Jays Roster Discussion

[cabber24]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

They inherited an MVP, a young ERA winner, the best young closer in the game plus Stroman. I think a lot of people would agree that group is something to build around. Instead, management observed, spun their wheels and did nothing.

I am tired of this argument. Personally, not a "Shatkins" fan.

[Deebo]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

They inherited an MVP, a young ERA winner, the best young closer in the game plus Stroman. I think a lot of people would agree that group is something to build around. Instead, management observed, spun their wheels and did nothing.

I am tired of this argument. Personally, not a "Shatkins" fan.

What did those pieces combine to give them over the last 2 seasons? What did other key pieces from the 2015/16 team like Travis, Bautista, Estrada, Tulo, Martin etc. do in 2017/18?

While what they inherited performed well in 2015/16, they didn't provide real value in 2017/18. Management saw that they were an older team on the verge of a sharp decline so they didn't move valuable prospects to add to a declining core.

If you are tired of the argument, then don't post about it.

[cabber24]

A depressing state of affairs in Toronto.

Do Atkins and Shapiro even know they work for the Jays? Given a contender and the best attendance and viewership. Atkins and Shapiro raise prices, resign no one, trade no one and shop at the Dollarama.

Enjoy your lack of ticket sales and viewership you earned it.

They inherited a contender who had very short window of contention left. Pretty much every player that made the Jays a contender has declined drastically since the end of the 2016 season, either due to age or injury.

No matter who was in charge, that type of decline from your top players would be very difficult to overcome, a rebuild was always around the corner. Most publications have the Jays with a top 5 farm system and there are some interesting players with control on the MLB team right now. There is also lots of money coming off the books over the next few years.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for the future of the Jays.

They inherited an MVP, a young ERA winner, the best young closer in the game plus Stroman. I think a lot of people would agree that group is something to build around. Instead, management observed, spun their wheels and did nothing.

I am tired of this argument. Personally, not a "Shatkins" fan.

What did those pieces combine to give them over the last 2 seasons? What did other key pieces from the 2015/16 team like Travis, Bautista, Estrada, Tulo, Martin etc. do in 2017/18?

While what they inherited performed well in 2015/16, they didn't provide real value in 2017/18. Management saw that they were an older team on the verge of a sharp decline so they didn't move valuable prospects to add to a declining core.

If you are tired of the argument, then don't post about it.

Nor did they recoup anything. Which is it, they choose to watch. Neither rebuilding or competing.

[Deebo]

Nor did they recoup anything. Which is it, they choose to watch. Neither rebuilding or competing.

They did trade Lirano, Smith, Pearce, Happ, Oh, Axford and Loup. Reports are indicating Granderson and Donaldson both are likely moved today as well.

The probably held on to Donaldson for too long. If he was healthy this season I would imagine he would have been moved by now and I don't anyone anticipated him being injured all season.

The other vets like Bautista, Martin and Tulo had no value at the 2017 deadline or this past offseason in the case of Martin and Tulo.

Giles, Smoak and Morales (who has had a pretty good year) are candidates to move for futures between this off-season and next year's deadline. They already have a strong farm system and good payroll flexibility opening up over the next couple years.

No guarantees, but I interested to see how this goes over the next couple years.

[Andy]

Nor did they recoup anything. Which is it, they choose to watch. Neither rebuilding or competing.

They did trade Lirano, Smith, Pearce, Happ, Oh, Axford and Loup. Reports are indicating Granderson and Donaldson both are likely moved today as well.

The probably held on to Donaldson for too long. If he was healthy this season I would imagine he would have been moved by now and I don't anyone anticipated him being injured all season.

The other vets like Bautista, Martin and Tulo had no value at the 2017 deadline or this past offseason in the case of Martin and Tulo.

Giles, Smoak and Morales (who has had a pretty good year) are candidates to move for futures between this off-season and next year's deadline. They already have a strong farm system and good payroll flexibility opening up over the next couple years.

No guarantees, but I interested to see how this goes over the next couple years.

Yea and not only is their system a top 3 or 4 farm system in all of baseball but of the top 30, 22 are from Atkins/Shapiro.

That's pretty impressive and certainly not the result of "choosing to watch" and "not rebuilding."

[Nik Bethune]

I'm sorry but I think this conversation has sort of reached a pretty ridiculous threshold when "inheriting" Osuna is seen as some sort of piece of extraordinary good luck.

[Captain Canuck]

Josh Donaldson has been traded to the Indians.

[Joe S.]

I’m trying to be patient with Shapiro and Atkins, but man, they do not inspire confidence.

I’ll give them a pass on osuna, not much they could have done, but this is pure garbage. There is no way they got anything of substance from Cleveland.

[TML fan]

They weren't going to get anything for him anyway.

[Joe S.]

They weren't going to get anything for him anyway.

Then qualify him and keep him.

[TML fan]

They weren't going to get anything for him anyway.

Then qualify him and keep him.

What for? So he can get injured again and still have no trade value?

[Joe S.]

I really don’t want to get into a back and forth but I feel there was a chance for a reset and a second chance next season. If he plays well he has trade value, if he doesn’t or can’t play the season all it cost them was one season of salary.

But his mad scramble to get rid of him just looks like amateur hour.

[TML fan]

If anything they probably had a hard sell getting the budget for Donaldson knowing that the team was probably going to be garbage next year and still having big useless contracts on the books.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

[Nik Bethune]

They weren't going to get anything for him anyway.

Then qualify him and keep him.

There's a pretty good chance he wouldn't have signed a QO. In which case the return for him is just FA compensation so whatever return they got from Cleveland should probably be measured against that.

[Joe S.]

I don’t disagree with you - but it seems like optics at this point. If it comes to the same in terms of perceived value why  do you take the option where it looks like you’re desperate to throw out the trash rather than maybe giving some respect to the player that resurrected the franchise.

I know, I know, there’s no real thing as loyalty in sports.