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TML fan said:Can't let Cecil face a right handed batter but thinks it's totally ok to let his closer sit on the bench getting cold for 20 minutes.
Nik the Trik said:TML fan said:Can't let Cecil face a right handed batter but thinks it's totally ok to let his closer sit on the bench getting cold for 20 minutes.
Do you actually have any evidence that a closer is less effective in that situation or is this just more of your king of hindsight act?
TML fan said:But to answer your question, go read my post from the Yankees series. I believe it's a psychological thing. These pitchers have roles and they are fine tuned for those roles. When you take them outside those roles, I believe it has a psychological impact on them that makes them less effective. I don't think Osuna, for example, had the same adrenaline he would have coming in hot from the bullpen as opposed to sitting on the bench with a towel on his arm. People who are not used to doing things are going to struggle trying to do them. I don't think this is something that can be quantified statistically. Human element.
Nik the Trik said:TML fan said:But to answer your question, go read my post from the Yankees series. I believe it's a psychological thing. These pitchers have roles and they are fine tuned for those roles. When you take them outside those roles, I believe it has a psychological impact on them that makes them less effective. I don't think Osuna, for example, had the same adrenaline he would have coming in hot from the bullpen as opposed to sitting on the bench with a towel on his arm. People who are not used to doing things are going to struggle trying to do them. I don't think this is something that can be quantified statistically. Human element.
If what you say is true then there'd be a notable drop off in performance when pitchers are used the way Osuna was used tonight.
So, in other words, no there is no evidence. The Jays lose, you're here to complain that they always do whatever it is that caused them to lose and I set my watch to it.
TML fan said:Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?
Nik the Trik said:Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.
Nik the Trik said:Andrew Miller has been used that way five times this year. The number of runs he's given up in those five appearances? Zero.
Nik the Trik said:TML fan said:Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?
"I think the universe and everyone in it is controlled by a super intelligent Cat!"
"Do you have any proof of that?"
"DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF IT ISN'T?!?!?!?!?"
You're not even trying.
Nik the Trik said:TML fan said:Can you account for every pitcher used in that way? Every team?
"I think the universe and everyone in it is controlled by a super intelligent Cat!"
"Do you have any proof of that?"
"DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF IT ISN'T?!?!?!?!?"
You're not even trying.
TML fan said:Nik the Trik said:Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.
Mmmhmmm....so it's works once and that's proof, but the 3 times it didn't work in the same timespan is...what?
L K said:TML fan said:Nik the Trik said:Just last week for instance, Osuna came on with one out in the 8th, walked the first hitter and then got the next two. Then he "got cold" and pitched a perfect 9th.
Mmmhmmm....so it's works once and that's proof, but the 3 times it didn't work in the same timespan is...what?
Three isolated data points that don't prove a trend or establish any validity other than to say that bringing in a reliever over multiple innings doesn't work 100% of the time. It's really not a difficult concept.