Author Topic: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?  (Read 6614 times)

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Offline Potvin29

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2012, 10:56:27 PM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2012, 10:56:27 PM »

Offline bustaheims

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2012, 11:00:51 PM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

He did have the benefit of having significant funds to allocate to his scouting staff while he was here - something he's unlikely to have in Columbus - but, yeah, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson are all JFJ era picks.
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2012, 11:08:57 PM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

He did have the benefit of having significant funds to allocate to his scouting staff while he was here - something he's unlikely to have in Columbus - but, yeah, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson are all JFJ era picks.

I think the problem is he's going into a situation where he's pretty much guaranteed to fail, similar to what he came into with Toronto (although not quite as bad of course). Management is going to want a winner and the team just isn't there yet. No reputable GM is going to take that job so they need to find a puppet.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 02:04:51 AM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.
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Offline Zee

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 08:23:12 AM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

Offline Corn Flake

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2012, 08:32:15 AM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

True, with the added note that GM's will outline for the scouts the type of players they want, with certain attributes taking priority over others and the scout's job is to help rank players according to those priorities, especially in early rounds. I think its one of the things we have seen change a lot under Burke, where character has become the top attribute he is looking for with work ethic second and maybe skill 3rd. 

Jason Blake and Jiri Tlusty are two great examples where skill was taken over character issues or the ability to play at a level every night to succeed. 

Offline Zee

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 08:56:29 AM »
I still recall JFJ bringing in the Polish Prince.  Great FA signing.  :o

Offline Corn Flake

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2012, 09:30:14 AM »
I still recall JFJ bringing in the Polish Prince.  Great FA signing.  :o

Yet another great example.  All skill, no heart (or brains).

Offline lamajama

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2012, 11:48:50 AM »
I think the Belfour contract is severely under-rated in terms of absolute stupidity...
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 01:08:30 PM »
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

A GM tends to have more of a say in the first round or two, then he lets his scouts take over later. But yeah it's impossible to say for sure who deserves credit.

Offline Zee

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2012, 01:11:17 PM »
I think the Belfour contract is severely under-rated in terms of absolute stupidity...

Did he give Belfour an NTC/NMC?  I can't recall cause he was handing them out to everyone and their brother like nonna hands out candies to my kids.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2012, 01:16:44 PM »
As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

But then it has to be consistent. If he doesn't get buried for the Tlusty pick, he's not the guy to laud for the Kulemin or Gunnar picks either. Either a GM is responsible for the successes and failures of his draft choices or he isn't.

In which case, you're back to judging JFJ solely on his FA signings/trades and he's an out and out trainwreck.
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Offline Zee

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2012, 01:19:29 PM »
As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

But then it has to be consistent. If he doesn't get buried for the Tlusty pick, he's not the guy to laud for the Kulemin or Gunnar picks either. Either a GM is responsible for the successes and failures of his draft choices or he isn't.

In which case, you're back to judging JFJ solely on his FA signings/trades and he's an out and out trainwreck.

That's true, but it's only Burke ever lauding JFJ, just because Burke is Burke and doesn't like taking cheap shots at former players/management.  I can't imagine Burke ever saying "if only JFJ didn't draft that shmuck Tlusty we'd be in better shape today!"  :D

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 01:22:39 PM »
That's true, but it's only Burke ever lauding JFJ, just because Burke is Burke and doesn't like taking cheap shots at former players/management.

I'm referring to the earlier comments about JFJ's draft record in this thread. But, point taken, I believe like 30% of what Burke says anyway.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2012, 01:25:34 PM »
A GM tends to have more of a say in the first round or two, then he lets his scouts take over later. But yeah it's impossible to say for sure who deserves credit.

That's true, but, at the same time, the GM has an awful lot of say as to who he employs as scouts.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2012, 01:25:34 PM »