Author Topic: Armchair GM 2016-2017  (Read 53412 times)

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Offline herman

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #375 on: March 17, 2017, 08:58:01 AM »
I find it weird that they give them such a small window. Why not make it a full week or something? What's the harm?

My guess is the league is concerned the lists will be leaked, and they're trying to protect the players who may or may not be on those lists from . . . something, I guess. Honestly, though, 80%+ of those lists are pretty much givens already, so it's not like they'll need a ton of time to figure out what they want to do. For the most part, they probably already know.

Butthurt. This is purely about butthurt.

It's a business, but this league is also almost entirely about relationships and intangibles (see who hires whom and which managers frequently pick up the same players).

VGK is open for discussion, so I'm pretty sure there are irons in the fire and pages that really just need signatures and a phone call.
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #376 on: March 17, 2017, 08:59:16 AM »
My guess is the league is concerned the lists will be leaked, and they're trying to protect the players who may or may not be on those lists from . . . something, I guess. Honestly, though, 80%+ of those lists are pretty much givens already, so it's not like they'll need a ton of time to figure out what they want to do. For the most part, they probably already know.

Oh, the lists are leaking regardless. Especially if McPhee is putting all the unprotected guys on them up for auction. I'm not sure the size of the window will really effect that.

And yes, if all Vegas was concerned about was selecting players from the list, then it wouldn't really be a big deal. But from the sounds if it they're going to be really active in exploring all options in terms of side deals and stuff. That's going to keep them very busy likely.

Offline L K

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #377 on: March 17, 2017, 09:39:20 AM »
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-whats-delaying-nhls-olympic-decision/

Quote
1. Initially, the plan was to give Las Vegas 48 hours with the protected list before the expansion draft. That is being increased to 72. At the GM meetings, the Golden Knights’ George McPhee let everyone know that once the lists are handed to him, it’s an auction for any unprotected player another team might want. This has outstanding potential.

Great opportunity for something interesting to happen.

I find it weird that they give them such a small window. Why not make it a full week or something? What's the harm?

Risk of a leaked list?  No clue.  It seems like putting someone on your unprotected list will largely be a pretty straightforward process after reasonable efforts are made to do last minute trades.

Offline Nik

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #378 on: March 17, 2017, 09:44:01 AM »
I find it weird that they give them such a small window. Why not make it a full week or something? What's the harm?

My guess is the league is concerned the lists will be leaked, and they're trying to protect the players who may or may not be on those lists from . . . something, I guess. Honestly, though, 80%+ of those lists are pretty much givens already, so it's not like they'll need a ton of time to figure out what they want to do. For the most part, they probably already know.

It strikes me as being less about protecting players from anything than it is protecting GMs from criticism about what decisions they make.

The League has pretty consistently adopted a policy of denying fans information that could potentially embarrass GMs(see, for instance, not having a cap-info site at NHL.com).
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #379 on: March 17, 2017, 09:44:26 AM »
What would be the point of extending it?  Giving McPhee a week to extort as much as he can?

I'm fine with the short window, and I'll bet the rest of the teams would rather it be 2 minutes.

Offline Nik

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #380 on: March 17, 2017, 09:47:42 AM »
What would be the point of extending it?  Giving McPhee a week to extort as much as he can?

Well, other than giving a team a reasonable amount of time to scout/discuss the players that will form the bulk of their organization going forward?
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #381 on: March 17, 2017, 09:54:25 AM »
What would be the point of extending it?  Giving McPhee a week to extort as much as he can?

I'm fine with the short window, and I'll bet the rest of the teams would rather it be 2 minutes.

The league has been very open about wanting to give Vegas every opportunity to start their franchise on a positive note. That's why they've added all those new stipulations to the expansion draft, to try to ensure that actual NHLers are getting picked. Granted, it's not going to work and the team will still be awful right out the gate, but they want to give future $500mil investors a sign that they're actually investing in something that might be good.

Online bustaheims

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #382 on: March 17, 2017, 10:43:56 AM »
Well, other than giving a team a reasonable amount of time to scout/discuss the players that will form the bulk of their organization going forward?

Not really going to be any opportunity to scout, as the lists won't be finalized until after the Finals. As for discussions, as noted above, for the most part, they have a pretty solid idea of what's going to be available to them. An extra few days isn't going to improve things much in that regard.
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Offline Nik

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #383 on: March 17, 2017, 10:49:48 AM »
Not really going to be any opportunity to scout, as the lists won't be finalized until after the Finals. As for discussions, as noted above, for the most part, they have a pretty solid idea of what's going to be available to them. An extra few days isn't going to improve things much in that regard.

Won't be able to scout in-person, no, but they will be able to watch tape and a "pretty solid" idea is one thing but having the actual list and being able to put together a real strategy in terms of potential team building seems like the kind of thing that should be done with at least some prep time.
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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #384 on: March 17, 2017, 10:59:33 AM »
Well, other than giving a team a reasonable amount of time to scout/discuss the players that will form the bulk of their organization going forward?

Not really going to be any opportunity to scout, as the lists won't be finalized until after the Finals. As for discussions, as noted above, for the most part, they have a pretty solid idea of what's going to be available to them. An extra few days isn't going to improve things much in that regard.

I agree that VGK have done all the scouting they need prior to the lists being given to them, and, have a pretty good idea who will be available.  The longer window won't really buy them much.

The point of the longer window is to allow Vegas to work out deals with other teams for players available.  If I was McPhee that extra 24 hours might be very handy as you'll have lots of teams calling offering stuff for players on the expansion list.  If I was McPhee, I'd maximize the number of defensemen I pick (and there will be some good ones available) and start trading some of them for more- since they come at a premium on the trade market.  Knowing what you can get back for some of these players will go a long way to help decide who else to pick from other teams.

Anyways, I do hope this expansion draft does cause a huge ripple effect of trades and not just a simple draft of players from teams.  It could get really exciting for fans to see it all happen.

Offline Nik

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #385 on: March 17, 2017, 11:05:42 AM »
The point of the longer window is to allow Vegas to work out deals with other teams for players available.  If I was McPhee that extra 24 hours might be very handy as you'll have lots of teams calling offering stuff for players on the expansion list.  If I was McPhee, I'd maximize the number of defensemen I pick (and there will bmore- since they come at a premium on the trade market.  Knowing what you can get back for some of these players will go a long way to help decide who else to pick from other teams.

If I'm McPhee I'd be very careful about trading some of the better players available to him as part of the expansion draft if the return is draft picks who won't materialize for 4-5 years. I think part of the reason the Expansion draft is shaped the way it is is because the NHL sees the follies of going into a new market, one that's very sketchy as a hockey market and may very well have to compete with the NFL, and being absolute garbage for 4-5 years.

He's not going to be able to put together a good team immediately but if he's not looking at the expansion draft primarily as a way to take players who'll actually play minutes for him then I think he'll have badly misjudged the market he's in.
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Online bustaheims

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #386 on: March 17, 2017, 11:05:47 AM »
Won't be able to scout in-person, no, but they will be able to watch tape and a "pretty solid" idea is one thing but having the actual list and being able to put together a real strategy in terms of potential team building seems like the kind of thing that should be done with at least some prep time.

Even in terms of tape, there's nothing that's stopping them from having watched and analyzed game film on all the players that have a possibility of being available. A few more days isn't going to really provide much more information there.

McPhee was interviewed around the All Star Game, and said he and his front office team had already been going a wide range of scenarios based on potential availability lists. It's probably fair to say that, barring any massive surprises, they'll have done more than enough prep by the time they get the official lists. At that point, the discussions will be which already developed strategy they'll choose to follow.

Honestly, outside of some extra time to negotiate trades, anything that can be accomplished in those extra few days can and should be in the process of being accomplished already - to the point that the benefit of those extra days is pretty minimal - and opens up more possibility of paralysis through analysis.
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Online bustaheims

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #387 on: March 17, 2017, 11:09:04 AM »
The point of the longer window is to allow Vegas to work out deals with other teams for players available.  If I was McPhee that extra 24 hours might be very handy as you'll have lots of teams calling offering stuff for players on the expansion list.  If I was McPhee, I'd maximize the number of defensemen I pick (and there will be some good ones available) and start trading some of them for more- since they come at a premium on the trade market.  Knowing what you can get back for some of these players will go a long way to help decide who else to pick from other teams.

I'm actually not sure that's true. I've gone through the process using the tool at Cap Friendly, and, really, I'm not coming up with a significant number of players I see other teams really being excited about or aggressively pursuing. There's a small number of good 2nd pairing type defencemen, and a couple lower-end 2nd line type forwards, but, really, that's about it.
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Offline Nik

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #388 on: March 17, 2017, 11:15:57 AM »
Even in terms of tape, there's nothing that's stopping them from having watched and analyzed game film on all the players that have a possibility of being available. A few more days isn't going to really provide much more information there.

No, not unless there are a couple of genuine surprises in terms of who gets made available. In which case I think you want to give them a fair amount of time to look at things that may have fallen outside some of the preparation they've done.

McPhee was interviewed around the All Star Game, and said he and his front office team had already been going a wide range of scenarios based on potential availability lists. It's probably fair to say that, barring any massive surprises, they'll have done more than enough prep by the time they get the official lists. At that point, the discussions will be which already developed strategy they'll choose to follow.

Honestly, outside of some extra time to negotiate trades, anything that can be accomplished in those extra few days can and should be in the process of being accomplished already - to the point that the benefit of those extra days is pretty minimal - and opens up more possibility of paralysis through analysis.

I'm not sure we disagree about any of the broad strokes of what Vegas will actually be doing, just on what's a reasonable amount of time for them to actually do it.

Giving them a week probably won't result in any massive improvement but the idea that it would cause active harm seems entirely unfounded. 7 days seems like a fair amount of time to move from hypothetical to "this is what's actually going to happen" planning.
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Offline herman

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Re: Armchair GM 2016-2017
« Reply #389 on: March 17, 2017, 11:22:14 AM »
Is this where we offer JvR and Bozak to them as a set? Built in 1st line right there. Short term hits at great value, for the measly cost of draft picks that they won't be putting to immediate use anyway, which can also be recouped or spent from expansion draft deals.

Or a JvR for a defenseman deal using VGK as a bounce pass point where there wasn't a direct fit with the other team.
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