Author Topic: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM  (Read 8556 times)

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Offline TML fan

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2012, 10:19:30 PM »
Couldn't Dudley just quit, and then sign on with Montreal? I'm not sure how that works in this case.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 10:23:31 PM by TML fan »

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2012, 10:19:30 PM »

Online Guru Tugginmypuddah

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2012, 10:43:15 PM »
Couldn't Dudley just quit, and then sign on with Montreal? I'm not sure how that works in this case.

No, he still has a contract with Toronto.  He can't just quit and get another job tomorrow, this isn't Tim Horton's Vs. McDonald's.

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 01:25:36 AM »
Couldn't Dudley just quit, and then sign on with Montreal? I'm not sure how that works in this case.

That's sort of what his out-clause is, though, being that none of us know the specifics of it, it's hard to say for certain. Based on my understanding of things, he can give notice and, after a 30 day period, he's free to sign on wherever. Now, being that Dudley wants to continue to work in the NHL and is an honourable person, he's not going to just leave the Leafs in the lurch and bolt to a rival organization at such a sensitive time in the year, which is why we are where we are with all of this.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 01:27:12 AM by bustaheims »
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Offline Etiam Vultus

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2012, 02:10:28 PM »

Yes, as an organization, you should want to hire people who have the capability and the drive to advance. But that doesn't mean you should serve as a training ground for other organizations.

There are two issues here.

Organization charts are a triangle - the higher you go in the organization, the less space there is.  Thus, if you fill as many places on your organization chart as you can with people with the potential to move up, some of them are going to have to leave the organization to reach their full potential.  Dallas Eakins is a case in point.  When Ron Wilson was fired, Burke chose to hire Randy Carlyle.  Dallas Eakins was an option, but at the time he had zero experience in the playoffs as a head coach.  Thus, Burke went with the candidate with a Stanley Cup ring as a head coach.  In an interview, though, Burke said that he believed Dallas Eakins would be an excellent NHL head coach some day, but he may have to leave the Leafs to have that opportunity.  Similarly, Burke has said that he believes that Nonis, Polin Loiselle, and Dudley all have potential for more senior positions and he expects that some of them will leave for a better position.

With Dudley, it is hard to argue that the Leafs developed him.  He has been a GM for four NHL teams already!  He became unexpectedly unemployed when the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg and the new owners wanted a different front office.  He joined the Leafs just prior to the 2011 draft.  (Did anyone on this site suggest that this was unfair to Winnipeg?)  At the time, it was pretty clear that Dudley was underemployed in the position that he was taking with the Leafs, but it was a good short term solution for him to stay active and for the Leafs to benefit from his expertise.  None of us know the details of his current contract or the nature of his proposed position with the Habs, but it seems logical that he would have an out clause and it appears that he would be second-in-command in Montreal, when he is clearly not that with the Leafs.

I wish Dudley well in Montreal, finishing just behind the Leafs every year.  I think that there is enough professionalism in both organizations that Dudley will make the transfer on good terms.

Offline Tigger

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2012, 02:25:40 PM »
It also seems logical that the Leafs would be able to protect themselves from getting burned at the draft at the last minute by an employee, who was directly tied to that process, jumping ship.

How would it be unfair to Winnipeg, they let him go.
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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2012, 03:18:36 PM »
He became unexpectedly unemployed when the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg and the new owners wanted a different front office.  He joined the Leafs just prior to the 2011 draft.  (Did anyone on this site suggest that this was unfair to Winnipeg?) 

There are a few significant differences between that situation and the situation at hand. Firstly, Dudley joined the Leafs at the draft - too late to really contribute to the scouting staffs' ranking process. The Leafs' list was already well established at that point, and, as he had previously been GM in Atlanta, he wouldn't have been that deeply involved in the scouting process (GMs tend to be heavily involved in 1st round guys and not so involved in the rest). With the Leafs, he's been heavily involved in the scouting process leading up to this draft. Secondly, Winnipeg's pick was before Toronto's in every round, so, even if Dudley had knowledge of Winnipeg's plans, passing them on to Toronto wouldn't have had an impact on the newly christened Jets. On top of that, I'm almost certain the Leafs and Jets came to an agreement that Dudley wouldn't influence the Leafs picks in that draft as part of Dudley's hiring process. Montreal, on the other hand, drafts 2 spots ahead of the Leafs in every round where they hold their own picks. And then, of course, there's the fact that Winnipeg removed Dudley from his position prior to the draft whereas the Leafs don't appear to have any intention of doing the same.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2012, 08:57:16 AM »
Organization charts are a triangle - the higher you go in the organization, the less space there is.  Thus, if you fill as many places on your organization chart as you can with people with the potential to move up, some of them are going to have to leave the organization to reach their full potential.  Dallas Eakins is a case in point.  When Ron Wilson was fired, Burke chose to hire Randy Carlyle.  Dallas Eakins was an option, but at the time he had zero experience in the playoffs as a head coach.  Thus, Burke went with the candidate with a Stanley Cup ring as a head coach.  In an interview, though, Burke said that he believed Dallas Eakins would be an excellent NHL head coach some day, but he may have to leave the Leafs to have that opportunity.  Similarly, Burke has said that he believes that Nonis, Polin Loiselle, and Dudley all have potential for more senior positions and he expects that some of them will leave for a better position.

But you just illustrated the perfect example of the difference between how a guy in Eakins position might reasonably feel about his prospects for advancement and how Dudley should feel. Eakins has put in his time with the organization and, when there was an opportunity within the organization for advancement, he got passed over. If someone came calling with the offer of a better position in another organization, the Leafs should probably let him go because they didn't give him the chance to advance.

That's not the case with Dudley. He's put in less then one year. He hasn't been passed over for anything. There's a difference between there not being opportunity for advancement, which Eakins could legitimately claim, and there not being immediate advancement.

The Leafs, to be fair to their employees, should recognize the guys who've put in a lot of time for them and who they've promoted as far as they want in their organization and let them pursue opportunities elsewhere. That's simply not the case with Dudley. He's a newcomer who might very well move up in the organization if a guy like Nonis or Poulin get poached. The Leafs don't have an obligation to let guys out of their contracts because they aren't getting everything they want immediately.

With Dudley, it is hard to argue that the Leafs developed him.  He has been a GM for four NHL teams already!

That would be a valid argument if we were talking about development in the same context we talk about it in for a CHL player but what we're talking about is adapting anybody from outside of an organization to their role within a new organization. Every organization is going to have their different approaches and needs and philosophies. The way the Leafs have "developed" Dudley is in acclimating him to the needs and goals of the organization and, hopefully, giving him the resources to be the DPP that the organization would want.

Any front office personnel is going to have to be at their job for more than a year to have a significant impact. By going out and hiring someone new for the job next year they'll have to spend time getting that new guy up to speed and get him used to what Brian Burke wants and expects out of his organization.

It's not unreasonable for the Leafs to expect some sort of return on what they put into Rick Dudley, both from a financial standpoint and from a time standpoint.

He became unexpectedly unemployed when the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg and the new owners wanted a different front office.  He joined the Leafs just prior to the 2011 draft.  (Did anyone on this site suggest that this was unfair to Winnipeg?)

That doesn't make any sense. He was unemployed. If he was vital to Winnipeg's preparation for the draft in that franchise's POV he wouldn't have been unemployed. By making him unemployed, Winnipeg was inviting teams to hire the guy and reap the benefits of his knowledge.

I get that it would be a promotion for Dudley and, as a result, I understand why he'd want to take the job. But I also understand that if Tukka Rask went to the Boston Bruins and said he'd rather go elsewhere so he could start 65 games a year the Bruins would still put their own interests above the advancement of one of their employees and nobody would think that they were being unreasonable.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 09:12:35 AM by Nikł »
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Offline L K

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2012, 09:38:10 AM »
He became unexpectedly unemployed when the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg and the new owners wanted a different front office.  He joined the Leafs just prior to the 2011 draft.  (Did anyone on this site suggest that this was unfair to Winnipeg?) 

There are a few significant differences between that situation and the situation at hand. Firstly, Dudley joined the Leafs at the draft - too late to really contribute to the scouting staffs' ranking process. The Leafs' list was already well established at that point, and, as he had previously been GM in Atlanta, he wouldn't have been that deeply involved in the scouting process (GMs tend to be heavily involved in 1st round guys and not so involved in the rest). With the Leafs, he's been heavily involved in the scouting process leading up to this draft. Secondly, Winnipeg's pick was before Toronto's in every round, so, even if Dudley had knowledge of Winnipeg's plans, passing them on to Toronto wouldn't have had an impact on the newly christened Jets. On top of that, I'm almost certain the Leafs and Jets came to an agreement that Dudley wouldn't influence the Leafs picks in that draft as part of Dudley's hiring process. Montreal, on the other hand, drafts 2 spots ahead of the Leafs in every round where they hold their own picks. And then, of course, there's the fact that Winnipeg removed Dudley from his position prior to the draft whereas the Leafs don't appear to have any intention of doing the same.

Also there is that huge difference between being fired because Winnipeg wanted to hire the Manitoba Moose organization and Montreal trying to poach him to work in their organization.  Burke doesn't want Dudley to leave.

Offline Zee

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2012, 09:25:30 AM »
Draft day is June 22nd.  One more week or so and we're within the 30-day window he can give the Leafs to leave.  Hopefully he starts with the Habs after the draft day.

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2012, 09:35:58 AM »
Draft day is June 22nd.  One more week or so and we're within the 30-day window he can give the Leafs to leave.  Hopefully he starts with the Habs after the draft day.

I thought it was 30 days after the last regular season game?

Offline Zee

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2012, 09:41:25 AM »
Draft day is June 22nd.  One more week or so and we're within the 30-day window he can give the Leafs to leave.  Hopefully he starts with the Habs after the draft day.

I thought it was 30 days after the last regular season game?

Damn, if that's the case then that sucks.  I thought it was just a 30-days notice type thing whenever he gives it.

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2012, 10:53:15 AM »
Draft day is June 22nd.  One more week or so and we're within the 30-day window he can give the Leafs to leave.  Hopefully he starts with the Habs after the draft day.

I thought it was 30 days after the last regular season game?

Damn, if that's the case then that sucks.  I thought it was just a 30-days notice type thing whenever he gives it.

No one outside of those in NHL front offices are really clear on what it is. All we know is that it doesn't appear as though he's exercised that clause . . . yet.
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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2012, 07:59:03 PM »
TSNBobMcKenzie: If Rick Dudley leaves TOR for MTL, and it could happen by end of month, it would be conditional on him not being able to work draft for MTL.

TSNBobMcKenzie: In other words, pending successful negotiation of contract with MTL, Dudley has TOR's blessing to move as long as he isn't involved in draft
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Offline Zee

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2012, 09:58:45 AM »
TSNBobMcKenzie: If Rick Dudley leaves TOR for MTL, and it could happen by end of month, it would be conditional on him not being able to work draft for MTL.

TSNBobMcKenzie: In other words, pending successful negotiation of contract with MTL, Dudley has TOR's blessing to move as long as he isn't involved in draft

Good news.

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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2012, 11:10:37 AM »
DarrenDreger: Rick Dudley's move from Toronto to Mtl likely before NHL Draft, but Dudley won't be allowed to work the event for the Habs.
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Re: TSN: Rick Dudley expected to join Montreal as Assistant GM
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2012, 11:10:37 AM »