable with $10m X 7. 

Having said that, this signing is likely to have an inflationary effect on the rest of the re-signings that are going to go down shortly...so that might be a little concerning.

I would be comfortable with this too.  However, one is typically uncomfortable with UFA signings.  If the only option was Tavares at $12 or no Tavares, would you sign him?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 28, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on May 28, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
If I'm not mistaken - technically yes, but not on July 2nd.  Players on 1 year deals can sign an extension halfway through the season.  So, January 1st-ish.

Any player on a 1-year contract would have to wait until January 1st to sign an extension, yes.

Also, if the league suspected that the 2nd contract had been negotiated and agreed to alongside the 1st contract they could potentially say it circumvents the salary cap and deny it and/or punish the Leafs for it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on May 28, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on May 28, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on May 28, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
If I'm not mistaken - technically yes, but not on July 2nd.  Players on 1 year deals can sign an extension halfway through the season.  So, January 1st-ish.

Any player on a 1-year contract would have to wait until January 1st to sign an extension, yes.

Also, if the league suspected that the 2nd contract had been negotiated and agreed to alongside the 1st contract they could potentially say it circumvents the salary cap and deny it and/or punish the Leafs for it.

Would be a risk for Tavares to take.  Say he signs said 1 year deal and then suffers a career ending injury in November.  Bye bye 8 year deal in Jan.  Long shot of happening but still, I'd think the player and agent would want the guarantee of a 7 year deal from another team (and 8 from the Islanders if he stays)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on May 28, 2018, 02:56:04 PM
Quote from: princedpw on May 28, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: Frank E on May 28, 2018, 12:02:23 PM
I'm pretty comfortable with $10m X 7. 

Having said that, this signing is likely to have an inflationary effect on the rest of the re-signings that are going to go down shortly...so that might be a little concerning.

I would be comfortable with this too.  However, one is typically uncomfortable with UFA signings.  If the only option was Tavares at $12 or no Tavares, would you sign him?

I think he would solidify the middle for this team for the next 7 years, so I'd really to see him signed...but he's a 1 PPG guy, and probably shouldn't be considered in the $12m price range...I'm in at 10'ish, but I'm out at $11m.  I think you set yourself up for problems with what you pay Matthews next season if you bring in Tavares at $11m +.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on May 28, 2018, 04:37:45 PM
If it was guaranteed you could have Tavares at 7 x 11M this summer OR wait a summer and have Doughty at 7 x 11M which would you choose? I would go with our area of weakness our defense and choose Doughty.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on May 28, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

I'm not high on Holl or anything else RHD in the system... but I'd still go to $12m for Tavares. There's no RHD option out there that'd move the needle as much as JT, so that's where I'd look to make a substantial investment. If any of Tulloch's ideas for good RHD upgrades -- Pysyk, Demers, Petry, Gudas -- come to pass, great, and Tavares doesn't get in the way of that. If nothing like that happens, Tavares plus the existing guys in the system makes the team way better than anything else out there that I can see.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on May 28, 2018, 04:59:58 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on May 28, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Quote from: herman on May 28, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
I'd be okay going up to 12M for Tavares, even if it bites into our defense budget. The cap is set to go up next season. Holl is a cheaper and potentially better alternative to our other in-house options at the moment, and I'm hard pressed to find an affordable RD on the market that I'd be interested in (Frason maaaaybe). Liljegren is a season away, and he'll be <1M for three years (i.e. halfway through Tavares').

I think we have one of the best young winger groups in the league he could play with, with centre support behind (and in front of) him.

I'm not high on Holl or anything else RHD in the system... but I'd still go to $12m for Tavares. There's no RHD option out there that'd move the needle as much as JT, so that's where I'd look to make a substantial investment. If any of Tulloch's ideas for good RHD upgrades -- Pysyk, Demers, Petry, Gudas -- come to pass, great, and Tavares doesn't get in the way of that. If nothing like that happens, Tavares plus the existing guys in the system makes the team way better than anything else out there that I can see.
Regarding Demers: He played 21:08 per game and was just a -4, seems pretty remarkable on the Coyotes? Why would he be traded?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on May 28, 2018, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 28, 2018, 04:37:45 PM
If it was guaranteed you could have Tavares at 7 x 11M this summer OR wait a summer and have Doughty at 7 x 11M which would you choose? I would go with our area of weakness our defense and choose Doughty.

Me too... But I suspect if he makes it to free agency and the Leafs sit out the Tavares bidding to wait on Doughty, we'll see JT to San Jose or Vegas announced at 12:01pm and Doughty's 8-year extension announced at 12:05.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on May 28, 2018, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 28, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
Would be a risk for Tavares to take.  Say he signs said 1 year deal and then suffers a career ending injury in November.  Bye bye 8 year deal in Jan.  Long shot of happening but still, I'd think the player and agent would want the guarantee of a 7 year deal from another team (and 8 from the Islanders if he stays)

This here is why any talk of a 1 year deal with the promise of a longer term deal shall remain the territory of fantasy talk rather than reality.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on May 28, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: pmrules on May 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on May 28, 2018, 12:13:32 PM
1yr @ 14 with an implied agreement to re-sign for 8x10

I like this.

If you sign a UFA on July 1, can you re-sign that player to a multi year deal on July 2?

1 Year @ $14M on July 1 for 2018-2019
8 years @ $10M on July 2 which takes effect 2019-2020+.

It's in essence a 9 year deal.

That's something I could live with for Tavares.

I like that idea a lot. Of course, as busta says above, it's hard to imagine Tavares (or his agent) betting on himself like this... but it'd be a nice way to get Tavares a payday like that which he'd get from NYI (~$12m/year) without destroying the Leafs' ability to re-sign Matthews, Marner, etc and have a decent defense.

I would imagine the Leafs paying premiums on a $100m insurance policy on Tavares's future earnings in the event of a catastrophic injury would look a lot like tampering and cap circumvention.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on May 29, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 28, 2018, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 28, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
Would be a risk for Tavares to take.  Say he signs said 1 year deal and then suffers a career ending injury in November.  Bye bye 8 year deal in Jan.  Long shot of happening but still, I'd think the player and agent would want the guarantee of a 7 year deal from another team (and 8 from the Islanders if he stays)

This here is why any talk of a 1 year deal with the promise of a longer term deal shall remain the territory of fantasy talk rather than reality.
I can't believe the risk he and Stamkos took playing out their contracts with so much money on the table. What if they suffered career ending injuries prior to season end? Totally wreckless?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 29, 2018, 04:54:05 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 29, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on May 28, 2018, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Zee on May 28, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
Would be a risk for Tavares to take.  Say he signs said 1 year deal and then suffers a career ending injury in November.  Bye bye 8 year deal in Jan.  Long shot of happening but still, I'd think the player and agent would want the guarantee of a 7 year deal from another team (and 8 from the Islanders if he stays)

This here is why any talk of a 1 year deal with the promise of a longer term deal shall remain the territory of fantasy talk rather than reality.
I can't believe the risk he and Stamkos took playing out their contracts with so much money on the table. What if they suffered career ending injuries prior to season end? Totally wreckless?
Who says JT was even offered a contract? Maybe he wasn't. And if his desire is to leave NYI, he wouldn't sign there... There are a lot of players that play their contract out. Nylander did this year and by all accounts so will Marner and Matthews this year. JVR, Bozak, the same.
On the other part if they're offered a contract. They could be giving up substantial money signing a year early. A mill over 7 years is a lot of coin to add to your bank by waiting a year.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on May 29, 2018, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 29, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
I can't believe the risk he and Stamkos took playing out their contracts with so much money on the table. What if they suffered career ending injuries prior to season end? Totally wreckless?

I can't believe the risk people take every day crossing the street. What if they're hit by a bus?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 01, 2018, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on May 29, 2018, 03:40:20 PM
I can't believe the risk he and Stamkos took playing out their contracts with so much money on the table. What if they suffered career ending injuries prior to season end? Totally wreckless?

It's almost like there's a substantial difference between choosing a short-term deal instead of long-term security and waiting to put yourself in the best situation to achieve long-term security instead of taking an early offer to stay in a situation that maybe you're not happy with.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 01, 2018, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 01, 2018, 12:46:19 PM
It's almost like there's a substantial difference between choosing a short-term deal instead of long-term security and waiting to put yourself in the best situation to achieve long-term security instead of taking an early offer to stay in a situation that maybe you're not happy with.

There's also a fairly mitigated level of risk when you're talking about a worst case scenario of having to live off the 30-40 million you've already earned instead of the 120-140 million you might earn in the future.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 01, 2018, 01:06:20 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 01, 2018, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 01, 2018, 12:46:19 PM
It's almost like there's a substantial difference between choosing a short-term deal instead of long-term security and waiting to put yourself in the best situation to achieve long-term security instead of taking an early offer to stay in a situation that maybe you're not happy with.

There's also a fairly mitigated level of risk when you're talking about a worst case scenario of having to live off the 30-40 million you've already earned instead of the 120-140 million you might earn in the future.

Still risky though, right?  I wonder if these guys carry insurance, beyond just the contract insurance, in case of career ending injuries.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 01, 2018, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 01, 2018, 01:06:20 PM
Still risky though, right?

Well, I don't really want to turn this into dictionary day but what are you tangibly risking in that scenario? Your second boat? The 3rd and 4th bedrooms in your Tuscan Villa?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 01, 2018, 01:45:43 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 01, 2018, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 01, 2018, 01:06:20 PM
Still risky though, right?

Well, I don't really want to turn this into dictionary day but what are you tangibly risking in that scenario? Your second boat? The 3rd and 4th bedrooms in your Tuscan Villa?

First World problems ARE still problems, right?  Now if you'll pardon me I have to go plunge my gold-plated toilet. Bloody servants and their infernal days off!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Dappleganger on June 01, 2018, 02:01:09 PM
These players, the higher end ones, have insurance not just for their current contract but for future earnings, no?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 01, 2018, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 01, 2018, 01:06:20 PM
Still risky though, right?  I wonder if these guys carry insurance, beyond just the contract insurance, in case of career ending injuries.

Sure, but, it's still quite different from actively choosing to put yourself in that situation for another season. Every player will eventually be in the last year of their contract, but high-end players aren't often going to voluntarily put themselves in that situation for consecutive seasons (unless they're blatantly chasing a Cup, like Hossa tried to) - especially when they'll be presented with the prospect of increased financial security without risk of injury getting in the way of the imminent payday.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 01, 2018, 02:05:30 PM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 01, 2018, 02:01:09 PM
These players, the higher end ones, have insurance not just for their current contract but for future earnings, no?

Teams have insurance on contracts. I assume individual players decide for themselves(or probably through their agents) how they want to approach their own futures.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 01, 2018, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 01, 2018, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 01, 2018, 01:06:20 PM
Still risky though, right?

Well, I don't really want to turn this into dictionary day but what are you tangibly risking in that scenario? Your second boat? The 3rd and 4th bedrooms in your Tuscan Villa?
Glad your not my accountant. An additional $90M into the Tavares fund could take care of generations of his family and go along with any charities of his choosing.

Tavares could have bought an insurance policy to protect himself though.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2012/02/08/sidney_crosby_could_reap_20m_if_injuries_force_retirement.html (https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2012/02/08/sidney_crosby_could_reap_20m_if_injuries_force_retirement.html)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 01, 2018, 02:32:17 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 01, 2018, 02:24:22 PM
Glad your not my accountant. An additional $90M into the Tavares fund could take care of generations of his family and go along with any charities of his choosing.

He coulf set up large trusts for family members and give lots of money to charity with what he's already earned. Again, the additional money is largely an abstraction in that sense. Could it be used to take care of relatives who haven't been born yet? I suppose. Is there a tangible difference between giving a million dollars to a charity and giving 10 million to a charity? 

But the idea that a 25 or 26 year old athlete is going to be primarily concerned with those abstractions over, say, ultimately deciding for himself where he wants to live and play for the prime years of his career is pretty silly.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 12, 2018, 11:09:48 AM
https://twitter.com/jeffveillette/status/1006546968255090688
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 12, 2018, 11:17:58 AM
lol if the Kings can't afford Tavares because of Phaneuf.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 14, 2018, 08:56:27 PM
https://twitter.com/51leafs/status/1007002432499539969
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 10:06:10 AM
A week from today we could be negotiating with Tavares :o
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on June 18, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 10:06:10 AM
A week from today we could be negotiating with Tavares :o
I don't see it, Lou would never have gone to the island without knowing he would keep Tavares
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 11:14:54 AM
Quote from: Highlander on June 18, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 10:06:10 AM
A week from today we could be negotiating with Tavares :o
I don't see it, Lou would never have gone to the island without knowing he would keep Tavares


I think he would have gone anywhere that offered him full control over hockey operations, and the Islanders were the only team who could do that.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 18, 2018, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: Highlander on June 18, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 10:06:10 AM
A week from today we could be negotiating with Tavares :o
I don't see it, Lou would never have gone to the island without knowing he would keep Tavares

I mean there's no way for Lou to know for sure if Tavares would sign or not.  If he was so certain of Tavares staying I would think the deal would have been done shortly after Lou took over.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 18, 2018, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 18, 2018, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: Highlander on June 18, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 10:06:10 AM
A week from today we could be negotiating with Tavares :o
I don't see it, Lou would never have gone to the island without knowing he would keep Tavares

I mean there's no way for Lou to know for sure if Tavares would sign or not.  If he was so certain of Tavares staying I would think the deal would have been done shortly after Lou took over.

Yeah, there's a lot that could be going on here, but I mentioned earlier that it may be that the Tavares camp has already signaled that they're moving on, and Lou is there to oversee a tear-down of sorts...we really don't know.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: caveman on June 18, 2018, 04:44:08 PM
i doubt that Tavares would let it go this late without at least listening to pitches from other teams...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1008817278186500096

This is dumb but more teams probably do it than we realize.

Anyway if Matt Martin is involved in this in any way it'll be his greatest contribution to the team.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 18, 2018, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1008817278186500096

This is dumb but more teams probably do it than we realize.

Anyway if Matt Martin is involved in this in any way it'll be his greatest contribution to the team.
They'll just show him those Intact insurance commercials with Marner and Martin "how can you not want to be part of this?"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 18, 2018, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1008817278186500096

This is dumb but more teams probably do it than we realize.

Anyway if Matt Martin is involved in this in any way it'll be his greatest contribution to the team.

I didn't want to mention it, but now that Bob has broken this, I can tell you that I have been asked to be in the video. 

I think it would only be right for me to solicit your opinions on what I should say...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 18, 2018, 06:01:34 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 18, 2018, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1008817278186500096

This is dumb but more teams probably do it than we realize.

Anyway if Matt Martin is involved in this in any way it'll be his greatest contribution to the team.

I didn't want to mention it, but now that Bob has broken this, I can tell you that I have been asked to be in the video. 

I think it would only be right for me to solicit your opinions on what I should say...
Just ask him to read this thread
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 18, 2018, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 18, 2018, 05:33:24 PM
I didn't want to mention it, but now that Bob has broken this, I can tell you that I have been asked to be in the video. 

I think it would only be right for me to solicit your opinions on what I should say...

"Hey John, do you want everyone you've ever known since Grade School bugging you for tickets? People scrutinizing everything about your life and how it relates to your on-ice performance?"

"How about dealing with an irrational, hypercritical media that will be quick to blame you for any of the team's shortcomings while demanding you give them the time they want? Or a rabid fanbase who will talk about loyalty but are so desperate for success they'll turn on you the moment it seems like you're not everything they ever wanted?"

"Lots of money though, right? Nah, despite the massive amounts of revenues you'd be generating for us we're not allowed to offer you any more than the Florida Panthers or Carolina Hurricanes. Wouldn't be fair to them."

"The Toronto Maple Leafs: Because the Uniforms are nice, I guess."
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2018, 08:21:53 AM
https://twitter.com/TSN1050Radio/status/1009047559678169089

It's actually sorta interesting that this information is getting leaked out. Where'd it come from? Surely the Leafs aren't using the media to signal to Tavares that they're prepared to pull out all the stops in trying to court him just days after it was reported that he was still in negotiations with the Islanders.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on June 19, 2018, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1008817278186500096

This is dumb but more teams probably do it than we realize.

Anyway if Matt Martin is involved in this in any way it'll be his greatest contribution to the team.

I've got two words for you:  Josh Leivo.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 19, 2018, 08:56:29 AM
Quote from: Heroic Shrimp on June 19, 2018, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 18, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1008817278186500096

This is dumb but more teams probably do it than we realize.

Anyway if Matt Martin is involved in this in any way it'll be his greatest contribution to the team.

I've got two words for you:  Josh Leivo.

"Hi John,  Josh Leivo here.  I can't express how thrilled I would be to watch you in a Leafs uniform, leading this team to greater heights.  I'll be in the press box cheering on all your goals and assists as we bring this dream to a reality!"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 19, 2018, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 18, 2018, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 18, 2018, 05:33:24 PM
I didn't want to mention it, but now that Bob has broken this, I can tell you that I have been asked to be in the video. 

I think it would only be right for me to solicit your opinions on what I should say...

"Hey John, do you want everyone you've ever known since Grade School bugging you for tickets? People scrutinizing everything about your life and how it relates to your on-ice performance?"

"How about dealing with an irrational, hypercritical media that will be quick to blame you for any of the team's shortcomings while demanding you give them the time they want? Or a rabid fanbase who will talk about loyalty but are so desperate for success they'll turn on you the moment it seems like you're not everything they ever wanted?"

"Lots of money though, right? Nah, despite the massive amounts of revenues you'd be generating for us we're not allowed to offer you any more than the Florida Panthers or Carolina Hurricanes. Wouldn't be fair to them."

"The Toronto Maple Leafs: Because the Uniforms are nice, I guess."

"Hey John, listen, if you're a guy like me, don't you hate going out for dinner, or drinks, and being left alone to be lonely and bored? 

Well, if you're lucky enough to sign here, that will never ever happen again for the rest of your life.

It'll be great!  People will walk right up to you, and will either shower you with adulation, or they will yell obscenities to your face, solely dependent on your most recent on-ice shift. But like any pro athlete, I'm sure you enjoy that kind of accountability.

Your family will love these kinds of daily interactions."
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 19, 2018, 09:46:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TorontoMarlies/status/555819174476652544

I didn't know Tavares played with a young Sean William Scott.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 19, 2018, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 18, 2018, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 18, 2018, 05:33:24 PM
I didn't want to mention it, but now that Bob has broken this, I can tell you that I have been asked to be in the video. 

I think it would only be right for me to solicit your opinions on what I should say...

"Hey John, do you want everyone you've ever known since Grade School bugging you for tickets? People scrutinizing everything about your life and how it relates to your on-ice performance?"

"How about dealing with an irrational, hypercritical media that will be quick to blame you for any of the team's shortcomings while demanding you give them the time they want? Or a rabid fanbase who will talk about loyalty but are so desperate for success they'll turn on you the moment it seems like you're not everything they ever wanted?"

"Lots of money though, right? Nah, despite the massive amounts of revenues you'd be generating for us we're not allowed to offer you any more than the Florida Panthers or Carolina Hurricanes. Wouldn't be fair to them."

"The Toronto Maple Leafs: Because the Uniforms are nice, I guess."

"Hey John, listen, if you're a guy like me, don't you hate going out for dinner, or drinks, and being left alone to be lonely and bored? 

Well, if you're lucky enough to sign here, that will never ever happen again for the rest of your life.

It'll be great!  People will walk right up to you, and will either shower you with adulation, or they will yell obscenities to your face, solely dependent on your most recent on-ice shift. But like any pro athlete, I'm sure you enjoy that kind of accountability.

Your family will love these kinds of daily interactions."
I can be a grumpy a#%@ole but you guys take the cake.

How about focusing on the bronze statue of yourself you'll get, the 5,000,000 who will attend the parade, and your place in folklore when bringing a cup to Toronto?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 19, 2018, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
How about focusing on the bronze statue of yourself you'll get, the 5,000,000 who will attend the parade, and your place in folklore when bringing a cup to Toronto?

Guys who win the cup in other markets seem pretty happy about it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 19, 2018, 10:26:30 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 19, 2018, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
How about focusing on the bronze statue of yourself you'll get, the 5,000,000 who will attend the parade, and your place in folklore when bringing a cup to Toronto?

Guys who win the cup in other markets seem pretty happy about it.

I don't know.  Ovechkin seems down right depressed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 19, 2018, 10:32:34 AM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2018, 09:46:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TorontoMarlies/status/555819174476652544

I didn't know Tavares played with a young Sean William Scott.

What message are they sending here?  "John, there's always a place for you on the Marlies"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Peter D. on June 19, 2018, 11:34:32 AM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2018, 09:46:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TorontoMarlies/status/555819174476652544

I didn't know Tavares played with a young Sean William Scott.

JFJ ruins this photo for me.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2018, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: herman on June 19, 2018, 09:46:55 AM
https://twitter.com/TorontoMarlies/status/555819174476652544

The fact that the Leafs were supposedly considering signing Tavares to an AHL-only deal to play for the Marlies in his draft year still makes me chuckle.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:37:47 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 19, 2018, 10:26:30 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 19, 2018, 10:23:10 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 10:16:49 AM
How about focusing on the bronze statue of yourself you'll get, the 5,000,000 who will attend the parade, and your place in folklore when bringing a cup to Toronto?

Guys who win the cup in other markets seem pretty happy about it.

I don't know.  Ovechkin seems down right depressed.
The Washington fan obsession with members of this Stanley Cup winning team will fail in comparison to Toronto's if they ever win.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 19, 2018, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:37:47 AM
The Washington fan obsession with members of this Stanley Cup winning team will fail in comparison to Toronto's if they ever win.

Good, yeah, remember to put "If you win, fans will be irrationally obsessed with you" in your promo video.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 19, 2018, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:37:47 AM
The Washington fan obsession with members of this Stanley Cup winning team will fail in comparison to Toronto's if they ever win.

Good, yeah, remember to put "If you win, fans will be irrationally obsessed with you" in your promo video.
Someone as dedicated to this team as you are has to have an appreciation that winning here would mean more then winning anywhere else. I would add it to the video. What could be more appealing to a Toronto kid then bringing the cup home to a starving fan base? It's the stuff I fantasized about as a kid.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 19, 2018, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 19, 2018, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:37:47 AM
The Washington fan obsession with members of this Stanley Cup winning team will fail in comparison to Toronto's if they ever win.

Good, yeah, remember to put "If you win, fans will be irrationally obsessed with you" in your promo video.
Someone as dedicated to this team as you are has to have an appreciation that winning here would mean more then winning anywhere else. I would add it to the video. What could be more appealing to a Toronto kid then bringing the cup home to a starving fan base? It's the stuff I fantasized about as a kid.

Sure, but when that becomes a reality, it can sometimes get scary.  I have heard a couple of celebrity detail how their celebrity became a jail for them.  When you are a kid you don't think of the ramifications of living in that environment day in and day out and never being able to get away from it.   These are all things that have to be considered.   I don't know John Tavares personally, but if he is one that doesn't like the spotlight, and only wants to play hockey because he enjoys the sport and he is good at it, then Toronto may not be for him. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 19, 2018, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:52:08 AM
Someone as dedicated to this team as you are has to have an appreciation that winning here would mean more then winning anywhere else. I would add it to the video. What could be more appealing to a Toronto kid then bringing the cup home to a starving fan base? It's the stuff I fantasized about as a kid.

That may be true for some, but it won't be true for everyone. We can't say with any certainty that Tavares would get more out of winning as a Leaf than he would with any other team. Or if winning with a new team would mean more to him than winning with guys he's spent years playing with.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 19, 2018, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 19, 2018, 11:52:08 AMSomeone as dedicated to this team as you are has to have an appreciation that winning here would mean more then winning anywhere else. I would add it to the video. What could be more appealing to a Toronto kid then bringing the cup home to a starving fan base? It's the stuff I fantasized about as a kid.

I think that's a pretty good illustration of how fans like us might still see the game as we did as kids vs. the way players, who are adult professionals will see things.

I don't personally know that winning here would mean "more" than winning anywhere else but mainly I don't think that most players look at winning the cup as something they're doing for the community they play in. I think they tend to look at it as a source of personal/professional accomplishment and, as such, are happy regardless of where they win it.

No matter where a player wins the cup he's going to make fans happy. I don't know how realistic it is to expect someone like Tavares to care more about the fact that Toronto might have more fans, or that some fans might be happier comparatively, vs. the actual day to day impact playing here would have on his life.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 21, 2018, 01:26:12 PM
Uncle Lou may pull off the resign if the Trotz rumors are true.

If I was Tavares' agent, I would remind him to take his whole tenure into consideration not just what has happened the last few months.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 21, 2018, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 21, 2018, 01:26:12 PM
Uncle Lou may pull off the resign if the Trotz rumors are true.

If I was Tavares' agent, I would remind him to take his whole tenure into consideration not just what has happened the last few months.

You can say the same about any coach.  Babcock only has 1 cup as well, so is he any better than Trotz who has just won the most recent cup?

I'm thinking Trotz and Tavares might be a package deal.  Lou will convince Tavares that he's got the right man to turn the team around.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 21, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
Dreger with a big scoop:

https://twitter.com/NicholsOnHockey/status/1009854152011214848
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 21, 2018, 01:54:11 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 21, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
Dreger with a big scoop:

https://twitter.com/NicholsOnHockey/status/1009854152011214848

;D  Way to scoop everyone Dreger.  "Right now, there's no decision"

I can't confirm or deny there's no decision yet.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: nutman on June 21, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
I knew when Lou joined the NYI the chances of JT coming went down, but now that Trotts has been hired, the chances are now gone IMO.  I guess we look elsewhere for our much needed center help.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 21, 2018, 09:33:32 PM
Quote from: nutman on June 21, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
I knew when Lou joined the NYI the chances of JT coming went down, but now that Trotts has been hired, the chances are now gone IMO.  I guess we look elsewhere for our much needed center help.
I dont think it changes anything pertaining to the Leafs. If he had the dream of playing for us or anyone else, that wont change his mind. I think he's going to free agency just to see whats out there. If the Leafs offer up the right amount of cash and term to go witg his desite, if there is one, he'll be a Leaf. We'll see soon eniugh.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 22, 2018, 01:00:44 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 21, 2018, 09:33:32 PM
Quote from: nutman on June 21, 2018, 05:46:48 PM
I knew when Lou joined the NYI the chances of JT coming went down, but now that Trotts has been hired, the chances are now gone IMO.  I guess we look elsewhere for our much needed center help.
I dont think it changes anything pertaining to the Leafs. If he had the dream of playing for us or anyone else, that wont change his mind. I think he's going to free agency just to see whats out there. If the Leafs offer up the right amount of cash and term to go witg his desite, if there is one, he'll be a Leaf. We'll see soon eniugh.

I don't think that's exactly right. This is looking more and more likely to go the way of Stamkos. JT will hear offers, consider the opportunities they present, and then look back at what he's leaving... which, now, isn't just the team that drafted and to which he feels some sense of obligation, loyalty, or whatever. It's a living legend GM, a recent Cup-winning coach, and, by the end of the weekend, maybe stability in net (one of NYI's firsts for Grubauer?).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2018, 01:04:05 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 22, 2018, 01:00:44 PM
I don't think that's exactly right. This is looking more and more likely to go the way of Stamkos. JT will hear offers, consider the opportunities they present, and then look back at what he's leaving... which, now, isn't just the team that drafted and to which he feels some sense of obligation, loyalty, or whatever. It's a living legend GM, a recent Cup-winning coach, and, by the end of the weekend, maybe stability in net (one of NYI's firsts for Grubauer?).

It's a side point but unless the Caps are super confident in Samsonov coming over and playing a big role right away I wouldn't be too eager to deal Grubauer after the year Holtby just had.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 01:08:24 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2018, 01:04:05 PM
It's a side point but unless the Caps are super confident in Samsonov coming over and playing a big role right away I wouldn't be too eager to deal Grubauer after the year Holtby just had.

The chatter seems to indicate they're pretty set on moving him. He's a year away from becoming a UFA, and will need a more expensive contract than they can afford to give someone they expect to be their backup.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 22, 2018, 01:11:04 PM
The Dubas pitch to Tavares complete with the song "Leafs are the best" playing on the boom box:

(https://i.imgur.com/rVb49k6.jpg)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 01:08:24 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2018, 01:04:05 PM
It's a side point but unless the Caps are super confident in Samsonov coming over and playing a big role right away I wouldn't be too eager to deal Grubauer after the year Holtby just had.

The chatter seems to indicate they're pretty set on moving him. He's a year away from becoming a UFA, and will need a more expensive contract than they can afford to give someone they expect to be their backup.

Still not what I'd do. Keep him until the deadline and move him if/when you're confident Holtby has a bounce back year.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 01:18:58 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
Still not what I'd do. Keep him until the deadline and move him if/when you're confident Holtby has a bounce back year.

Sure, but, really, Holtby's play doesn't really factor into to the decision much. With their cap situation, holding on to Grubauer means creating a hole in another area instead. He's made it known he wants to be a #1 somewhere. He's already proven he deserves that chance, and he's not going to sign a team-friendly deal to be an insurance policy for one season. With only ~$16M in cap space to sign their other RFAs and fill holes from UFAs they don't bring back, they really can't afford to sign him to the type of contract he'll be looking for.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 22, 2018, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2018, 01:04:05 PM
It's a side point but unless the Caps are super confident in Samsonov coming over and playing a big role right away I wouldn't be too eager to deal Grubauer after the year Holtby just had.

Further to what busta's said, I'd imagine Holtby's cup run probably eased their concerns in that regard.

But I wonder if they'd be interested in a veteran stop-gap backup for next season. Say, someone with a catchy, backup-related nickname?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 22, 2018, 01:29:05 PM
Sharks just freed up $2.8333mil by buying out Paul Martin's contract.

Wonder what that cap space is for...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2018, 01:30:40 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 01:18:58 PM
Sure, but, really, Holtby's play doesn't really factor into to the decision much. With their cap situation, holding on to Grubauer means creating a hole in another area instead. He's made it known he wants to be a #1 somewhere. He's already proven he deserves that chance, and he's not going to sign a team-friendly deal to be an insurance policy for one season. With only ~$16M in cap space to sign their other RFAs and fill holes from UFAs they don't bring back, they really can't afford to sign him to the type of contract he'll be looking for.

I think they've got enough leverage to sign him to a one year deal if they want. Nobody is going to throw a huge offer sheet at him and, if they do, the Caps would probably be happy to let them.

If he wants to be a #1 somewhere and nobody offersheets him, his best bet is to re-sign for effectively whatever Washington wants. Holding out won't do him any favours.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2018, 01:30:40 PM
I think they've got enough leverage to sign him to a one year deal if they want. Nobody is going to throw a huge offer sheet at him and, if they do, the Caps would probably be happy to let them.

If he wants to be a #1 somewhere and nobody offersheets him, his best bet is to re-sign for effectively whatever Washington wants. Holding out won't do him any favours.

Sure, but how often do players and teams stick to the strictly logical? It's also in the Caps' long-term interests to pick up value for him now instead of at the deadline. They could conceivably pry a 1st round pick from someone like Ottawa or Detroit (each have acquired a pick late in the round and need an upgrade in net), whereas they're unlikely to get near that value at the deadline. From an asset management perspective, they should trade him now and sign a reasonable backup as a free agent.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2018, 01:59:06 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 01:54:32 PM
Sure, but how often do players and teams stick to the strictly logical? It's also in the Caps' long-term interests to pick up value for him now instead of at the deadline. They could conceivably pry a 1st round pick from someone like Ottawa or Detroit (each have acquired a pick late in the round and need an upgrade in net), whereas they're unlikely to get near that value at the deadline. From an asset management perspective, they should trade him now and sign a reasonable backup as a free agent.

I disagree about what they might get for him at the deadline. It's a world where even 4th line C's get 2nd round picks. If he looks good next year and there's a team with goaltending concerns I think Washington could end up with something even better(a pick that might be mid-1st or a more NHL ready prospect).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 22, 2018, 02:03:35 PM
If he resigns I will puke...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 22, 2018, 01:59:06 PM
I disagree about what they might get for him at the deadline. It's a world where even 4th line C's get 2nd round picks. If he looks good next year and there's a team with goaltending concerns I think Washington could end up with something even better(a pick that might be mid-1st or a more NHL ready prospect).

Based on what goalies have gone for at recent deadlines compared to what they're gone for around the draft in that same period (UFA rights not included), I have to disagree.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 22, 2018, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 22, 2018, 02:03:35 PM
If he resigns I will puke...

Mr. Creosote: "Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on June 22, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 22, 2018, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 22, 2018, 02:03:35 PM
If he resigns I will puke...

Mr. Creosote: "Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up"

;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 22, 2018, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 22, 2018, 01:29:05 PM
Sharks just freed up $2.8333mil by buying out Paul Martin's contract.

Wonder what that cap space is for...

Since Thornton is really on his last leg (literally), I bet they go after Tavares full-on.

Like $11m-$12m full on.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on June 22, 2018, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: Bender on June 22, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 22, 2018, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 22, 2018, 02:03:35 PM
If he resigns I will puke...

Mr. Creosote: "Better get a bucket, I'm gonna throw up"

;D

"But it's just waafer thin"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 23, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
From Arthur Staple of The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/404587/2018/06/23/staple-isles-build-for-longterm-future-on-first-night-of-the-draft-while-tavares-goaltender-questions-loom-closer/):

QuoteIt's believed at least three teams are assured of meetings with Tavares and his camp: The Leafs, Sharks, and Stars. The Lightning and Kings — the latter a long-desired destination of Tavares if he were to leave the Isles — could also get into the mix.

This is assuming he doesn't re-sign with the Islanders in the next couple days.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 23, 2018, 09:49:39 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 23, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
From Arthur Staple of The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/404587/2018/06/23/staple-isles-build-for-longterm-future-on-first-night-of-the-draft-while-tavares-goaltender-questions-loom-closer/):

QuoteIt's believed at least three teams are assured of meetings with Tavares and his camp: The Leafs, Sharks, and Stars. The Lightning and Kings — the latter a long-desired destination of Tavares if he were to leave the Isles — could also get into the mix.

This is assuming he doesn't re-sign with the Islanders in the next couple days.

So we've narrowed it down to everyone who was ever rumoured to be in the running.

Minus the Habs.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 23, 2018, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 23, 2018, 09:49:39 AM
So we've narrowed it down to everyone who was ever rumoured to be in the running.

Minus the Habs.

I don't think we've heard Dallas or Tampa before. Not sure how the Lightning would make that work.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 23, 2018, 09:58:15 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 23, 2018, 09:54:44 AM
I don't think we've heard Dallas or Tampa before. Not sure how the Lightning would make that work.

I was really just joking but Tampa did get mentioned here:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/21588800/nhl-eight-teams-new-york-islanders-center-john-tavares-sign-2018-free-agent-market (http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/21588800/nhl-eight-teams-new-york-islanders-center-john-tavares-sign-2018-free-agent-market)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 23, 2018, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 23, 2018, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 23, 2018, 09:49:39 AM
So we've narrowed it down to everyone who was ever rumoured to be in the running.

Minus the Habs.

I don't think we've heard Dallas or Tampa before. Not sure how the Lightning would make that work.

Also minus St. Louis (who is also out of the running for Kovalchuk, ha) and I think Detroit was also sitting, waiting, wishing.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 23, 2018, 12:48:55 PM

I'm not sure how much this means but:

https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/1010562607277924352
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 23, 2018, 01:12:41 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 23, 2018, 12:48:55 PM

I'm not sure how much this means but:

https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/1010562607277924352

It means no signing with the Islanders before the week leading to free agency. That's about it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 23, 2018, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 23, 2018, 01:12:41 PM
It means no signing with the Islanders before the week leading to free agency. That's about it.

I'm not sure it would even mean that much. He could meet with all five teams and still sign before he officially hits the market if he wanted.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 23, 2018, 01:20:17 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 23, 2018, 12:48:55 PM
I'm not sure how much this means but:

Stamkos did the same thing, so, basically, it means he wants to hear what's out there before making a decision.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 23, 2018, 01:22:29 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 23, 2018, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 23, 2018, 01:12:41 PM
It means no signing with the Islanders before the week leading to free agency. That's about it.

I'm not sure it would even mean that much. He could meet with all five teams and still sign before he officially hits the market if he wanted.

I meant the week before July 1st. Could of signed today. Not anymore!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 23, 2018, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 23, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
From Arthur Staple of The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/404587/2018/06/23/staple-isles-build-for-longterm-future-on-first-night-of-the-draft-while-tavares-goaltender-questions-loom-closer/):

QuoteIt's believed at least three teams are assured of meetings with Tavares and his camp: The Leafs, Sharks, and Stars. The Lightning and Kings — the latter a long-desired destination of Tavares if he were to leave the Isles — could also get into the mix.

This is assuming he doesn't re-sign with the Islanders in the next couple days.

Can't see any way that this works now that Kovalchuk is signed to go along with LAK's collection of horrible contracts.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 23, 2018, 03:45:35 PM
Queue up the video montage Leafs!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 24, 2018, 08:52:09 PM
https://twitter.com/thefourthperiod/status/1010613638959427584
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: L K on June 24, 2018, 10:50:12 PM
So minimum the Leafs are probably going to have to pay him 7*11/77 or possible 7*12/84 to come close number-wise.  I'm not sure that's a great idea given that Matthews is coming off an injury limited 74 goals/132 points in 144 games.  Tavares scored 53 goals and 121 points in his first two seasons.  If he takes the next step in his game he's going to pull in 15 million.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 03:35:20 AM
Quote from: L K on June 24, 2018, 10:50:12 PM
So minimum the Leafs are probably going to have to pay him 7*11/77 or possible 7*12/84 to come close number-wise.  I'm not sure that's a great idea given that Matthews is coming off an injury limited 74 goals/132 points in 144 games.  Tavares scored 53 goals and 121 points in his first two seasons.  If he takes the next step in his game he's going to pull in 15 million.
Matthews will not be paid more then McDavid. Don't care how good of a season he has.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Michael on June 25, 2018, 07:10:45 AM

https://twitter.com/StapeAthletic/status/1011061287344852993

https://twitter.com/StapeAthletic/status/1011080681403879424
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
Dreger throwing out the rumor that the Leafs will offer Tavares the captaincy as part of the pitch.  I don't buy it.  This is Dreger trying to get clicks. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
This is Dreger trying to get clicks.

That's Dreger's job.

Also, the kerning on my browser might be a bit off, but I totally read that alliteratively.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 09:18:26 AM
Quote from: herman on June 25, 2018, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
This is Dreger trying to get clicks.

That's Dreger's job.

Also, the kerning on my browser might be a bit off, but I totally read that alliteratively.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 23, 2018, 02:25:51 PM
Can't see any way that this works now that Kovalchuk is signed to go along with LAK's collection of horrible contracts.

I said this to busta in the other thread but I don't see it as being all that difficult. Bribe someone to take Phaneuf, trade Toffoli and you're effectively there.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 09:58:52 AM
If I'm Tavares though there's no way I could sign with LA unless Doughty signs his extension at the same time. That team without him is... yikes. Especially with that ageing forward core.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
Dreger throwing out the rumor that the Leafs will offer Tavares the captaincy as part of the pitch.  I don't buy it.  This is Dreger trying to get clicks. 

Why? I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's part of the discussion.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
Dreger throwing out the rumor that the Leafs will offer Tavares the captaincy as part of the pitch.  I don't buy it.  This is Dreger trying to get clicks. 

Why? I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's part of the discussion.

I actually think it makes a certain amount of sense insomuch as it would shift a lot of pressure off the shoulders of MNM.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:15:33 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
I actually think it makes a certain amount of sense insomuch as it would shift a lot of pressure off the shoulders of MNM.

If it was my decision I would absolutely give him the C right away, largely because of that sort of reasoning. I think the only issue would be does Tavares want all that pressure on top of the pressure the huge contract in this market would already bring?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 08:40:05 AM
Dreger throwing out the rumor that the Leafs will offer Tavares the captaincy as part of the pitch.  I don't buy it.  This is Dreger trying to get clicks. 

Why? I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's part of the discussion.

I actually think it makes a certain amount of sense insomuch as it would shift a lot of pressure off the shoulders of MNM.

The captaincy ought to be a side issue but it brings up a fundamental argument against going after Tavares: you can only have one 1C and Matthews no doubt views himself as that guy.  Having two alpha males playing the same role on the team is an invitation to controversy ... which the Toronto media will only be too glad to stoke.

For me, having to pay $84M for the services of Tavares is money that can and should be spent elsewhere.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
The captaincy ought to be a side issue but it brings up a fundamental argument against going after Tavares: you can only have one 1C and Matthews no doubt views himself as that guy.  Having two alpha males playing the same role on the team is an invitation to controversy

(https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/photos/290390062/1024x576/cut.jpg)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:20:03 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:15:33 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
I actually think it makes a certain amount of sense insomuch as it would shift a lot of pressure off the shoulders of MNM.

If it was my decision I would absolutely give him the C right away, largely because of that sort of reasoning. I think the only issue would be does Tavares want all that pressure on top of the pressure the huge contract in this market would already bring?

Absolutely. I think you at least make it part of the conversation. See if that's something he wants but frame it as a sign of just how much they believe in him and what he brings to the table.

I know we've all seen a Matthews' captaincy as an inevitability but he may just not be that kind of guy just yet. If the Leafs land a guy who would make for a good Captain and could handle that pressure, even if he's not a superstar, I think that would be a positive step forward for the team.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:20:03 AM
Absolutely. I think you at least make it part of the conversation. See if that's something he wants but frame it as a sign of just how much they believe in him and what he brings to the table.

Right. Like if he wants it and the C is what seals the deal here then you absolutely give it to him.

Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:20:03 AM
I know we've all seen a Matthews' captaincy as an inevitability but he may just not be that kind of guy just yet. If the Leafs land a guy who would make for a good Captain and could handle that pressure, even if he's not a superstar, I think that would be a positive step forward for the team.

This isn't a knock on Matthews, but my gut feeling is that Rielly would get the C over him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:25:38 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
The captaincy ought to be a side issue but it brings up a fundamental argument against going after Tavares: you can only have one 1C and Matthews no doubt views himself as that guy.  Having two alpha males playing the same role on the team is an invitation to controversy ... which the Toronto media will only be too glad to stoke.

All of the teams Tavares is rumoured to potentially be speaking to have something in common: Pavelski, Matthews, Seguin, Kopitar, Bergeron, Johansen.

Maybe after 10 years on a literal and figurative island Tavares doesn't want to be the undisputed alpha-no help below him #1 C.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:26:19 AM
So I was just thinking about how long we've been captain-less for and my very first thought was "wow it's been like 10 years since Sundin retired".

Uh... sorry Dion.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:19:20 AM
(https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/photos/290390062/1024x576/cut.jpg)

Remember all those cups Gretzky and Messier didn't win? Or Francis and Lemieux? Or Yzerman and Fedorov? Or Sakic and Forsberg? Or...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:30:33 AM
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1011254817375899649

If he doesn't sign here I'd be pretty happy to see him in Dallas. Especially if they can manage to re-sign Seguin too.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 25, 2018, 10:31:58 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 23, 2018, 02:25:51 PM
Can't see any way that this works now that Kovalchuk is signed to go along with LAK's collection of horrible contracts.

I said this to busta in the other thread but I don't see it as being all that difficult. Bribe someone to take Phaneuf, trade Toffoli and you're effectively there.

Sounds like it may be a moot point, as there have been rumblings that the Kings don't intend to pursue him.

https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/1010724450499776512

"Confirmation tonight that the Kings will not pursue John Tavares, after signing Ilya Kovalchuk. They did take a long hard look at Max Pacioretty but couldn't get a deal done"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:30:33 AM
If he doesn't sign here I'd be pretty happy to see him in Dallas. Especially if they can manage to re-sign Seguin too.

Me too. But only because I'm a firm believer in Gary Bettman's NHL where living in a noxiously right-wing state with no income tax is a legitimate financial incentive for a player but making more money via playing in a city with lots of fans who pay insanely high ticket prices is unfair and anti-competitive.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:35:28 AM
https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/1011244639389659137

"This is hardly a shock to management" haha bullcrap it is. The Habs have almost $20mil in cap space and nobody noteworthy to re-sign and a gaping hole at 1C (and I mean at 2C and 3C...). I guarantee you they were planning on going all-in on Tavares.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:35:28 AM
https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/1011244639389659137

"This is hardly a shock to management" haha bullcrap it is. The Habs have almost $20mil in cap space and nobody noteworthy to re-sign and a gaping hole at 1C (and I mean at 2C and 3C...). I guarantee you they were planning on going all-in on Tavares.

Plan B for their center is Bozak.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:35:28 AM
https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/1011244639389659137

"This is hardly a shock to management" haha bullcrap it is. The Habs have almost $20mil in cap space and nobody noteworthy to re-sign and a gaping hole at 1C (and I mean at 2C and 3C...). I guarantee you they were planning on going all-in on Tavares.

My guess is that if it isn't a shock, it's because whatever their attempts at footsy might have been prior to officially being allowed to talk to him were generally rebuffed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 10:44:04 AM
I also think that Habs report speaks to what ZZBM was talking about with regards to the money for Tavares. I think a fair argument can be made that it should be spent elsewhere. I'm less convinced that the money can be spent elsewhere. Genuine stars coming onto the free agent market is pretty rare. I know we might be dreaming of Karlsson and Doughty, and they may be better fits, but there's no guarantee that they hit free agency and even if they do the Leafs may not be on their list.

Personally, I think you need to take these chances. To add a major piece for just money is a unique enough opportunity that it can't really be ignored. Even if, or maybe especially if, the end result is that it maybe frees the team up to consider trading pieces they otherwise wouldn't.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 25, 2018, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:44:04 AM
I also think that Habs report speaks to what ZZBM was talking about with regards to the money for Tavares. I think a fair argument can be made that it should be spent elsewhere. I'm less concerned that the money can be spent elsewhere. Genuine stars coming onto the free agent market is pretty rare. I know we might be dreaming of Karlsson and Doughty, and they may be better fits, but there's no guarantee that they hit free agency and even if they do the Leafs may not be on their list.

Personally, I think you need to take these chances. To add a major piece for just money is a unique enough opportunity that it can't really be ignored. Even if, or maybe especially if, the end result is that it maybe frees the team up to consider trading pieces they otherwise wouldn't.

Agreed.  Prior to adding someone like Tavares, we would all still struggle with trading Marner or Nylander to address the deficiencies on the back end.  We'd all be wondering if we are impacting our offense too much.  With Tavares (or another significant offensive star) added for just money, it makes it easier to accept moving out one of those pieces. 

(Note, in both cases the return also has to be good enough.  Just because we add Tavares, doesn't mean I want one of our young stars being moved for Adam Larsson)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 10:18:13 AM
The captaincy ought to be a side issue but it brings up a fundamental argument against going after Tavares: you can only have one 1C and Matthews no doubt views himself as that guy.  Having two alpha males playing the same role on the team is an invitation to controversy

(https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/photos/290390062/1024x576/cut.jpg)

Uh, the Pens did not trade for either one, did they?  That's the dymanic that makes for the tension I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on June 25, 2018, 11:25:57 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 10:44:04 AM
I also think that Habs report speaks to what ZZBM was talking about with regards to the money for Tavares. I think a fair argument can be made that it should be spent elsewhere. I'm less concerned that the money can be spent elsewhere. Genuine stars coming onto the free agent market is pretty rare. I know we might be dreaming of Karlsson and Doughty, and they may be better fits, but there's no guarantee that they hit free agency and even if they do the Leafs may not be on their list.

Personally, I think you need to take these chances. To add a major piece for just money is a unique enough opportunity that it can't really be ignored. Even if, or maybe especially if, the end result is that it maybe frees the team up to consider trading pieces they otherwise wouldn't.

Agreed.  Prior to adding someone like Tavares, we would all still struggle with trading Marner or Nylander to address the deficiencies on the back end.  We'd all be wondering if we are impacting our offense too much.  With Tavares (or another significant offensive star) added for just money, it makes it easier to accept moving out one of those pieces. 

(Note, in both cases the return also has to be good enough.  Just because we add Tavares, doesn't mean I want one of our young stars being moved for Adam Larsson)

Well, if we signed Tavares then you could argue that the best player to move of the big 3 is Matthews.  Straight up for Karlsson, say?  We'd be a much better team, wouldn't we?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 11:42:14 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:41:15 AM
Well, if we signed Tavares then you could argue that the best player to move of the big 3 is Matthews.  Straight up for Karlsson, say?  We'd be a much better team, wouldn't we?

No?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
Uh, the Pens did not trade for either one, did they?  That's the dymanic that makes for the tension I'm talking about.

The Leafs aren't trading for Tavares either. Although I'm not really sure what difference that would make.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 25, 2018, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:41:15 AM
Well, if we signed Tavares then you could argue that the best player to move of the big 3 is Matthews.  Straight up for Karlsson, say?  We'd be a much better team, wouldn't we?

No.

But Nylander or Marner for Parayko would help.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
Uh, the Pens did not trade for either one, did they?  That's the dymanic that makes for the tension I'm talking about.

The Leafs aren't trading for Tavares either. Although I'm not really sure what difference that would make.

Matthews is sitting there as the 1C with no doubts.  The team goes out and gets (trade, UFA signing, no diff) another 1C.  In public, Matthews will say all's well and good.  In private?  Who knows, but jealousy is a powerful emotion.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 25, 2018, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:41:15 AM
Well, if we signed Tavares then you could argue that the best player to move of the big 3 is Matthews.  Straight up for Karlsson, say?  We'd be a much better team, wouldn't we?

No.

But Nylander or Marner for Parayko would help.

JT centering the first line instead of Matthews, and adding Karlsson on the back end ... wouldn't make us a better team?  Seriously?  Unless you are arguing that Tavares is a major downgrade on Matthews it certainly would.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
JT centering the first line instead of Matthews, and adding Karlsson on the back end ... wouldn't make us a better team?  Seriously?  Unless you are arguing that Tavares is a major downgrade on Matthews it certainly would.

No, it's arguing that the values of players are reflected in their actual play as opposed to their position on a depth chart. There is no significant difference in Matthews' value to the Leafs if he's getting 20 minutes of ice time a night as the #2 C instead of as the #1.

And, as pointed out, many many great teams in history have had two HOF level C's.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
JT centering the first line instead of Matthews, and adding Karlsson on the back end ... wouldn't make us a better team?  Seriously?  Unless you are arguing that Tavares is a major downgrade on Matthews it certainly would.

No, it's arguing that the values of players are reflected in their actual play as opposed to their position on a depth chart. There is no significant difference in Matthews' value to the Leafs if he's getting 20 minutes of ice time a night as the #2 C instead of as the #1.

And, as pointed out, many many great teams in history have had two HOF level C's.

That's not the point I'm reacting to in this particular post.  It's the suggestion that getting JT makes it easier to trade Marner or Nylander for the backend help we need (more than JT I would argue).  If so, why not include Matthews in the calculus?  He's got the highest value and is the only one of the 3 likely to fetch a Karlsson.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

Seriously. I have absolutely no reason to think he is this kind of person but if he would be genuinely upset by the frankly arbitrary designation of which guy is #1 and would put that over the team improving itself significantly then I'd really question keeping him around regardless.

This isn't basketball. It's not fighting over touches. You can play what are effectively two #1 lines.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 25, 2018, 12:03:49 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
JT centering the first line instead of Matthews, and adding Karlsson on the back end ... wouldn't make us a better team?  Seriously?  Unless you are arguing that Tavares is a major downgrade on Matthews it certainly would.

No, it's arguing that the values of players are reflected in their actual play as opposed to their position on a depth chart. There is no significant difference in Matthews' value to the Leafs if he's getting 20 minutes of ice time a night as the #2 C instead of as the #1.

And, as pointed out, many many great teams in history have had two HOF level C's.

That's not the point I'm reacting to in this particular post.  It's the suggestion that getting JT makes it easier to trade Marner or Nylander for the backend help we need (more than JT I would argue).  If so, why not include Matthews in the calculus?  He's got the highest value and is the only one of the 3 likely to fetch a Karlsson.

I don't have a problem with discussing it, but I'm told that having 2 top-shelf centres is a pretty big boon.  The Leafs are definitely short on C at the moment, so adding Tavares and removing Matthews doesn't solve that problem.

I think that might be why IF they were to land Tavares, that the guys talked about that could be moved would be wingers.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 12:05:17 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
That's not the point I'm reacting to in this particular post.  It's the suggestion that getting JT makes it easier to trade Marner or Nylander for the backend help we need (more than JT I would argue).  If so, why not include Matthews in the calculus?  He's got the highest value and is the only one of the 3 likely to fetch a Karlsson.

I am including him in the calculus. I'm saying that adding Tavares doesn't change the equation. Matthews is still more valuable to the team than Karlsson would be. Team's don't improve by trading their most valuable pieces as opposed to their less valuable ones. Matthews has the highest value, therefore he's the most valuable guy to the team. Adding Tavares does not create a redundancy.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 12:07:20 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 25, 2018, 12:03:49 PM
I think that might be why IF they were to land Tavares, that the guys talked about that could be moved would be wingers.

Or, in Nylander's case, a winger who probably sees the most value eventually being used down the middle. In that respect, having Tavares and Matthews would create something of a redundancy and Nylander might be more valuable to another team that would use him as a C than he would be here on the wing.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 25, 2018, 12:03:49 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:51:53 AM
JT centering the first line instead of Matthews, and adding Karlsson on the back end ... wouldn't make us a better team?  Seriously?  Unless you are arguing that Tavares is a major downgrade on Matthews it certainly would.

No, it's arguing that the values of players are reflected in their actual play as opposed to their position on a depth chart. There is no significant difference in Matthews' value to the Leafs if he's getting 20 minutes of ice time a night as the #2 C instead of as the #1.

And, as pointed out, many many great teams in history have had two HOF level C's.

That's not the point I'm reacting to in this particular post.  It's the suggestion that getting JT makes it easier to trade Marner or Nylander for the backend help we need (more than JT I would argue).  If so, why not include Matthews in the calculus?  He's got the highest value and is the only one of the 3 likely to fetch a Karlsson.

I don't have a problem with discussing it, but I'm told that having 2 top-shelf centres is a pretty big boon.  The Leafs are definitely short on C at the moment, so adding Tavares and removing Matthews doesn't solve that problem.

I think that might be why IF they were to land Tavares, that the guys talked about that could be moved would be wingers.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that the Leafs trade Matthews if they get Tavares.  And Nik has a point about seizing the opportunity to get better at this moment in time.  I don't agree that signing Tavares is the best move, but it's not an incomprehensible or indefensible one.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:13:04 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 12:05:17 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 11:59:19 AM
That's not the point I'm reacting to in this particular post.  It's the suggestion that getting JT makes it easier to trade Marner or Nylander for the backend help we need (more than JT I would argue).  If so, why not include Matthews in the calculus?  He's got the highest value and is the only one of the 3 likely to fetch a Karlsson.

I am including him in the calculus. I'm saying that adding Tavares doesn't change the equation. Matthews is still more valuable to the team than Karlsson would be. Team's don't improve by trading their most valuable pieces as opposed to their less valuable ones. Matthews has the highest value, therefore he's the most valuable guy to the team. Adding Tavares does not create a redundancy.

Well, this is where we disagree.  Moving Matthews to get Karlsson is just a hypothetical, and not something I'd necessarily actually do.  But it is a possible route to getting a Karlsson (which trading 29 or 16 won't accomplish).  And that brings me back to my fundamental argument: we need a Karlsson more than a Tavares. 

So long as we're playing thought experiment, here's another one: if Tavares and Karlsson (or some other premier d-man) were both UFAs this year, which one would you rather get?  I go Karlsson every time simply because we do have a 1C in Matthews.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 12:20:36 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:13:04 PM
Well, this is where we disagree.

Again, you're "disagreeing" with the overwhelming evidence that teams benefit from having two players who are both capable of being top-tier centres. That's the only argument here. If you're claiming there is a redundancy you have to argue why having Gretzky lessened Messier's value or why having Sakic diminished Forsberg's role. Or how Malkin and Crosby, who frequently play together on the PP, somehow get in each others way.

Simply put, #1C does not exist as a position the way you think it does.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 25, 2018, 12:24:53 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:13:04 PM
So long as we're playing thought experiment, here's another one: if Tavares and Karlsson (or some other premier d-man) were both UFAs this year, which one would you rather get?  I go Karlsson every time simply because we do have a 1C in Matthews.

Assuming we're talking about players with comparable talent levelers (potential -- likely? -- HOFers), I think I'd still rather pay a 28 year old center rather than an older, more injured defenseman.

Anyhow, even if we signed Tavares, no way would I trade a similarly talented center on his entry level deal for someone like Karlsson. Leafs would be better off trading a forward made redundant by Tavares for a Parayko or Slavin or Lindholm. Get someone whose Norrises are in the future and who's signed to a good contract with some term.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 01:07:49 PM

Also, as a sort of side note, I don't necessarily buy that Marner or Nylander couldn't land you an elite #1 defenseman. Maybe not on their own but if a Doughty or Subban were legitimately on the block and their teams wanted a good young forward for them as part of a larger package then I don't know that they'd get any better offers. Especially in Marner's case.

Honestly, the list of really good young forwards in the league that are much better than Marner is pretty short and I'm guessing most of the guys on it would be just about untouchable.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 25, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
With JT and Matthews on the team, I'm not convinced you'd need an elite #1D. Marner or Nylander could get you a very, very good player. Perhaps not a future HOFer, but definitely someone with serious potential.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 25, 2018, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 01:07:49 PM

Also, as a sort of side note, I don't necessarily buy that Marner or Nylander couldn't land you an elite #1 defenseman. Maybe not on their own but if a Doughty or Subban were legitimately on the block and their teams wanted a good young forward for them as part of a larger package then I don't know that they'd get any better offers. Especially in Marner's case.

Honestly, the list of really good young forwards in the league that are much better than Marner is pretty short and I'm guessing most of the guys on it would be just about untouchable.

Agreed.  And furthermore, team control over an asset and age go a long long way to determining value.  Marner, who isn't a UFA for a long time, and has all of his peak years ahead of him, should be at least as valuable than Doughty, who's almost 30 and is one year away from UFA.  But position comes into play (RHD is the hardest position to find quality players) so almost nobody would agree that Marner is enough for Doughty.

Its why you're more likely to trade Marner (or Nylander) for a young d-man with pedigree.  Hence, seeing swaps like Johansen for Jones.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 25, 2018, 02:29:11 PM
Or you trade Nylander for other assets and sign Doughty on the FA market. Only trading Nylander then for the cap space.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 25, 2018, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 25, 2018, 02:29:11 PM
Or you trade Nylander for other assets and sign Doughty on the FA market. Only trading Nylander then for the cap space.

Well, yeah, theoretically speaking.  The chances that we could sign BOTH Tavares and Doughty in back to back years is about as close to zero as me getting a date with Arianna Grande
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 25, 2018, 03:09:37 PM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 25, 2018, 02:29:11 PM
Or you trade Nylander for other assets and sign Doughty on the FA market. Only trading Nylander then for the cap space.

That's way too risky for me.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 12:20:36 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:13:04 PM
Well, this is where we disagree.

Again, you're "disagreeing" with the overwhelming evidence that teams benefit from having two players who are both capable of being top-tier centres. That's the only argument here. If you're claiming there is a redundancy you have to argue why having Gretzky lessened Messier's value or why having Sakic diminished Forsberg's role. Or how Malkin and Crosby, who frequently play together on the PP, somehow get in each others way.

Simply put, #1C does not exist as a position the way you think it does.

Well, actually I was disagreeing with what I said I was disagreeing with, not with your non sequitur.

As for your side note, ehhhh I dunno.  Marner is probably the more attractive of the 2 compared with Nylander but unless you really sweetened the deal beyond him by adding, oh, say, Nylander haha hoho I don't think you are going to return a Norris type, which is what we are talking about when you plug in the name "Karlsson" into this thinkpiece.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
Marner is probably the more attractive of the 2 compared with Nylander

I will fight you.

(http://www.mynhldraft.com/players/Mitch%20Marner.jpg)(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYkv7NNg8iahVSdNwPZ8VzqGBMt6vhI27VaeyABJKkuyxuWcvZ)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 03:44:03 PM
https://theathletic.com/407569/2018/06/25/lebrun-notebook-john-tavares-list-of-teams-carter-hutton-and-jonathan-bernier-drawing-interest/

QuoteOne of the interesting things about it all is that two of the teams pitching to the prized UFA centre this week also got to do it with Stamkos two years ago. The Sharks and Maple Leafs (along with Buffalo and Montreal) also pitched to Stamkos in late June 2016.

And I would argue with opposite effect.

Stamkos, by all accounts, was put off by Toronto's over-the-top presentation and pretty much right after that one phoned Tampa Bay to say 'let's make a deal.' Whereas it's long been believed that the Sharks would have been Stamkos' pick had he decided to leave the Lightning, and in fact, as I've speculated before, San Jose and Tampa would have been ready to do a sign-and-trade, too, to get Stamkos the eight years in San Jose and get the Lightning some compensation in return.

The Leafs have learned from that Stamkos experience and a source indicated over the weekend they would have a more low-key approach in the Tavares pitch. And surely, the actual Leafs of today on the ice compared to two years ago makes for a better sell.

lolololol
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 25, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: herman on June 25, 2018, 03:44:03 PM
https://theathletic.com/407569/2018/06/25/lebrun-notebook-john-tavares-list-of-teams-carter-hutton-and-jonathan-bernier-drawing-interest/

QuoteOne of the interesting things about it all is that two of the teams pitching to the prized UFA centre this week also got to do it with Stamkos two years ago. The Sharks and Maple Leafs (along with Buffalo and Montreal) also pitched to Stamkos in late June 2016.

And I would argue with opposite effect.

Stamkos, by all accounts, was put off by Toronto's over-the-top presentation and pretty much right after that one phoned Tampa Bay to say 'let's make a deal.' Whereas it's long been believed that the Sharks would have been Stamkos' pick had he decided to leave the Lightning, and in fact, as I've speculated before, San Jose and Tampa would have been ready to do a sign-and-trade, too, to get Stamkos the eight years in San Jose and get the Lightning some compensation in return.

The Leafs have learned from that Stamkos experience and a source indicated over the weekend they would have a more low-key approach in the Tavares pitch. And surely, the actual Leafs of today on the ice compared to two years ago makes for a better sell.

lolololol
Love this part... "in fact, as I've speculated before"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: cabber24 on June 25, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: herman on June 25, 2018, 03:44:03 PM
https://theathletic.com/407569/2018/06/25/lebrun-notebook-john-tavares-list-of-teams-carter-hutton-and-jonathan-bernier-drawing-interest/

QuoteOne of the interesting things about it all is that two of the teams pitching to the prized UFA centre this week also got to do it with Stamkos two years ago. The Sharks and Maple Leafs (along with Buffalo and Montreal) also pitched to Stamkos in late June 2016.

And I would argue with opposite effect.

Stamkos, by all accounts, was put off by Toronto's over-the-top presentation and pretty much right after that one phoned Tampa Bay to say 'let's make a deal.' Whereas it's long been believed that the Sharks would have been Stamkos' pick had he decided to leave the Lightning, and in fact, as I've speculated before, San Jose and Tampa would have been ready to do a sign-and-trade, too, to get Stamkos the eight years in San Jose and get the Lightning some compensation in return.

The Leafs have learned from that Stamkos experience and a source indicated over the weekend they would have a more low-key approach in the Tavares pitch. And surely, the actual Leafs of today on the ice compared to two years ago makes for a better sell.

lolololol
Love this part... "in fact, as I've speculated before"

Ha, me too.  How fatuous can you get?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
Well, actually I was disagreeing with what I said I was disagreeing with, not with your non sequitur.

Your argument is predicated on there being a redundancy if a team has two very good C's, something history proves as being conclusively false. Whatever you'd like to unilaterally declare as the parameters of the topic, if it's based on a demonstrably false premise it's beside the point.

Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
As for your side note, ehhhh I dunno.  Marner is probably the more attractive of the 2 compared with Nylander but unless you really sweetened the deal beyond him by adding, oh, say, Nylander haha hoho I don't think you are going to return a Norris type, which is what we are talking about when you plug in the name "Karlsson" into this thinkpiece.

Well gosh, how can I compete with "ehhh I dunno".

Chris Pronger got traded and the best young player the Oilers got in return was a 22 year old Joffrey Lupul. I think Marner stacks up.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 05:53:46 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.
Let's not try to pretend to know what Matthews wants. I will say this, if Matthews has indicated to the Leafs that he wants to be captain, then I don't offer it to JT. If being the captain is the deciding factor, well too bad then. This is Matthews' team, not JT's. Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here. Who knows, maybe Babs' visit to the desert was about this scenario and to see what Matthews wanted.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 05:57:10 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 05:53:46 PMMoney aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here.

The chance to play with talented forwards and have a chance for a cup seems to be something just about every team he's talking to will be able to offer him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 06:02:11 PM

Well, it's happening:

https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/status/1011367273339150337
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
Um, no. Matthews is 7 years younger and by all accounts a better player. Replacing Matthews with Tavares is a step backwards.
Tavares first 2 seasons...161gp  53g 68a...121pts  -31.....
Matthews....144gp  74g  58a...132pts  +27
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 05:57:10 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 05:53:46 PMMoney aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here.

The chance to play with talented forwards and have a chance for a cup seems to be something just about every team he's talking to will be able to offer him.
Dallas? Not really. NYI? No. Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
https://twitter.com/arashmadani/status/1011367273339150337

Here we gooooo
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:13:39 PM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
What the hell we're trading Matthews now? I want my Tavares and I'm keeping Matthews, Marner and Nylander too. Cap be damned
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 06:15:15 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PMDallas? Not really.

Dallas had 92 points last year. Add Tavares and Heiskanen and they're definitely in the mix.

Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

If the only thing the Leafs bring to the table is nostalgia then I'm pretty confident in saying he's not coming here.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 05:53:46 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.
Let's not try to pretend to know what Matthews wants. I will say this, if Matthews has indicated to the Leafs that he wants to be captain, then I don't offer it to JT. If being the captain is the deciding factor, well too bad then. This is Matthews' team, not JT's. Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here. Who knows, maybe Babs' visit to the desert was about this scenario and to see what Matthews wanted.
I agree. Regardless of what we think about the capataincy and if it's important at all to players, it comes down to what the players think. If the Leafs have already talked to Matthews and he's on board with Tavares being offered the C than fine, if Mathews wants to be captain then it's his to take. He's the guy who ideally will be a star in the league for the next 10-12 years.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:19:47 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 06:15:15 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PMDallas? Not really.

Dallas had 92 points last year. Add Tavares and Heiskanen and they're definitely in the mix.

Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

If the only thing the Leafs bring to the table is nostalgia then I'm pretty confident in saying he's not coming here.
It's not the only thing but thx for coming out.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:24:16 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 06:15:15 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PMDallas? Not really.

Dallas had 92 points last year. Add Tavares and Heiskanen and they're definitely in the mix.

Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
Boston, yes but it isn't home. Leafs have the emotional attachment for being his fav team growing up.

If the only thing the Leafs bring to the table is nostalgia then I'm pretty confident in saying he's not coming here.
Leafs will have everything prepared, I'd expect nothing less from Dubas and Shanahan. Other things being equal, like salary and talent on the team, the nostalgia factor could put the Leafs over the top. Every team in the conversation could say they're close to being a true Cup contender, Leafs included, only the Leafs can sell the dream of winning for your home city, a team you cheered for as a kid. Add in the fact it would be the first team to do it in over 50+ years and it's truly something that could sway him.  Hockey is the #1 sport in Toronto, you can't say the same for Tampa, Boston,NY or Dallas. In Toronto a Cup would mean more to the city than all those other places who have baseball, football and basketball all seen as bigger accomplishments
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 25, 2018, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:24:16 PMLeafs will have everything prepared, I'd expect nothing less from Dubas and Shanahan. Other things being equal, like salary and talent on the team, the nostalgia factor could put the Leafs over the top. Every team in the conversation could say they're close to being a true Cup contender, Leafs included, only the Leafs can sell the dream of winning for your home city, a team you cheered for as a kid. Add in the fact it would be the first team to do it in over 50+ years and it's truly something that could sway him.  Hockey is the #1 sport in Toronto, you can't say the same for Tampa, Boston,NY or Dallas. In Toronto a Cup would mean more to the city than all those other places who have baseball, football and basketball all seen as bigger accomplishments

I think for the most part what you're talking about are meaningless abstractions or are things that are largely immaterial to hockey players. Additionally, as mentioned before, there are downsides to it being his home market and it's relative prominence with local media.

This is a hockey culture that routinely chides and shames players for desiring any sort of individual attention. Then, come free agent time, Leafs fans are all "BUT DON'T YOU WANT THE SPOTLIGHT?"

The end result? A pretty mediocre record in attracting free agents.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:35:23 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2018, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:24:16 PMLeafs will have everything prepared, I'd expect nothing less from Dubas and Shanahan. Other things being equal, like salary and talent on the team, the nostalgia factor could put the Leafs over the top. Every team in the conversation could say they're close to being a true Cup contender, Leafs included, only the Leafs can sell the dream of winning for your home city, a team you cheered for as a kid. Add in the fact it would be the first team to do it in over 50+ years and it's truly something that could sway him.  Hockey is the #1 sport in Toronto, you can't say the same for Tampa, Boston,NY or Dallas. In Toronto a Cup would mean more to the city than all those other places who have baseball, football and basketball all seen as bigger accomplishments

I think for the most part what you're talking about are meaningless abstractions or are things that are largely immaterial to hockey players. Additionally, as mentioned before, there are downsides to it being his home market and it's relative prominence with local media.

This is a hockey culture that routinely chides and shames players for desiring any sort of individual attention. Then, come free agent time, Leafs fans are all "BUT DON'T YOU WANT THE SPOTLIGHT?"

The end result? A pretty mediocre record in attracting free agents.
In the past the Leafs weren't a desirable destination for free agents cause frankly they were a bad team with no homegrown talent they could point to and show the potential FA how life could be good here. Now they have that, so they're on even footing with other clubs making a pitch and selling the dream of playing for a contender. Money will be similar in all offers, tax havens notwithstanding, so you have to sell something a bit different. Toronto has that for a guy like Tavares. Whether or not he wants it is another question altogether.  I think they have to play the nostalgia card cause they're the only option that can.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 06:46:44 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 05:53:46 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
If Matthews is genuinely going to throw a hissy fit because the Leafs want to improve the state of their team, then yeah I'm pretty sure I don't want him as the teams leader.

He won't.  Publicly.  And he may be OK with it privately.  But he might not.  There is a risk here, that's all.
Let's not try to pretend to know what Matthews wants. I will say this, if Matthews has indicated to the Leafs that he wants to be captain, then I don't offer it to JT. If being the captain is the deciding factor, well too bad then. This is Matthews' team, not JT's. Money aside, the chance for JT to play with our talented bunch up front and go for a cup is all he should need to come here. Who knows, maybe Babs' visit to the desert was about this scenario and to see what Matthews wanted.

If this concept has any validity at all, then that's just the problem.  If it doesn't, then there is none.  And as I said, we wouldn't know from Matthews' public pronouncements one way or the other.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 25, 2018, 06:48:39 PM
Quote from: herman on June 25, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
https://twitter.com/arashmadani/status/1011367273339150337

Here we gooooo

It's like a getting an audience with one of the sheikhs in the Emirates.  Spine-tingling!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:49:26 PM
Apparently Lou has a chance to meet with Tavares right after the Leafs pitch. Lol. He probably specifically requested that slot.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on June 25, 2018, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
Did you happen to drop a mind altering drug before you wrote this?  I drank a bottle of Sake for lunch and had no such notions. I actually watched Nylander undress OEL about 10 yards in front of me at the Yotes blue line, skate in and bury a beauty.  Great defence man, I like him but we have plenty of potential OELs in our system, courtesy of the our draft.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
How did I miss Nik posting the tweet before I did? Dang need to pay more attention.

https://twitter.com/downgoesbrown/status/1011375312653955072
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 07:43:26 PM
Quote from: herman on June 25, 2018, 07:39:20 PM
How did I miss Nik posting the tweet before I did? Dang need to pay more attention.

https://twitter.com/downgoesbrown/status/1011375312653955072
Nik is Down Goes Brown? *thinking gif*
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 07:45:53 PM
Oh no, I meant the tweet about the Leafs arriving at the TAVARES-Talk.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 25, 2018, 07:46:45 PM
C'mon Johnny T, forget Lou & Trotz.  Think Babs, Shanny & Dube.  Sounds better anyways.  :D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 25, 2018, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 25, 2018, 07:46:45 PM
C'mon Johnny T, forget Lou & Trotz.  Think Babs, Shanny & Dube.  Sounds better anyways.  :D

They look better too.

https://twitter.com/davidnestico200/status/1011379084004417538
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 25, 2018, 07:51:33 PM
Yes!!

[tweet]1011386174101950465[/tweet]
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 25, 2018, 08:49:25 PM
I guess that one play makes him terrible then???
OEL is a legit number 1 D and we really don't have one in the system, last season made that very apparent.
Quote from: Highlander on June 25, 2018, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
Did you happen to drop a mind altering drug before you wrote this?  I drank a bottle of Sake for lunch and had no such notions. I actually watched Nylander undress OEL about 10 yards in front of me at the Yotes blue line, skate in and bury a beauty.  Great defence man, I like him but we have plenty of potential OELs in our system, courtesy of the our draft.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 25, 2018, 09:13:25 PM
Babcock went along to talk to Dubas about re-signing Komarov. "sure this Tavares kid is ok, but Uncle Leo..."
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 25, 2018, 11:06:58 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 09:13:25 PM
Babcock went along to talk to Dubas about re-signing Komarov. "sure this Tavares kid is ok, but Uncle Leo..."
lol...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Peter D. on June 26, 2018, 09:11:59 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 25, 2018, 10:30:33 AM
If he doesn't sign here I'd be pretty happy to see him in Dallas. Especially if they can manage to re-sign Seguin too.

Who would get to wear #91?  :o
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 26, 2018, 09:20:02 AM
Tavares is getting married this summer and his future wife is from Oakville.  You can order your Tavares San Jose jerseys now.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 26, 2018, 09:28:28 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 25, 2018, 06:35:23 PMMoney will be similar in all offers, tax havens notwithstanding, so you have to sell something a bit different. Toronto has that for a guy like Tavares. Whether or not he wants it is another question altogether. 

I really don't think you do have to sell something different. I think the approach of the team should effectively be that of any other team, with the primary focus being on Tavares and how he fits into the club, how highly the team thinks of him and what they're willing to give him. They need to sell him on the club and the city.

Because otherwise, what if the hometown angle doesn't really play? Should they just rule themselves out of any free agent who isn't from here or is from here but doesn't really think about that much? They need to be good salesmen on the opportunity and Tavares himself.

A lot of the best free agent signings the Leafs ever made were guys who had no connection to here. When they signed them, they won them over with their club and, quite frankly, money. That should be the focus.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 26, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

I don't think so, because then if they do land him, people will use the same logic and suggest that we always can, just see Tavares, John.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 26, 2018, 09:42:08 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

I'll reserve judgement on this until Matthews commits here long term and doesn't jump to go and play in Arizona.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on June 26, 2018, 09:45:48 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

On the flipside, how has attracting top free agents worked out for NYR?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 26, 2018, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: Bender on June 26, 2018, 09:45:48 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

On the flipside, how has attracting top free agents worked out for NYR?

Reasonably well?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2018, 10:00:56 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeCormack/status/1011592868446654464

*gasp* he's a nerd just like Kyle!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 26, 2018, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2018, 10:00:56 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeCormack/status/1011592868446654464

*gasp* he's a nerd just like Kyle!

Geez, hey John this isn't rocket science, it's just hockey man.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 26, 2018, 10:13:44 AM
Apparently Mike Babcock's son Michael Babcock is attending Isles mini-camp.  Great, now Lou has a hostage.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 26, 2018, 10:15:21 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 26, 2018, 10:13:44 AM
Apparently Mike Babcock's son Michael Babcock is attending Isles mini-camp.  Great, now Lou has a hostage.

They're called wards.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 26, 2018, 10:17:42 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2018, 10:00:56 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeCormack/status/1011592868446654464

*gasp* he's a nerd just like Kyle!

Did they compare books/binders and tabs?

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/f860437113b2ce1047dc4e3cc8303443/tumblr_nirmnzjByw1tv1iqko1_250.gif)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 26, 2018, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

I think we can already say it matters a lot less than a large portion of fans want to believe it does. Players follow the money and the opportunity to win. Everything else comes after that.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 26, 2018, 10:46:04 AM
It'd sure be nice to decide from where you're going to receive your bi-weekly $750,000 cheque.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Highlander on June 26, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 08:49:25 PM
I guess that one play makes him terrible then???
OEL is a legit number 1 D and we really don't have one in the system, last season made that very apparent.
Quote from: Highlander on June 25, 2018, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
Did you happen to drop a mind altering drug before you wrote this?  I drank a bottle of Sake for lunch and had no such notions. I actually watched Nylander undress OEL about 10 yards in front of me at the Yotes blue line, skate in and bury a beauty.  Great defence man, I like him but we have plenty of potential OELs in our system, courtesy of the our draft.
No sir OEL is a great defenseman, no questions about that, mostly about trading Matthews. You never trade Matthews, at least not until we win 2-3 cups in a row
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 26, 2018, 11:11:14 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 26, 2018, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

I think we can already say it matters a lot less than a large portion of fans want to believe it does. Players follow the money and the opportunity to win. Everything else comes after that.

I'm not so sure that's exactly true.  I think players, like anyone, considers family circumstances, quality of life/city, advancement opportunities, and teammates/friends/co-workers, as well as the dollars...especially when the dollars are going to be pretty damn close on most of the offers.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 26, 2018, 11:16:58 AM
Again the premise was that we already had a number 1 center and the Coyote's had a lesser 1 to give us back.  We are already looking an uncomfortable rumblings from Matthews so if I could turn him into 2 prime position assets I do it.
Quote from: Highlander on June 26, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 08:49:25 PM
I guess that one play makes him terrible then???
OEL is a legit number 1 D and we really don't have one in the system, last season made that very apparent.
Quote from: Highlander on June 25, 2018, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: Bates on June 25, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Here's a bunch of ifs.  If the Coyotes had an OK 1st line center and if the Leafs could sign sign Tavares I would be Ok with sending Matthews home for OEL and that 1st line center of their's.
Did you happen to drop a mind altering drug before you wrote this?  I drank a bottle of Sake for lunch and had no such notions. I actually watched Nylander undress OEL about 10 yards in front of me at the Yotes blue line, skate in and bury a beauty.  Great defence man, I like him but we have plenty of potential OELs in our system, courtesy of the our draft.
No sir OEL is a great defenseman, no questions about that, mostly about trading Matthews. You never trade Matthews, at least not until we win 2-3 cups in a row
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on June 26, 2018, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: Bender on June 26, 2018, 09:45:48 AM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

On the flipside, how has attracting top free agents worked out for NYR?

Reasonably well?
Really? They just gutted their team, haven't won since Messier etc. IIRC none of their signings worked out THAT well. Their best asset has always been Lundqvist.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 26, 2018, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: Bender on June 26, 2018, 12:45:27 PM
Really? They just gutted their team, haven't won since Messier etc. IIRC none of their signings worked out THAT well. Their best asset has always been Lundqvist.

We may be talking about two different things here but even if you want to make the case that they've occasionally targeted the wrong players they've been pretty successful with regards to landing the players they've targeted. Sometimes those benefits have been direct, othertimes indirect(Say what you will about signing Scott Gomez but they got a pretty solid return when they traded him). No matter what, the ability to get the guys you want is good.

As for the other thing, I really don't think Leafs fans are in any position to turn their nose up at a team that's never really bottomed out yet has still managed to make the cup finals fairly recently.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2018, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 01:26:14 PM
We may be talking about two different things here but even if you want to make the case that they've occasionally targeted the wrong players they've been pretty successful with regards to landing the players they've targeted. Sometimes those benefits have been direct, othertimes indirect(Say what you will about signing Scott Gomez but they got a pretty solid return when they traded him). No matter what, the ability to get the guys you want is good.

His first season with the team wasn't a raging success, but Shattenkirk took a pretty decent sized home-town discount when he signed with the Rangers last year.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Deebo on June 26, 2018, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: L K on June 26, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
So if they fail to acquire Tavares can we stop pretending that players remotely give a damn about playing for their home team.   We don't sign guys to hometown discounts and we don't attract top free agents.

Some do, some don't. All players aren't the same. Parise left the Devils play close to home, Shattenkirk took a smaller deal than he likely could have got elsewhere to play in NY.

As for not attracting top free agents, there really haven't been very many top free agents from the area in the cap era and the Leafs have also been very bad for a very long time.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 26, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: Deebo on June 26, 2018, 01:29:21 PM
Some do, some don't. All players aren't the same. Parise left the Devils play close to home, Shattenkirk took a smaller deal than he likely could have got elsewhere to play in NY.

Yeah, but even then I'd be careful about trying to attach specific motivations there. Shattenkirk took a smaller deal to play in New York City. Parise went back home to Minnesota...and a giant mountain of cash.

Were they influenced by boyhood dreams of one day being a Ranger or whatever the singular version of The Wild is? Maybe, I'm sure they said something to that effect but I still think the equation is very different for the Leafs when "going home" carries its own unique headaches.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 26, 2018, 01:55:27 PM
https://twitter.com/JohnLuTSNMtl/status/1011659364309061632

How could we have possibly topped this?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

In fact, they didn't even have to mention it overtly — just by presenting him with a Leafs "C" jersey (assuming that's accurate) they played it.  If Tavares grew up dreaming of playing for the Leafs, that boyhood experience never goes away, even if he's sublimated it.  Is it written there in his 70-page notebook?  Doesn't matter ... it's there in his mind.  Money etc. may well trump it [note to self: need different word there] but it's a factor.

As an aside, look up Lindros' pic the day he signed with the Leafs.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 26, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

I would genuinely be surprised if it constituted a major part of their pitch.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 26, 2018, 03:22:34 PM
I'm assuming the major pitch included:
- we don't suck like we used to
- we have lots of many to pay for non-hockey stuff, such as fancy planes, etc.
- the Gardiner Expressway will eventually be fixed (but, hey, you could always bike the waterfront instead)
- seriously, we don't suck anymore and with you, Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, we'll be playoff-bound for sure
- playoff goatees are A-OK!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 26, 2018, 04:20:54 PM
Interesting thought from Marc Savers on Hockey Central today. With Tavares being a shoot first center a part of his presentation would have been pitching the ability to play with Marner who is a great setup guy.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 26, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

I would genuinely be surprised if it constituted a major part of their pitch.

I'd guess they could mount a compelling enough case around being one of the top 8 teams in the league, trending up as their young stars continue to develop, having a coach he's won with before, investing in a lot of off-the-ice perks, and being able to afford him...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 26, 2018, 05:56:49 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 26, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

I would genuinely be surprised if it constituted a major part of their pitch.

I'd guess they could mount a compelling enough case around being one of the top 8 teams in the league, trending up as their young stars continue to develop, having a coach he's won with before, investing in a lot of off-the-ice perks, and being able to afford him...

Yeah, but you want to save at least a five minute bloc for "...Also, John, you're from here! Not San Jose! Remember Toronto? The city you lived in? That's where you'd be playing! For the Leafs! Sick of just calling your mom when you could see her every day? Can't do that in Dallas!"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 08:23:31 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 26, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

I would genuinely be surprised if it constituted a major part of their pitch.

I'd guess they could mount a compelling enough case around being one of the top 8 teams in the league, trending up as their young stars continue to develop, having a coach he's won with before, investing in a lot of off-the-ice perks, and being able to afford him...

... and fulfilling his dream.  Assuming he grew up a Leafs fan, that is.  If he didn't, then it's just a business transaction.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: jdh1 on June 26, 2018, 09:25:36 PM
I,m still wondering how serious the Leaf offer is. Do they want him for just 1 year and go for it?  or are they angling on a 7 year deal.  If they do go for the 7 can they fit all the top players in the cap ?

Or are they playing safe if Mathews and Babcock can,t exist together and can,t make a deal in the next year.  Taveras becomes the no.1 center.

This has probably been discussed here already but i,m trying to figure it out.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on June 26, 2018, 10:30:33 PM
Quote from: jdh1 on June 26, 2018, 09:25:36 PM
I,m still wondering how serious the Leaf offer is. Do they want him for just 1 year and go for it?  or are they angling on a 7 year deal.  If they do go for the 7 can they fit all the top players in the cap ?

Or are they playing safe if Mathews and Babcock can,t exist together and can,t make a deal in the next year.  Taveras becomes the no.1 center.

This has probably been discussed here already but i,m trying to figure it out.

There are many other teams that are very serious so I can't imagine the Leafs would waste his time if they weren't as well.

The Leafs have every reason to be serious.  They can definitely fit Tavares and the big 3 under the cap.  Can they fit Tavares, the big 3 and Gardiner?  I can't remember.  It may depend on the details of what they all want.  But even if they can't, I think Tavares > Nylander.  So if they were forced to trade Nylander, it wouldn't be so bad as he'd fetch a kings ransom in prospects and draft picks.

  (Tavares + Nylander for 1 year + the return on the trade of Nylander) >>> Nylander

So it makes sense to grab Tavares no matter what in my mind.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: jdh1 on June 26, 2018, 11:05:30 PM
Quote from: princedpw on June 26, 2018, 10:30:33 PM
Quote from: jdh1 on June 26, 2018, 09:25:36 PM
I,m still wondering how serious the Leaf offer is. Do they want him for just 1 year and go for it?  or are they angling on a 7 year deal.  If they do go for the 7 can they fit all the top players in the cap ?

Or are they playing safe if Mathews and Babcock can,t exist together and can,t make a deal in the next year.  Taveras becomes the no.1 center.

This has probably been discussed here already but i,m trying to figure it out.

There are many other teams that are very serious so I can't imagine the Leafs would waste his time if they weren't as well.

The Leafs have every reason to be serious.  They can definitely fit Tavares and the big 3 under the cap.  Can they fit Tavares, the big 3 and Gardiner?  I can't remember.  It may depend on the details of what they all want.  But even if they can't, I think Tavares > Nylander.  So if they were forced to trade Nylander, it wouldn't be so bad as he'd fetch a kings ransom in prospects and draft picks.

  (Tavares + Nylander for 1 year + the return on the trade of Nylander) >>> Nylander

So it makes sense to grab Tavares no matter what in my mind.
If they move Nylander down the road then I can see where they make up the space in the cap.Probably a good trade off.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 27, 2018, 07:25:16 AM
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1011930395972067328
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 27, 2018, 08:35:18 AM
Quote from: herman on June 27, 2018, 07:25:16 AM
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1011930395972067328

If he doesn't sign with NY today or tomorrow, after his last meetings, I suppose that means he's going to one of these other teams.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 27, 2018, 08:38:16 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 27, 2018, 08:35:18 AM
If he doesn't sign with NY today or tomorrow, after his last meetings, I suppose that means he's going to one of these other teams.

I won't believe that to be true until after midnight on Saturday. The scuttlebutt is that he's being very deliberate about this decision, and it wouldn't surprise me if he takes as much time as is available to him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 08:44:10 AM
I think one of the problems I have with the whole hometown thing is that if you break it down with brutal honesty you begin to see just how much weight you're putting on it.

I'm as big a Toronto partisan as any but let's be real with some disadvantages to signing here with any hockey concerns eliminated:

- Taxes are fairly high
- The weather isn't for everyone
- It's not the nicest looking city
- In terms of natural attractions...there ain't none
- An invasive media
- A somewhat fickle fanbase when it comes to players

And on the flipside:

- Playing for the Leafs may have meant a lot to you as a kid

To be sure there are some great things about the city as well but a lot of those things are fairly meaningless to hockey players, or maybe even less than that. Having a great bar scene doesn't matter much if fans are constantly bugging you and a great food scene seems less exciting if reporters are checking to make sure you're eating right so they know what to blame if you have a disappointing season.

What's especially frustrating about this for me is I was saying all this stuff during the lockouts. Capping the one real direct benefit a player can get from this city, we're suckers for hockey so we'll pay anything, really puts the Leafs in a hole.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 27, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
I've been to a lot of cities. Some are nicer than Toronto some are not. Toronto will always be my favorite because it's my city. I'm not saying Tavares feels like that, but some players do I'm sure. And those that do have incentive to sign here for more reasons than just they cheered for Toronto as a kid.

I'm not saying it outweighs the negatives, just saying there can be a strong emotional pull to the city on top of the team. In my experience, emotion often rules over logic. Of course, that's why players have agents.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 27, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
I'm not saying it outweighs the negatives, just saying there can be a strong emotional pull to the city on top of the team.

Sure but let's be real. Each and everyone of these guys, if they want, can spend as much time as they want to in their hometowns during the summers.  There's a pretty far gap between having affection for a city and feeling like you need to live there year round.

Also, and I can't speak for you and your experiences, it seems unlikely that someone who didn't grow up in the city would have a genuine affection for the city. Which isn't to say that he wouldn't be a fan of the Leafs or didn't like, I don't know, going to Canada's Wonderland as a kid but if you grow up in Oakville I don't know how much connection you're going to feel to Toronto as a city. I can definitely say that as someone who grew up in Toronto proper I have little to no feelings about the surrounding towns where I never spent any time.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 09:28:17 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 27, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
I've been to a lot of cities. Some are nicer than Toronto some are not. Toronto will always be my favorite because it's my city. I'm not saying Tavares feels like that, but some players do I'm sure. And those that do have incentive to sign here for more reasons than just they cheered for Toronto as a kid.

I'm not saying it outweighs the negatives, just saying there can be a strong emotional pull to the city on top of the team. In my experience, emotion often rules over logic. Of course, that's why players have agents.

I think the problem I would have is that I'd like to spend my time in a nice warm climate.  I can fly back "home" to Toronto and visit whenever I want when I make $10m a year.  I can spend my summer here, and in Muskoka.  Heck, I can leave my wife and family in Oakville if they want, and I'll just rent a massive awesome condo in San Jose.

If the only teams that were bidding on his services were northern climates, then sure, I think Toronto has some very nice appeal.  But you throw Dallas, Tampa, and San Jose in the mix, and I think Dubas is screwed, unless he's offering a lot more money.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 27, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
If i was picking a place to play and weather was a major consideration I would not be picking San Jose.  It's cold there despite being "warmer" than most NHL Cities in the winter.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 09:36:00 AM
Another thing, and I realize that my experiences as a just ok high school baseball player would be very different than Tavares' as a hockey phenom, is that I don't know if people with pro aspirations necessarily look at things the same way your average fans do.

Did I occasionally think about how great it'd be to be a Blue Jay? Sure. Did I also think it would have been awesome to be a Cub and get to play in Historic Wrigley Field? Yup. Despite all that, would I have slit someone's throat to get to be a 4th outfielder for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays? Absolutely. My own recollections of taking sports seriously is being tunnel focused on just making it to the next level by any means necessary.

My hunch is that the sort of "Wouldn't it be awesome to win a championship for the Leafs" daydreaming stuff is probably more pronounced in people who are further away from the actual work of the sport.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: Bates on June 27, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
If i was picking a place to play and weather was a major consideration I would not be picking San Jose.  It's cold there despite being "warmer" than most NHL Cities in the winter.

I think you'd seriously struggle to find somewhere that was as temperate. Nice weather, to some folks, is as much about warmth in the winter as it is avoiding 40 degrees in the sun.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 27, 2018, 10:02:52 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 27, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
I'm not saying it outweighs the negatives, just saying there can be a strong emotional pull to the city on top of the team.

Sure but let's be real. Each and everyone of these guys, if they want, can spend as much time as they want to in their hometowns during the summers.  There's a pretty far gap between having affection for a city and feeling like you need to live there year round.

Also, and I can't speak for you and your experiences, it seems unlikely that someone who didn't grow up in the city would have a genuine affection for the city. Which isn't to say that he wouldn't be a fan of the Leafs or didn't like, I don't know, going to Canada's Wonderland as a kid but if you grow up in Oakville I don't know how much connection you're going to feel to Toronto as a city. I can definitely say that as someone who grew up in Toronto proper I have little to no feelings about the surrounding towns where I never spent any time.

Good point on the offseason. And that emotional is probably different for everyone. I grew up in Scarboro and Mississauga then moved to Toronto when I was 20 or so. But I was downtown all the time, Jay games, the Ex, visiting family, just going to Yonge st for the day as a teenager, etc...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 27, 2018, 10:07:50 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 09:28:17 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on June 27, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
I've been to a lot of cities. Some are nicer than Toronto some are not. Toronto will always be my favorite because it's my city. I'm not saying Tavares feels like that, but some players do I'm sure. And those that do have incentive to sign here for more reasons than just they cheered for Toronto as a kid.

I'm not saying it outweighs the negatives, just saying there can be a strong emotional pull to the city on top of the team. In my experience, emotion often rules over logic. Of course, that's why players have agents.

I think the problem I would have is that I'd like to spend my time in a nice warm climate.  I can fly back "home" to Toronto and visit whenever I want when I make $10m a year.  I can spend my summer here, and in Muskoka.  Heck, I can leave my wife and family in Oakville if they want, and I'll just rent a massive awesome condo in San Jose.

If the only teams that were bidding on his services were northern climates, then sure, I think Toronto has some very nice appeal.  But you throw Dallas, Tampa, and San Jose in the mix, and I think Dubas is screwed, unless he's offering a lot more money.

Sure, and maybe Tavares has a similar opinion.  I wouldn't want to spend all my time in a hot climate, but that's just me. The taxes, on the other hand, would probably influence my opinion. I'm just saying the potential pull to any team is not just because the player likes or liked that team as a kid. People can actually care about cities too, even cities that aren't the best cities to live in. Maybe JVR will end up in a swamp, just because he calls it home.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 27, 2018, 10:09:24 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 09:28:17 AM
I think the problem I would have is that I'd like to spend my time in a nice warm climate.  I can fly back "home" to Toronto and visit whenever I want when I make $10m a year.  I can spend my summer here, and in Muskoka.  Heck, I can leave my wife and family in Oakville if they want, and I'll just rent a massive awesome condo in San Jose.

That's a huge part of it, and I imagine a lot of players who have established a life in one city but end up playing in another do just that. And, for someone like Tavares, who doesn't have any kids, is just getting married this summer (I think - best I can find is he proposed last August), there aren't significant family issues to worry about. In fact, he's likely to prioritize a city that A) has interesting things for him and his wife to do, B) has cheap flights for his wife to visit her family, as he'll be on the road a lot, and C) is somewhere he can see himself living long-term. Is that Toronto? It can certainly be argued it ticks the first box, and possibly the third, but, unless his wife is also from the GTA, it certainly doesn't tick the second in as strong a way as any major US city.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Deebo on June 27, 2018, 10:26:22 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 27, 2018, 10:09:24 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 09:28:17 AM
I think the problem I would have is that I'd like to spend my time in a nice warm climate.  I can fly back "home" to Toronto and visit whenever I want when I make $10m a year.  I can spend my summer here, and in Muskoka.  Heck, I can leave my wife and family in Oakville if they want, and I'll just rent a massive awesome condo in San Jose.

That's a huge part of it, and I imagine a lot of players who have established a life in one city but end up playing in another do just that. And, for someone like Tavares, who doesn't have any kids, is just getting married this summer (I think - best I can find is he proposed last August), there aren't significant family issues to worry about. In fact, he's likely to prioritize a city that A) has interesting things for him and his wife to do, B) has cheap flights for his wife to visit her family, as he'll be on the road a lot, and C) is somewhere he can see himself living long-term. Is that Toronto? It can certainly be argued it ticks the first box, and possibly the third, but, unless his wife is also from the GTA, it certainly doesn't tick the second in as strong a way as any major US city.

She is from the GTA.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D

Have to figure a lot of that would get eaten up by the relatively higher cost of living in Toronto than in other cities. Also, very rich people will by and large spend the smallest % of their money locally.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D

Have to figure a lot of that would get eaten up by the relatively higher cost of living in Toronto than in other cities. Also, very rich people will by and large spend the smallest % of their money locally.

That, and you're at a 50% tax rate here.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 27, 2018, 10:38:22 AM
They had Chris Botta on the radio here yesterday to talk about Tavares.

He covered the Islanders for the first few years that Tavares was in the league.  They asked him about his thoughts on the situation.  Some of the points he had:

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:40:02 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D

Have to figure a lot of that would get eaten up by the relatively higher cost of living in Toronto than in other cities. Also, very rich people will by and large spend the smallest % of their money locally.

That, and you're at a 50% tax rate here.

And he's at a 50% tax rate in New York too.  ;)

Cost of living is high in New York. Tampa on the other hand...

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 27, 2018, 10:47:14 AM
So another thing that somebody questioned is how much do Lou and Brisson not want Tavares to go to Toronto?

Lou is obvious.

Brisson because Matthews switched agents.  Brisson used to be his agent with CAA.  Now Matthews is with the Orr group.  I imagine that doesn't come in to play at all, right?  Because player X left his organization, that doesn't mean that he would be against the team that player plays with or not negotiate in good faith, because that would sort of mean your a crap agent at that point, at least in my mind. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 10:48:24 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D

For someone earning $10,000,000 you pay about $1,250,000 more in taxes in Ontario vs Florida.  You have to exchange the U.S. into Canadian and tax the Canadian sum.  This does not factor in any tax saving methods but those are limited for employment income in Ontario. I do not know what is available in the U.S.  Exchange rates fluctuate.

My friend just moved to Boston and he says the price of housing is a bit higher than Toronto. When you make that much I cannot see the cost of living being a huge factor. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 11:09:48 AM
Quote from: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 10:48:24 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D

For someone earning $10,000,000 you pay about $1,250,000 more in taxes in Ontario vs Florida.  You have to exchange the U.S. into Canadian and tax the Canadian sum.  This does not factor in any tax saving methods but those are limited for employment income in Ontario. I do not know what is available in the U.S.  Exchange rates fluctuate.

My friend just moved to Boston and he says the price of housing is a bit higher than Toronto. When you make that much I cannot see the cost of living being a huge factor.

So, assuming your math is correct, the difference between Ontario and Florida would be $8.75M in Tavares' pocket over the course of a 7 year contract.

That's a pretty big deal.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 27, 2018, 11:14:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 27, 2018, 10:47:14 AM
Brisson because Matthews switched agents.  Brisson used to be his agent with CAA.  Now Matthews is with the Orr group.  I imagine that doesn't come in to play at all, right?  Because player X left his organization, that doesn't mean that he would be against the team that player plays with or not negotiate in good faith, because that would sort of mean your a crap agent at that point, at least in my mind.

A good, reputable agent will also place what's best for their client ahead of their personal feelings (or, at least, try their best to). Brisson, by all accounts, is a good, reputable agent.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 27, 2018, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 27, 2018, 11:14:02 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 27, 2018, 10:47:14 AM
Brisson because Matthews switched agents.  Brisson used to be his agent with CAA.  Now Matthews is with the Orr group.  I imagine that doesn't come in to play at all, right?  Because player X left his organization, that doesn't mean that he would be against the team that player plays with or not negotiate in good faith, because that would sort of mean your a crap agent at that point, at least in my mind.

A good, reputable agent will also place what's best for their client ahead of their personal feelings (or, at least, try their best to). Brisson, by all accounts, is a good, reputable agent.

Matthews also merely changed agencies, not agents, as it was his agent Judd Moldaver that switched from CAA to Orr/Wasserman.

This story will be overblown in the 3rd season finale an AMC drama called Agents 12 years from now about CAA's co-founders, Pat Brisson and JP Barry, played by... hmm... let me think... Jon Hamm and John Slattery?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 11:40:47 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 11:09:48 AM
Quote from: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 10:48:24 AM
Quote from: Dappleganger on June 27, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I see a lot of people talk about the tax situation but do people also talk about converting your US dollar paycheck into Canadian and getting a 25% bump?

$11m US converts to $14.615m CND right now.

That's not nothing. I know I'd love that. I sometimes get paid in US with the work I do, and I enjoy it.  ;D

For someone earning $10,000,000 you pay about $1,250,000 more in taxes in Ontario vs Florida.  You have to exchange the U.S. into Canadian and tax the Canadian sum.  This does not factor in any tax saving methods but those are limited for employment income in Ontario. I do not know what is available in the U.S.  Exchange rates fluctuate.

My friend just moved to Boston and he says the price of housing is a bit higher than Toronto. When you make that much I cannot see the cost of living being a huge factor.

So, assuming your math is correct, the difference between Ontario and Florida would be $8.75M in Tavares' pocket over the course of a 7 year contract.

That's a pretty big deal.

I did the exchanges more accurately back and forth and used the Ontario tax and converted it back to U.S. No accounting for fees which are another issue.  The loss is about $1,000,000 a year USD or $1,328,000 CAD.

His net in Florida is about $6,000,000 a year.  He gets about $5,240,000 on Long Island. Boston is about $5,5 million. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on June 27, 2018, 11:57:48 AM
Help me out here guys; should I get my Tavares sweater in the home or away colours?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Guru Tugginmypuddah on June 27, 2018, 11:57:48 AM
Help me out here guys; should I get my Tavares sweater in the home or away colours?

I'd go with the Leafs new teal 3rd Jersey with the logo of an angry Shark on the front.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 12:23:25 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Guru Tugginmypuddah on June 27, 2018, 11:57:48 AM
Help me out here guys; should I get my Tavares sweater in the home or away colours?

I'd go with the Leafs new teal 3rd Jersey with the logo of an angry Shark on the front.

That's where my money is, that or Tampa.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 27, 2018, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 08:23:31 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 26, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

I would genuinely be surprised if it constituted a major part of their pitch.

I'd guess they could mount a compelling enough case around being one of the top 8 teams in the league, trending up as their young stars continue to develop, having a coach he's won with before, investing in a lot of off-the-ice perks, and being able to afford him...

... and fulfilling his dream.  Assuming he grew up a Leafs fan, that is.  If he didn't, then it's just a business transaction.

Right. My point is that the business transaction end looks pretty good for the Leafs.

Unless, by 'business,' you mean getting into tax law to figure out exactly what fraction of the upcoming millions go where... but I can't think that that's as likely a consideration as some here are imagining it to be.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 27, 2018, 12:49:27 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 12:23:25 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Guru Tugginmypuddah on June 27, 2018, 11:57:48 AM
Help me out here guys; should I get my Tavares sweater in the home or away colours?

I'd go with the Leafs new teal 3rd Jersey with the logo of an angry Shark on the front.

That's where my money is, that or Tampa.

I say he stays with the Islanders.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 27, 2018, 12:50:16 PM
He's coming here. You gotta Beleaf.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on June 27, 2018, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 27, 2018, 12:50:16 PM
He's coming here. You gotta Beleaf.

The streets will flow with the blood of the non beleafers!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 27, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 27, 2018, 12:50:16 PM
He's coming here. You gotta Beleaf.

Just like an England fan should think in the World Cup... I hold zero hope of anything good happening.  That way, I'm not disapointed.  Elation will ensue if it happens though.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 27, 2018, 01:44:02 PM
Most nhl players spend their summers elsewhere, and San Jose can actually be cold in the summer. During the months of the season there are numerous Cities with weather as nice as San Jose. Unless you are talking June the hottest nhl Cities really aren't in the 40's.
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: Bates on June 27, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
If i was picking a place to play and weather was a major consideration I would not be picking San Jose.  It's cold there despite being "warmer" than most NHL Cities in the winter.

I think you'd seriously struggle to find somewhere that was as temperate. Nice weather, to some folks, is as much about warmth in the winter as it is avoiding 40 degrees in the sun.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 27, 2018, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator

Whoever it is, I need to fight him or her re: Nylander trade talk.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 27, 2018, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 27, 2018, 12:50:16 PM
He's coming here. You gotta Beleaf.

I'm with you man.  I've been disappointed as a Leafs man too many times in my life. This time I have to be-Leaf it's happening, and when it does it leads directly to the Stanley Cup. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 27, 2018, 01:59:29 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator

That calculator seems to be off.  US Federal Income tax goes to 37% above 600k.  His effective rate would be approximately 36.3%, or approximately $4M per season on a $11M AAV.  So, 7x11 (* 36.3%) = $28M in taxes.  The calculator has it at $24M in taxes.  Note, that increases his taxes for EVERY US city on there (ie, everyone except Toronto).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator

I don't get their numbers for Florida.  I have tried three online tax calculators and get $6,097,000 net on $10,000,000.  TSN has it at $6,828,000.  I used the better trump taxes too.  Any ideas? 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 27, 2018, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 27, 2018, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 08:23:31 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on June 26, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 26, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Does anyone here really think the Leafs *didn't* play the hometown angle in their pitch yesterday?

I would genuinely be surprised if it constituted a major part of their pitch.

I'd guess they could mount a compelling enough case around being one of the top 8 teams in the league, trending up as their young stars continue to develop, having a coach he's won with before, investing in a lot of off-the-ice perks, and being able to afford him...

... and fulfilling his dream.  Assuming he grew up a Leafs fan, that is.  If he didn't, then it's just a business transaction.

Right. My point is that the business transaction end looks pretty good for the Leafs.

Unless, by 'business,' you mean getting into tax law to figure out exactly what fraction of the upcoming millions go where... but I can't think that that's as likely a consideration as some here are imagining it to be.

No, I agree with you completely. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 27, 2018, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator

I don't get their numbers for Florida.  I have tried three online tax calculators and get $6,097,000 net on $10,000,000.  TSN has it at $6,828,000.  I used the better trump taxes too.  Any ideas?

Your mentioning trump brings up another very good reason for him to sign with the Leafs.  Believe me, a lot of us would come over if we could get jobs in Canada.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 27, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 27, 2018, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: Average Joes on June 27, 2018, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator

I don't get their numbers for Florida.  I have tried three online tax calculators and get $6,097,000 net on $10,000,000.  TSN has it at $6,828,000.  I used the better trump taxes too.  Any ideas?

Your mentioning trump brings up another very good reason for him to sign with the Leafs.  Believe me, a lot of us would come over if we could get jobs in Canada.

Except for Timmy Thomas. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: sneakyray on June 27, 2018, 02:27:58 PM
haven't read the whole thread but haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet.  If the offer is for 7 years and the whole idea is for JT to win, if thats his biggest draw to any particular organization than shouldn't the pitch be what the team would potentially look like in the back half of the contract?

For instance dubas could show that they intend on keeping matthews, marner and nylander so that in the last year of JT's contract when he is turning 35 those other 3 will all me in their late 20's still and should still make up the anchor of the best offence in the league.

to me that should be the pitch, John if you come to toronto they will be a top 5 cup contender for the entire 7 years (barring injury or lockout or whatever unforeseen stuff...)

Like what will boston look like in 5 years...no more bergeron, no more chara, marchand will be old.

same with SJ...even TB in 5 years pretty much everyone will be past their prime or at least near the end.

in toronto in 5 years all the stars are still smack dab in the middle of their prime..JT would literally be investing in apple as they are introducing the first iphone.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 27, 2018, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on June 27, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 27, 2018, 02:14:43 PM
Your mentioning trump brings up another very good reason for him to sign with the Leafs.  Believe me, a lot of us would come over if we could get jobs in Canada.

Except for Timmy Thomas.

and Adam Fox!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on June 27, 2018, 02:44:17 PM
There are a lot of things to say about this thread.  I'm going with this one:

If there is a god, he (or she!) can offer proof of existence by pushing Tavares to Toronto.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 27, 2018, 03:25:01 PM
Quote from: herman on June 27, 2018, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on June 27, 2018, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 27, 2018, 02:14:43 PM
Your mentioning trump brings up another very good reason for him to sign with the Leafs.  Believe me, a lot of us would come over if we could get jobs in Canada.

Except for Timmy Thomas.

and Adam Fox!

???  I've seen it reported that he didn't wan't to leave Harvard early and plans on going to UFA after college... not sure it has anything to do with it being Calgary??
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 27, 2018, 04:47:16 PM
Quote from: louisstamos on June 27, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
I feel like someone at TSN lurks this forum

Tavares teams' tax calculator
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tavares-calculator

I'm certainly nowhere close to a tax expert, but is this really that simple? Don't athletes have to file taxes for any/most road cities that they play in during the season in addition to where they have their permanent residence? Also again, not a tax expert, but I'm pretty sure Tavares will have a pretty good accountant who will help minimize what he's going to owe.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on June 27, 2018, 06:09:05 PM
I wonder how the jvr presentations are going
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 27, 2018, 07:06:54 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 27, 2018, 06:09:05 PM
I wonder how the jvr presentations are going

It's tough to make the PowerPoint presentations when your Dad's basement doesn't have white walls.  No wi-fi, either.

He has salt and vinegar chips (kettle cooked) in case anyone gets hungry...he ate the cool ranch Doritos already.  He's good to go at a minute's notice if you want to see  him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 27, 2018, 07:16:07 PM
https://twitter.com/jeffveillette/status/1012094100064100358

Looks like one of Tavares' best buds might be back with the Buds.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 27, 2018, 07:25:35 PM

Also, the Leafs have just announced that John Tavares' dad has won the Doug Gilmour award for outstanding achievement in the field of excellence.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on June 28, 2018, 12:26:50 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 27, 2018, 07:25:35 PM

Also, the Leafs have just announced that John Tavares' dad has won the Doug Gilmour award for outstanding achievement in the field of excellence.

Lol. It's worth a shot.

How are his grandma's apple pies?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 28, 2018, 03:54:55 AM
Total taxes paid assuming 11M AAV...

[tweet]1012001306708410369[/tweet]
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 07:56:00 AM
The Leafs, Sharks, and Islanders are considered the three favourites for Tavares and there's really not that much of a difference between the three there.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 28, 2018, 08:00:03 AM
What's to stop the Leafs from signing Tavares to only $10M/year, and giving his wife a job at $5M/year?  ;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 28, 2018, 08:29:42 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 28, 2018, 08:00:03 AM
What's to stop the Leafs from signing Tavares to only $10M/year, and giving his wife a job at $5M/year?  ;D

The guy who just got elected to the HOF.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 28, 2018, 09:02:29 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 28, 2018, 08:29:42 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 28, 2018, 08:00:03 AM
What's to stop the Leafs from signing Tavares to only $10M/year, and giving his wife a job at $5M/year?  ;D

The guy who just got elected to the HOF.

Well, mostly the CBA his second-in-command negotiated, but, yeah.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: L K on June 28, 2018, 09:08:38 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 07:56:00 AM
The Leafs, Sharks, and Islanders are considered the three favourites for Tavares and there's really not that much of a difference between the three there.

And that 300K would largely be negated by sponsorship opportunities in Toronto I would imagine.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 28, 2018, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 07:56:00 AM
The Leafs, Sharks, and Islanders are considered the three favourites for Tavares and there's really not that much of a difference between the three there.

How are they giving odds on who the favorites are if nobody is really talking?  Just guesswork?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 28, 2018, 10:15:51 AM
I'm starting to think the Leafs actually have a good shot here. Of the three, I think they've got the best outlook for the next five years, and that's got to be attractive.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 28, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 28, 2018, 10:15:51 AM
I'm starting to think the Leafs actually have a good shot here. Of the three, I think they've got the best outlook for the next five years, and that's got to be attractive.

Eh. Personally I'd still give that edge to the Sharks.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 28, 2018, 10:46:05 AM
I thought this would be over a long time ago and we'd hear he's going back to the Islanders, so I'm allowing myself to get excited now.  As a lifelong Leafs fan i'm fully prepared to have my heart ripped out and stepped on, but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 28, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
Eh. Personally I'd still give that edge to the Sharks.

Goaltending is about even. Both average starters.

Burns and Vlasic give the Sharks the edge on defence. Although Vlasic's the type of player whose play could start to go downhill in the next couple of years (if it hasn't already, his CF% was below 50 the past 2 seasons). He's just starting an 8-year deal with a $7mil AAV. Could be looking at the next Seabrook there.

At forward I'd take Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Kadri over Pavelski/Couture/Kane/Thornton. I think as you go further down the depth chart too the advantage stays with the Leafs.

Both teams will be very top-heavy cap-wise. The Sharks' core is significantly older though. Couture and Pavelski are both UFAs after next season too and I think it'll be tougher for them to re-sign those guys than it will be for us to re-sign our RFAs. They might be forced to lose one of them.

I dunno, I'd go Toronto here.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: MadMonk on June 28, 2018, 10:58:51 AM
The two worst scenarios for the Leafs are Tampa or Boston.  He'll probably go to Tampa or Boston.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on June 28, 2018, 11:01:23 AM
Quote from: MadMonk on June 28, 2018, 10:58:51 AM
The two worst scenarios for the Leafs are Tampa or Boston.  He'll probably go to Tampa or Boston.

This is the way I handle my Leafs expectations too.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 28, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: MadMonk on June 28, 2018, 10:58:51 AM
The two worst scenarios for the Leafs are Tampa or Boston.  He'll probably go to Tampa or Boston.

Yeah, that'll be picking up my heart and throwing it in the blender afterwards.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on June 28, 2018, 11:15:50 AM
How do Tampa and Boston fit Tavares under the cap? 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Guru Tugginmypuddah on June 28, 2018, 11:15:50 AM
How do Tampa and Boston fit Tavares under the cap? 

It'd probably require Tavares (and Kucherov for next year) to take a Stamkos-like "discount" in Tampa, but if they dump Callahan's contract and then trade Tyler Johnson that'd clear up a lot of space.

For Boston I think the prevailing theory is that if they get Tavares they'd have to trade Krejci, which seems doable.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 28, 2018, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
Goaltending is about even. Both average starters.

Burns and Vlasic give the Sharks the edge on defence. Although Vlasic's the type of player whose play could start to go downhill in the next couple of years (if it hasn't already, his CF% was below 50 the past 2 seasons). He's just starting an 8-year deal with a $7mil AAV. Could be looking at the next Seabrook there.

At forward I'd take Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Kadri over Pavelski/Couture/Kane/Thornton. I think as you go further down the depth chart too the advantage stays with the Leafs.

Both teams will be very top-heavy cap-wise. The Sharks' core is significantly older though. Couture and Pavelski are both UFAs after next season too and I think it'll be tougher for them to re-sign those guys than it will be for us to re-sign our RFAs. They might be forced to lose one of them.

I dunno, I'd go Toronto here.

From what I'm reading, a Couture extension is just about done. Obviously a Tavares contract could throw a spanner in those works but that seems relatively safe.

I guess where we disagree primarily is with regards to the relative importance of the defense and the forward depth of each team. I think I'd take Hertl/Tierney/Donskoi/Meier and the rest over Kapanen/Hyman/Brown/Johnsson.

A Tavares-led Leafs, I think, you'd have to say were one of the more top-heavy talented teams and would be excellent contenders if they can figure the defense out. Him on the Sharks, however, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a more balanced and deeper contender in the immediate sense. So while I think things might generally be rosier for the Leafs five years from now, if I had to guess who'd be more likely to win within those 5 years...yeah I'd still say San Jose.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on June 28, 2018, 11:32:31 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 28, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
Eh. Personally I'd still give that edge to the Sharks.

Goaltending is about even. Both average starters.

Burns and Vlasic give the Sharks the edge on defence. Although Vlasic's the type of player whose play could start to go downhill in the next couple of years (if it hasn't already, his CF% was below 50 the past 2 seasons). He's just starting an 8-year deal with a $7mil AAV. Could be looking at the next Seabrook there.

At forward I'd take Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Kadri over Pavelski/Couture/Kane/Thornton. I think as you go further down the depth chart too the advantage stays with the Leafs.

Both teams will be very top-heavy cap-wise. The Sharks' core is significantly older though. Couture and Pavelski are both UFAs after next season too and I think it'll be tougher for them to re-sign those guys than it will be for us to re-sign our RFAs. They might be forced to lose one of them.

I dunno, I'd go Toronto here.

Along those lines, I think I agree... but, if weighing the teams and wondering what's in that big binder he had prepared, I'd include a few other elements that teams might be pitching him: AHL team success/ prospect pipeline, NHL team's recent success, and resumes of the coaching staff. There I think it's advantage Leafs, Sharks, and draw.

I guess it might come down to whether JT's thinking of his chances in years 1 and 2 or 5, 6, and 7.

And there's the chance that back-channel lobbying comes into play, so I'd consider where he has friends / former teammates / players he might listen to.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 11:35:29 AM
One pretty big thing in San Jose's favour in terms of who will have more success in the next few years is the playoff format. The Leafs will continue to have to go through Tampa and Boston to get to the conference finals, while San Jose is in arguably the easiest division in the league.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on June 28, 2018, 11:38:03 AM
The Leafs should be in the mix for the full 7 years of a Tavares contract. SJ may have the edge now, but if you total odds on all 7 seasons, the Leafs have the edge. I mean assuming there are no changes anywhere in the next 7 years.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 28, 2018, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 28, 2018, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
Goaltending is about even. Both average starters.

Burns and Vlasic give the Sharks the edge on defence. Although Vlasic's the type of player whose play could start to go downhill in the next couple of years (if it hasn't already, his CF% was below 50 the past 2 seasons). He's just starting an 8-year deal with a $7mil AAV. Could be looking at the next Seabrook there.

At forward I'd take Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Kadri over Pavelski/Couture/Kane/Thornton. I think as you go further down the depth chart too the advantage stays with the Leafs.

Both teams will be very top-heavy cap-wise. The Sharks' core is significantly older though. Couture and Pavelski are both UFAs after next season too and I think it'll be tougher for them to re-sign those guys than it will be for us to re-sign our RFAs. They might be forced to lose one of them.

I dunno, I'd go Toronto here.

From what I'm reading, a Couture extension is just about done. Obviously a Tavares contract could throw a spanner in those works but that seems relatively safe.

I guess where we disagree primarily is with regards to the relative importance of the defense and the forward depth of each team. I think I'd take Hertl/Tierney/Donskoi/Meier and the rest over Kapanen/Hyman/Brown/Johnsson.

A Tavares-led Leafs, I think, you'd have to say were one of the more top-heavy talented teams and would be excellent contenders if they can figure the defense out. Him on the Sharks, however, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a more balanced and deeper contender in the immediate sense. So while I think things might generally be rosier for the Leafs five years from now, if I had to guess who'd be more likely to win within those 5 years...yeah I'd still say San Jose.

For the next year or two, yes SJ probably has a better shot.  But Pavelski is 33 and Thorton is about to turn 39.  Their window is 2 years and that's not giving you a ton of chances to win a championship considering the best team doesn't always win (injuries/luck/hot&cold goaltending etc).  The Leafs are approaching a 5+ year window of contending, based on their star players all being 22 and under.  They may be a step behind today, but that's a whole lot more opportunities to go all the way.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 28, 2018, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on June 28, 2018, 12:07:47 PM
For the next year or two, yes SJ probably has a better shot.  But Pavelski is 33 and Thorton is about to turn 39.  Their window is 2 years and that's not giving you a ton of chances to win a championship considering the best team doesn't always win (injuries/luck/hot&cold goaltending etc).  The Leafs are approaching a 5+ year window of contending, based on their star players all being 22 and under.  They may be a step behind today, but that's a whole lot more opportunities to go all the way.

The other way to look at that is that they get to take some pretty healthy shots with the current group and then have a reasonable amount of cap money coming off the books to load up again.

Again, like I said, I think the greater probability of immediate contender-ness, especially when combined with what CtB said about the division layout, favours San Jose. Especially given Tavares is probably a little tired of hearing about his team could contend with just a tweak or two.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 28, 2018, 12:30:26 PM
Interesting counter-point from Dom at the Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/410179/2018/06/27/by-the-numbers-analyzing-the-impact-john-tavares-would-have-on-the-six-teams-vying-for-his-services/

By his game-score metric, the Leafs are equal to the Sharks WITH Tavares.

Quote
San Jose Sharks
2018 Record: 45-27-10 (11th)
Cap Space: $18.8M
Without Tavares: Top 10 Team (97 points)
With Tavares: Dark Horse (102 points)

Toronto Maple Leafs
2018 Record: 49-26-7 (7th)
Cap Space: $24.7M
Without Tavares: Dark Horse (102 points)
With Tavares: Cup Contender (106 points)

The easier division is certainly a big thing in SJ's favour.  As would be, for me, living in the Bay Area. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 28, 2018, 01:46:36 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 10:50:52 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 28, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
Eh. Personally I'd still give that edge to the Sharks.

Goaltending is about even. Both average starters.

Burns and Vlasic give the Sharks the edge on defence. Although Vlasic's the type of player whose play could start to go downhill in the next couple of years (if it hasn't already, his CF% was below 50 the past 2 seasons). He's just starting an 8-year deal with a $7mil AAV. Could be looking at the next Seabrook there.

At forward I'd take Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Kadri over Pavelski/Couture/Kane/Thornton. I think as you go further down the depth chart too the advantage stays with the Leafs.

Both teams will be very top-heavy cap-wise. The Sharks' core is significantly older though. Couture and Pavelski are both UFAs after next season too and I think it'll be tougher for them to re-sign those guys than it will be for us to re-sign our RFAs. They might be forced to lose one of them.

I dunno, I'd go Toronto here.

Bolded part is the main reason behind my thinking that the Leafs have the edge.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 28, 2018, 03:09:08 PM
https://twitter.com/StapeAthletic/status/1012405816304046092
Oh yeah, of course, that's the best place to make a far-reaching decision about your future...

https://twitter.com/StapeAthletic/status/1012408958185889792
Lol
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on June 28, 2018, 04:25:36 PM
Think I will go for the blue Tavares sweater.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 28, 2018, 05:10:02 PM
https://twitter.com/scottcwheeler/status/1012441979001753600

Trying my damn hardest to keep my expectation level at zero.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on June 28, 2018, 05:30:26 PM
Hot diggity
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 05:43:55 PM
Props to RedLeaf for being way ahead of this one all the way back in 2014:

Quote from: RedLeaf on October 11, 2014, 09:56:44 AM
Quote from: freer on October 11, 2014, 08:46:14 AM
Quote from: cw on October 10, 2014, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: Heroic Shrimp on October 10, 2014, 10:51:58 PM
I don't know if it merits its own thread or not, but according to James Mirtle (@mirtle) via Twitter:

Hearing the Leafs will add Wes Clark to their hockey ops team. He's currently director of player development for the Soo Greyhounds.

Clark has worked training elite hockey players for a long time, including John Tavares. Will likely help Leafs develop their picks.


Here's some links on him:
http://www.soogreyhounds.com/page/hockey-operations_102431

http://www.soogreyhounds.com/article/clark-named-hounds-director-of-player-development

http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/wes-clark/17/4b5/1b9

http://www.theathletetrainingcentre.com/

I am honestly surprised that it took this long.

Can his friendship with Tavares help to lure John to Toronto? Wishful thinking, huh?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 28, 2018, 07:53:05 PM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on June 28, 2018, 05:10:02 PM
https://twitter.com/scottcwheeler/status/1012441979001753600

Trying my damn hardest to keep my expectation level at zero.

See Vesey, Jimmy.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: LuncheonMeat on June 28, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 28, 2018, 05:43:55 PM
Props to RedLeaf for being way ahead of this one all the way back in 2014:

Quote from: RedLeaf on October 11, 2014, 09:56:44 AM
Quote from: freer on October 11, 2014, 08:46:14 AM
Quote from: cw on October 10, 2014, 11:10:12 PM
Quote from: Heroic Shrimp on October 10, 2014, 10:51:58 PM
I don't know if it merits its own thread or not, but according to James Mirtle (@mirtle) via Twitter:

Hearing the Leafs will add Wes Clark to their hockey ops team. He's currently director of player development for the Soo Greyhounds.

Clark has worked training elite hockey players for a long time, including John Tavares. Will likely help Leafs develop their picks.


Here's some links on him:
http://www.soogreyhounds.com/page/hockey-operations_102431

http://www.soogreyhounds.com/article/clark-named-hounds-director-of-player-development

http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/wes-clark/17/4b5/1b9

http://www.theathletetrainingcentre.com/

I am honestly surprised that it took this long.

Can his friendship with Tavares help to lure John to Toronto? Wishful thinking, huh?

I think I'm more impressed with you finding that quote. No offense, RedLeaf.  :P
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
Suddenly people are saying that SJ has the best shot.....oh well I knew it was too good to be true he'd be a Leaf.

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Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 08:51:14 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 29, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
Suddenly people are saying that SJ has the best shot.....oh well I knew it was too good to be true he'd be a Leaf.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

I'm pretty sure I've been saying that for a while now.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2018, 09:10:03 AM
https://twitter.com/BDGallof/status/1012678606894624769

I actually had a similar thought too when Lou was brought on. Garth Snow is the only GM Tavares ever had before. He was his GM for 9 years. I can understand there being a certain level of loyalty that comes along with that kind of long-term relationship. But he has no sense of loyalty to Lou, why would he? Everyone thought that move might have convinced Tavares to stay on with the Islanders but it could very well have actually had the opposite effect.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 29, 2018, 09:20:30 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2018, 08:51:14 AM
Quote from: Zee on June 29, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
Suddenly people are saying that SJ has the best shot.....oh well I knew it was too good to be true he'd be a Leaf.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

I'm pretty sure I've been saying that for a while now.

Yeah, I don't think its sudden at all.  San Jose was always talked about as a potential destination.  And the more one takes a look at it, the more I think it ends up being his landing spot.

- Good chance to win now
- Older team, so not as good a chance to win later BUT Doug Wilson rebuilds on the fly better than just about anyone.
- Anonymity.  While most people believe JT wouldn't be phased by the media fishbowl in TO, that doesn't mean he's eager to deal with it
- Anonymity Pt 2 (Fiance).  While most believe that since JT's fiance is from the GTA, she may want to be close to family there are other signs that point me in the opposite direction.  She's quite private (no social media presence that we know of) and SHE may actually prefer the anonymity.
- Lifestyle.  I think its been covered pretty well that the bay area is quite attractive in terms of lifestyle.  Heck, Leaf homerism aside, if I was in his shoes I'd probably want to move to the Bay area given the chance and I LOVE living in TO.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 09:26:00 AM
I really don't think anonymity is a key factor. He still chooses to live in Toronto in the summer, so clearly it doesn't bother him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2018, 09:26:43 AM
All of you and your reasonable arguments.  Please just allow me to flip tables in frustration.


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Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2018, 09:29:44 AM
Quote from: Coco-puffs on June 29, 2018, 09:20:30 AM
Yeah, I don't think its sudden at all.  San Jose was always talked about as a potential destination.  And the more one takes a look at it, the more I think it ends up being his landing spot.

Arthur Staples reported that Toronto and LA appeared to be his two personal preferences initially too, so once LA had to bow out San Jose obviously became a pretty logical replacement for them.

But I mean, he's coming to Toronto.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: LuncheonMeat on June 28, 2018, 09:16:16 PM
I think I'm more impressed with you finding that quote. No offense, RedLeaf.  :P

I was gonna make a post about how this is Wes Clark's 2nd time around with the Leafs and did a quick search for when he was first hired to get some info, but then I got lazy and just posted that instead.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 09:44:22 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 09:26:00 AM
I really don't think anonymity is a key factor. He still chooses to live in Toronto in the summer, so clearly it doesn't bother him.

Agreed. I think we can largely strike that one off. It's a little different during the season, but the team is also on the road half that time, and players are pretty busy with practices, meetings, and games while they're in town, so it feels like a non-factor.

I still suspect he stays with the Islanders - mostly because elite free agents stay with their teams. Other than Niedermayer, I honestly can't think of another that left their original team as a free agent before the twilight of their careers.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 09:26:00 AM
I really don't think anonymity is a key factor. He still chooses to live in Toronto in the summer, so clearly it doesn't bother him.

There's a pretty big difference, I think, between wanting to be anonymous in your hometown when you're a reasonably well known hockey player for a fairly underpublicized New York team and wanting some anonymity when you're the most famous guy on the most famous team in town.

They did a quick hit about this on TSN yesterday with Lebrun and Mike Johnson and honestly the way they talked about the realities of playing in Toronto made it sound pretty bad.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
I can understand that. I once had a dinner with a well-known Canadian celebrity and his family and it was really annoying. The worst was the constant flow of people saying:

- "you know, I don't normally come up to people, but....."
- "I'm so sorry for interrupting your dinner, but...."
- "Could I just get a quick picture....it'll only take a second...."

Once or twice would be ok; but after the 20th time.....well I came to understand the prison that fame can be. The fans being polite didn't help much, because it was the total amount of interruption that was annoying, not any single request.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 29, 2018, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2018, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 09:26:00 AM
I really don't think anonymity is a key factor. He still chooses to live in Toronto in the summer, so clearly it doesn't bother him.

There's a pretty big difference, I think, between wanting to be anonymous in your hometown when you're a reasonably well known hockey player for a fairly underpublicized New York team and wanting some anonymity when you're the most famous guy on the most famous team in town.

They did a quick hit about this on TSN yesterday with Lebrun and Mike Johnson and honestly the way they talked about the realities of playing in Toronto made it sound pretty bad.

I think the realities of playing in Toronto being pretty bad goes hand in hand with how well the team is doing.  For the past 50 years, there have only been small stretches were the team has been good, so for the most part, it should sound bad to play here.

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 10:10:02 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
I can understand that. I once had a dinner with a well-known Canadian celebrity and his family and it was really annoying. The worst was the constant flow of people saying:

- "you know, I don't normally come up to people, but....."
- "I'm so sorry for interrupting your dinner, but...."
- "Could I just get a quick picture....it'll only take a second...."

Once or twice would be ok; but after the 20th time.....well I came to understand the prison that fame can be. The fans being polite didn't help much, because it was the total amount of interruption that was annoying, not any single request.

The way they phrased it, and I may be half remembering it, was something along the lines of "If he comes here and succeeds, there's a lot of upside. If he comes here and they don't succeed, there's more downside as well. Tavares has to decide if he's ready for that risk and if his family is as well."

It was the latter part of it that sort of hit home for me. Even if Tavares was prepared for the media/fan attention and potentially his hot dog consumption becoming municipal fodder, would you want to do that to your family? I don't think it's much of an exaggeration either. I'm sure most of us remember some of the uglier things that happened with Phaneuf that blew back onto his now wife when he was here. If he doesn't play well, it may very well manifest itself in unpleasant experiences for his family. That's a hell of a thing to potentially ask of them.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on June 29, 2018, 10:11:05 AM
Come on guys. I'm a little surprised with all the reasons given why JT won't chose Toronto and so little about why he WILL select the Leafs !

I guess it eases the blow when you have your mind wrapped around him going elsewhere or staying with the Islanders, but the Leafs have a very good shot at this !!

I would not be surprised if he's a Leaf in a day or two.

*Fingers crossed*

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
I can understand that. I once had a dinner with a well-known Canadian celebrity and his family and it was really annoying. The worst was the constant flow of people saying:

- "you know, I don't normally come up to people, but....."
- "I'm so sorry for interrupting your dinner, but...."
- "Could I just get a quick picture....it'll only take a second...."

Once or twice would be ok; but after the 20th time.....well I came to understand the prison that fame can be. The fans being polite didn't help much, because it was the total amount of interruption that was annoying, not any single request.

I think you were more annoyed with it than I was, Frog.  I'm used to it, and it doesn't bother me.  I actually enjoy all the adulation.  I much enjoyed our dinner, and I think I made those 20 or so peoples' evenings. 

What I thought was rude is that you didn't even offer to pick up the tab.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2018, 10:14:03 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
I can understand that. I once had a dinner with a well-known Canadian celebrity and his family and it was really annoying. The worst was the constant flow of people saying:

- "you know, I don't normally come up to people, but....."
- "I'm so sorry for interrupting your dinner, but...."
- "Could I just get a quick picture....it'll only take a second...."

Once or twice would be ok; but after the 20th time.....well I came to understand the prison that fame can be. The fans being polite didn't help much, because it was the total amount of interruption that was annoying, not any single request.

I hear ya.  The wife and I once saw Silken Laumann having dinner a few tables away from us and although we looked over and noticed we refrained from the "I don't normally do this..." so I was proud of myself.

Fast forward a few years later and we're eating at Me-Va-Me restaurant and the kids spot some YouTube celebrities they watch and went up to them to ask for a selfie.  I laughed.  ;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
I think one big difference between being an entertainment celebrity, and a NHL hockey player in Toronto, is that being in the entertainment business requires some press to keep you in the limelight to maintain your fame, and therefore, your paycheques.

You can make the same money being anonymous NHLer in Dallas as you could being bothered every time you drop off at your dry-cleaners in Toronto.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on June 29, 2018, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
I think one big difference between being an entertainment celebrity, and a NHL hockey player in Toronto, is that being in the entertainment business requires some press to keep you in the limelight to maintain your fame, and therefore, your paycheques.

You can make the same money being anonymous NHLer in Dallas as you could being bothered every time you drop off at your dry-cleaners in Toronto.

Yeah.  It's definitely a personality trait situation. Some people feed off the attention and some shy away from it .
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on June 29, 2018, 10:29:58 AM
I leave famous people alone.  They really don't give a shit about you, nor should they. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Average Joes on June 29, 2018, 11:12:47 AM
I thought millennials love media attention? 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 11:20:25 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
I think one big difference between being an entertainment celebrity, and a NHL hockey player in Toronto, is that being in the entertainment business requires some press to keep you in the limelight to maintain your fame, and therefore, your paycheques.

Well, that and you figure that the entertainment business is one where one of the draws might be for people who like attention. Meanwhile dopes like Lamoriello are constantly preaching a hockey culture that holds up seeking individual attention as a grave moral failing on par with murdering children or growing a beard.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
Quote from: RedLeaf on June 29, 2018, 10:11:05 AM
Come on guys. I'm a little surprised with all the reasons given why JT won't chose Toronto and so little about why he WILL select the Leafs !

I guess it eases the blow when you have your mind wrapped around him going elsewhere or staying with the Islanders, but the Leafs have a very good shot at this !!

I would not be surprised if he's a Leaf in a day or two.

*Fingers crossed*

Pluses:

1.  It's home, it's close to family for him and his wife.
2.  He can work for a very prestigious organization.
3.  He has a nice surrounding cast with a positive future outlook.
4.  Media is great...when you're winning.
5.  Knows the subway routes.

Minuses:

1.  Nowhere to hide/privacy.
2.  Media scrutiny can be very tough, when you lose.
3.  It's cold here, a lot.
4.  Taxes suck.
5.  It's maybe too close to family, all the time.
6.  The Gardiner potholes can rip the front splitter right off your McLaren 720S.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2018, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
3.  It's cold here, a lot.

Uh, today might not be the best day to make that argument.

But actually, are winters here really that bad? Are they any different than other cities in the east like Detroit, Washington, New York, Boston?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
4.  Media is great...when you're winning.

Is it? I feel like it's more a case of "Media is intrusive when you're winning, relentlessly critical when you're not".

Maybe a cup win would change things but Sundin especially was still pretty heavily criticized even when the team was pretty good.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2018, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
3.  It's cold here, a lot.

Uh, today might not be the best day to make that argument.

But actually, are winters here really that bad? Are they any different than other cities in the east like Detroit, Washington, New York, Boston?

Probably not worse than those, but certainly lousier than SJ, Tampa, or Dallas.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
Probably not worse than those, but certainly lousier than SJ, Tampa, or Dallas.

Sure, but, at the same time, we are talking about guys who make their living playing on ice. I wonder how many of them actually find it jarring to leave work and have it be t-shirt weather outside in January. A lot obviously don't or they get used to it, but some probably do.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Coco-puffs on June 29, 2018, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
Probably not worse than those, but certainly lousier than SJ, Tampa, or Dallas.

Sure, but, at the same time, we are talking about guys who make their living playing on ice. I wonder how many of them actually find it jarring to leave work and have it be t-shirt weather outside in January. A lot obviously don't or they get used to it, but some probably do.

I played hockey last night.  Nothing better than going to and leaving the rink in shorts and flip-flops.  Now, the ice sucked because of the warm weather but oh well- I still scored 3 :)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
Probably not worse than those, but certainly lousier than SJ, Tampa, or Dallas.

Sure, but, at the same time, we are talking about guys who make their living playing on ice. I wonder how many of them actually find it jarring to leave work and have it be t-shirt weather outside in January. A lot obviously don't or they get used to it, but some probably do.

Yah you're crazy, it would be great.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 12:50:38 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
Probably not worse than those, but certainly lousier than SJ, Tampa, or Dallas.

Sure, but, at the same time, we are talking about guys who make their living playing on ice. I wonder how many of them actually find it jarring to leave work and have it be t-shirt weather outside in January. A lot obviously don't or they get used to it, but some probably do.

Yah you're crazy, it would be great.

Oh, I'm confident it's not the majority of players who feel that way. I'm just sure there are some - and, maybe Tavares is one of them.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2018, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 12:50:38 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
Probably not worse than those, but certainly lousier than SJ, Tampa, or Dallas.

Sure, but, at the same time, we are talking about guys who make their living playing on ice. I wonder how many of them actually find it jarring to leave work and have it be t-shirt weather outside in January. A lot obviously don't or they get used to it, but some probably do.

Yah you're crazy, it would be great.

Oh, I'm confident it's not the majority of players who feel that way. I'm just sure there are some - and, maybe Tavares is one of them.

It's great that he's making his decision during the hottest Toronto stretch in years.  He'll soak up some sun today and think "damn, Toronto weather is pretty damn good, where's Dubas's number again?"
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on June 29, 2018, 01:25:05 PM
Can't help but wonder , if JT was sceptical about coming to Toronto for all these potential drawbacks  and issues that may arise if he were to put on the Maple Leaf white and blue, why would he even bother including Toronto on his shortlist?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on June 29, 2018, 01:25:05 PM
Can't help but wonder , if JT was sceptical about coming to Toronto for all these potential drawbacks  and issues that may arise if he were to put on the Maple Leaf white and blue, why would he even bother including Toronto on his shortlist?

Why put the richest team in the league with a ton of cap space on your shortlist?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on June 29, 2018, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on June 29, 2018, 01:25:05 PM
Can't help but wonder , if JT was sceptical about coming to Toronto for all these potential drawbacks  and issues that may arise if he were to put on the Maple Leaf white and blue, why would he even bother including Toronto on his shortlist?

Yeah, I mean he's not ignorant to the downsides of being a Leaf. The things we're mulling over now are things he's probably thought about for a very long time.

I also kind of thing that there could be the idea that if he came over and won a Cup with the Leafs that he'd basically be immortalized forever. Heck, he'd probably be immortalized anyway even if he didn't win (Gilmour, Clark etc).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 29, 2018, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
I can understand that. I once had a dinner with a well-known Canadian celebrity and his family and it was really annoying. The worst was the constant flow of people saying:

- "you know, I don't normally come up to people, but....."
- "I'm so sorry for interrupting your dinner, but...."
- "Could I just get a quick picture....it'll only take a second...."

Once or twice would be ok; but after the 20th time.....well I came to understand the prison that fame can be. The fans being polite didn't help much, because it was the total amount of interruption that was annoying, not any single request.

I think you were more annoyed with it than I was, Frog.  I'm used to it, and it doesn't bother me.  I actually enjoy all the adulation.  I much enjoyed our dinner, and I think I made those 20 or so peoples' evenings. 

What I thought was rude is that you didn't even offer to pick up the tab.

Very nicely done.

As for Nik, I happen to know that he's on the payroll of the San Jose Chamber of Commerce so just ignore him.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 29, 2018, 02:14:10 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2018, 11:20:25 AM
Quote from: Frank E on June 29, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
I think one big difference between being an entertainment celebrity, and a NHL hockey player in Toronto, is that being in the entertainment business requires some press to keep you in the limelight to maintain your fame, and therefore, your paycheques.

Well, that and you figure that the entertainment business is one where one of the draws might be for people who like attention. Meanwhile dopes like Lamoriello are constantly preaching a hockey culture that holds up seeking individual attention as a grave moral failing on par with murdering children or growing a beard.

OK, so several of you are in good form today.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on June 29, 2018, 03:55:08 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 09:44:22 AM
Quote from: Bullfrog on June 29, 2018, 09:26:00 AM
I really don't think anonymity is a key factor. He still chooses to live in Toronto in the summer, so clearly it doesn't bother him.

Agreed. I think we can largely strike that one off. It's a little different during the season, but the team is also on the road half that time, and players are pretty busy with practices, meetings, and games while they're in town, so it feels like a non-factor.

I still suspect he stays with the Islanders - mostly because elite free agents stay with their teams. Other than Niedermayer, I honestly can't think of another that left their original team as a free agent before the twilight of their careers.

I've lived in Toronto my whole life and I've never run into a leaf player anywhere. Ever. I don't get this 'getting harassed in the streets' mentality. And whatever restaurants they go to I sure as hell cant afford.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 04:03:46 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 29, 2018, 03:55:08 PM
I've lived in Toronto my whole life and I've never run into a leaf player anywhere. Ever. I don't get this 'getting harassed in the streets' mentality. And whatever restaurants they go to I sure as hell cant afford.

Same. The only time I've ever run into a Leaf - or even a former Leaf - that wasn't at an event where they were publicized to be part of has been at the ACC. It's much easier for them to stay out of the spotlight than people like to play up. I mean, I like to think of myself as a pretty serious fan, but, truthfully, I wouldn't recognize most of the team out in the real world - and, even some of the more prominent players wouldn't be instantly recognizable to me. We don't really get much exposure to them out of uniform - or, even, just without their helmets on - and that makes it harder for them to be instantly recognized. We also don't really hear that much about the players outside of the context of the team and the game. Stuff from their personal lives really only get reported on when it seems to have an impact on the team or their individual performance (with some exceptions, of course - but, it's not like the "media fishbowl" extends outside the rink very often).

And, honestly, outside of some of the top handful of guys in the league, I'm not sure I'd recognize too many hockey players (or other athletes) out in the real world, in general.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2018, 04:17:34 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 29, 2018, 03:55:08 PMI don't get this 'getting harassed in the streets' mentality. And whatever restaurants they go to I sure as hell cant afford.

Well, sure, but I don't think anyone was accusing you of harassing these guys. But they do go out into the world. And the most famous guys on the Leafs are pretty recognizable. Especially if, as is frequently mentioned, they're going to start doing a lot of commercial work to capitalize on the fame.

That said, I don't think it's really an issue of being harassed on the streets. To be honest I'm not really sure who said that was a thing.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 29, 2018, 06:39:14 PM
I've met a few Leaf players over the years and honestly, no one on the streets knew who they were.  And even if people did recognize them or thought they did, they didn't bother them for the most part.

Anonymity may be a factor for Tavares living here (re: in the Summers ) but truly, come to think of it, if he valued this anonymity stuff, he wouldn't even have bothered to meet with the Leafs brass.  It's apparently that Johnny T.'s priorities lie deeper than worrying about peace and quiet.

I don't believe he's crossed out the Leafs on his list just yet.  If he doesn't re-sign with the Islanders but with some other, then he will have had a host of other reasons for choosing to finish his career elsewhere.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: LuncheonMeat on June 29, 2018, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2018, 04:17:34 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 29, 2018, 03:55:08 PMI don't get this 'getting harassed in the streets' mentality. And whatever restaurants they go to I sure as hell cant afford.

Well, sure, but I don't think anyone was accusing you of harassing these guys. But they do go out into the world. And the most famous guys on the Leafs are pretty recognizable. Especially if, as is frequently mentioned, they're going to start doing a lot of commercial work to capitalize on the fame.

That said, I don't think it's really an issue of being harassed on the streets. To be honest I'm not really sure who said that was a thing.

When I lived in Portland (OR) my wife and I had dinner one night 2 tables over from Robert Redford. Not a single person approached the table in the couple of hours we were there. Unless you're in LA - where people call their PR people to let them know where they'll be, rather than attempt to be anonymous - I'm not sure celebrity mugging is much of a thing.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 29, 2018, 07:16:01 PM
A summary so far...

[tweet]1012450286449946625[/tweet]

QuoteTavares reportedly was impressed by the thorough pitches from all six teams: The Leafs, Islanders, Sharks, Bruins, Lightning and Stars. It's believed that, should Tavares walk away from the Isles, it's the Sharks and Leafs at Nos. 1 and 2 on his list; San Jose has the same quiet surroundings as Long Island to go with a bevy of veterans, a strong goaltender and a situation far away from the Islanders.

The Leafs have their young stars, a coach in Mike Babcock whom Tavares highly respects (of course, he has that now too with the Islanders in Barry Trotz) and the possibility of a one-year max offer of around $16 million for next season before a possible eight-year extension at a more modest number afterwards
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on June 30, 2018, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2018, 04:17:34 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 29, 2018, 03:55:08 PMI don't get this 'getting harassed in the streets' mentality. And whatever restaurants they go to I sure as hell cant afford.

Well, sure, but I don't think anyone was accusing you of harassing these guys. But they do go out into the world. And the most famous guys on the Leafs are pretty recognizable. Especially if, as is frequently mentioned, they're going to start doing a lot of commercial work to capitalize on the fame.

That said, I don't think it's really an issue of being harassed on the streets. To be honest I'm not really sure who said that was a thing.

I don't know if anyone here explicitly said it or it was implied in some of the comments. In reateospect I think I'm reacting more to what I'm hearing in the radio about the athletes want for privacy and that will be compromised in Toronto.

I learned through the last week that Tavares lives here in the off season - I had no clue. And it seems most had no idea. Unless a player decides to live in the heart of downtown and maintain a public persona on the streets, then I think you can disappear easily in this city.

Anyway - not just kind of throwing a bunch of thoughts out there. That's all.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on June 30, 2018, 11:21:43 AM
I'm getting nervous. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on June 30, 2018, 11:32:04 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 11:17:01 AM
I don't know if anyone here explicitly said it or it was implied in some of the comments. In reateospect I think I'm reacting more to what I'm hearing in the radio about the athletes want for privacy and that will be compromised in Toronto.

I learned through the last week that Tavares lives here in the off season - I had no clue. And it seems most had no idea. Unless a player decides to live in the heart of downtown and maintain a public persona on the streets, then I think you can disappear easily in this city.

Anyway - not just kind of throwing a bunch of thoughts out there. That's all.

No, I think you make a fair point that the sort of day to day on the street stuff isn't likely to be a big deal. Hockey player or no, the wealthy have done a pretty good job of insulating themselves from the rest of us. Like you say, you and I aren't likely to be going to the restaurants or bars that hockey players do and the people who are there are probably the types to get pretty bored pretty quickly with guys like that.

That said, I do know people who've worked at bars/restaurants like that and they do tell stories. I don't think I need to go into specifics to point out that many a Leafs' extra curricular activities have then become fodder for local gossip in a way that it might not in cities where they weren't such big deals.

I also think, for what it's worth, that we're sort of limited in our scope of discussing this because it's been a long, long time since the Leafs really had a super popular player and even then they've never had a real top of the league-type superstar probably in the last, oh, 80 years? How would a Crosby/McDavid like player be treated here? Especially if they won a cup? Would they be the most famous person in the city? What would it be like for them on social media? Or on their families' social media? These are questions we really don't know the answer to(although, as I mentioned re: Phaneuf, there are indications that it wouldn't be great).
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
A logical summation...

[tweet]1013134335921283072[/tweet]

Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 30, 2018, 04:20:24 PM
Tavares after that Portugal soccer game:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on June 30, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
A logical summation...

[tweet]1013134335921283072[/tweet]

Damn. Just come out and tell us already John. You're dragging this out too long. It's the Leafs right ? lol.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 30, 2018, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on June 30, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
A logical summation...

[tweet]1013134335921283072[/tweet]

Damn. Just come out and tell us already John. You're dragging this out too long. It's the Leafs right ? lol.
Yeah it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Just choose already.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 30, 2018, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on June 30, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
A logical summation...

[tweet]1013134335921283072[/tweet]

Damn. Just come out and tell us already John. You're dragging this out too long. It's the Leafs right ? lol.
Yeah it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Just choose already.

I will only respect his decision if he announces it on live television in front of some kids.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on June 30, 2018, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 04:58:11 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 30, 2018, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on June 30, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
A logical summation...

[tweet]1013134335921283072[/tweet]

Damn. Just come out and tell us already John. You're dragging this out too long. It's the Leafs right ? lol.
Yeah it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Just choose already.

I will only respect his decision if he announces it on live television in front of some kids.
And it's the Leafs
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: AvroArrow on June 30, 2018, 05:05:22 PM
Supposedly he has to sign by midnight tonight if he wants an 8 year deal with Isles.

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1012055916747862016
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on June 30, 2018, 05:09:31 PM
Maybe someone should call his mother. ;D
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 05:30:28 PM
Quote from: AvroArrow on June 30, 2018, 05:05:22 PM
Supposedly he has to sign by midnight tonight if he wants an 8 year deal with Isles.

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1012055916747862016

This is why a lot of people think that because it hasn't been announced yet, that it probably means that he isn't going to the Islanders.  Once he becomes a free agent, the max contract he can get is for 7 years. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 30, 2018, 05:34:05 PM
Not really sure how true that is when we don't know what teams are offering, how much off ice endorsement money is available, and what he tax implications and col'ing between teams is.  In other words they the quote is complete BS.
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
A logical summation...

[tweet]1013134335921283072[/tweet]
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on June 30, 2018, 06:09:23 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on June 29, 2018, 04:03:46 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 29, 2018, 03:55:08 PM
I've lived in Toronto my whole life and I've never run into a leaf player anywhere. Ever. I don't get this 'getting harassed in the streets' mentality. And whatever restaurants they go to I sure as hell cant afford.

Same. The only time I've ever run into a Leaf - or even a former Leaf - that wasn't at an event where they were publicized to be part of has been at the ACC. It's much easier for them to stay out of the spotlight than people like to play up. I mean, I like to think of myself as a pretty serious fan, but, truthfully, I wouldn't recognize most of the team out in the real world - and, even some of the more prominent players wouldn't be instantly recognizable to me. We don't really get much exposure to them out of uniform - or, even, just without their helmets on - and that makes it harder for them to be instantly recognized. We also don't really hear that much about the players outside of the context of the team and the game. Stuff from their personal lives really only get reported on when it seems to have an impact on the team or their individual performance (with some exceptions, of course - but, it's not like the "media fishbowl" extends outside the rink very often).

And, honestly, outside of some of the top handful of guys in the league, I'm not sure I'd recognize too many hockey players (or other athletes) out in the real world, in general.
I saw Babs once and said hi to him. Seemed cordial enough! I can see how it would get annoying though, but some people, like Babs, embrace it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on June 30, 2018, 06:12:02 PM
Quote from: Zee on June 30, 2018, 04:20:24 PM
Tavares after that Portugal soccer game:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Lol amazing
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Arn on June 30, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
Saw something on the Twitter suggesting the Leafs offered 1 year at $16m then a 7 year extension.

Sounds unlikely.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bates on June 30, 2018, 06:57:08 PM
Technically could not offer that extension until January.
Quote from: Arn on June 30, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
Saw something on the Twitter suggesting the Leafs offered 1 year at $16m then a 7 year extension.

Sounds unlikely.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Don't know how true this is, but it was news anyway...

[tweet]1012765622109794304[/tweet]
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Don't know how true this is, but it was news anyway...

[tweet]1012765622109794304[/tweet]

It's really not difficult to spot fake tweets... this guy has 10 followers. The tweet has 2 likes. It's also from yesterday.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: Arn on June 30, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
Saw something on the Twitter suggesting the Leafs offered 1 year at $16m then a 7 year extension.

Sounds unlikely.

I think technically they could offer him a 8 year deal at that point.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: L K on June 30, 2018, 08:36:32 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Don't know how true this is, but it was news anyway...

[tweet]1012765622109794304[/tweet]

It's really not difficult to spot fake tweets... this guy has 10 followers. The tweet has 2 likes. It's also from yesterday.

So what you are saying is it is true?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: L K on June 30, 2018, 08:36:32 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on June 30, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Don't know how true this is, but it was news anyway...

[tweet]1012765622109794304[/tweet]

It's really not difficult to spot fake tweets... this guy has 10 followers. The tweet has 2 likes. It's also from yesterday.

So what you are saying is it is true?

I really want to create a "JohnTavares'sRealEstateAgent" twitter account right now.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 09:04:32 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?

Exactly what you want to hear.  He's hearing that John Tavares will sign with an NHL team.  That team is probably the one that you cheer for.  Also he thinks he is being contacted by someone from beyond, and that persons name starts with a letter in the alphabet.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: L K on June 30, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?

I still subscribe to code.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: bustaheims on June 30, 2018, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: L K on June 30, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?

I still subscribe to code.

Confirmed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bullfrog on June 30, 2018, 09:20:57 PM
E4?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 09:24:21 PM
Quote from: L K on June 30, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?

I still subscribe to code.

Thanks for reminding me to check paypal.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2018, 09:27:53 PM
Quote from: L K on June 30, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?

I still subscribe to code.

Go Caps!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 30, 2018, 09:48:03 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2018, 09:27:53 PM
Quote from: L K on June 30, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?

I still subscribe to code.

Go Caps!

Ah, those were the days ... when the Internet was young and the heady wine of speculation flowed freely in the streets.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on June 30, 2018, 10:20:00 PM
Is it actually happening?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Kaberle15 on June 30, 2018, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: Arn on June 30, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
Saw something on the Twitter suggesting the Leafs offered 1 year at $16m then a 7 year extension.

Sounds unlikely.

I think technically they could offer him a 8 year deal at that point.

They can resign him for an 8 year on Jan 1st. (If he signs a 1 year deal at 16). Tecncally speaking they can overpay the 1st year and get a better 2nd deal.

Won't happen...

Anyway, 1h30 left for the Isles...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on June 30, 2018, 11:02:35 PM
Those were awesome throwbacks... code... confirmed ... e4. Good times.

Amonte signs with the leafs. Confirmed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
Quote from: Kaberle15 on June 30, 2018, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: Arn on June 30, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
Saw something on the Twitter suggesting the Leafs offered 1 year at $16m then a 7 year extension.

Sounds unlikely.

I think technically they could offer him a 8 year deal at that point.

They can resign him for an 8 year on Jan 1st. (If he signs a 1 year deal at 16). Tecncally speaking they can overpay the 1st year and get a better 2nd deal.

Won't happen...

Anyway, 1h30 left for the Isles...

So would that sort of approach clasify as out of the box thinking?  If so do you think that would impress Tavares?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 30, 2018, 11:59:37 PM
C'mon TSN, don't release an update at 11:55 that Paul George has committed to staying in Oklahoma.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 12:01:06 AM

So...does that mean the Islanders have turned back into a pumpkin?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:06:33 AM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2018, 12:01:06 AM

So...does that mean the Islanders have turned back into a pumpkin?

Nah, they'll announce in about an hour and half that he's on board for the 8.

Or not.

In any event, I'm going to bed, friends.  When I wake up tomorrow afternoon and login, I want to see a pic of Tavares holding his blue and white C-crested Leafs jersey, a smile of joy illuminating his face.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 01, 2018, 07:55:37 AM
Just ordered my Godot #91 jersey.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2018, 08:05:17 AM
Happy Canada Day! Anyone know what time the fireworks start? Hopefully we're in for a good show.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 08:52:01 AM
Happy Joffrey Lupul's freedom day!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bender on July 01, 2018, 09:10:04 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on June 30, 2018, 08:57:56 PM
What is eklund saying?
Tavares will definitely sign today and he might not. Give me all your money. P5 [emoji23]
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 09:49:58 AM
https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/1013418809443606534
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 11:00:46 AM
I find this lack of news...... disturbing.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 11:06:01 AM
Quote from: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 11:00:46 AM
I find this lack of news...... disturbing.

I actually think it would be brilliant if, say, around 5pm this afternoon his agent moseys onto Twitter to say "John wants more time to go through his binder.  We'll be back in touch in a couple of weeks or so."
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on July 01, 2018, 11:18:15 AM
Sportsnet has a nice clickbait article up right now.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 11:23:51 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:18:15 AM
Sportsnet has a nice bait click article up right now.

Chris Johnston doesn't strike me as the kind of reporter to say something like that based on absolutely nothing but I agree it seems pretty misleading to put that in the headline with nothing really behind it.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 11:29:10 AM
Dreger is saying whispers are it is the Leafs. Be pretty disappointing now that if that turns out to be wrong.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 11:36:25 AM
Quote from: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 11:29:10 AM
Dreger is saying whispers are it is the Leafs. Be pretty disappointing now that if that turns out to be wrong.

Did he say that on TV? Can't find a tweet
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:41:21 AM
Yes, it was said on TV.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 11:41:30 AM
Well, no matter what happens now the Leafs are closer than they ever were with Stamkos.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Bill_Berg_is_sad on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on July 01, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.

Bozak is available.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.

Bozak is available.

Gone to STL, 3x5M.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on July 01, 2018, 11:48:49 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.

Bozak is available.

Gone to STL, 3x5M.

Wow. Completely missed that. Well good for him. Good kid that Bozak.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 11:51:19 AM
Bozak at 3 x 5. JVR at 5 x 7.  Definitely couldn't afford those numbers.  But it would have been nice to have had a draft pick or two from them.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:48:49 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.

Bozak is available.

Gone to STL, 3x5M.

Wow. Completely missed that. Well good for him. Good kid that Bozak.

He'll be missed more than some would think.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/APetrielli/status/1013450048951193600

"I've been told at this point that Tavares will be signing with Toronto."
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.

Ryan (CGY) and Bozak (STL) were supposed to be their Plans B and C...

So, either the Leafs got him or screwed themselves waiting.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/APetrielli/status/1013450048951193600

"I've been told at this point that Tavares will be signing with Toronto."

MLHS guy?

I guess Jeffler broke the Babs story.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on July 01, 2018, 11:54:58 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:48:49 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 11:45:02 AM
Quote from: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
Running out of FA centers if they don't get Tavares. Hopefully plan B was not a FA center.

Bozak is available.

Gone to STL, 3x5M.

Wow. Completely missed that. Well good for him. Good kid that Bozak.

He'll be missed more than some would think.

He's a perfect fit on the third line, I agree he'll be missed. But 5 mil at the bottom of the lineup is not smart in a cap world.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 11:52:07 AM
He'll be missed more than some would think.

Eh. If we miss out on Tavares, maybe. If we don't, we'll literally forget he ever existed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Brownscombe on MLHS is saying it's Toronto.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Mack674 on July 01, 2018, 11:56:21 AM
Im sure the Leafs will get him. As soon as the FA train started I had the same feeling as with Babcock lol

Obviously fwiw, im not psychic but I really think hes coming to Toronto
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 11:58:01 AM
Quote from: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/APetrielli/status/1013450048951193600

"I've been told at this point that Tavares will be signing with Toronto."

MLHS guy?

I guess Jeffler broke the Babs story.

Who is this guy? I don't believe it. The leafs haven't been known to leak info in recent years.  I don't see why that would change.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 11:58:01 AM
Quote from: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/APetrielli/status/1013450048951193600

"I've been told at this point that Tavares will be signing with Toronto."

MLHS guy?

I guess Jeffler broke the Babs story.

Who is this guy? I don't believe it. The leafs haven't been known to leak info in recent years.  I don't see why that would change.

He broke the Dominic Moore signing last season
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:59:02 AM
Quote from: herman on July 01, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 11:58:01 AM
Quote from: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/APetrielli/status/1013450048951193600

"I've been told at this point that Tavares will be signing with Toronto."

MLHS guy?

I guess Jeffler broke the Babs story.

Who is this guy? I don't believe it. The leafs haven't been known to leak info in recent years.  I don't see why that would change.

He broke the Dominic Moore signing last season

And Hainsey, I think.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 11:58:01 AM
Who is this guy? I don't believe it. The leafs haven't been known to leak info in recent years.  I don't see why that would change.

yeah, he's either torched a relationship with someone in their analytics department (who I doubt would know anyway) or he's bluffing in the hopes of looking like the guy who broke it.

his weekly Leafs Notebook is a great read tho!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:00:26 PM
Regarding Tavares/MLHS.... let's wait for a legit source guys.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:01:16 PM
Dreger just said Leafs are most likely... but far from confirmed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 12:01:39 PM
Quote from: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 11:58:01 AM
Who is this guy? I don't believe it. The leafs haven't been known to leak info in recent years.  I don't see why that would change.

yeah, he's either torched a relationship with someone in their analytics department (who I doubt would know anyway) or he's bluffing in the hopes of looking like the guy who broke it.

his weekly Leafs Notebook is a great read tho!

It's certainly a solid bluff at this point and I do like reading those Leafs Notebooks!
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:00:26 PM
Regarding Tavares/MLHS.... let's wait for a legit source guys.

Hey, did you take down my thread on the main board?  J >:( :) :o 8)  You're no fun at all.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:00:26 PM
Regarding Tavares/MLHS.... let's wait for a legit source guys.

Hey, did you take down my thread on the main board?  J >:( :) :o 8)  You're no fun at all.

I don't want to give anyone a heart attack! Until Bob McKenzie says it it's not confirmed.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 12:04:09 PM
I would have really liked Stastny at 3 x 6.5 on the leafs.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:00:26 PM
Regarding Tavares/MLHS.... let's wait for a legit source guys.

Hey, did you take down my thread on the main board?  J >:( :) :o 8)  You're no fun at all.

I don't want to give anyone a heart attack! Until Bob McKenzie says it it's not confirmed.

I think NYI fans already have suffered a collective coronary.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 12:04:38 PM
You guys hear? We're signing some center.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 12:04:57 PM
... when they don't get Tavares.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:07:35 PM
It is fun to read Brownscombe's pre-cooked orgasm story.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2018, 12:08:30 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:01:16 PM
Dreger just said Leafs are most likely... but far from confirmed.
Man oh man if this happens our lines will be ridiculous. Come home JT.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on July 01, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
He'll be happy in San Jose.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:11:02 PM
Tampa is out for sure.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 12:13:53 PM
San Jose has not signed anyone ...
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: LuncheonMeat on July 01, 2018, 12:22:00 PM
Tavares to sign with the Leafs??? Say it ain't so!!!

I really just posted this to see my sig.  :P
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 12:22:19 PM
Everyone remember when the Connor McDavid lottery balls came up and the greatest chance left was for the Leafs?  This feels like that.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Mack674 on July 01, 2018, 12:23:53 PM
This feels more like the Babcock situation to me.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 12:25:53 PM
Quote from: LuncheonMeat on July 01, 2018, 12:22:00 PM
Tavares to sign with the Leafs??? Say it ain't so!!!

I really just posted this to see my sig.  :P

Which player of those 3 in your sig would you want the most to become a Leaf?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:26:13 PM
In the meantime, the ACC is now officially Scotiabank Arena.  Bleah.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Arn on July 01, 2018, 12:26:57 PM
Hope the signing of Josh Jooris doesn't scupper anything
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:28:58 PM
Quote from: Arn on July 01, 2018, 12:26:57 PM
Hope the signing of Josh Jooris doesn't scupper anything

He's $95M cheaper, so his $:value ratio is much higher than JT's.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 12:29:50 PM
I wonder how much of the delay is decision making and how much is ironing out the structure of the deal.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:31:40 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2018, 12:29:50 PM
I wonder how much of the delay is decision making and how much is ironing out the structure of the deal.

They're working on setting up direct deposit into Scotiabank.  These things take time.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 01, 2018, 12:32:06 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2018, 12:29:50 PM
I wonder how much of the delay is decision making and how much is ironing out the structure of the deal.

I like to imagine that the delay is just to hamstring Boston and Tampa's July 1 decision-making as much as possible.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
This sounds definitive ...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/01/john-tavares-signs-with-the-toronto-maple-leafs/
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:33:50 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
This sounds definitive ...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/01/john-tavares-signs-with-the-toronto-maple-leafs/

It's not.  I already made a thread about it and rightfully got slapped by the ever-vigilant CTB.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 12:34:13 PM
[tweet]1013437649053519872[/tweet]
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
This sounds definitive ...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/01/john-tavares-signs-with-the-toronto-maple-leafs/

If something that definitive doesn't get quickly followed up by the big newsbreakers I think it's pretty fair to say it's not true.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 01, 2018, 12:36:26 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
This sounds definitive ...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/01/john-tavares-signs-with-the-toronto-maple-leafs/

This also sounded definitive:

(https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/gettyimages-517387760.jpg)
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 12:39:19 PM
Dear TSN,

Stop updating me on the gosh darn soccer game. Spain could be invaded by Russia and I'd barely care.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:39:34 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2018, 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 12:32:15 PM
This sounds definitive ...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/01/john-tavares-signs-with-the-toronto-maple-leafs/

If something that definitive doesn't get quickly followed up by the big newsbreakers I think it's pretty fair to say it's not true.

Still 30 minutes old and nothing from anyone else. They certainly jumped the gun off whatever info they think they had. If they wanted to "break" this deal then they needed contract information along with it to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:40:43 PM
https://twitter.com/stapeathletic/status/1013461872077688838

So we really are doing this Bachelor style?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Nik on July 01, 2018, 12:42:18 PM

Also, Bob Mckenzie really doesn't need to be tweeting out guys signing entry level deals right now.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
No deal for Thornton yet either?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Joe on July 01, 2018, 12:47:01 PM
I like seeing nik somewhat excited.

On another note, here's a trip down memory lane to see how far we've come:

https://www.nhl.com/news/burke-says-hes-willing-to-trade-up-and-obtain-a-higher-draft-pick-for-leafs/c-418279

"I'm not confident every team has John Tavares as No. 1," said Burke.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 12:50:01 PM
Master negotiatior Lou Lamoriello
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 12:51:39 PM
Quote from: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:40:43 PM
So we really are doing this Bachelor style?

We knew this at midnight.

A lot of what's slowly coming out is just pointing toward what we already pretty confident of for days -- Toronto or SJS. So, just tell us that!

But could it be Boston.........?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:51:54 PM
JT strolling in halfway through the Scotiabank Arena press conference to sit down and sign the contract would be so baller.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:52:39 PM
Quote from: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:51:54 PM
JT strolling in halfway through the Scotiabank Arena press conference to sit down and sign the contract would be so baller.

While holding a giant cheque...

"Just got a deposit I gotta make folks."
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:58:32 PM
https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/1013465996156440580

Still not TSN or Sportsnet.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 12:59:00 PM
Who's David Pagnotta?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:59:27 PM
https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1013466977765953536

Who is Elliotte Friedman?
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: Zee on July 01, 2018, 12:59:00 PM
Who's David Pagnotta?

He owns that pizza place.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: herman on July 01, 2018, 12:59:27 PM
https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1013466977765953536

OK, now that's legit.
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: Rob on July 01, 2018, 01:00:27 PM
Good thing I beat the rush for Tavares sweaters. 
Title: Re: Tavares
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
Celebrations here: http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=5033.0