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John Tavares: HOF?

ZBBM

ZBBM

Well-known member
The stat they showed tonight — that Tavares just became only the second player ever, after Messier, to score 250+ goals with two teams — was impressive. OTOH, it makes sense that there are so few; not many elite scorers switch teams mid-career. Another thing that weighs against him for the HOF is his team's lack of playoff success. But — OTOH again — I think that shouldn't count for quite as much as it once did, now that we have a 32-team league.

I think he's got a pretty good case but I could also see people saying it's not the Hall of the Very Very Good.

Any thoughts?
 
He's a HOFamer.
~5th in OHL scoring history
~1st in Goals with 215 in 247 games.
~2 Gold Medals, U20 World Juniors
~1 Olympic Gold Medal
~1 World Championship Gold.
If he plays for the next 3 years he probably reaches 600 goals, 1350pts...inside top 30 all time. He's not far off the top50 right now. Pretty impressive career.
 
Guilt Trip said:
He's a HOFamer.
~5th in OHL scoring history
~1st in Goals with 215 in 247 games.
~2 Gold Medals, U20 World Juniors
~1 Olympic Gold Medal
~1 World Championship Gold.
If he plays for the next 3 years he probably reaches 600 goals, 1350pts...inside top 30 all time. He's not far off the top50 right now. Pretty impressive career.
Click to expand...

And a Stanley Cup when the Leafs win it next year!!!

I would absolutely include Tavares in the HHOF.
 
No end of season awards. No particularly large season totals (career high is 88 points). Below point/game for his career. Hall of Very Good, I’d say, especially considering his contemporaries.
 
bustaheims said:
No end of season awards. No particularly large season totals (career high is 88 points). Below point/game for his career. Hall of Very Good, I’d say, especially considering his contemporaries.
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It just seems like his raw totals will be there if he can have another couple of good production years. He's got a good shot at 600G and 1300 points by the time his contract is up.

I agree that he's probably a Hall of Very Good player but the HHOF elects those guys all the time
 
L K said:
It just seems like his raw totals will be there if he can have another couple of good production years. He's got a good shot at 600G and 1300 points by the time his contract is up.

I agree that he's probably a Hall of Very Good player but the HHOF elects those guys all the time
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He's 14 goals behind Keith Tkachuk. The rest ahead of him are either in or are very likely to get in.

With 32 teams, end of season awards, like Stanley Cups, are going to be much tougher to collect

I think he'll get in fairly easily.
 
bustaheims said:
No end of season awards. No particularly large season totals (career high is 88 points). Below point/game for his career. Hall of Very Good, I’d say, especially considering his contemporaries.
Click to expand...
I do think there's something to be said about durability. His contemporaries are Sid and Ovie which is a bit unfair. He's basically Sundin all over again.
 
L K said:
I think Sundin is one of the guys who gets a bump from era adjusted scoring. He bumps up closer to top 20 in all time scoring.
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On hockey reference, Sundin is 23rd in adjusted points scoring.
www.hockey-reference.com

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Points | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Wayne Gretzky (2475), 2. Gordie Howe (2190), 3. Jaromír Jágr (2080), 4. Sidney Crosby (1909), 5. Alex Ovechkin (1838), 6. Mark Messier (1732), 7. Ron Francis (1711), 8. Joe Thornton (1692), 9. Joe Sakic (1679), 10. Steve Yzerman (1650)
www.hockey-reference.com www.hockey-reference.com
Tavares 36th and moving up. He is probably likely to finish in the top 20

Sundin is 23rd in adjusted goal scoring.
www.hockey-reference.com

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (1030), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Sidney Crosby (718), 8. Jarome Iginla (706), 9. Steven Stamkos (696), 10. Brendan Shanahan (672)
www.hockey-reference.com www.hockey-reference.com
Tavares is 26th and is very likely to finish in the top 20 (only 21 goals away)
 
I really respect Tavares, and I'm happy he's a leafs player. In terms of attitude, maybe he's the closest we've seen to what Sundin gave the leafs.

However, they are not close to similar at all in terms of play. First of all the talent that Tavares got to play with compared to Sundin is night and day. Sundin almost every year led the team in scoring by double digits. He had no 100 point or 30-50 goal scorers with him.

But forget that. How many times did we see Sundin put the team on his back and just make shit happen - I'd say alot. I have barely any memories of Tavares doing that, if ever.

Remember when they'd pull the goalie when trailing, Sundin would absolutely be in there making something out of nothing. Even if they didn't score, it felt like something might happen. I almost never feel this way with this group of players.

Anyway, I'm not hiding the fact that Sundin is my all time favourite leafs player, and I'll bend over backwards to defend him. That being said, Tavares is no Sundin.
 
He’s definitely no Sundin, but I think that’s just cos he’s “quiet”. And by quiet I mean he just professionally does his job. He’s very methodical and that is what has worked for him.

He isn’t a very outwardly emotional guy in that he doesn’t seem to get massively excited about scoring. Equally he doesn’t seem to get too low in scoring droughts. He just keeps chugging away. So he’s really really good. But he kind of doesn’t draw your attention to himself then suddenly he has 35-40 goals and 85 points.

Sundin had times where he did have moments of showing real raw emotion and I think that differentiates them.

Tavares is definitely a HOF level player.
 
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