Author Topic: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread  (Read 158588 times)

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Offline No.92

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 04:25:47 PM »
I really think they need to remove or lower the salary floor.  It's much too high for the lower grossing teams in the league.  Aside from that, I'd be in favor of Burke's suggestion to allow the eating of salary in a trade.  I would also be in favor of buying out of players but maybe not at 100% of the salary but say 80% and it won't count against your cap.

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 04:25:47 PM »

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 11:21:55 PM »
Well, LA and PIT appear to be very comfortable handing out megaterm contracts to their stars.  I wonder if they are anticipating some kind of franchise player status being part of the next deal.

Offline princedpw

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 12:09:32 AM »
Why did they wait so long to start? Couldn't they have got this done a while ago? I don't follow these things too closely, but it's been talked about for so long, you'd think they could have put the work in over the past year or so.

I doubt it matters when they start.  A deal will only get done when people start to lose money -- before that time both sides will hold out, hoping to maximize their profits.  Is there a major US sports league that got their CBA done on time in the last 20 years?

Offline princedpw

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 12:17:04 AM »
I don't think you'll be able to get the teams to agree to anything like that. One solution I was tinkering with to the whole Wade Redden type issue would be to allow teams to buyout guys that spend the entire season in the AHL with no cap penalty, but at 100% of their remaining salary.

How does that change things?  What is the incentive for a team to pay a guy 100% up front?  (That will cost the borrowing fees/interest for the upfront payment plus the cost of the replacement player on the AHL team.)

The rule I dislike is the veteran waiver rule: If you bring a guy up and another team wants him then not only do you have pay half his salary this year, you also have to pay half his salary in all subsequent years.  Paying half in all subsequent years makes no sense to me.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2012, 12:47:27 AM »
I doubt it matters when they start.  A deal will only get done when people start to lose money -- before that time both sides will hold out, hoping to maximize their profits.  Is there a major US sports league that got their CBA done on time in the last 20 years?

Major League Baseball hasn't had a work stoppage since the '94 strike.
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Offline princedpw

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2012, 12:52:25 AM »
I doubt it matters when they start.  A deal will only get done when people start to lose money -- before that time both sides will hold out, hoping to maximize their profits.  Is there a major US sports league that got their CBA done on time in the last 20 years?

Major League Baseball hasn't had a work stoppage since the '94 strike.

That is interesting.  They also have no real constraints on player salaries, do they?  I don't follow baseball.  I can only assume the owners have elected not to try to contain player salaries.  Any thoughts on why the small teams haven't taken control and demanded a clampdown?  Is there some kind of revenue sharing or TV money that changes the dynamics?

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 10:26:49 AM »
How does that change things?  What is the incentive for a team to pay a guy 100% up front?  (That will cost the borrowing fees/interest for the upfront payment plus the cost of the replacement player on the AHL team.)

Well, for one, it prevent Wade Redden type situations where NHL calibre players are in the AHL because their performance is not in line with their paycheque - something the PA will probably be a fan of. And, these players count against the cap in the summer. I'm sure the teams would love to be able to free up that space before the end of training camp and free up a spot on their reserve list while they're at it.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 10:53:13 AM »
That is interesting.  They also have no real constraints on player salaries, do they?  I don't follow baseball.  I can only assume the owners have elected not to try to contain player salaries.  Any thoughts on why the small teams haven't taken control and demanded a clampdown?  Is there some kind of revenue sharing or TV money that changes the dynamics?

I think it's more because MLB lets teams actually tailor their business to their marketplace. There's no spending/salary floors so small market teams that don't win can keep salaries low and the relatively small amount of revenue sharing can make them profitable. They don't indulge in the fantasy the NHL does wherein a couple of good seasons by the Panthers will turn Miami into Toronto South. The Pirates aren't the Yankees, never will be and shouldn't be expected to spend anywhere near them.

The NFL also hasn't missed games in a long time and they have a ton of revenue sharing. Their rigid cap makes a bit of sense when their insanely lucrative TV deals are split evenly.

In their own ways neither league has embraced the hypocrisy of dealing with the players as if they're all for one and one for all and then turning into paragons of Ayn Randian individualism in the boardroom. The NBA/NHL on the other hand have pursued rigid salary constraints(ceiling and floors) on teams while not normalizing revenues in any significant way. It's no wonder that's lead to combative players and divided owners.
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Offline L K

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2012, 11:09:30 AM »
I think this has pretty much destroyed the Leafs chances at adding anything in free agency.  There are 18 teams below the new cap floor currently.  That ignores teams signing but I think we see another offseason of 4th liner+ guys.  Guys who get 4th line minutes but maybe do some added PK or late game faceoff/checking kind of stuff getting those 1.7-2M kind of contracts that just don't work with Burke's strategy for trading for a bunch of guys who are underperforming and overpaid.

Offline Corn Flake

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 11:35:17 AM »
interesting piece from the player's point of view:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/player-really-stake-nhlpa-collective-bargaining-nhl-141923225--nhl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'm sort of surprised they think the threat of another rollback is real. I don't see that happening at all, but hey what do I know.

Offline louisstamos

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 11:51:20 AM »
interesting piece from the player's point of view:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/player-really-stake-nhlpa-collective-bargaining-nhl-141923225--nhl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'm sort of surprised they think the threat of another rollback is real. I don't see that happening at all, but hey what do I know.

This is very, very well written article...I can't help but wonder which player wrote it.

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 12:24:14 PM »
interesting piece from the player's point of view:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/player-really-stake-nhlpa-collective-bargaining-nhl-141923225--nhl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'm sort of surprised they think the threat of another rollback is real. I don't see that happening at all, but hey what do I know.

I can see a rollback of shared revenue between the league and players going down to 54%-50% range. (I think the League will push for a 50-50 revenue split)

Whether that translates to an actual rollback in salaries already on the books, I'm not sure about that.

I assume escrow will be a thing of the past since revenue never dropped during the last CBA.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 12:28:42 PM »
I assume escrow will be a thing of the past since revenue never dropped during the last CBA.

That's not all that escrow was about, though. Players are entitled to a percentage of league revenue, but, the total value of all player contracts can theoretically exceed that number. Part of the purpose of escrow was to make sure that, in that situation, the owners still didn't pay out more than CBA bound them to.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 12:30:00 PM »
I assume escrow will be a thing of the past since revenue never dropped during the last CBA.

That's not all that escrow was about, though. Players are entitled to a percentage of league revenue, but, the total value of all player contracts can theoretically exceed that number. Part of the purpose of escrow was to make sure that, in that situation, the owners still didn't pay out more than CBA bound them to.

Yeah, and I think it'll go the way of the Dodo.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 12:32:26 PM »
Yeah, and I think it'll go the way of the Dodo.

No way the owners go for that. They want that percentage fixed. The only way to ensure that is escrow.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: 2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 12:32:26 PM »