Author Topic: Nylander signs 6-year contract  (Read 13625 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2018, 02:48:34 PM »
This was more as a point of comparison to some of the other RFAs that didn’t quite go the distance with their GMs.

Right, and I'm saying that I don't think any of them signed because of the money, or lack thereof, in the bank when compared to Nylander.
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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2018, 02:48:34 PM »

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #136 on: December 02, 2018, 03:20:53 PM »
It looks like the average game day thread is about 8 pages.  If that’s true, we’ve spent ~200 pages writing about games.  I can’t find the other Nylander thread but it was up to 150 pages perhaps?  So with 10 more here we are ~160?  ~200 vs ~160 is kind of ridiculous. Thank god it is over.
150 pages?? Gameday threads are only 2 or 3 pages. You do know you can adjust the number of responses per page right? Default is 15, max is 50. Makes for a lot less clicking....just saying.
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #137 on: December 02, 2018, 04:18:36 PM »
This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

Why wouldn't it have gotten done?  The dynamics are exactly the same ... so long as Dubas (or whomever) makes it clear to the agent/player that it is a hard deadline.  Of course if the manager isn't committed to that, it doesn't make sense.

Because it's pretty obvious that Nylander's camp wasn't ready to deal until it came down to the wire, if what Dubas said about Nylander calling him is to be believed.

Any kind of internal deadline is just nonsense from the other side of the table. If Nylander's camp called back at the exact same time they did yesterday and said "Let's make a deal" and Dubas was like "nope sorry deadline is passed" then that would be the real failure because the only deadline that passed was the made up one that doesn't mean anything.

It's not nonsense if it's enforced.  That's what makes any deadline mean something.  If he'd set an earlier deadline and stuck to it, what's the difference?  The difference is that he would have had time to trade Nylander, if he he wanted. 

Think of it like this.  What if the metaphorical fax machine had gone down at 4:50p?  Say, a fire alarm goes off in the hotel, the power goes out, the cell connection or web or whatever goes down.  Today we'd be reading stories about how Dubas blew it, and he would have.  He, not Nylander's camp, controls the contract process.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #138 on: December 02, 2018, 04:21:05 PM »
This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.


No matter what Dubas and company told Lewis Gross about their deadline, it's human nature for Gross to think "sure, they SAY the deadline is 1pm but if we come back at them at 4:30 I'm sure they'll still move"

And he's not wrong in that thinking.  If at 1pm Dubas says "the deal is 6.8 take it or leave it" and at 4:30 Gross comes back with 6.9 are you going to say no over 100k?

It's a moot point because I would have traded him by then, and I would have let Gross know that at 1pm.  :)

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #139 on: December 02, 2018, 04:22:52 PM »
It's nonsense because it's arbitrary. It's a line drawn in the sand purely out of ego.

Going down to the wire isn't really a risk like it was in the stone ages of fax machines. Probably it was a simple phone call to the league office to say "we have a deal in place." More likely, the deal was already at the office and they just had to say "done."

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #140 on: December 02, 2018, 04:24:17 PM »
It's nonsense because it's arbitrary. It's a line drawn in the sand purely out of ego.

Going down to the wire isn't really a risk like it was in the stone ages of fax machines. Probably it was a simple phone call to the league office to say "we have a deal in place." More likely, the deal was already at the office and they just had to say "done."

Not out of ego -- to give yourself options.  Far from arbitrary.  And you missed it, the phones went down in the hypothetical.

Offline TML fan

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #141 on: December 02, 2018, 04:27:45 PM »
This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

Why wouldn't it have gotten done?  The dynamics are exactly the same ... so long as Dubas (or whomever) makes it clear to the agent/player that it is a hard deadline.  Of course if the manager isn't committed to that, it doesn't make sense.

Because it's pretty obvious that Nylander's camp wasn't ready to deal until it came down to the wire, if what Dubas said about Nylander calling him is to be believed.

Any kind of internal deadline is just nonsense from the other side of the table. If Nylander's camp called back at the exact same time they did yesterday and said "Let's make a deal" and Dubas was like "nope sorry deadline is passed" then that would be the real failure because the only deadline that passed was the made up one that doesn't mean anything.

It's not nonsense if it's enforced.  That's what makes any deadline mean something.  If he'd set an earlier deadline and stuck to it, what's the difference?  The difference is that he would have had time to trade Nylander, if he he wanted. 

Think of it like this.  What if the metaphorical fax machine had gone down at 4:50p?  Say, a fire alarm goes off in the hotel, the power goes out, the cell connection or web or whatever goes down.  Today we'd be reading stories about how Dubas blew it, and he would have.  He, not Nylander's camp, controls the contract process.

Setting a deadline like that is a negotiating tactic and puts undue pressure on the player's camp to get a deal done before it needs to be. If a deal can get done under the wire, then all you're doing is moving the wire.

It seems like a great idea for the team but it would suck for the player. It seems to me that Dubas' process was to not be unnecessarily antagonistic, which is what this idea is.


Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #142 on: December 02, 2018, 04:33:53 PM »
This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

Why wouldn't it have gotten done?  The dynamics are exactly the same ... so long as Dubas (or whomever) makes it clear to the agent/player that it is a hard deadline.  Of course if the manager isn't committed to that, it doesn't make sense.

Because it's pretty obvious that Nylander's camp wasn't ready to deal until it came down to the wire, if what Dubas said about Nylander calling him is to be believed.

Any kind of internal deadline is just nonsense from the other side of the table. If Nylander's camp called back at the exact same time they did yesterday and said "Let's make a deal" and Dubas was like "nope sorry deadline is passed" then that would be the real failure because the only deadline that passed was the made up one that doesn't mean anything.

It's not nonsense if it's enforced.  That's what makes any deadline mean something.  If he'd set an earlier deadline and stuck to it, what's the difference?  The difference is that he would have had time to trade Nylander, if he he wanted. 

Think of it like this.  What if the metaphorical fax machine had gone down at 4:50p?  Say, a fire alarm goes off in the hotel, the power goes out, the cell connection or web or whatever goes down.  Today we'd be reading stories about how Dubas blew it, and he would have.  He, not Nylander's camp, controls the contract process.

Setting a deadline like that is a negotiating tactic and puts undue pressure on the player's camp to get a deal done before it needs to be. If a deal can get done under the wire, then all you're doing is moving the wire.

It seems like a great idea for the team but it would suck for the player. It seems to me that Dubas' process was to not be unnecessarily antagonistic, which is what this idea is.

I suppose if you set the deadline at July 15 or whatever it would be undue pressure.  I can't see how one anytime in recent days could be construed that way.

Offline TML fan

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #143 on: December 02, 2018, 04:35:37 PM »
Because you're forcing their hand before it needs to be forced.

Offline Rob

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #144 on: December 02, 2018, 04:44:13 PM »
It looks like the average game day thread is about 8 pages.  If that’s true, we’ve spent ~200 pages writing about games.  I can’t find the other Nylander thread but it was up to 150 pages perhaps?  So with 10 more here we are ~160?  ~200 vs ~160 is kind of ridiculous. Thank god it is over.

Over? HA! We're just getting started.  Marner, Matthews, Kapanen. 

Offline princedpw

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #145 on: December 02, 2018, 04:47:39 PM »
It looks like the average game day thread is about 8 pages.  If that’s true, we’ve spent ~200 pages writing about games.  I can’t find the other Nylander thread but it was up to 150 pages perhaps?  So with 10 more here we are ~160?  ~200 vs ~160 is kind of ridiculous. Thank god it is over.
150 pages?? Gameday threads are only 2 or 3 pages. You do know you can adjust the number of responses per page right? Default is 15, max is 50. Makes for a lot less clicking....just saying.
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Offline princedpw

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #146 on: December 02, 2018, 04:51:02 PM »
A win-win deal pulled out of a lose-lose situation.

Sounds like a good succinct summary to me.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #147 on: December 02, 2018, 05:12:54 PM »
It's nonsense because it's arbitrary. It's a line drawn in the sand purely out of ego.

Going down to the wire isn't really a risk like it was in the stone ages of fax machines. Probably it was a simple phone call to the league office to say "we have a deal in place." More likely, the deal was already at the office and they just had to say "done."

Not out of ego -- to give yourself options.  Far from arbitrary.  And you missed it, the phones went down in the hypothetical.

It's arbitrary if they say "sign by this time or we move on". These lines are simply not drawn. They may have an internal line where they decide to pursue other options, but continuing to negotiate with the player will always be one of those options.

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #148 on: December 02, 2018, 06:57:25 PM »
Oh and forgot this, once you see what Marner will get (even with the home discount), this deal will look like a steal.  Matthews will be in for 12-13 for sure.

Put the cap at $84m next year.
Marleau's 6.25 = 7.4%
Willy N's 6.69 =    8%
Tavares's 11m = 13.1%
Marner's 9.5m* = 11.3%
Auston's 12.5m = 14.9%

That's almost 55% of the cap tied up in 5 forwards, one of whom isn't really a good top 6 option anymore...

While I agree Willy might not be top 6 on this Leafs team, I think we should actually let him play a game this season before making such bold proclamations.

Online herman

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #149 on: December 02, 2018, 08:40:08 PM »
https://theathletic.com/688914/2018/12/02/lebrun-which-side-won-the-nylander-deal-nhl-executives-and-agents-on-the-impact-on-the-market/

Quote
“Short term it was good for both, but the (July 2, 2019) bonus makes me think we may see a trade after that is paid,” said an Eastern Conference team executive on Sunday.

I'm guessing Dorion or Tallon here.

Yes, this means Nylander's front-loaded deal means a lower actual payout in the back half relative to the cap hit, which is highly attractive to budget teams, but I see this as a concession to Nylander signing to an average dollar amount barely under 7M. Money today is worth more than tomorrow and all that. Similar to the Tavares deal, the heavy signing bonus has more earning potential to offset the lowered cap hit.

I suspect Matthews will get something signing bonus heavy as well to entice a mid-season signing, well inadvance of the new CBA which will most assuredly want to curtail this advantage.

I like the 6 year term as well -- not so much for how much the Leafs have to spend on the follow-up, but because when they extend Willy again, he'll just be 28. Another six year deal would still be south of 35 years old, and Nylander doesn't play a style conducive to the kind of wear and tear that would shorten a career. Michael Nylander played NHL hockey until 35ish and played another decade+ of European league hockey.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 08:49:18 PM by herman »

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Re: Nylander signs 6-year contract
« Reply #149 on: December 02, 2018, 08:40:08 PM »