Author Topic: Nylander signs 6-year contract  (Read 14697 times)

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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #300 on: January 03, 2019, 09:08:58 AM »
He hasn't been 17/18 Nylander yet but the fact that his possession and some other numbers are still so strong is encouraging. He's not at peak performance and the points aren't there, but both those things will come. Let's not forget that Marner had some long stretches of little-to-no points in the first half of last season and he still ended up alright. He had a 10 game stretch where he was pointless in 9 of them and later a 12 game stretch where he was pointless in 10 of them.

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #300 on: January 03, 2019, 09:08:58 AM »

Offline Frycer14

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #301 on: January 03, 2019, 10:20:14 AM »
How about placing a meaningful bar for us plebs instead of celebrating zone entries.

For the balance of the regular season, how many points constitutes fair value for a $6.9M cap hit?

Offline Bates

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #302 on: January 03, 2019, 10:44:34 AM »
How about placing a meaningful bar for us plebs instead of celebrating zone entries.

For the balance of the regular season, how many points constitutes fair value for a $6.9M cap hit?

If I understand right points aren't as important as analytics???

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #303 on: January 03, 2019, 10:45:58 AM »
For the balance of the regular season, how many points constitutes fair value for a $6.9M cap hit?

There's really no reason to judge a long-term contract based on how year 1 goes. But going somewhat off of that, last season after January 1st Nylander recorded 33 points in 42 games. Assuming he's getting close to full-speed soon I'll be happy if he eclipses that benchmark.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #304 on: January 03, 2019, 10:49:16 AM »
If I understand right points aren't as important as analytics???

I mean, yeah.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #305 on: January 03, 2019, 11:05:48 AM »

I really don't get the ongoing thing here. I get some people think that by puffing out their chest and getting mad at slumping players they consider themselves to be holding players accountable or whatever but everyone wants Nylander to score, there's really no way to force it and he's playing well enough that benching him would neither help Nylander or the team.

So if Nylander doesn't hit some sort of arbitrary standard for good value then what?
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
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Offline WAYNEINIONA

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #306 on: January 03, 2019, 11:15:57 AM »

I really don't get the ongoing thing here. I get some people think that by puffing out their chest and getting mad at slumping players they consider themselves to be holding players accountable or whatever but everyone wants Nylander to score, there's really no way to force it and he's playing well enough that benching him would neither help Nylander or the team.

So if Nylander doesn't hit some sort of arbitrary standard for good value then what?
Then the Toronto fans and press run him out of town like they have with so many others.

Offline Highlander

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #307 on: January 03, 2019, 11:19:34 AM »
Don't think that's going to happen with Babs at the helm, he protects his players and that is why guys like Tavares are coming home. Nylander is going to be fine and all this talk will disappear like dust.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #308 on: January 03, 2019, 11:21:52 AM »
Here's a timely article I suggest checking out: https://mapleleafsnation.com/2019/01/03/the-leafs-have-been-much-better-with-william-nylander-in-the-lineup/

Quote
You may have heard that William Nylander has been in a slump since he returned to the Leafs just less than a month ago. In that time he hasn’t found the back of the net once, and has just two assists through 11 games played. Because of that, people are freaking out, going as far as saying he should have been traded instead of signed, all that kind of stuff.

Toronto fans going insane? Nah, couldn’t be.

Anyway, while Nylander’s offensive struggles have started to make headlines, going as far as teammates having to declare they’ll do anything to help him find twine, it’s worth looking at how the Leafs have done as a team since he’s come back into the fold. There’s a spoiler here: They’re good.

Offline herman

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #309 on: January 03, 2019, 11:35:32 AM »
Just another note regarding points vs analytics, if that's what the contention is for some.
It's a false dichotomy as analytics are simply studying game events that contribute to the generation of points averaged out on a more consistent, normalized manner.

The Points Pipeline:
Goals <-- Shots on Net <-- Shot Attempts <-- Puck Possession in OZ <-- Puck Possession in NZ <-- DZ exits

At this point in the game, there aren't any publicly available League generated stats beyond shot attempts, so that is the best proxy for all the events leading up to it.

As anyone who has ever counted coin flips before can tell you, it takes a good number of flips to get that 50/50 split between heads and tails, so it takes a larger sample size of events to get stable numbers (true performance). In the points pipeline, the sample size of goals is minuscule per game compared to everything that comes before it (2 goals off 28 shots on net from 78 shot attempts for example), so it is not a stable measure until you get a quarter to a full seasons worth of games. If you're measuring just an individual player, it's a season+ because while a team may be on the ice for a full game, no individual player is.

And if you're a good coach, or manager, and you understand the above, then you know the focus for each individual player has to be on maximizing what he himself can control, and eventually the results will emerge consistently.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #310 on: January 03, 2019, 12:01:29 PM »
The current crop of analytics is a huge step up from Stone Age stats like +/-.  But it will soon be far surpassed by a whole suite of real-time-tracked movement stats for every skater on the ice.  You can be sure that a system like this, https://wisehockey.com/, now being rolled out in Finland, will be adopted and adapted by the NHL (probably on its own proprietary basis).

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #311 on: January 03, 2019, 12:10:42 PM »
The current crop of analytics is a huge step up from Stone Age stats like +/-.  But it will soon be far surpassed by a whole suite of real-time-tracked movement stats for every skater on the ice.  You can be sure that a system like this, https://wisehockey.com/, now being rolled out in Finland, will be adopted and adapted by the NHL (probably on its own proprietary basis).

This stuff is going to be cool and all sure and I'm sure there will be some useful information but I also think a lot of it is just going to be filler/noise. Knowing a players heart rate at all times or how fast he passes the puck really isn't going to tell us which players help a team win the most.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #312 on: January 03, 2019, 12:21:49 PM »
The current crop of analytics is a huge step up from Stone Age stats like +/-.  But it will soon be far surpassed by a whole suite of real-time-tracked movement stats for every skater on the ice.  You can be sure that a system like this, https://wisehockey.com/, now being rolled out in Finland, will be adopted and adapted by the NHL (probably on its own proprietary basis).

This stuff is going to be cool and all sure and I'm sure there will be some useful information but I also think a lot of it is just going to be filler/noise. Knowing a players heart rate at all times or how fast he passes the puck really isn't going to tell us which players help a team win the most.

They'll refine it.  Sure, some of the first-gen stuff is gee-whiz filler, but it's the movement tracking that will be the foundation for real advances.  Animated representations of shifts that can be fed into databases for visualization comparisons, for ex, will give us actual pictures of what the most successful shifts look like.  Then, as coaches begin to work with that, and react to it, new strategies will develop.  Etc. etc.

Offline Frycer14

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #313 on: January 03, 2019, 12:22:23 PM »
So if Nylander doesn't hit some sort of arbitrary standard for good value then what?

It's interesting, in the 400,000 post thread about Nylander prior to the signing, points per game was an entirely relevant statistic brought up countless times for Nylander's comps.

Now, it's an aribitrary standard.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #314 on: January 03, 2019, 12:29:55 PM »
It's interesting, in the 400,000 post thread about Nylander prior to the signing, points per game was an entirely relevant statistic brought up countless times for Nylander's comps.

Now, it's an aribitrary standard.

The difference between "good value" and "not good value" is arbitrary if based on PPG unless you've got some sort of line on a definitive objective standard that's somewhat unavoidable.

If nothing else, you'd think the 400,000 pages might have impressed on you that there is no agreed upon standard by which Nylander's point totals represented an amount of money he should be paid.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #314 on: January 03, 2019, 12:29:55 PM »