Author Topic: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread  (Read 6282 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2020, 07:55:10 PM »
As the saying goes, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying hard enough. There’s always been acceptable cheating in sports. What the Astros did clearly crossed the line.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2020, 08:46:25 PM »
What the Astros did clearly crossed the line.

I suppose but I think it's interesting to ask why that is ethically. It isn't that using technology crosses the line between against the rules and not against the rules because things like a spitball/scuffball is against the rules and that's part of the grand tradition of baseball cheating. So is it that they did it and won a championship? That they did it despite being a talented team? That it was a group thing as opposed to an individual effort?

Again, it was wrong and they shouldn't do it and yadda yadda and all but it doesn't, like, offend me.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2020, 09:24:24 PM »
I suppose but I think it's interesting to ask why that is ethically. It isn't that using technology crosses the line between against the rules and not against the rules because things like a spitball/scuffball is against the rules and that's part of the grand tradition of baseball cheating. So is it that they did it and won a championship? That they did it despite being a talented team? That it was a group thing as opposed to an individual effort?

Again, it was wrong and they shouldn't do it and yadda yadda and all but it doesn't, like, offend me.

For me, it’s that they went outside the players and coaches that were on the field or in the dugout. If your cheating scheme relies on people in the stands or the video room or whatever, it crosses the line. I’d consider a video camera to be the same - they’re not on the field of play or operated by players or coaching staff. Using them to cheat is going too far. If it can’t be done by the guys in uniform while they’re in uniform, it’s outside the acceptable realm.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2020, 09:30:04 AM »
For me, it’s that they went outside the players and coaches that were on the field or in the dugout. If your cheating scheme relies on people in the stands or the video room or whatever, it crosses the line. I’d consider a video camera to be the same - they’re not on the field of play or operated by players or coaching staff. Using them to cheat is going too far. If it can’t be done by the guys in uniform while they’re in uniform, it’s outside the acceptable realm.

Eh. That makes a convincing case that it's different. I don't know about worse.

Like, the game over the last decade has seen teams spending millions of dollars to get the most advanced analytical information they can possibly get which is then put into manager's hands in whatever form they want so that they can make decisions on where to precisely position each defensive player on every pitch against every particular hitter but a guy in the bleachers trying to steal signs is a bridge too far in terms of off-field influence on the game?

I'm not disagreeing, exactly, obviously an ethical or moral question has no right or wrong answer and I understand and agree with the idea that what the Astros did should be against the rules and I'd be fine with the team receiving a much harsher penalty than they did. I just can't get worked up over it is all.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2020, 10:03:22 AM »
Like, the game over the last decade has seen teams spending millions of dollars to get the most advanced analytical information they can possibly get which is then put into manager's hands in whatever form they want so that they can make decisions on where to precisely position each defensive player on every pitch against every particular hitter but a guy in the bleachers trying to steal signs is a bridge too far in terms of off-field influence on the game?

I think the difference there is that one is a fairly standard practice, and the information being relayed is aggregate data and trends that indicate likely possibilities, while the other is "this is what's happening right now." One allows the team to make informed decisions, while the other is telling the guy at the plate what pitch is coming now.

To me, they're quite different scenarios.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2020, 10:37:46 AM »
I think the difference there is that one is a fairly standard practice, and the information being relayed is aggregate data and trends that indicate likely possibilities, while the other is "this is what's happening right now." One allows the team to make informed decisions, while the other is telling the guy at the plate what pitch is coming now.

To me, they're quite different scenarios.


Except that all the Astros could do was guess at what pitch they thought was coming next based on having cracked the other team's signals, which can change at any moment. In the future, now that we know more about what the Astros did, it seems unlikely that short of using some sort of electronic signalling device(which we still don't know was ever used) you could communicate that to a hitter. After all, banging a trashcan now would lead to a pitcher and catcher changing their signals immediately.

That said, they are different. But different or not still isn't the question. Worse or not is. I'm not inclined to do it but if I had to say which has been worse for the sport? Eh...I could make the argument either way. 

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Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2020, 07:41:01 PM »

Blue Jays get lucky and get Austin Martin in the draft. A guy who was widely seen as one of the top 2 guys in the draft.
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Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2020, 07:48:31 PM »

Keith Law had him as the #1 guy in the draft

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Offline herman

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2020, 08:19:53 PM »
The Jays kids look really fun. Austin Martin looks like a steal at 5.
#BeBlessed

Offline Andy

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2020, 09:04:21 PM »
Thank you Baltimore! Martin seemed like a lock at #2 and had multiple #1 rankings. Wow.

Online Highlander

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2020, 09:10:08 PM »
The Jays kids look really fun. Austin Martin looks like a steal at 5.
How did this happen? 
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Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2020, 09:12:57 PM »

Baltimore went for a guy they might get under slot so they can be aggressive with their 2nd 1st round pick and Miami and KC both wanted pitching, apparently. So Martin falls to the Jays.
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Offline herman

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2020, 09:51:24 PM »
69 plate appearances this shortened season: only 2 Ks
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 10:23:14 PM by herman »
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Offline Frank E

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2020, 10:29:36 AM »
When does he project to be on the big club roster?

Offline Nik

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Re: 2020 Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2020, 11:08:31 AM »
When does he project to be on the big club roster?

I've seen some suggestions that he start next year at AA so if he hits there he could get September time.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
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