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SCF: Vegas Golden Knights vs. Carolina Hurricanes

Even when it's not about the Leafs its about the Leafs because they generate revenue. Don't forget, consumption isn't just for Leafs fans. It's also for Leafs haters.
Agreed, and it creates a tough dynamic. For example, I live in Ottawa. I truly believe that being a fan of the Ottawa Senators means you hate the Leafs first, and love the Senators second. Every mistake the Leafs make gets glorified in the media here. It's a constant bombardment, that even if you don't pay attention to the local media spills out in to water cooler or locker room talk. Even last night, as I was getting out of my goalie gear for my pickup game, there was talk from some of the players that they really wanted to see Marner win so that it would stick it to the Leafs.

It's tough because when the team is poorly run it just adds fuel to the fire. I know that it won't ever change. I know that the comments about the Leafs and their fans are going to be negative, even if they were to win the cup, but when things are bad, it's like we don't even have a leg to stand on.

This is why I find days like the last trade deadline day, or when they lose to the Senators in glorious fashion so tough. It means the next day I am going to be taking some licks from people who just hate the Leafs and their fans. It's like somewhere along the line being a fan of a sport means that we all went to high school together so we can bug people like we have known them our whole life. Well we haven't and quite honestly, I don't like being told I am an idiot or arrogant, or whatever, just because I am a fan of a certain hockey team. I don't like it because that isn't how I treat fans of other teams.

And that has lead to a greater existential crisis, where as I approach 50 ( tomorrow in fact ), I have to question what it says about me as a person that I choose to root or cheer for a team that has been consistently run very poorly. If I am a Leaf fan, and I spend money and time on this team, willingly, knowing that they are probably going to do something very stupid. What does that say about Leaf fans? How do we defend that? It's like we are saying "Sure I would love to buy that expensive car that you have to sell that only has 1 wheel on it. Sign me up. Also, don't just sign me up. Sign me up year after year after year as you keep producing expensive cars that will never run right". That's what we are dealing with as Leaf fans. Over the last 60 years, this team has been run properly for about 10 years. We keep putting up with it. Getting mad at the team doesn't work. They don't care about your emotions or the boos or whatever, as long as you watch. And when a group of fans take it out on the players, the players just leave, which is their right to do.
 
Agreed, and it creates a tough dynamic. For example, I live in Ottawa. I truly believe that being a fan of the Ottawa Senators means you hate the Leafs first, and love the Senators second. Every mistake the Leafs make gets glorified in the media here. It's a constant bombardment, that even if you don't pay attention to the local media spills out in to water cooler or locker room talk. Even last night, as I was getting out of my goalie gear for my pickup game, there was talk from some of the players that they really wanted to see Marner win so that it would stick it to the Leafs.

It's tough because when the team is poorly run it just adds fuel to the fire. I know that it won't ever change. I know that the comments about the Leafs and their fans are going to be negative, even if they were to win the cup, but when things are bad, it's like we don't even have a leg to stand on.

This is why I find days like the last trade deadline day, or when they lose to the Senators in glorious fashion so tough. It means the next day I am going to be taking some licks from people who just hate the Leafs and their fans. It's like somewhere along the line being a fan of a sport means that we all went to high school together so we can bug people like we have known them our whole life. Well we haven't and quite honestly, I don't like being told I am an idiot or arrogant, or whatever, just because I am a fan of a certain hockey team. I don't like it because that isn't how I treat fans of other teams.

And that has lead to a greater existential crisis, where as I approach 50 ( tomorrow in fact ), I have to question what it says about me as a person that I choose to root or cheer for a team that has been consistently run very poorly. If I am a Leaf fan, and I spend money and time on this team, willingly, knowing that they are probably going to do something very stupid. What does that say about Leaf fans? How do we defend that? It's like we are saying "Sure I would love to buy that expensive car that you have to sell that only has 1 wheel on it. Sign me up. Also, don't just sign me up. Sign me up year after year after year as you keep producing expensive cars that will never run right". That's what we are dealing with as Leaf fans. Over the last 60 years, this team has been run properly for about 10 years. We keep putting up with it. Getting mad at the team doesn't work. They don't care about your emotions or the boos or whatever, as long as you watch. And when a group of fans take it out on the players, the players just leave, which is their right to do.
Mats, Darcy, Gary, Wendel, Dougie, Sittler et al won nothing and they are revered. The idea that Leafs fans chase players out of town is so provincial (as if we all have the same opinions all the time) when you look at some of the stuff Champions League (for example) players deal with. I do agree the franchise needs to treat its fans with some level of reverence and understanding that we aren't stupid.
 
They could have gone with:

McMann - Matthews - Domi
Pacioretty - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Laughton - Marner

McMann-Tavares-Marner was a good line
Knies-Matthews-Domi had a good stretch in the playoffs
Pacioretty-Laughton-Nylander could wind up as a 3rd by default though the notion of Nylander on a "checking" line is a contradiction

Pat Quinn with Cujo in his prime in goal could have run and gunned their way to a Conference final with this group.
 
Agreed, and it creates a tough dynamic. For example, I live in Ottawa. I truly believe that being a fan of the Ottawa Senators means you hate the Leafs first, and love the Senators second. Every mistake the Leafs make gets glorified in the media here. It's a constant bombardment, that even if you don't pay attention to the local media spills out in to water cooler or locker room talk. Even last night, as I was getting out of my goalie gear for my pickup game, there was talk from some of the players that they really wanted to see Marner win so that it would stick it to the Leafs.

It's tough because when the team is poorly run it just adds fuel to the fire. I know that it won't ever change. I know that the comments about the Leafs and their fans are going to be negative, even if they were to win the cup, but when things are bad, it's like we don't even have a leg to stand on.

This is why I find days like the last trade deadline day, or when they lose to the Senators in glorious fashion so tough. It means the next day I am going to be taking some licks from people who just hate the Leafs and their fans. It's like somewhere along the line being a fan of a sport means that we all went to high school together so we can bug people like we have known them our whole life. Well we haven't and quite honestly, I don't like being told I am an idiot or arrogant, or whatever, just because I am a fan of a certain hockey team. I don't like it because that isn't how I treat fans of other teams.

And that has lead to a greater existential crisis, where as I approach 50 ( tomorrow in fact ), I have to question what it says about me as a person that I choose to root or cheer for a team that has been consistently run very poorly. If I am a Leaf fan, and I spend money and time on this team, willingly, knowing that they are probably going to do something very stupid. What does that say about Leaf fans? How do we defend that? It's like we are saying "Sure I would love to buy that expensive car that you have to sell that only has 1 wheel on it. Sign me up. Also, don't just sign me up. Sign me up year after year after year as you keep producing expensive cars that will never run right". That's what we are dealing with as Leaf fans. Over the last 60 years, this team has been run properly for about 10 years. We keep putting up with it. Getting mad at the team doesn't work. They don't care about your emotions or the boos or whatever, as long as you watch. And when a group of fans take it out on the players, the players just leave, which is their right to do.
Happy 50th! Good on you for still playing in goal! One kick save and I would be using crutches for a month, and I am younger than you.
 
McMann-Tavares-Marner was a good line
Knies-Matthews-Domi had a good stretch in the playoffs
Pacioretty-Laughton-Nylander could wind up as a 3rd by default though the notion of Nylander on a "checking" line is a contradiction

Pat Quinn with Cujo in his prime in goal could have run and gunned their way to a Conference final with this group.
I wanted to see Marner on a shutdown line that could score. Anyone can score with him on the line, see Howden.
 
Happy 50th! Good on you for still playing in goal! One kick save and I would be using crutches for a month, and I am younger than you.
Thanks!!! I stopped playing for about 13 years. It's taken me a while to get back to a point where I feel comfortable dropping into a butterfly. Still do some things unconventionally. Overall though I really enjoy it.
 
McMann-Tavares-Marner was a good line
Knies-Matthews-Domi had a good stretch in the playoffs
Pacioretty-Laughton-Nylander could wind up as a 3rd by default though the notion of Nylander on a "checking" line is a contradiction

Pat Quinn with Cujo in his prime in goal could have run and gunned their way to a Conference final with this group.
The Leafs essentially told 8 forwards to get out of the way for 9 straight years.
 
The Leafs essentially told 8 forwards to get out of the way for 9 straight years.
I mean 6-7 of those 8 forwards sucked most of those years. I'm sorry that we didn't respect the performances of Alexander Kerfoots and Calle Jarnkrok more. Their 0-1 goals in 10 games were truly under appreciated.

I do think the Leafs screwed up by not splitting guys up more. I will counter though that I think the Leafs also didn't do a good job of finding better assets to complement those players to allow that.
 
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Mats, Darcy, Gary, Wendel, Dougie, Sittler et al won nothing and they are revered. The idea that Leafs fans chase players out of town is so provincial (as if we all have the same opinions all the time) when you look at some of the stuff Champions League (for example) players deal with. I do agree the franchise needs to treat its fans with some level of reverence and understanding that we aren't stupid.
Perhaps the idea of fans chasing players out of town does get overblown. I never saw any pictures of garbage actually on Marner's lawn, so that might of been damage control from his team. He probably got tired of the losing, and feeling like it was entirely his fault, and needed a change to get away from it. All the narratives probably grew from there, and nobody put a stop to it.

The fans do get their sights set on scapegoats from time to time. Jake Gardiner took a lot of criticism. Near the end Bryan McCabe did as well. The Larry Murphy experiment was really short lived. I notice how all of these are d-men.
 
I mean 6-7 of those 8 forwards sucked most of those years. I'm sorry that we didn't respect the performances of Alexander Kerfoots and Calle Jarnkrok more. Their 0-1 goals in 10 games were truly under appreciated.

I do think the Leafs screwed up by not splitting guys up more. I will counter though that I think the Leafs also didn't do a good job of finding better assets to complement those players to allow that.
You put people in a position to succeed, and you put your stars in a position to make those around them better.

Yes, a better supporting cast would help. I blame management and the core 4 (paying too much and asking too much). No $'s for anything else.
 
Perhaps the idea of fans chasing players out of town does get overblown. I never saw any pictures of garbage actually on Marner's lawn, so that might of been damage control from his team. He probably got tired of the losing, and feeling like it was entirely his fault, and needed a change to get away from it. All the narratives probably grew from there, and nobody put a stop to it.

The fans do get their sights set on scapegoats from time to time. Jake Gardiner took a lot of criticism. Near the end Bryan McCabe did as well. The Larry Murphy experiment was really short lived. I notice how all of these are d-men.

It's also the dumbest argument ever. How did trash being dumped on your yard the following day change the way you perform the previous day? It's all dumb.
 
And it's 2-0. They need a shakeup.
They do. Right now.
If Carolina loses this game, chances of winning the series drops to about 15% (... not sure if it would be that high against Vegas ..). They'll have to beat Vegas 4 of the next 5.

Carolina needs a goal and soon. They're not going to come that easily against Vegas defense.

Messier & Subban are right. They have to shoot from everywhere quickly. Try to get a bounce and mess up Vegas' D coverage
 
He was quite complimentary about how playing with Mitch Marner has helped him.
Marner has assisted on close to half his goals.
He had 12 during the regular season.

*Edit: Didn't realise he wasn't playing with him then. Marner gave him a good pass on the first one but that was just power forward magic shaking off a check and going top shelf. Then his second was all Howden. It's not just Marner, at least not from what I saw tonight.
 
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