Author Topic: The Official Health and Fitness Thread  (Read 71491 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline L K

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 10401
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #690 on: February 25, 2016, 08:25:20 AM »
I'll give the guy credit for using some citations.  Amusing to me is that one of the citations is used as a means of discrediting the Shang et. al paper.

That study that was cited to do that came to this conclusion:
Quote
Biases are present in placebo-controlled trials of both homoeopathy and conventional medicine. When account was taken for these biases in the analysis, there was weak evidence for a specific effect of homoeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions. This finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homoeopathy are placebo effects.
(Linde, 2005)

Online CarltonTheBear

  • Administrator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 26406
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #691 on: February 25, 2016, 08:26:38 AM »
The Swiss report represents a biased review largely by homeopaths who changed the rules of evidence in order to declare that homeopathy works. Other homeopaths then present this review as unbiased and definitive. This is behavior that would make even the most unscrupulous pharmaceutical rep blush.

This is also, unfortunately, not an isolated incident. This represents a general strategy apparent in the world of CAM – to present themselves as the experts so that they can pack panels with proponents and then advocate for changing the normal rules of scientific evidence in order to produce highly biased assessments of CAM. Further, they portray skeptics (meaning those who advocate for consistent and rigorous scientific methods) to be biased so that when they point out that the emperor has no clothes they can be dismissed.

The Swiss report on homeopathy represents an embarrassing failure for the Swiss government. They should suspend any decisions based upon this report and put together an new scientific panel to perform a fresh and legitimate review of homeopathy. Or, they don’t have to reinvent the wheel – they can just review the UKs thorough and rigorous report and adopt its findings. Homeopathy is witchcraft and deserves no government support of any kind.


https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-swiss-report-on-homeopathy/

This paper analyses the report and concludes that it is scientifically, logically and ethically flawed. Specifically, it contains no new evidence and misinterprets studies previously exposed as weak; creates a new standard of evidence designed to make homeopathy appear effective; and attempts to discredit randomised controlled trials as the gold standard of evidence. Most importantly, almost all the authors have conflicts of interest, despite their claim that none exist. If anything, the report proves that homeopaths are willing to distort evidence in order to support their beliefs, and its authors appear to have breached Swiss Academies of Arts and Sciences principles governing scientific integrity.

http://www.smw.ch/content/smw-2012-13594/

TMLfans.ca

Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #691 on: February 25, 2016, 08:26:38 AM »

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21259
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #692 on: February 25, 2016, 08:44:14 AM »
You really have no idea what homeopathic remedies will do or if they have any evidence behind their claims.

Yes we do. They do nothing.

That's not true. They're very effective at separating people that don't trust modern medicine from their money.

(To be fair, some natural/homeopathic remedies are useful in temporary relief from certain symptoms, but none of them address the cause.)
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #693 on: February 25, 2016, 08:51:50 AM »
(To be fair, some natural/homeopathic remedies are useful in temporary relief from certain symptoms, but none of them address the cause.)

Sure, I believe in natural remedies. Like if you get a headache it's really good to take a pill derived from the bark of a willow tree. It's called aspirin. 
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline Bullfrog

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5485
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #694 on: February 25, 2016, 09:37:20 AM »
That's not true. They're very effective at separating people that don't trust modern medicine from their money.

(To be fair, some natural/homeopathic remedies are useful in temporary relief from certain symptoms, but none of them address the cause.)

No, that's not being fair, that's acquiescing to snake-oil sales people. Some "natural" medicines can be effective, sure, but homeopathy is pure hocus-pocus. Any affects are almost certainly a result of the placebo-affect.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 09:42:31 AM by Bullfrog »

Offline Bullfrog

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5485
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #695 on: February 25, 2016, 09:38:07 AM »
Sure, I believe in natural remedies. Like if you get a headache it's really good to take a pill derived from the bark of a willow tree. It's called aspirin.

You know what they call effective alternative medicine?

Medicine.

Offline Bullfrog

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5485
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #696 on: February 25, 2016, 09:41:55 AM »
Quote
Homeopathy is not effective for treating any health condition, Australia’s top body for medical research has concluded, after undertaking an extensive review of existing studies.
...
These claims have been widely disproven by multiple studies, but the National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) has for the first time thoroughly reviewed 225 research papers on homeopathy to come up with its position statement, released on Wednesday.

“Based on the assessment of the evidence of effectiveness of homeopathy, NHMRC concludes that there are no health conditions for which there is reliable evidence that homeopathy is effective,” the report concluded.

“People who choose homeopathy may put their health at risk if they reject or delay treatments for which there is good evidence for safety and effectiveness.”

And because I know how the internet works, you may click on the following link to read the rest of the article:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/11/homeopathy-not-effective-for-treating-any-condition-australian-report-finds

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #697 on: February 25, 2016, 10:21:17 AM »
Steven Novella, ORAC, Stephen Barrett, James Randi et al., what do these "quackbusting" pseudo-skeptic minions have in common?  Plenty, for themselves:

Statement of the Case:
The Doctor's Data v Barrett, Federal Court case is well designed.  To me, with one exception which can be fixed, it addresses the big picture of what should rightfully be called "The Quackbuster Conspiracy."  The attorneys writing the case looked carefully at what was actually happening, realized that what Barrett, et al, were doing was a pattern, and as such, had all the earmarks of an organized conspiracy. The real beauty of the case is in what happened AFTER the case was filed and Barrett's minions reacted with what is known on the internet, as a "Googlebomb," increasing, with Intentional Malice, the damage done to Doctor's Data, taking control of the internet search engines on the subject.  These fools actually bragged that they, in full and open conspiracy, were going to create much greater defamation.

Doctor's Data is a CLIA-certified scientific and medical laboratory in St. Charles, Illinois, in the business of analyzing blood, tissue, and other samples for health care practitioners.  Plaintiff was the lab of choice for many physicians until Dr. Stephen Barrett and his minions began defaming Plaintiff on their websites, accusing the lab of intentionally applying fraud and fraudulent results by applying proper reference ranges to specimen analyzes, and conspiring with the physicians, from who they receive the specimen, to commit fraud.

Factual Allegations Applicable to all Courts:
Barrett and his associates operate numerous internet websites, including inter alia, the websites referenced in this complaint...

Defendants operate the aforesaid websites and others to attack what they unilaterally deem to be unscrupulous health care practices by anyone whose beliefs or methods differ from their own.

For unjust and conspiratorial reasons, Defendants have taken to attacking the laboratories, including Doctor's Data, upon which many health care practitioners rely for laboratory analyses.
 
Generally, the users of and visitors to said websites are, inter alia, members of the public, who are researching and investigating forms of medical treatment for themselves or loved ones, members of the public shopping for a new health care provider who come across one of said websites through Google or other internet search engines; members of the public interested in medicine and health care issues who come across said websites through Google and other internet search engines; investigators for state medical boards looking for evidence of wrongdoing by practitioners licensed in their jurisdiction; and zealots who have adopted and embraced Barrett's and the other defendants propaganda.

Defendants encourage users of and visitors to said websites to bring lawsuits against individuals and entities engaged in the practice of alternative or complementary medicine.  To effectuate this goal, they created and ostensibly rely on a "Legal Advisory Board" which sounds official, smart and neutral, but is actually a list of lawyers soliciting potential clients interested in "filing lawsuits on behalf of quackery victims."

Defendants have created and ostensibly rely in whole or in part on technical advisors in their effort to encourage users of and visitors to said websites to bring lawsuits against individuals and entities engaged in the practice of alternative and complimentary medicine.

Barrett and all other defendants caused and continue to cause damage to Doctor's Data by having made and continuing to make false or misleading statements...

The aforesaid false or misleading statements were made in the course of self-promotion...for the purpose of among other things, soliciting donations in their war against whatever persons or entities they choose to attack as quacks...

Barrett and the other defendants have diluted and continue to dilute the value of Doctor's Data trade name and trademark and besmirch it's reputation by having made and continuing to make false or misleading statements...


A classic example of the fear-mongering, public brainwashing and ruination of reputation that these pseudo-skeptics foist not only upon the public but against reputable institutions.  They never quit, these jerks!

FOR SHAME!!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 10:29:20 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21259
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #698 on: February 25, 2016, 10:35:18 AM »
Sure, I believe in natural remedies. Like if you get a headache it's really good to take a pill derived from the bark of a willow tree. It's called aspirin.

Well, sure, if you want your stomach lining to bleed. I prefer to take a derivative of of natural indigo dye, commercially marketed as Tylenol.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6904
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #699 on: February 25, 2016, 10:55:25 AM »
The real question what aids in "Preventative Medicine".  There are hundreds of pharmacutical drugs that do more damage than good.  Also their are thousands of quack remedies, many made to separate people from their money. So it seems the leading factor to good health is improving the immune system, the leading thing we can do is take the best probitics available, stop smoking, cut down drinking, get exercise
Eat a ton of sprouted veggies: broccoli, sunflower, pea, etc etc.  ad some Spirulina to the mix and blend it into a Vitamix, drink at least one a day. Make sure you get magnisim in some form, preferably slow release.
Somehow learn to cut out or at least cut down stress, as I truly believe this is the major reason for bad health.
Now I find cutting down the alcohol and getting exercise to be very hard to maintain, but at least I do the rest most of the time.
One tip; research NAC (especially Pharmanac), my Doctor/Pharmacist put me on NAC three years ago and I have not had one broncial problem since (this is from a guy who used to suffer two or three bronchial problems a year). Stuff took me of my rescue inhalers as well.
Just my two cents worth.
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #700 on: February 25, 2016, 11:00:23 AM »
The real question what aids in "Preventative Medicine".  There are hundreds of pharmacutical drugs that do more damage than good.  Also their are thousands of quack remedies, many made to separate people from their money. So it seems the leading factor to good health is improving the immune system, the leading thing we can do is take the best probitics available, stop smoking, cut down drinking, get exercise
Eat a ton of sprouted veggies: broccoli, sunflower, pea, etc etc.  ad some Spirulina to the mix and blend it into a Vitamix, drink at least one a day. Make sure you get magnisim in some form, preferably slow release.
Somehow learn to cut out or at least cut down stress, as I truly believe this is the major reason for bad health.
Now I find cutting down the alcohol and getting exercise to be very hard to maintain, but at least I do the rest most of the time.
One tip; research NAC (especially Pharmanac), my Doctor/Pharmacist put me on NAC three years ago and I have not had one broncial problem since (this is from a guy who used to suffer two or three bronchial problems a year). Stuff took me of my rescue inhalers as well.
Just my two cents worth.


Happy for you.  :)

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #701 on: February 25, 2016, 11:01:43 AM »
You know what they call effective alternative medicine?

Medicine.

I think I posted the link to Storm a while back during one of these discussions but like Tim Minchin says in it "Alternative medicine is, by definition, either something that hasn't been proven to work or has been proven not to work".
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #702 on: February 25, 2016, 11:55:04 AM »

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #703 on: February 25, 2016, 11:59:51 AM »

Finally, we're hearing from the real medical experts: cartoonists.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Health and Fitness Thread
« Reply #704 on: February 25, 2016, 12:02:46 PM »