Author Topic: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock  (Read 4517 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mr grieves

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2019, 12:50:28 PM »
IF the relationship between the progressive, experimental GM and his less progressive, more stubborn coach deteriorates, I can see Dubas, at some point, doing what he did in the Soo, finding a coach with buy-in. Not this year, of course, but maybe next.

Which crossed my mind when I saw this:


The heck is this about? Muzzin is, pretty obviously, a lot better than Hainsey and Zaitsev, and yet he's not seeing icetime that reflects that. Is Babcock pressuring his GM to make another D acquisition, one who better fits his handedness preferences? Is he daring Dubas to Billy Beane him?


TMLfans.ca

Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2019, 12:50:28 PM »

Offline Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 11967
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2019, 01:06:02 PM »
I mean, Dubas has talked about inefficiencies and maximizing the talent and players you have.  It was pretty obviously a Dubas move to have Sparks and Holl on the roster, and look how Babcock has handled Holl.  Didn't even bother to try and find out if he could play, and now that he's sat out the entire season you can't play him at all.

Then, Dubas gets Muzzin to try and get a better top pairing, and take minutes away from Hainsey, so Babcock tries it out for 4-5 games and then goes back to Rielly-Hainsey and playing Hainsey huge minutes.

So I think there's a disconnect between what Dubas sees as an optimal lineup/strategy and what Babcock sees.  How long does a GM put up with a coach who goes against everything he's trying to accomplish?  If Babcock ultimately wins than Dubas can live with it.  If the Leafs get trounced in the first round again, and you still have guys like Hainsey and to a lesser extent Marleau playing out of their best roles, who do you blame?   

Offline CarltonTheBear

  • Administrator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24842
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2019, 01:28:17 PM »
The heck is this about? Muzzin is, pretty obviously, a lot better than Hainsey and Zaitsev, and yet he's not seeing icetime that reflects that. Is Babcock pressuring his GM to make another D acquisition, one who better fits his handedness preferences? Is he daring Dubas to Billy Beane him?

The only explanation is that Babs is using this time to get Muzzin adjusted to the team/see where he fits best. If he isn't clearly getting top 2/3 ice-time later in March and through the playoffs then yeah I'd seriously question what exactly is going on there.

Offline Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 11967
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2019, 01:31:57 PM »
The heck is this about? Muzzin is, pretty obviously, a lot better than Hainsey and Zaitsev, and yet he's not seeing icetime that reflects that. Is Babcock pressuring his GM to make another D acquisition, one who better fits his handedness preferences? Is he daring Dubas to Billy Beane him?

The only explanation is that Babs is using this time to get Muzzin adjusted to the team/see where he fits best. If he isn't clearly getting top 2/3 ice-time later in March and through the playoffs then yeah I'd seriously question what exactly is going on there.

It's not just that though.   Why does he still have Marleau playing with Matthews despite all the evidence that Marleau just isn't working there and actually drives the line results down?
Why does he not play Matthews more minutes in games despite the fact Matthews is the premier scoring center in the league?  There's a lot of whys with Babcock's decisions and never really any good answers from him.   As a GM, if your coach isn't on the same page with you, and constantly does things that are counter productive to how you view the team's roster and ability you're going to have to make a tough decision at some point.  Like I said, if it all works out and Babcock gets them to a long playoff run this season then he can proven right in his decisions, if not...

Offline CarltonTheBear

  • Administrator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 24842
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2019, 01:34:32 PM »
It's not just that though.   Why does he still have Marleau playing with Matthews despite all the evidence that Marleau just isn't working there and actually drives the line results down?

Well I was specifically commenting on a post about Muzzin so it was just that. But yes, Marleau's usage is also a (separate) issue. One that I don't have an explanation for.

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2019, 01:36:58 PM »
IF the relationship between the progressive, experimental GM and his less progressive, more stubborn coach deteriorates, I can see Dubas, at some point, doing what he did in the Soo, finding a coach with buy-in. Not this year, of course, but maybe next.

Which crossed my mind when I saw this:


The heck is this about? Muzzin is, pretty obviously, a lot better than Hainsey and Zaitsev, and yet he's not seeing icetime that reflects that. Is Babcock pressuring his GM to make another D acquisition, one who better fits his handedness preferences? Is he daring Dubas to Billy Beane him?
A lot of statistical facts about Babcock's deployment of players is troublesome. This is a shocking statistic. Do you think Dubas had this deployment in mind when he acquired Muzzin? Babcock really needs to get out of the teams way and let his best play. I am starting to seriously question his ability. Stack three lines, play the best the most and don't chase matchups when you're so damn deep. If I was Dubas maybe I force the issue by trading one of Brown or Hyman or Gauthier or Hainsey. Who are you going to play now?
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2019, 01:39:55 PM »
Dubas sure as hell didn't hire Babcock either.
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 11967
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2019, 01:42:41 PM »
IF the relationship between the progressive, experimental GM and his less progressive, more stubborn coach deteriorates, I can see Dubas, at some point, doing what he did in the Soo, finding a coach with buy-in. Not this year, of course, but maybe next.

Which crossed my mind when I saw this:


The heck is this about? Muzzin is, pretty obviously, a lot better than Hainsey and Zaitsev, and yet he's not seeing icetime that reflects that. Is Babcock pressuring his GM to make another D acquisition, one who better fits his handedness preferences? Is he daring Dubas to Billy Beane him?
A lot of statistical facts about Babcock's deployment of players is troublesome. This is a shocking statistic. Do you think Dubas had this deployment in mind when he acquired Muzzin? Babcock really needs to get out of the teams way and let his best play. I am starting to seriously question his ability. Stack three lines, play the best the most and don't chase matchups when you're so damn deep. If I was Dubas maybe I force the issue by trading one of Brown or Hyman or Gauthier or Hainsey. Who are you going to play now?

I mean, ultimately the coach has to answer to the GM.  It's not even a matter of Dubas having to take Babcock's "toys" away.  What does it say about a coach if you talk to him behind the scenes, give him your idea and vision about how the team should play, and he just ignores everything you've told him and does it his way?  I'm sure Dubas and Babcock have daily conversations about the state of the team, the deployment of players etc.  If Babcock keeps insisting he's the coach and his way will work, then he's responsible if it doesn't work.   People keep thinking Babcock is untouchable because he has 4 years left on his contract, I don't buy that for one minute.  If Dubas feels a change is needed he'll make that call, and then he's the one on the hot seat going forward.   Both Dubas and Babcock are strong in their convictions, but one of them is the boss.

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2019, 01:46:21 PM »
IF the relationship between the progressive, experimental GM and his less progressive, more stubborn coach deteriorates, I can see Dubas, at some point, doing what he did in the Soo, finding a coach with buy-in. Not this year, of course, but maybe next.

Which crossed my mind when I saw this:


The heck is this about? Muzzin is, pretty obviously, a lot better than Hainsey and Zaitsev, and yet he's not seeing icetime that reflects that. Is Babcock pressuring his GM to make another D acquisition, one who better fits his handedness preferences? Is he daring Dubas to Billy Beane him?
This ice time graphic has seriously pissed me off. No one on the planet can explain this one to me. Babcock, in fact, is having a negative impact on this teams performance.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 01:52:26 PM by cabber24 »
Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline cabber24

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1969
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2019, 02:07:28 PM »
Here's my prediction for the playoffs:

Starting Lineup

Marleau Matthew Kappi
Hyman Tavares Marner
Brown Kadri Nylander
Johnsson and who cares, ain't playing

Roll three lines, Brown and Hyman lead all forwards in ice time, lose 2 of 3 games.

Lines "reshuffled" back to the beginning of time lines.

Marleau Matthews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Brown Kadri Kappi
Johnsson who cares, ain't playing

Win one, lose one. Still rolling 3 evenly.

Lines shuffled again (to late bud)

Kappi Matthews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnsson Kadri Maleau
Brown Who cares, ain't playing

Play the first two lines a lot win one and lose one, series lost. Bab's defaults to his best lineup too late because he's an idiot.

Upon the wicked He will rain Jerseys; blue and white and burning waffles will be the portion of their cup.

Offline Guilt Trip

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 3317
  • CarltonTheBear was...
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2019, 02:28:53 PM »
Here's my prediction for the playoffs:

Starting Lineup

Marleau Matthew Kappi
Hyman Tavares Marner
Brown Kadri Nylander
Johnsson and who cares, ain't playing

Roll three lines, Brown and Hyman lead all forwards in ice time, lose 2 of 3 games.

Lines "reshuffled" back to the beginning of time lines.

Marleau Matthews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Brown Kadri Kappi
Johnsson who cares, ain't playing

Win one, lose one. Still rolling 3 evenly.

Lines shuffled again (to late bud)

Kappi Matthews Nylander
Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnsson Kadri Maleau
Brown Who cares, ain't playing

Play the first two lines a lot win one and lose one, series lost. Bab's defaults to his best lineup too late because he's an idiot.


Hahaha...that's gold..Good laugh at your post..thx.
As for the ice-time thing, Dubas will end up taking his toys away again either by trade deadline or over the summer. I can see him trading both Brown and Hyman away. Hyman is good and all but his lack of offence doesn't justify his contract. Same with Brown. We have 2 guys, may cost a little more, to replace them in Kappy and Johnsson and our 4th line will have Moore and a Marchment(pick em Marlie). Hainsey's contract is done so I don't see them bringing him back. I think he'll try to move Zaitsev also.

Offline OldTimeHockey

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2446
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2019, 04:44:47 PM »
And the "coach sucks" brigade is out in full force today. It feels like Randy all over again.

Offline Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 11967
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2019, 05:45:14 PM »
And the "coach sucks" brigade is out in full force today. It feels like Randy all over again.


Randy did suck though

Offline mr grieves

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2019, 06:29:43 PM »
And the "coach sucks" brigade is out in full force today. It feels like Randy all over again.

Not me. I was just observing that, on the one hand, Dubas has spent valuable assets to bring in a guy for the top pair & to push Hainsey down the line-up and, on the other, the coach seems not to want to use the player there & is keeping Hainsey in the top pair. Maybe that'll change, but, right now, it looks like the GM and coach have pretty different ideas about personnel. At some point, that might be a problem!

Offline Bates

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1719
    • View Profile
Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2019, 06:47:39 PM »
I've been bothered for awhile that Babcock seems to want too much to be the guy who makes it happen rather than just a part of the success. Some things are as obvious as the nose on your face to everyone but Babcock.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2019, 06:47:39 PM »