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NHL Awards Discussion

CarltonTheBear

CarltonTheBear

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https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1399744012303601664

Vezina nominations are the first ones up. These guys finished 1-2-3 in wins this season. Kinda wanna say the GMs took the easy route here but it's probably the right call this time.
 
If Fleury wins it it will make his HOF case interesting in a way where previously, it really wasn't.
 
Nik said:
If Fleury wins it it will make his HOF case interesting in a way where previously, it really wasn't.
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I think he's going to the HOF. He's 3rd all time in wins and will be over 500 next season. 6th in playoff wins right now but could be in 3rd by the end of the playoffs if Vegas does well. This award will be a feather in the cap.
 
Nik said:
If Fleury wins it it will make his HOF case interesting in a way where previously, it really wasn't.
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It would probably be enough to put him over the top in the ballot. His numbers are already good enough, he just doesn't have the accolades.
 
bustaheims said:
It would probably be enough to put him over the top in the ballot. His numbers are already good enough, he just doesn't have the accolades.
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For what it's worth, when I talk about his case being interesting I'm not really talking about whether or not he gets in. The HOF makes stupid decisions on stupid rationales and things like goalie wins are stupid.

But a late career push where he's maybe one of the more consistent goalies in the game would be an interesting end to a career where nobody could say with any sort of straight face that with an extended period of time he was considered a consensus top 5 goalie in the league. If that alone would fit someone's definition of a HOFer, god bless them, but to me his pre-Vegas career wouldn't make him particularly close.
 
Nik said:
For what it's worth, when I talk about his case being interesting I'm not really talking about whether or not he gets in. The HOF makes stupid decisions on stupid rationales and things like goalie wins are stupid.

But a late career push where he's maybe one of the more consistent goalies in the game would be an interesting end to a career where nobody could say with any sort of straight face that with an extended period of time he was considered a consensus top 5 goalie in the league. If that alone would fit someone's definition of a HOFer, god bless them, but to me his pre-Vegas career wouldn't make him particularly close.
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Fair. As you said, the HHoF makes stupid decisions, and, sometimes, if feels like their decisions with goalies can be especially baffling. But, 3 Cups (and 2 other appearances in the Finals) and now close to 500 wins, a Jennings, and potentially a Vezina? By the Hall's standards, he's in.
 
I mean, maybe people forget this but there was a good 4 or 5 years where the Penguins had two of the most dynamic players in the history of the league and a pretty good supporting cast and they couldn't get anywhere in large part because Fleury was just awful in the playoffs. I would be shocked if you could find another HOF goalie with a similar sort of run.
 
Nik said:
I mean, maybe people forget this but there was a good 4 or 5 years where the Penguins had two of the most dynamic players in the history of the league and a pretty good supporting cast and they couldn't get anywhere in large part because Fleury was just awful in the playoffs. I would be shocked if you could find another HOF goalie with a similar sort of run.
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That's very true. He had some terrible runs....worse then Freddie.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1399744012303601664

Vezina nominations are the first ones up. These guys finished 1-2-3 in wins this season. Kinda wanna say the GMs took the easy route here but it's probably the right call this time.
Click to expand...
So Grubauer is up us a UFA in one year, Landeskog too, and same time as Maker gets off his entry level deal. Colorado had oodles of cap space not too long ago but it's getting really tight for them really soon, if not already.
 
Heroic Shrimp said:
So Grubauer is up us a UFA in one year, Landeskog too, and same time as Maker gets off his entry level deal. Colorado had oodles of cap space not too long ago but it's getting really tight for them really soon, if not already.
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If, by one year, you mean this summer, yeah. The cap reckoning is upon them.
 
bustaheims said:
Heroic Shrimp said:
So Grubauer is up us a UFA in one year, Landeskog too, and same time as Maker gets off his entry level deal. Colorado had oodles of cap space not too long ago but it's getting really tight for them really soon, if not already.
Click to expand...

If, by one year, you mean this summer, yeah. The cap reckoning is upon them.
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Oh, yeah, whoops!
 
bustaheims said:
Heroic Shrimp said:
So Grubauer is up us a UFA in one year, Landeskog too, and same time as Maker gets off his entry level deal. Colorado had oodles of cap space not too long ago but it's getting really tight for them really soon, if not already.
Click to expand...

If, by one year, you mean this summer, yeah. The cap reckoning is upon them.
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They have a literal crap-ton of cap space though. I didn't think too hard about these numbers but if Makar got $9mil and Landeskog and Grubauer each got $6mil they could squeeze a 20-man roster under the cap. Would lose some other UFA guys like Saad but hardly a key piece there.

And that's not including any cap relief moves they might make (Erik Johnson's $6mil sticks out like a sore thumb) or Seattle likely taking one of their $2-4mil players.

edit: probably should have thought a little bit harder on Landeskog, he'll get more than $6mil. Still doable I think for them with a move or two.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
bustaheims said:
Heroic Shrimp said:
So Grubauer is up us a UFA in one year, Landeskog too, and same time as Maker gets off his entry level deal. Colorado had oodles of cap space not too long ago but it's getting really tight for them really soon, if not already.
Click to expand...

If, by one year, you mean this summer, yeah. The cap reckoning is upon them.
Click to expand...

They have a literal crap-ton of cap space though. I didn't think too hard about these numbers but if Makar got $9mil and Landeskog and Grubauer each got $6mil they could squeeze a 20-man roster under the cap. Would lose some other UFA guys like Saad but hardly a key piece there.

And that's not including any cap relief moves they might make (Erik Johnson's $6mil sticks out like a sore thumb) or Seattle likely taking one of their $2-4mil players.

edit: probably should have thought a little bit harder on Landeskog, he'll get more than $6mil. Still doable I think for them with a move or two.
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They will definitely have to move something out to fit them.

If Erik Johnson comes off LTIR they will have 23.28M under contract with 6-D, 10-F, and 0-G

I think the 6M for Grubauer is reasonable.  I think Landeskog should get more than 6 (7?) and Makar will be an interesting one on whether they pay him term for 9M or not.  That would leave them with about 1.5M to add another forward and a goalie.  They will probably get some cap relief as you said from the expansion draft.

Erik Johnson has a NMC so unless he waives it that's a forced player on their list.  I would assume they would also want to protect Girard, Toews and Makar.  That would let them protect Rantanen, MacKinnon, Burkakovsky

Mikko Rantanen, Nathan MacKinnon, Andr? Burakovsky, Tyson Jost, Cale Makar, Erik Johnson, Samuel Girard, Devon Toews.  You then have to protect one guy between Jost/Donskoi/Kadri/Graves. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to convince Johnson to waive his NMC clause though...or claim he has a career threatening injury with his concussion to make him exempt letting them protect two of those guys. 

But they could potentially free up 2.5-4.5 million in cap space there which would leave them with enough space for bargain shopping to finish out the bottom of the roster.
 
I think the important point there though is that something that needs to be stressed is that even signing some really team-friendly contracts really only delays the cap pain by a year or two at most if you've built a contender. Everyone will have to make tough choices and cut corners somewhere. Everyone will have some depth issues. Obviously you want to minimize that as much as you can but probably at best you're talking about "minimizing" it and being able to spend on one or two depth positions more.
 
It's a stupid argument but for what it's worth I do think the selke is by far the biggest award where I have no idea if the voting reflects reality. I don't think any hockey writer knows enough about hockey to judge defensive ability from the few games they'll see of teams they don't cover and the fact that we almost never see even a nominee who isn't a star offensive player these days is a pretty good sign that it's 90% reputation based.
 
Vezina: goalie sort by wins, tie breakers to the name you recognize who feels due

Selke: centres sort by +/-, goals, tie breaker to SH TOI/goals

Norris: defensemen sort by goals, tie breaker to the name you recognize who feels due

No thoughts necessary in hockey
 
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