Author Topic: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash  (Read 531 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2020, 01:46:47 AM »
The California mountains can be pretty brutal especially in light of dense fog.

According to officials, the weather conditions were subpar:

Quote
Los Angeles Police Department spokesman Josh Rubenstein said the department’s Air Support Division grounded its helicopters Sunday morning because of foggy conditions and didn’t fly until the afternoon.

“The weather situation did not meet our minimum standards for flying,” Rubenstein said.

At this point, engine failure dies not appear to be in the mix, according to some:

Quote
Kurt Deetz, a former pilot for Island Express Helicopters who used to fly Bryant in the chopper, said weather conditions were poor in Van Nuys on Sunday morning — “not good at all.”

The crash was more likely caused by bad weather than engine or mechanical issues, he said. “The likelihood of a catastrophic twin engine failure on that aircraft — it just doesn’t happen,” he said.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-01-26/kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-dense-fog-investigation

Offline TML fan

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 3947
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2020, 09:35:36 AM »
Sounds like pilot error with a case of "get-there-itis" thrown in.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2020, 09:35:36 AM »

Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 19371
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2020, 11:28:41 AM »
It is a shame we don’t understand human psychology well enough to generate this kind of emotion for the thousands who die from malaria or who wish to flee from war or violence or for the many other preventable causes of death and suffering.

Hear hear.

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6905
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2020, 11:30:09 AM »

...I don't have numbers supporting that but, I mean, it really feels like it's not a good way to travel.

When it comes to air travel you're correct. I can't find much in the way of any recent stats for USA but a "Fortune" piece from a few years ago said that for the USA:

...Americans have a 1 in 114 chance of dying in a car crash, according to the National Safety Council. The odds of dying in air and space transport incidents, which include private flights and air taxis, are 1 in 9,821. That’s almost three times better chances than you meeting your fate by choking on food.
Pretty devastating news.  I took some helicopter training when I was young and even though the technology is way better on the machines than 40 years ago, they are still incredible dangerous aircraft compared to fixed wing.  According to the latest information they were flying in foggy conditions, they shouldn't have been flying in those conditions.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6905
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 11:33:36 AM »
Sounds like pilot error with a case of "get-there-itis" thrown in.
Ya pretty much the same "get-there-itis" that killed JFK Jr and his wife and her sister.  A Limo ride may have taken a bit longer but they may have still been here.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2020, 03:45:19 PM »
It is a shame we don’t understand human psychology well enough to generate this kind of emotion for the thousands who die from malaria or who wish to flee from war or violence or for the many other preventable causes of death and suffering.

I think we understand human psychology well enough here. People who have an emotional connection to someone, even if it's just one generated through being a sports fan and watching them play basketball, will be invested in their death in a way they won't when someone they don't know dies. That's not a bad thing. If we felt the same way about people we didn't know dying that we do about the people we know and have affection for our lives would be a never ending torment of grief.

And if your point is that we should have emotional investment in people dying of communicable diseases or war to the extent we do in the famous people who inspire us or we admire...really? Is that your point? You wanted to come into this thread and say to people "You know, that thing that's making all of you sad isn't really appropriately significant and not really how your emotions should be invested"? Because wow.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2020, 01:58:33 AM »
Touching and beautiful.  It’s not often that we read of #girldad stories.

Read on:https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/kobe-bryant-espn-girldad-hashtag-viral-twitter-nba-234110306.html


My father was my best friend, my biggest music fan, and a mentor.  If I had wanted to become an engineer, my Dad would have said go ahead.  Those are things I miss when remembering some of the best young years of my life.
Precious memories never die.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 07:41:52 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Online Bender

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6566
  • Gender: Male
  • Bender cracked corn and he is great!
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2020, 10:42:08 AM »

...I don't have numbers supporting that but, I mean, it really feels like it's not a good way to travel.

When it comes to air travel you're correct. I can't find much in the way of any recent stats for USA but a "Fortune" piece from a few years ago said that for the USA:

...Americans have a 1 in 114 chance of dying in a car crash, according to the National Safety Council. The odds of dying in air and space transport incidents, which include private flights and air taxis, are 1 in 9,821. That’s almost three times better chances than you meeting your fate by choking on food.

Doesn't that make air travel, including helicopters, much more safe than cars?
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Online Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6905
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2020, 10:56:27 AM »
Yes air travel is far safer than car travel, no doubt by a country mile.  Same for Helicopters, except Helicopters are far more dangerous than fixed wing flight.  One of the reasons is they usually fly much lower in airspace making them susceptible to hitting in the case of Kobe, a mountain.  The usually accident cause when not mechanical is hitting power lines.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Offline Hobbes

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 997
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2020, 12:50:09 PM »
Yes air travel is far safer than car travel, no doubt by a country mile.  Same for Helicopters, except Helicopters are far more dangerous than fixed wing flight.  One of the reasons is they usually fly much lower in airspace making them susceptible to hitting in the case of Kobe, a mountain.  The usually accident cause when not mechanical is hitting power lines.

Similarly, private aircraft statistics are much worse than commercial flights (of course when there's a problem with a commercial flight it can easily result in more than 100 deaths from a single incident).

It all pales in comparison to vehicles where in just the USA:
Quote from: CDC article
...[M]ore than 32,000 people are killed and 2 million are injured each year from motor vehicle crashes. In 2013, the US crash death rate was more than twice the average of other high-income countries. In the US, front seat belt use was lower than in most other comparison countries. One in 3 crash deaths in the US involved drunk driving, and almost 1 in 3 involved speeding.
It's not denial...I'm just very selective about the reality I accept.

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Kobe Bryant among 5 killed in Helicpoter Crash
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2020, 02:10:07 PM »

...I don't have numbers supporting that but, I mean, it really feels like it's not a good way to travel.

When it comes to air travel you're correct. I can't find much in the way of any recent stats for USA but a "Fortune" piece from a few years ago said that for the USA:

...Americans have a 1 in 114 chance of dying in a car crash, according to the National Safety Council. The odds of dying in air and space transport incidents, which include private flights and air taxis, are 1 in 9,821. That’s almost three times better chances than you meeting your fate by choking on food.

Doesn't that make air travel, including helicopters, much more safe than cars?

No. Your chances of being killed by a cow are much higher than your chances of being killed by a Velociraptor, but that's not because Cows are more efficient killing machines, it's because encountering a Velociraptor is rarer.

Similarly millions and millions of people are in cars multiple times a day while helicopter travel is largely reserved for the wealthy so of course the raw death totals for car travel, and therefore your random odds of dying in a crash, will be higher.

Likewise, without wanting to dig too deeply into the NSC's methodology, there's a problem with just taking the raw number for deaths by vehicle and applying it to the point I'm making. There are lots of things a person can consciously choose to do to that would drastically lower their chances of dying in a car crash. Wearing their seatbelt, driving at the speed limit, not drinking alcohol, driving at certain times of day, not being an elderly driver...all of those factors contribute to the national average "chance" of someone dying in a car crash but don't really apply here.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx