Author Topic: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread  (Read 17731 times)

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Offline Arn

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #540 on: October 04, 2021, 03:41:39 AM »
Bullpen definitely cost this team a playoff spot. Probably half a dozen games they could/should have won, but Dolis/Chatwood/etc., ended up blowing.

Yeah, but I bet the Yankees/Red Sox could say the same thing about games they could/should have won.

Yeah, I don't think you can pick individual games at all. It's a 162 game season which kind of covers a lot of those oh so close games off. They should even out.

You can pick themes though - the bullpen being one. The signing of Yates as closer maybe another (or part of the same thing) etc.

But ultimately you had a season you wouldn't have expected from a bunch of guys most people didn't think were at 91 win stage yet.

You had 2 potential MVPs in Vlad Jr and Semien who had actual historically good seasons. You've had a Cy Young performance from a (almost but not really quite) reclamation starter you got on a cheap deal.

The expected ace in Ryu actually probably underperformed as well.

But what the core of the side has done is show management that they're there or there abouts, so it's time for management to back them I think.
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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #541 on: October 04, 2021, 09:23:56 AM »
Bullpen definitely cost this team a playoff spot. Probably half a dozen games they could/should have won, but Dolis/Chatwood/etc., ended up blowing.

Yeah, but I bet the Yankees/Red Sox could say the same thing about games they could/should have won.

Sure, and that's a big part of why I don't want to single out individual games. Boston and New York didn't come in significantly below their expected W-L like the Jays did. The bullpen as a whole performed below the level of a playoff team for a big chunk of the season, and it cost the team a playoff spot.
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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #541 on: October 04, 2021, 09:23:56 AM »

Offline Nik

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #542 on: October 04, 2021, 11:55:19 AM »
Sure, and that's a big part of why I don't want to single out individual games. Boston and New York didn't come in significantly below their expected W-L like the Jays did. The bullpen as a whole performed below the level of a playoff team for a big chunk of the season, and it cost the team a playoff spot.

Sure, but if you're one game out of a playoff spot then anything bad about your team more or less cost you a playoff spot. The Springer Injury, Ryu's bad year, not really solving things at 3rd base...

Likewise, if we look back at the actual home stretch it doesn't feel like it was their bullpen that cost them but a fairly inconsistent offense that, you know, put up 70 runs against the Orioles in 6 games and then struggled and sputtered against the Twins and Rays. To me that speaks to the wild run differential as much as a bad bullpen.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #543 on: October 04, 2021, 03:23:33 PM »
I concur with the suggestion at sportsnet.ca that these Jays players will have a pretty good understanding now of why those early/mid season games are pretty important to win in the AL East.

Offline Nik

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #544 on: November 09, 2021, 07:53:32 PM »

Vladdy Jr. won the AL Hank Aaron Award as the league's best offensive player. Nice to see him add some more hardware from an incredible season.
I wish to hell I’d never said "Winning isn’t everything it’s the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you’ve won.
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Offline Nik

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #545 on: November 12, 2021, 01:37:17 PM »

So I think it's clear right now that the Jays have 5 main issues for the off-season which I'll list in what I think are their relative importance:

1. Re-signing or replacing Semien
2. Re-signing or replacing Ray
3. Figuring out their 3B situation
4. Re-signing or replacing Matz
5. Rounding out the bullpen

There are other questions like who is the #5 SP and do they try to add a fulltime DH but I think that's the big stuff. Now, my preference for 1 and 2 would just be to re-sign Semien and Ray. 3B I feel like you can go cheap and try Espinal/Biggio for another year with the hopes that Groshans is ready soon or you can swing for the fences and try to land someone like Jose Ramirez by parting with more prospect depth. Matz I'm luke-warm on bringing back and think they could do better by trading Kirk somewhere for a #4.

Thoughts? Targets? Dream scenarios?
I wish to hell I’d never said "Winning isn’t everything it’s the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you’ve won.
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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #546 on: November 12, 2021, 02:26:05 PM »
Would definitely love to hang on to Ray and Semien, but I doubt the Jays can retain both. I can see Ray sticking around, but I think Semien is heading back out west.

Scherzer would be a great add, but a pipe dream. Verlander on a short contract could also be interesting, and slightly less unrealistic - though still extremely unlikely. Bryant, Escobar, Baez, and Seager would also be high on my list for rounding out the infield. Maybe someone like Rodon or Gray to replace Matz? There's lots of middle of rotation arms out there, and the Jays need to land at least one of them.

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Offline Nik

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #547 on: November 12, 2021, 03:30:23 PM »
Would definitely love to hang on to Ray and Semien, but I doubt the Jays can retain both. I can see Ray sticking around, but I think Semien is heading back out west.

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about Semien. I think the crazy good free agent crop at SS means that he'll be a lot of teams 3rd or 4th choice behind guys like Seager, Correa and Story. So if he wants to get a deal done before the CBA is settled he may want to go with wherever he's the 1st choice which may be a fairly limited group of teams.

Ray I think just comes down to $$$ and who's willing to gamble on his year being more than a fluke.
I wish to hell I’d never said "Winning isn’t everything it’s the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you’ve won.
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Nik

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #548 on: November 15, 2021, 07:13:03 PM »

Vladdy Jr. is more than 4 years younger than the AL Rookie of the Year.
I wish to hell I’d never said "Winning isn’t everything it’s the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you’ve won.
- Vince Lombardi

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #549 on: November 17, 2021, 06:30:35 PM »
Ray wins the Cy Young, with 29/30 1st place votes.

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #550 on: November 17, 2021, 06:40:27 PM »
Ray wins the Cy Young, with 29/30 1st place votes.

Well deserved. Now, the Jays need to get him signed.
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #551 on: November 17, 2021, 07:34:22 PM »
Ray wins the Cy Young, with 29/30 1st place votes.

Well deserved. Now, the Jays need to get him signed.

I don’t know about need. I knows it’s not one vs the other but if they’re going to go nuts on a contract I’d rather they bid it with Semien.

Don’t get me wrong I hope they get both. But I think Ray over the next 5 years is not going to be the Ray we saw last season.

Offline Nik

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #552 on: November 17, 2021, 11:50:02 PM »

To be honest, I don't think either guy is a "need" to be re-signed and I think in both cases you're risking paying a lot for career years. I think you need to effectively fill those gaps but I think there are interesting options out there at various price points.
I wish to hell I’d never said "Winning isn’t everything it’s the only thing". What I believe is, if you go out on a football field, or any endeavour in life, and you leave every fibre of what you have on the field, then you’ve won.
- Vince Lombardi

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #553 on: November 18, 2021, 08:15:58 AM »
I don’t know about need. I knows it’s not one vs the other but if they’re going to go nuts on a contract I’d rather they bid it with Semien.

Don’t get me wrong I hope they get both. But I think Ray over the next 5 years is not going to be the Ray we saw last season.

I tend to prioritize front-on-the-rotation starters - especially for a team where offence won't be an issue, even with a downgrade from Semien to whoever (which could be somewhat mitigated with an upgrade at 3B) - and, even if Ray isn't Cy young calibre for the next 5 seasons, I'm not convinced he'll drop off enough for it to be a problem. The changes he made to his mechanics and his approach should be sustainable.

You can manage a downgrade at one position with smaller improvements at others, as there's 8 other guys in the lineup every game. Can't really do that effectively with starting pitching.
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Offline L K

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Re: 2021 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #554 on: November 18, 2021, 08:40:57 AM »
The rotation is technically better for having a full season of Berrios and not starting the year with Tanner Roark.  That being said we are also banking on Manoah not taking a step back from being pretty phenomenal.  There is inevitably going to be some kind of adjustment to his pitching next year.   

They don't need to sign Ray but they do need another front end of the rotation starter.