Author Topic: Justin Schultz  (Read 40814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tigger

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6368
  • You can play
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2012, 04:10:56 PM »
It says something in that he went 43rd when he was less of a known commodity.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2012, 04:12:14 PM »
Pronman figures if Shultz was in this years draft, he'd go in the 7-10 range... Just thought it give folks an idea at what kind of talent we're talking about here.

Not really. He's 22. That's going to give him a big edge in physical maturity and make him much less of a question mark.

Just passing along Pronman's 2 cents. I obviously have no idea but maybe he figures while Shultz can step in and play right away, there's a chance hell never be considered "elite" which might put is value back out of the top 5. Either way, we're taking a top 10 pick calibre guy (I think.)   

Offline Nik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 27649
  • Sucker punching Logan Couture
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2012, 04:21:38 PM »
Just passing along Pronman's 2 cents.

And I'm saying it doesn't say much about Schultz. Bozak was billed as being a 1sr round equivalent because he was more of a known quantity but that really said more about the nature of the draft than Bozak.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
- Sean Doolittle

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2012, 04:30:32 PM »
... and he said in this years draft which I suppose means that if one knew a thing or two about Schultz, he/she could probably formulate an idea on the talent level in this upcoming first round.

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21696
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2012, 04:37:35 PM »
... and he said in this years draft which I suppose means that if one knew a thing or two about Schultz, he/she could probably formulate an idea on the talent level in this upcoming first round.

To me, that says Pronman sees him as more of a 2nd pairing type, because that's what the guys going in that range in this years draft are likely going to be.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2012, 04:44:36 PM »

To me, that says Pronman sees him as more of a 2nd pairing type, because that's what the guys going in that range in this years draft are likely going to be.

I'd be hesitant to brand Shultz just yet.  He seems to be a really good player worthy of a top 10 pick had he been available in this year's draft. For me, that's a good starting place.   

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6975
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2012, 04:54:00 PM »
Yes, available as a 22 year old.  He's 'starting' with 4 years of development time so the comparison is silly, not comparable at all.

Offline Nik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 27649
  • Sucker punching Logan Couture
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2012, 04:56:08 PM »
I'd be hesitant to brand Shultz just yet.

Unless we're branding him a top ten pick?
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
- Sean Doolittle

Offline Tigger

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6368
  • You can play
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2012, 05:03:54 PM »
I'd be hesitant to brand Shultz just yet.

Unless we're branding him a top ten pick?

Nah, re-purposed from the second to the first round 4 years later...
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2012, 05:11:19 PM »
I'd be hesitant to brand Shultz just yet.

Unless we're branding him a top ten pick?

That's comparing apples to oranges though. One (certainly not me) might be able to predict a rough slot a player might go in but I think it's a lot tougher to ultimatly predict just where he'd be playing the majority of time especially when you factor in the context of what team would be drafting him (or in this case, trading for him) and where he'd fit in.  ... and no "we're" not branding anyone and neither am I.

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21696
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2012, 05:15:48 PM »
I'd be hesitant to brand Shultz just yet.  He seems to be a really good player worthy of a top 10 pick had he been available in this year's draft. For me, that's a good starting place.   

It's not so much branding as much as it is the reality of the statement that he'd go 7-10 in this year's draft when he has 4 more years of development time under his belt. They guys expected to go in that range aren't expected to be true 1st pairing types, and, if Schultz would go there as well, Pronman is basically saying he doesn't expect him to be either.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2012, 05:23:26 PM »

It's not so much branding as much as it is the reality of the statement that he'd go 7-10 in this year's draft when he has 4 more years of development time under his belt. They guys expected to go in that range aren't expected to be true 1st pairing types, and, if Schultz would go there as well, Pronman is basically saying he doesn't expect him to be either.

Fair enough. If Pronman is anywhere close to correct, it just means that Schultz is probably going to be a very good player one day - Probably sooner rather than later given his age. There's no exact science here, is there?

Offline Nik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 27649
  • Sucker punching Logan Couture
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2012, 05:24:08 PM »
That's comparing apples to oranges though. One (certainly not me) might be able to predict a rough slot a player might go in but I think it's a lot tougher to ultimatly predict just where he'd be playing the majority of time...

That doesn't make any sense. The whole point of any pre-draft evaluation is to try and ascertain how good and what kind of player a prospect will be. It's not just roughly slotting players against each other.

Besides as WIGWAL says it's a comparison that gives Schultz credit for development time while forgetting the issue of the shortened control the Leafs would have over him.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
- Sean Doolittle

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2012, 05:33:40 PM »
That's comparing apples to oranges though. One (certainly not me) might be able to predict a rough slot a player might go in but I think it's a lot tougher to ultimatly predict just where he'd be playing the majority of time...

That doesn't make any sense. The whole point of any pre-draft evaluation is to try and ascertain how good and what kind of player a prospect will be. It's not just roughly slotting players against each other.

Besides as WIGWAL says it's a comparison that gives Schultz credit for development time while forgetting the issue of the shortened control the Leafs would have over him.

I think it makes fine sense when you factor in the rest of what I said... Obviously you have a beef with Pronman's opinion here.  Not sure why but it doesn't bother me in the least.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 06:24:06 PM by Sarge »

Offline Nik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 27649
  • Sucker punching Logan Couture
    • View Profile
Re: Justin Schultz
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2012, 05:44:38 PM »
Obviously you have a beef with Pronman's opinion here.

Again, the issue primarily is the starting point of evaluating any 22 year old by trying to fit him into a draft of, and comparing him to, 18 year olds. What's funnier is the idea that slotting him into the draft is valid and meaningful but trying to then work out what that says about how good a player he'll likely be is venturing into dangerous territory to be avoided.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
- Sean Doolittle