Author Topic: Armchair GM 2018-2019  (Read 50224 times)

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Offline cabber24

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #315 on: June 14, 2018, 03:39:12 PM »
So, no Bozak?


 ;)
Jason Spezza could be a decent C assuming he gets bought out?

Apparently, DUBINSKY is a buyout candidate as well.

I think either would be a decent replacement of Bozak and the term and dollars should be manageable.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 03:44:44 PM by cabber24 »
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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #316 on: June 15, 2018, 10:05:23 AM »

I'm not Gus, but I'm pretty sure I've said this thread before.
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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #316 on: June 15, 2018, 10:05:23 AM »

Offline Frank E

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #317 on: June 15, 2018, 12:22:38 PM »

I'm not Gus, but I'm pretty sure I've said this thread before.

I don't mean to be too critical here, but define "#3"...and then tell me how you accumulate 6 of them.

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #318 on: June 15, 2018, 01:22:10 PM »
I don't mean to be too critical here, but define "#3"...and then tell me how you accumulate 6 of them.

Good defensemen that aren't Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson-money can be drafted and developed quite readily without lottery picks. Dermott and Liljegren are projected for that range of potential and Liljegren has the ceiling to exceed it. Honestly, Zaitsev qualifies too (#4) and is only derided for the contract he was signed to. We're already sitting on Rielly and Gardiner who are on the upper end of that 2nd tier offensively.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #319 on: June 15, 2018, 01:52:06 PM »
I don't mean to be too critical here, but define "#3"...and then tell me how you accumulate 6 of them.

Good defensemen that aren't Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson-money can be drafted and developed quite readily without lottery picks. Dermott and Liljegren are projected for that range of potential and Liljegren has the ceiling to exceed it. Honestly, Zaitsev qualifies too (#4) and is only derided for the contract he was signed to. We're already sitting on Rielly and Gardiner who are on the upper end of that 2nd tier offensively.

I think there's a cap allocation program there though, right?

I mean, you can put $10m into a guy that plays 25 mins a night, and skimp on your bottom pairing.  But icing a corps of 6 X $4m-$5m puts you in ~$27m tied up in defense.

And this is exacerbated by the fact that this strategy has to include "putting your resources into high skill forwards", which then will mean more $$ tied up in forwards.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #320 on: June 15, 2018, 02:44:09 PM »

When has having a real Norris contender type ever been required to build a competitive team? The Leafs of the late 90's, early 2000's didn't have anyone like that and they were plenty competitive. Heck, all sorts of teams have had one-off deep playoff runs with downright mediocre defenses.

Competition, here we come.
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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #321 on: June 15, 2018, 02:51:08 PM »
I think there's a cap allocation program there though, right?

I mean, you can put $10m into a guy that plays 25 mins a night, and skimp on your bottom pairing.  But icing a corps of 6 X $4m-$5m puts you in ~$27m tied up in defense.

And this is exacerbated by the fact that this strategy has to include "putting your resources into high skill forwards", which then will mean more $$ tied up in forwards.

That's not untrue, but it's not like all 6 of them will be on their second/third contracts at the same time. It's most likely you'll be paying UFA level money for 1 or 2 (keepers), RFA contract money for 3-4, and ELC money for 1-2.
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #322 on: June 15, 2018, 03:01:01 PM »

There are even some notable cup winners. The '90 Oilers, '93 Canadiens, '04 Lightning, '06 Canes...
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #323 on: June 15, 2018, 03:30:54 PM »

There are even some notable cup winners. The '90 Oilers, '93 Canadiens, '04 Lightning, '06 Canes...

So once every 14 years or so.  Leafs are almost guaranteed to win it.
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #324 on: June 15, 2018, 03:43:40 PM »
So once every 14 years or so.  Leafs are almost guaranteed to win it.

Nah, there are other examples. The '96 Avs and '99 Stars depending on how you see Sandis Ozolinsh and Sergei Zubov. Then there's the '95 Devils where Niedermayer wasn't yet in his prime and Stevens was into the "World's Greatest #2D" phase of his career. Then you've got the first and third Crosby/Malkin cups.

Thing is you could probably make similar lists about any one thing in isolation. #1C or a superstar goalie...there have been a bunch of teams winning the Stanley Cup without them either. Teams can win a Stanley Cup with weaknesses but they usually have some crazy edge elsewhere to compensate whether it's multiple HOF level C's or all-time great goalies or what have you.

So it's not that it's not true, it's that it's true of everything. The idea behind targeting a #1C or #1D or whatever has never been that they were fundamental necessities for a certain level of success, but that you wanted to do whatever you could to increase your chances. Those are good things to have. Not having them requires something exceptional elsewhere.

The problem then becomes that we might remember the '06 Canes or '90 Oilers but we don't remember the 9 or 10 teams every year that were similarly flawed who didn't win the Cup. If you build a flawed team the odds are tremendously against having huge success but possible? Sure.

Especially nowadays. The only thing required to win a cup is a pretty good team and some timely goalkeeping. It's not much of a target but that's what it is. It's not best practices or anything but, heck, anyone can roll a hard 8.
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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #325 on: June 15, 2018, 03:51:28 PM »
So basically, it's good to have a 1D, but no need to blow up the prospect cupboards or splurge for one on the free market unless you're in a position to do so, and better to just draft your darndest and develop them in house?
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #326 on: June 15, 2018, 03:53:18 PM »
So basically, it's good to have a 1D, but no need to blow up the prospect cupboards or splurge for one on the free market unless you're in a position to do so, and better to just draft your darndest and develop them in house?

Heck man, there's no need at all. True happiness comes from within, not shiny metal trophies.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #327 on: June 15, 2018, 04:15:18 PM »
Nik's drunk again guys.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #328 on: June 15, 2018, 04:21:16 PM »
Nik's drunk again guys.

Oh Frank, you know as well as I do it was Lao Tzu who said that we should be content with what we have and rejoice in the way things are. Once we realize that there is nothing lacking, the whole world is ours.

All this time, the true Stanley Cup was in our hearts.
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #329 on: June 15, 2018, 04:27:09 PM »
So once every 14 years or so.  Leafs are almost guaranteed to win it.

Nah, there are other examples. The '96 Avs and '99 Stars depending on how you see Sandis Ozolinsh and Sergei Zubov. Then there's the '95 Devils where Niedermayer wasn't yet in his prime and Stevens was into the "World's Greatest #2D" phase of his career. Then you've got the first and third Crosby/Malkin cups.

Thing is you could probably make similar lists about any one thing in isolation. #1C or a superstar goalie...there have been a bunch of teams winning the Stanley Cup without them either. Teams can win a Stanley Cup with weaknesses but they usually have some crazy edge elsewhere to compensate whether it's multiple HOF level C's or all-time great goalies or what have you.

So it's not that it's not true, it's that it's true of everything. The idea behind targeting a #1C or #1D or whatever has never been that they were fundamental necessities for a certain level of success, but that you wanted to do whatever you could to increase your chances. Those are good things to have. Not having them requires something exceptional elsewhere.

The problem then becomes that we might remember the '06 Canes or '90 Oilers but we don't remember the 9 or 10 teams every year that were similarly flawed who didn't win the Cup. If you build a flawed team the odds are tremendously against having huge success but possible? Sure.

Especially nowadays. The only thing required to win a cup is a pretty good team and some timely goalkeeping. It's not much of a target but that's what it is. It's not best practices or anything but, heck, anyone can roll a hard 8.

I'll always remember the San Jose Sharks.   

Also great quote by Alexander Daigle after being drafted first overall.  "I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two."

It was Chris Pronger.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran