Author Topic: Ranking Prospects 2018-19  (Read 17234 times)

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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2018, 11:21:21 AM »
So so far, neither Hunter or Dubas have shown to be draft gurus exactly. The problem is the media won't shut up about calling one of them that and it's completely unfounded at this point.

One of the constant realities of the Shanahan era has been some media types, and resultingly a lot of fans, wanting to give people credit for things that had yet to happen.
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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2018, 11:21:21 AM »

Offline Bender

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2018, 11:55:22 AM »
20. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev

This is a pretty big debut for a freshly drafted non-first rounder.
Maybe they just like his taking over for JVR. SDA!
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2018, 01:21:01 PM »
So so far, neither Hunter or Dubas have shown to be draft gurus exactly. The problem is the media won't shut up about calling one of them that and it's completely unfounded at this point.

I think that was my point...these people falling over each other trying to anoint either one of these guys is premature at best, wrong at worst.

One of the constant realities of the Shanahan era has been some media types, and resultingly a lot of fans, wanting to give people credit for things that had yet to happen.

Isn't sports media incentivized to take a stand one way or another? Wait and see doesn't generate attention/clicks the way being right (or being super wrong) does.

Online herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2018, 09:35:33 AM »
19. Eemeli Räsänen

Räsänen just fell off the bottom of my rankings, but that part of the list is a crapshoot from 12 down, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. He's closer to the bottom end for me because I don't think he thinks the game very well and largely gets by with being... large (he really likes to hit, to the detriment of his responsibilities). But he plays the coveted RD position and is not a terribad skater, and that 6'7" height and reach is not nothing in that position.

He's going to be playing in the KHL this season so it'll be a bit of out-of-sight; out-of-mind in terms of tracking his progress. Playing up in a pro league might hold him in better stead with more structure to simplify decision-making.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:39:02 AM by herman »

Offline Frank E

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #109 on: August 08, 2018, 09:47:31 AM »
So so far, neither Hunter or Dubas have shown to be draft gurus exactly. The problem is the media won't shut up about calling one of them that and it's completely unfounded at this point.

I think that was my point...these people falling over each other trying to anoint either one of these guys is premature at best, wrong at worst.

One of the constant realities of the Shanahan era has been some media types, and resultingly a lot of fans, wanting to give people credit for things that had yet to happen.

Isn't sports media incentivized to take a stand one way or another? Wait and see doesn't generate attention/clicks the way being right (or being super wrong) does.

I guess I see it differently.

I think it's the Leafs' job to send out the press releases and tell everyone how awesome the players they drafted are, and how great things look for the future, and you should pay super high dollars to see our product.

I think it's the sports media's job to sift through that BS, and really comment on the realities of the current state of affairs and the future prospects. 

I think some of the media people are doing the opposite, and really painting Dubas and the Leafs moves/draft picks as being superior without any evidence.  And this is interesting to me, because this Toronto sports media was traditionally seen as critical of everything.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #110 on: August 08, 2018, 09:58:35 AM »
Isn't sports media incentivized to take a stand one way or another? Wait and see doesn't generate attention/clicks the way being right (or being super wrong) does.

To the extent that all media is incentivized towards hot takes and sensationalism, sure. It's still, you know, dumb.
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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #111 on: August 08, 2018, 10:09:28 AM »
I think it's the sports media's job to sift through that BS, and really comment on the realities of the current state of affairs and the future prospects. 

I think some of the media people are doing the opposite, and really painting Dubas and the Leafs moves/draft picks as being superior without any evidence.  And this is interesting to me, because this Toronto sports media was traditionally seen as critical of everything.

You're such a romantic :) The media has done the same for the beginning of every regime change, and then after the honeymoon period the knives come out at the first sign of distress. Perhaps you're reacting more to the blogosphere side of Toronto sports media, because they see Dubas as doing all the things they've been telling the old front offices to do and also doing things they didn't think of (whether it works or not, but at least trying). There are definitely some MSM members who initially bemoaned Dubas' anointing especially at the cost of the more traditional Lou/Hunter combo, but they've quieted significantly with the Calder Cup and Tavares news.

To the extent that all media is incentivized towards hot takes and sensationalism, sure. It's still, you know, dumb.

Which is why discussion boards like these (and twitter/reddit/facebook moreso) exist, right? It's not just media though: some of our best discussions here unfortunately spawned from really bad takes that were doubled down on for months.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #112 on: August 08, 2018, 10:16:03 AM »
Which is why discussion boards like these (and twitter/reddit/facebook moreso) exist, right? It's not just media though: some of our best discussions here unfortunately spawned from really bad takes that were doubled down on for months.

I've never really thought of the purpose of a place like this to be to fact check the media, even if media criticism is a part of what we inevitably discuss. We can still expect more from the people paid to write and talk about this stuff.

But again, there's a wide range of difference between a bad or wrong take and what I'm talking about. Saying in February that the Leafs wouldn't sign Tavares or whatever was wrong, sure, and saying that they would or might was more correct. Saying that they should already get the credit for having done it though is bordering on the insane.
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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #113 on: August 08, 2018, 10:24:51 AM »
Which is why discussion boards like these (and twitter/reddit/facebook moreso) exist, right? It's not just media though: some of our best discussions here unfortunately spawned from really bad takes that were doubled down on for months.

I've never really thought of the purpose of a place like this to be to fact check the media, even if media criticism is a part of what we inevitably discuss. We can still expect more from the people paid to write and talk about this stuff.

I don't disagree here; at the same time, who is in charge of what you read and listen to?

Saying that they should already get the credit for having done it though is bordering on the insane.

Again, I don't disagree. Are we still talking about Hofford's hyperbole here, or more of a general zeitgeist thing? If it is about Hofford's comment about the team being on the verge of winning a Cup, I'd argue that was his accurate assessment of what most of the Leafs front office/players believed, just based off the moves they did/did not make. I am crossing up threads here.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #114 on: August 08, 2018, 10:37:09 AM »
I don't disagree here; at the same time, who is in charge of what you read and listen to?

I think that's a more complicated question than you think, especially now that there's massive overlap between people who are ostensibly the critical media and game coverage. Someone out there may not like a Damian Cox or Elliotte Friedman or whoever but if they're just consuming the games themselves or watching Sportsnet generally they're bound to hear from all manner of people that they may not personally hold in high regard. It's one of the many thorny issues in wrapping up rights-holders and analysis in one(or two) conglomerates.

But even in the pre-internet age I think that being a savvy media consumer in a local market meant paying attention to things even if they weren't necessarily in your wheel house. Reading Cox or Strachan might not have been your cup of tea but being a Leafs-focused columnist at one of the city's dailies was a big deal and their opinions informed and often created the discussion around the team. Besides, if you were reading the paper you may as well read the whole damn paper.

I realize that the modern trend is to be selective in the media you consume to the point that you only see/read/hear the people you like or who do their jobs the way you approve of but I think that sort of devalues the communal nature of being a sports fan.

Again, I don't disagree. Are we still talking about Hofford's hyperbole here, or more of a general zeitgeist thing?

I was making sort of a separate point about something I've seen a lot of since Shanahan took over that I don't really think we saw before.
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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #115 on: August 08, 2018, 10:47:28 AM »
I hope you don't mind, Nik, that I've pushed the response to the above into the media thread; I think it's a very interesting discussion but lacking in prospect rankings.

Online Highlander

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #116 on: August 08, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »
yes Rasanen has been hijacked
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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #117 on: August 09, 2018, 09:21:30 AM »
18. Sean Durzi

He's basically a rover.

His draft year was hampered by discovering he had Os Trigonum Syndrome that required surgical correction and subsequent rehab that led to him sitting at the 2017 draft through 7 rounds. Getting drafted by his hometown team the following year was his reward for the breakout season he followed up that disappointment with.

Dubas invited him to the 2017-18 dev camp and wanted to sign him, but didn't have the contract space at the time.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:57:37 AM by herman »

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2018, 09:18:41 AM »
17. Jeremy Bracco

Braccooooooooo!

He got the rookie treatment, but also started the season on the wrong foot with a bout of mono over the summer (Mitchy, what you doing?). He does have a bit of a hill to climb in order to make it to the Leafs as he occupies the same niche as Marner and Nylander, and Brown and Kapanen offer complementary benefits. A reality of the cap era is that decent to good wingers will need to be shed as they climb the pay scale, so options like Bracco (and Grundstrom, Korshkov, etc.) will eventually find roster space, or be spun off for assets in niches of need.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2018, 10:50:58 AM »

FWIW, I thought Bracco might have been the answer to that question WIGWAL put out in the armchair GM thread.
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Re: Ranking Prospects 2018-19
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2018, 10:50:58 AM »