Capitals vs. Leafs - Nov. 28th, 5:00pm - TSN4

[ZBBM]

I hate to criticize 88 on here because herman is such a valuable member. But he is hard to really root for IMO because of his attitude. OTOH what he does do well, he does very well, and it's hard to find. And as I was typing Andy said that part better.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I would have traded him and maybe Dubas would have before he was fired. They are mitigating his weak spots. That's why he plays with Tavares or Matthews because they know where their end is and put in an effort to get back.
Again, it doesn't excuse him for being LAZY. That's the issue. Answer this. Who does 88 try harder then on the back check or in the D zone?

I'm not arguing that Nylander is not lazy. I'm saying that expecting Nylander to be other than what he is, is the same as yelling at Robertson why doesn't he score 40 goals a year.

 

[herman]

I don’t mind the criticism of Nylander. It’s warranted when it’s warranted. He asks his coaches to hold him accountable, so when they do, he responds. Of all the stars in this era, he’s the one that has continued to steadily improve offensively and defensively YoY.

I get that people want him to have more of a defensive conscience (because that would make him in the upper echelon of elite), but the game is a balancing act of figuring out when to take risks and push through for offense, and when to sag back to absorb incoming attacks. Defense is moralized by the media (and coaches) because it’s all that most players and coaches can actually control.

Outside of the first overall picks on the team, it takes about 3-5 players to put up 40. Goals are what teams pay for because of the salary cap and he has more than made good on his cap hits. His skillset makes a teammates’ defensive effort count (make a block to spring b-way Billy, baby). He is linemate agnostic (they played him with Kampf and Holmberg and Engvall and he made it work more than anyone had right to expect without complaint), feeds tap ins as often as he finishes plays himself, and has played wherever and whenever coach wanted him to. They took him off PP1, made him PK for a bit, and no one threatened the team through the media about it.

Last I checked, the game is about scoring more than the other team, not trying to make sure nothing happens.

By the by, Mogilny was one of my favourite Leafs lol. I have a type.

 

[cw]

Nylander is what he is. Does he need a reminder every now and again that hockey south of the red line exists? Yes.

Publicly shaming him every other game is not the way to do it.

At the outset, no. But Berube didn't do that at the outset.

A coach tries a number of things as Berube did to motivate a player, Nylander in this case, to change his ways. As the player continues to not do as his coach asks, the coach tries other things. So the coach ramps up. Eventually, the coach gets to where they are now.
It is not all about Nylander. It is about the team.
How can the team operate well with two different standards: one set of standards for most of the forwards who have to block shots, hit, backcheck, etc and another for an enigma who floats and can blow off all the bruising effort. All members of the team should be grabbing an oar in both ends of the ice. Matthews does. Tavares does. Why not Nylander?

 

[Guilt Trip]

At the outset, no. But Berube didn't do that at the outset.

A coach tries a number of things as Berube did to motivate a player, Nylander in this case, to change his ways. As the player continues to not do as his coach asks, the coach tries other things. So the coach ramps up. Eventually, the coach gets to where they are now.
It is not all about Nylander. It is about the team.
How can the team operate well with two different standards: one set of standards for most of the forwards who have to block shots, hit, backcheck, etc and another for an enigma who floats and can blow off all the bruising effort. All members of the team should be grabbing an oar in both ends of the ice. Matthews does. Tavares does. Why not Nylander?

Exactly this. Nobody is asking for Selke Nylander or to even hit or block shots. Leafs just need a player that puts in the same effort as everyone else.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not arguing that Nylander is not lazy. I'm saying that expecting Nylander to be other than what he is, is the same as yelling at Robertson why doesn't he score 40 goals a year.

It's not remotely the same. You're comparing goal scoring to PUTTING IN AN EFFORT.
I don't get why this is so hard for some to understand. Asking Nylander for more effort away from the puck is not a huge ask. Do you honestly think it's unfair for Berube to ask him to put in that effort?
Again, who does 88 try harder then on the back check or in the D zone?

 

[cw]

I don’t mind the criticism of Nylander. It’s warranted when it’s warranted. He asks his coaches to hold him accountable, so when they do, he responds. Of all the stars in this era, he’s the one that has continued to steadily improve offensively and defensively YoY.

I get that people want him to have more of a defensive conscience (because that would make him in the upper echelon of elite), but the game is a balancing act of figuring out when to take risks and push through for offense, and when to sag back to absorb incoming attacks. Defense is moralized by the media (and coaches) because it’s all that most players and coaches can actually control.

Outside of the first overall picks on the team, it takes about 3-5 players to put up 40. Goals are what teams pay for because of the salary cap and he has more than made good on his cap hits. His skillset makes a teammates’ defensive effort count (make a block to spring b-way Billy, baby). He is linemate agnostic (they played him with Kampf and Holmberg and Engvall and he made it work more than anyone had right to expect without complaint), feeds tap ins as often as he finishes plays himself, and has played wherever and whenever coach wanted him to. They took him off PP1, made him PK for a bit, and no one threatened the team through the media about it.

Last I checked, the game is about scoring more than the other team, not trying to make sure nothing happens.

By the by, Mogilny was one of my favourite Leafs lol. I have a type.

Mogilny was a more complete player.
He didn't start out that way.
But he listened to his coaches and even got some Selke votes.
In the Leafs playoffs, he, with his bad back, and Sundin came out hitting everything in sight to inspire their mates to play physically.
Mogilny was a much better player than Nylander because he made the effort in both ends of the ice.