Author Topic: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread  (Read 10369 times)

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Offline Deebo

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 10:03:43 AM »
Season ticket sales are drastically lower.  I think the goodwill of Vlad being in the lineup probably provides more for the fanbase than the extra year of control.

Even if that goodwill is only delayed for 7-8 home games?

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 10:20:26 AM »
Season ticket sales are drastically lower.  I think the goodwill of Vlad being in the lineup probably provides more for the fanbase than the extra year of control.

Even if that goodwill is only delayed for 7-8 home games?

I don't actually think the amount of time/number of games matters much. It's hanging a big sign on the front door that says you're not worried about the outcome of the season if you're willing to lose even a single game to this.

Which is fair enough if that's the strategy given the way the league rewards failure but I absolutely think it's fine for fans, after being told not to care about the season, to check out until they can even pretend that they might be watching a winning ballclub.
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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 10:20:26 AM »

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 10:30:45 AM »
There's no team, in any situation, in all of Baseball, that would be doing anything different with Vlad Jr's service time. It's a moot point.

Did it make sense to bring Freddy Galvis into the fold as the starting short stop? Better to go with Gurriel and Travis up the middle and bring in some veteran as a back up?

Offline L K

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2019, 10:34:39 AM »
Season ticket sales are drastically lower.  I think the goodwill of Vlad being in the lineup probably provides more for the fanbase than the extra year of control.

Even if that goodwill is only delayed for 7-8 home games?

Honestly, no? 

It's more of a principle thing.  Intentionally not fielding your best lineup.  It doesn't really matter if it is 1 game or 100 to me.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2019, 10:41:03 AM »
Honestly, no? 

It's more of a principle thing.  Intentionally not fielding your best lineup.  It doesn't really matter if it is 1 game or 100 to me.

I mean the Leafs kinda did this with Nylander in the Matthews draft year. That was more of a straight-up tank move than a contract/CBA wrinkle, but still it was the same sorta idea. And that worked out pretty well.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2019, 10:46:38 AM »
I mean the Leafs kinda did this with Nylander in the Matthews draft year. That was more of a straight-up tank move than a contract/CBA wrinkle, but still it was the same sorta idea. And that worked out pretty well.

This is true but the Leafs had a particular luxury there where they had a very loyal fanbase that had a huge appetite for the team rebuilding so they could land the sort of asset like Matthews that would be instrumental in the team competing in the future.

This move would be more like if, the next year, the Leafs had decided to keep Matthews down for a while.

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Online bustaheims

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2019, 10:49:19 AM »
I don't actually think the amount of time/number of games matters much. It's hanging a big sign on the front door that says you're not worried about the outcome of the season if you're willing to lose even a single game to this.

Which is fair enough if that's the strategy given the way the league rewards failure but I absolutely think it's fine for fans, after being told not to care about the season, to check out until they can even pretend that they might be watching a winning ballclub.

This is basically how I see it. From the team's perspective, it makes perfect sense - they know they're not in the hunt for a playoff spot this season, so, why waste a season of team control on their best prospect if they save it so easily?

For the fans? It's a clear indicator this season is going to be a rough one in terms of the team's record. Having the best prospect in the game in the lineup from Day 1 might have made it more tolerable, but, now that it's clear the team is doing what it feels is best in the long-run (regardless of whether or not it actually is), I'm gonna stay home to watch the games, if I watch at all.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Highlander

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2019, 10:56:08 AM »
Yes the Leafs have a fanatic fan base which has stayed with them through the wilderness years (50 +).
 Baseball is a more fickle sport, but we have seen before that Jays fans (perhaps more of Canada's team than the Leafs at this point) will flock back when the Jays make the playoffs.
I am sure that having Vlad for one more year when the Jays are at top level in year 5 that looking back to 7 home games will be forgotten or at worst a muffled laugh that we actually were discussing this to such length.

Ok Nik, have your go.
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2019, 11:00:29 AM »

Again, this is not about whether or not Guerrero is here five years from now, it's about whether or not he's playing for cheap 5 years from now(and it won't even be that much cheaper if he's as good as we all hope as he is).

Basically this is being ok with the Jays intentionally making their team worse so they can save a few million bucks 5 years from now. If you're advocating for that, are you even a sports fan at that point?
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Offline Highlander

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 11:02:09 AM »
I don't actually think the amount of time/number of games matters much. It's hanging a big sign on the front door that says you're not worried about the outcome of the season if you're willing to lose even a single game to this.

Which is fair enough if that's the strategy given the way the league rewards failure but I absolutely think it's fine for fans, after being told not to care about the season, to check out until they can even pretend that they might be watching a winning ballclub.

This is basically how I see it. From the team's perspective, it makes perfect sense - they know they're not in the hunt for a playoff spot this season, so, why waste a season of team control on their best prospect if they save it so easily?

For the fans? It's a clear indicator this season is going to be a rough one in terms of the team's record. Having the best prospect in the game in the lineup from Day 1 might have made it more tolerable, but, now that it's clear the team is doing what it feels is best in the long-run (regardless of whether or not it actually is), I'm gonna stay home to watch the games, if I watch at all.
When there are so few expectations on this season, then any success will be met with pleasant optimism. Perhaps Strobro and Sani have career years, perhaps some of the new pitchers come in and do extremely well and our infield defence becomes far better than last in the league. So it's nice to have the pressure off and I for one am looking forward to seeing the new kidz on the block do there thing. Should be an interesting rebuild. Much better than trotting out overpaid oldsters, like Troy and Martin and trying to keep Bautista long after his best before date. Ok he was gone last year but boy the money we are paying not to have these guys!
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Offline Highlander

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2019, 11:05:17 AM »

Again, this is not about whether or not Guerrero is here five years from now, it's about whether or not he's playing for cheap 5 years from now(and it won't even be that much cheaper if he's as good as we all hope as he is).

Basically this is being ok with the Jays intentionally making their team worse so they can save a few million bucks 5 years from now. If you're advocating for that, are you even a sports fan at that point?
Did I hope the Leafs would tank to have an opportunity to get Matthews....Hell yes...does that make me "not a sports fan"?
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2019, 11:07:15 AM »

I literally just responded to the idea that this was similar to the 2016 Leafs season. Try to keep up.
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Offline Highlander

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2019, 11:13:33 AM »
I only advocated tanking to get Matthews as they were god awful anyway that year.  Once the had Matthews it was time to play.  You are advocating that keeping Vlad out for 3 weeks is a bad play and we can hopefully keep him 5 years down the road. Most of the rest of us see the wisdom of sitting him for 3 weeks. It just a philosophical disagreement where there is no defined right or wrong. So let's keep splitting hairs.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2019, 11:19:33 AM »

If people are seriously concerned with the team's ability to sign Guerrero as a pending UFA you might think they'd advocate the team looking to actively get on his good side rather than dicking him around for half a year plus the start to this year when he's clearly ready for the big leagues.

"Vladdy is a super important piece of our future that we hope can be convinced to stay here...so let's make sure the team jerks him around so he doesn't make serious money for as long as possible" is some next level dumb thinking.

Let's not forget that the 2016 tanking Maple Leafs brought Nylander up for some meaningless games so that he would be able to make big money sooner, rather than later.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline Deebo

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Re: 2019 Blue Jays General Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2019, 12:36:53 PM »
In other baseball news. Machado has agreed to join the Padres for 300M/10 Years