Poll

Who will captain the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2019?

William Nylander
20 (60.6%)
John Tavares
3 (9.1%)
Morgan Rielly
6 (18.2%)
Mitch Marner
0 (0%)
No one
4 (12.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Author Topic: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion  (Read 33501 times)

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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #855 on: July 29, 2019, 05:38:44 PM »

I've said before I think New Jersey and Gardiner seem like such a perfect fit. Maybe they want to dump either Vatanen or Severson somewhere first. Although they do have tons of cap space at the moment so I'm not sure why they'd wait.

I do think though that Gardiner coming back here on a 1-year deal is a pipedream. Despite not signing yet I'm sure he'll eventually get a 4-5 year deal for at least $5mil somewhere. It's not the deal he originally wanted but it's still pretty good coin.

Bye Ceci!

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #856 on: July 29, 2019, 06:13:46 PM »

I've said before I think New Jersey and Gardiner seem like such a perfect fit. Maybe they want to dump either Vatanen or Severson somewhere first. Although they do have tons of cap space at the moment so I'm not sure why they'd wait.

I do think though that Gardiner coming back here on a 1-year deal is a pipedream. Despite not signing yet I'm sure he'll eventually get a 4-5 year deal for at least $5mil somewhere. It's not the deal he originally wanted but it's still pretty good coin.

Bye Ceci!
If Gardiner signs for anywhere near 5 mill, the Leafs clearly didn't want him back.

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #856 on: July 29, 2019, 06:13:46 PM »

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #857 on: July 30, 2019, 07:24:59 AM »
Or they didn't anticipate his price dropping that low.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #858 on: July 30, 2019, 08:17:01 AM »

Something else to consider is that Gardiner may not be over the moon with the role the Leafs would be offering him. I think we've all generally accepted that the Leafs will be going with 4 forwards and a D on the PP and the PP will be handled by Rielly and Barrie. If some other team is offering Gardiner more of a PP focused role with maybe a defensive partner that would allow him to roam a bit more he may be better situated than he would be here.
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #859 on: July 30, 2019, 09:17:08 AM »
Let's face it, Jake can't be that hot of a commodity.  Top-drawer UFAs aren't still on the market a month after signings open. 

I think his back injury has significantly depressed his value. 

Mind you, if we could swap him out for Ceci at the same rate I'd do it in a New York minute.

Offline Average Joes

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #860 on: July 30, 2019, 09:28:53 AM »

Something else to consider is that Gardiner may not be over the moon with the role the Leafs would be offering him. I think we've all generally accepted that the Leafs will be going with 4 forwards and a D on the PP and the PP will be handled by Rielly and Barrie. If some other team is offering Gardiner more of a PP focused role with maybe a defensive partner that would allow him to roam a bit more he may be better situated than he would be here.

I never understood the argument that he would come here for a year well under market value, play healthy and then next year make his money.  Unless he suddenly starts playing on the top PK unit his minutes are going to reduced. In the unlikely event that he was told he was going to play on the PK that is not going to help his point total$. It would be a poor career move for him to sign here. 

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #861 on: July 30, 2019, 09:49:00 AM »
I never understood the argument that he would come here for a year well under market value, play healthy and then next year make his money. 

I think it's an argument with three basic ideas:

1. Teams are wary of his health. Playing here with reduced minutes would probably help him stay healthy for a year.

2. Despite reduced minutes he'd still be playing on a team with a lot of offensive firepower which represents a good opportunity for getting points.

3. He feels an attachment to the team/city and wants to be part of the playoff breakthrough we all hope will come.

I don't think anyone who put it forth did so with the idea that it was super-likely, just that it shouldn't be dismissed as wild fantasy either.
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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #862 on: July 30, 2019, 03:57:28 PM »
Let's face it, Jake can't be that hot of a commodity.  Top-drawer UFAs aren't still on the market a month after signings open. 

I think his back injury has significantly depressed his value. 

Mind you, if we could swap him out for Ceci at the same rate I'd do it in a New York minute.
Add in the fact he isn't all that good defensively and it really isn't that surprising. Def take him at 4.5.

Online herman

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #863 on: July 30, 2019, 04:15:02 PM »
The fact that he isnt good defensively is in fact an incorrect fact.
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Offline princedpw

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #864 on: July 30, 2019, 04:36:39 PM »
Let's face it, Jake can't be that hot of a commodity.  Top-drawer UFAs aren't still on the market a month after signings open. 

I think his back injury has significantly depressed his value. 

I guess that must be it.  If you factor out the back injury, a cursory reading of the stats suggests that Jake was easily the best defenseman UFA on the market significantly better than Myers.  GMs are typically falling all over themselves to wildly overpay a guy like that.  My rule of thumb was typically to pick the highest number I thought a guy could possibly be worth and then add a couple million more. Also, pick a reasonable term for the contract. Then ignore that number, pick a larger one, double it and round down to the cap limit. So for Gardiner, that would mean that 7-8 million/year over 7 years wouldnt have shocked me in the slightest if he was injury-free.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #865 on: July 30, 2019, 04:38:41 PM »
GMs are typically falling all over themselves to wildly overpay a guy like that.

GM's typically fall over themselves to wildly overpay for players that "eye tests" despise but analytics love?

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #866 on: July 30, 2019, 05:08:49 PM »
GMs are typically falling all over themselves to wildly overpay a guy like that.

GM's typically fall over themselves to wildly overpay for players that "eye tests" despise but analytics love?

You would think that someone would be able to see past the 'eye test' and see that he is a solid defensemen.

I cannot stand the way he plays but I'll fully admit that it's all based on what I see. When you look at his numbers, he is obviously a real solid player. It truly is a head scratcher that he hasn't been signed. Maybe he wants to go home to Minnesota? Do they have a defense they'd need to make room for him?

Online herman

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #867 on: July 31, 2019, 10:21:04 AM »

Jake-effect

Edit: note that Gardiner was deployed sans Zaitsev when chasing the score, usually with Rielly and Matthews and Tavares and Marner and Kadri (and Nylander eventually).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 10:26:20 AM by herman »
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Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #868 on: August 01, 2019, 03:44:13 AM »

I've said before I think New Jersey and Gardiner seem like such a perfect fit. Maybe they want to dump either Vatanen or Severson somewhere first. Although they do have tons of cap space at the moment so I'm not sure why they'd wait.

I do think though that Gardiner coming back here on a 1-year deal is a pipedream. Despite not signing yet I'm sure he'll eventually get a 4-5 year deal for at least $5mil somewhere. It's not the deal he originally wanted but it's still pretty good coin.

New York Rangers with Shattenkirk bought out?

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion
« Reply #869 on: August 01, 2019, 08:09:09 AM »
New York Rangers with Shattenkirk bought out?

Unlikely. The Rangers were actually well over the cap, so the Shattenkirk buyout just barely gets them under.