Author Topic: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread  (Read 22383 times)

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Offline sickbeast

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2018, 08:19:02 PM »
I guess AA won executive of the year for no reason then. You guys must be right. You know more. Not!

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2018, 08:28:21 PM »
I guess AA won executive of the year for no reason then. You guys must be right. You know more. Not!
I will never forgive him for the Syndergaard deal. Even a monkey could tell that was a horrible deal. They had a couple of good short term runs but so what? It wasn't sustainable, which should be painfully obvious now.
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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2018, 08:28:21 PM »

Offline Joe S.

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2018, 09:36:42 PM »
I'm not defending AA here - and I'm not backing this up really - but I don't those flury of moves that were made in 2015 set this team back. If none of those moves were made which one of those players would be helping this team out today?

In my opinion the issue is that the jays have been absolute garbage at drafting position players. Since wells, Delgado and green who really has been a significant hitter for this team? AA made some goofball moves, but I don't blame him for pushing all his chips in that season. I mean if he hadn't we'd be at 25 straight years with no post season.

Again this is off the top of my head. I didn't put any research into this.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2018, 10:25:17 PM »
I'm not defending AA here - and I'm not backing this up really - but I don't those flury of moves that were made in 2015 set this team back. If none of those moves were made which one of those players would be helping this team out today?

To me, it's less about those specific players helping the team today, but the fact they could have been moved later for pieces that were better long-term options or didn't come with a lengthy injury history. The team's depth of trade pieces was all but gone for playoff rentals and a guy who couldn't get into 100 games in two of the previous 3 seasons.

It's also not just to 2015 moves. The Dickey trade cost the team a guy who is now #1 starter, and the big trade with Florida didn't get the Leafs anywhere, either. Like I said, the only big move that really worked out well was the Donaldson trade.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:27:24 PM by bustaheims »
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2018, 10:51:10 PM »
I'm not defending AA here - and I'm not backing this up really - but I don't those flury of moves that were made in 2015 set this team back. If none of those moves were made which one of those players would be helping this team out today?

That seems a little unfair given how young most of the guys traded away are. I'd personally much rather see if Norris could straighten things out as our #5 guy than Biagini or Garcia though.

As other people have pointed out though it's not just those deals and regardless he turned a lot of valuable prospects into nothing that's helping the team now anyway.
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Offline sickbeast

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2018, 10:24:24 AM »
The Dickey trade was the one clearly bad trade AA made.  Considering how many moves he made that's not a bad track record IMO.  Plus it's easy to look back on the trade.  He was trading for the Cy Young award winning pitcher.  It wasn't a total bust either.  Dickey was a workhorse and an innings eater for the Jays.

I'm just really frustrated with the way Shapiro is running the team as a business currently.  He shouldn't have raised ticket prices two years in a row.  Raising ticket prices by 17% after a losing season is asinine.  The fans are going to turn on this team, wait and see.  It's the same legacy Shapiro and Atkins left in Cleveland.  They were losers there and they're losers here.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2018, 10:37:02 AM »
It seems like Shapiro and Atkins left the Indians in pretty good shape, all things considering.

edit: Also, fwiw, it seems pretty likely that any decision re: ticket prices would come from Rogers, not Shapiro.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 10:52:26 AM by Nik the Trik »
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Offline sickbeast

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2018, 11:07:32 AM »
It seems like Shapiro and Atkins left the Indians in pretty good shape, all things considering.

edit: Also, fwiw, it seems pretty likely that any decision re: ticket prices would come from Rogers, not Shapiro.
Cleveland was a ghost town while Shapiro and Atkins were there and they had a lousy team.  Their new GM made some nice moves such as signing Edwin.  Having Edwin instead of Morales sure would be nice right now.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2018, 11:08:41 AM »
edit: Also, fwiw, it seems pretty likely that any decision re: ticket prices would come from Rogers, not Shapiro.

Probably. Also, it's going to be pretty heavily influenced by the economic realities of trying to field a competitive team over the past few seasons - regardless of the success of the endeavour - and changes to economy as a whole. Prices aren't - and never have been - based on the team's actual on-field success. Nor should they be. You gotta have money to be successful, and you get that by keeping ticket prices lower because the team was bad.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2018, 11:12:18 AM »
Cleveland was a ghost town while Shapiro and Atkins were there and they had a lousy team.  Their new GM made some nice moves such as signing Edwin.  Having Edwin instead of Morales sure would be nice right now.

3 straight winning seasons before Shapiro left, but, sure, lousy team.

Also, Encarnacion and Andrew Miller are the only additions of any significance made by the new management. Their current team was very much built under Shapiro.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 11:16:21 AM by bustaheims »
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2018, 11:18:10 AM »
Cleveland was a ghost town while Shapiro and Atkins were there and they had a lousy team.  Their new GM made some nice moves such as signing Edwin.  Having Edwin instead of Morales sure would be nice right now.

When Shapiro was GM he traded for Kluber, signed Carrasco, signed Ramirez, drafted Kipnis and Cody Allen, signed Santana...basically built the spine of the deep, young contending team they've got now. Just about all of the parts(Lindor, for instance) that weren't added when Shapiro was GM would have been when Atkins was running their player division.

Or you could be arguing that Shapiro won Executive of the Year for no reason then. Twice.

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Offline Andy

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 11:27:03 AM »
Cleveland was a ghost town while Shapiro and Atkins were there and they had a lousy team.  Their new GM made some nice moves such as signing Edwin.  Having Edwin instead of Morales sure would be nice right now.

When Shapiro was GM he traded for Kluber, signed Carrasco, signed Ramirez, drafted Kipnis and Cody Allen, signed Santana...basically built the spine of the deep, young contending team they've got now. Just about all of the parts(Lindor, for instance) that weren't added when Shapiro was GM would have been when Atkins was running their player division.

Or you could be arguing that Shapiro won Executive of the Year for no reason then. Twice.




And with that the nail met the coffin to end the discussion for the unforeseeable future.

Offline sickbeast

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2018, 12:13:49 PM »
Fine guys, I admit Shapiro did ok in Cleveland but I'm not a fan of what he has done with the Jays.  I hope this season turns out ok for them but I can really see it going sideways fast and the attendance is going to plummet.  That means the payroll is going to have to drop and they Jays could effectively turn into a small market team.  The drought will continue.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2018, 12:37:18 PM »
Probably. Also, it's going to be pretty heavily influenced by the economic realities of trying to field a competitive team over the past few seasons - regardless of the success of the endeavour - and changes to economy as a whole. Prices aren't - and never have been - based on the team's actual on-field success. Nor should they be. You gotta have money to be successful, and you get that by keeping ticket prices lower because the team was bad.

Well, the Jays' financial realities are always going to be a little murky because we just won't know what they mean to Rogers through Sportsnet(I know they say they move a "competitive" broadcasting deal from one pocket to the other but???)

Even still though, it's pretty hard to imagine that a baseball, or at least player development guy, like Shapiro is out there deciding to raise ticket prices by himself. At best it's a direct order from above, at worst he knows Rogers wants the team to be more profitable. Whether Rogers' reasons are good or bad isn't up to him.
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Offline Captain Canuck

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Re: 2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2018, 06:43:08 PM »
Superman steals 3 bases in an inning! What a boss move!  8)

Oddly enough, the only American League players to do it since the Jays have been in existence are Paul Molitor, Devon White, and Chris Stynes. All are former Jays, just none of them accomplished the feat with the Jays.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 06:55:16 PM by Captain Canuck »