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2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread

Started by Nik, January 19, 2021, 06:54:54 PM

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Joe

Quote from: bustaheims on December 14, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
Quote from: Joe S. on December 09, 2021, 05:20:29 PM
Not to say thag this is true but I haven't even heard if he's interviewed for the job or that the Mets have even spoken to him. I think this is all based on a Morosi tweet that had no substance to it.

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/1468667917403234305?s=20

If he was being considered, he's not anymore:

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/status/1470776335140368390


Showalter is the manager the Mets deserve.


L K

Baseball writers are stupid.  60 of the vote is in and Ortiz is sitting at 83% to get into the hall of fame on his first ballot.  Either care about steroids or don't. 

Guilt Trip

Quote from: L K on January 11, 2022, 06:51:37 PM
Baseball writers are stupid.  60 of the vote is in and Ortiz is sitting at 83% to get into the hall of fame on his first ballot.  Either care about steroids or don't. 
But Ortiz is a nice guy..Bonds wasn't. The writers are a joke.

Nik


International signing day today and the Jays big get seems to be this kid Luis Meza from Venezuela. The Jays had one of the lowest bonus pools for today and it looks like they're trying to sign a few guys instead of going all in for one of the top guys.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

Nik

I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

L K

And it's official MLB doesn't tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz...............................

Guilt Trip

Quote from: L K on January 25, 2022, 08:49:33 PM
And it's official MLB doesn't tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz...............................
Haha, what a joke. As far as I remember Bonds never tested positive for steroids did he? Ortiz did. Greatest home run hitter ever, nope..One of the greatest pitchers ever, nope. The all time leading hitter, nope. Like I said it's a joke.

bustaheims

#578
Quote from: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: L K on January 25, 2022, 08:49:33 PM
And it's official MLB doesn't tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz...............................
Haha, what a joke. As far as I remember Bonds never tested positive for steroids did he? Ortiz did. Greatest home run hitter ever, nope..One of the greatest pitchers ever, nope. The all time leading hitter, nope. Like I said it's a joke.

There are questions around the validity of the series of tests that Ortiz tested positive on. At least 10 of the 104 positive results were deemed to be false positives, but who they were was never released.

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/reporter-who-broke-ped-stories-defends-david-ortiz

Bonds and Clemens not getting in is stupid. I get making them wait - they were basically the poster boys for PEDs, and there are enough corroborating witnesses that the lack of a positive test doesn't mean much (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all) - but that wait should have been 3-5 years, not 10+.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Guilt Trip

Quote from: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 09:07:46 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: L K on January 25, 2022, 08:49:33 PM
And it's official MLB doesn't tolerate steroid users.   Congratulations David Ortiz...............................
Haha, what a joke. As far as I remember Bonds never tested positive for steroids did he? Ortiz did. Greatest home run hitter ever, nope..One of the greatest pitchers ever, nope. The all time leading hitter, nope. Like I said it's a joke.

There are questions around the validity of the series of tests that Ortiz tested positive on. At least 10 of the 104 positive results were deemed to be false positives, but who they were was never released.

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/reporter-who-broke-ped-stories-defends-david-ortiz

Bonds and Clemens not getting in is stupid. I get making them wait - they were basically the poster boys for PEDs, and there are enough corroborating witnesses that the lack of a positive test doesn't mean much (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and all) - but that wait should have been 3-5 years, not 10+.
If Binds retired before the steroid era, he still would have had a hall of fame career. Now their 10 year window is up the chances they ever get in is even smaller...sad because they did nothing wrong. Steroids wasn't tested for and you and I know that MLB knew exactly what was going on. Funny how all the other guys that used uppers and whatever is deemed ok.

bustaheims

Just because MLB didn't care doesn't mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Peter D.

Bonds is one of the greatest talents of all time and he doesn't get in. Ridiculous.

Steroids or not -- same applies to A-Rod -- he's still an all-time great.

Guilt Trip

Quote from: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 09:23:16 PM
Just because MLB didn't care doesn't mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.
Steroids aren't illegal if scribed by a doctor. Either way, they didn't break any of baseball's rules. This isn't about putting them in jail, this is about the Baseball HOF.

Nik


I think the Bonds and Clemens cases are a little bit more complicated than the average accusations of PED use. Because if you're saying "Hey, they took steroids when it wasn't explicitly against the rules to gain a little edge, so what?" what you're really saying is that Bonds was almost certainly guilty of perjury in the BALCO case and Clemens was guilty of lying to Congress and both of those are pretty serious felonies. Toss in with Bonds accusations of domestic abuse and if keeping him out relies on the character clause then it's a little bit more than "he used steroids" which is the only thing that could even maybe be said about Ortiz.

I'm pretty agnostic on the larger issue. I'd have been fine if Bonds/Clemens got in, I'm fine that they're not in. I think Bonds, and specifically his chase of Aaron's record, did some real damage to Baseball and the inducted members wing of the HOF isn't the sum total of what the HOF is. In it's own way, keeping Clemens and Bonds out might even serve to augment their place in Baseball history in the same way that I feel like most people could tell you who Shoeless Joe Jackson was but would have no idea who Tris Speaker or Nap Lajoie were.
I wish to hell I'd never said "Winning isn't everything it's the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you've won.
- Vince Lombardi

bustaheims

Quote from: Guilt Trip on January 25, 2022, 10:09:03 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on January 25, 2022, 09:23:16 PM
Just because MLB didn't care doesn't mean they did nothing wrong. They broke US law when used illegal substances.
Steroids aren't illegal if scribed by a doctor. Either way, they didn't break any of baseball's rules. This isn't about putting them in jail, this is about the Baseball HOF.

Firstly, they absolutely broke MLB rules when they used PEDs. The league just didn't care to enforce those rules stringently.

Secondly, if you're going to hold Ortiz accountable for a questionable PED test result (we don't know if he was one of the false positives, what substance he tested positive for, etc. - there's more questions than answers around much of the 2003 testing and the results have been destroyed) then you also have to hold Clemens and Bonds responsible for their more concrete ties to PEDs.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan