Author Topic: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen  (Read 23562 times)

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Offline freer

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #240 on: February 27, 2015, 01:22:51 PM »
Yep if he is that or half a Darcy in his prime then good for us. Hey dont get me wrong I like Cody and Mike but we need new young guys with piss and vinegar whom want to win and and have the time to develop. I like the moves the Leafs are making. Now just get rid of Bozak, please

they need to get rid of kessel Bozak Dion and Lupul. Get on it Nonnis

The last thing the Leafs need to do is "get rid" of Phil Kessel. And that isn't to say that I'm entirely against trading him. The thing is, Kessel has scored at an elite rate for the previous 3 years despite playing with zero top-line or elite players. This is a guy who plays 82 games just about every year. He's only 27. If he is traded, you trade him for a huge return, nothing less. You don't "get rid" of him, that is just an absolutely asinine comment.

YES he can score pts. He can not play a full team game. A true rebuild will not have the team built around him. IMO

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #240 on: February 27, 2015, 01:22:51 PM »

Offline Highlander

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #241 on: February 27, 2015, 02:45:38 PM »
and agreed with Andy007 on Phil.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #242 on: February 27, 2015, 02:58:53 PM »
I don't think anyone is suggesting the Leafs throw away Kessel without getting a lot in return. Obviously he has been one of the top scorers in the league over the past several years and has a combination of skills that is rarely seen.

The key question is, do the Leafs clear out the entire core (Phaneuf, Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Lupul) and do a true rebuild from the bottom up? If not, who do they keep. And does winning the lottery change the approach? Is McDavid good enough to step into the lineup as Kessel's center in a year or two...and if so, is that good for the Leafs? Or just another shortcut that avoids a true rebuild?

I go back and forth on this, though I think my preference is to wipe the slate clean and start over. It may take a while, though, to clear out all those contracts and get good value for all of them. And I'm far from confident that Leaf owership/management has the stomach/patience for a true build-from-scratch scenario.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #243 on: February 27, 2015, 03:03:41 PM »
Yep if he is that or half a Darcy in his prime then good for us. Hey dont get me wrong I like Cody and Mike but we need new young guys with piss and vinegar whom want to win and and have the time to develop. I like the moves the Leafs are making. Now just get rid of Bozak, please

they need to get rid of kessel Bozak Dion and Lupul. Get on it Nonnis

The last thing the Leafs need to do is "get rid" of Phil Kessel. And that isn't to say that I'm entirely against trading him. The thing is, Kessel has scored at an elite rate for the previous 3 years despite playing with zero top-line or elite players. This is a guy who plays 82 games just about every year. He's only 27. If he is traded, you trade him for a huge return, nothing less. You don't "get rid" of him, that is just an absolutely asinine comment.

YES he can score pts. He can not play a full team game. A true rebuild will not have the team built around him. IMO

I suppose they need to get rid of Polak then too, can't win with guys like him who don't play a team game.

Online Rob

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #244 on: February 27, 2015, 03:22:10 PM »
And I'm far from confident that Leaf owership/management has the stomach/patience for a true build-from-scratch scenario.

Then they will just get more of the same.

A roster of expensive dreck that other teams couldn't wait to get rid of,  over payed free agents and desperate trade moves.

Offline Frank E

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #245 on: February 27, 2015, 03:25:22 PM »
Yep if he is that or half a Darcy in his prime then good for us. Hey dont get me wrong I like Cody and Mike but we need new young guys with piss and vinegar whom want to win and and have the time to develop. I like the moves the Leafs are making. Now just get rid of Bozak, please

they need to get rid of kessel Bozak Dion and Lupul. Get on it Nonnis

The last thing the Leafs need to do is "get rid" of Phil Kessel. And that isn't to say that I'm entirely against trading him. The thing is, Kessel has scored at an elite rate for the previous 3 years despite playing with zero top-line or elite players. This is a guy who plays 82 games just about every year. He's only 27. If he is traded, you trade him for a huge return, nothing less. You don't "get rid" of him, that is just an absolutely asinine comment.

YES he can score pts. He can not play a full team game. A true rebuild will not have the team built around him. IMO

I suppose they need to get rid of Polak then too, can't win with guys like him who don't play a team game.

If the Leafs traded away all the players being suggested around here, they wouldn't be able to ice a roster, or hit the cap floor.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #246 on: February 27, 2015, 03:33:50 PM »
If the Leafs traded away all the players being suggested around here, they wouldn't be able to ice a roster, or hit the cap floor.

One wrinkle that might come into play here is that Horton's cap hit would help the Leafs reach the floor if they jettisoned a bunch of contracts. Lets say Kadri and Bernier split $9mil in cap space and Phaneuf, Kessel, and Bozak are all traded away without any cap hits coming back to the team, the Leafs would have just over $41mil committed to only 12 players next season. It wouldn't be too hard to sign a handful of guys like we did last offseason in Winnik/Santorelli/Booth/Robidas to fill things out and hit a floor that'll be somewhere around $52mil.

edit: Forgot the $2mil-ish cap hit on the books for Gleason/Gunnarsson too.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 03:37:22 PM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #247 on: February 27, 2015, 03:38:27 PM »
If the Leafs traded away all the players being suggested around here, they wouldn't be able to ice a roster, or hit the cap floor.

That's assuming they don't take any contracts back or anything. In terms of the cap floor, I'm pretty sure the Leafs have already hit it in terms of cap dollars they've spent to this point. That's a complete non-issue for this season. For future seasons, it's not all the difficult to do, either - you just have to sign some UFAs to short, possibly inflated deals. Filling out the roster for the rest of the season isn't difficult, either. There are guys on the Marlies that can be called up, players that can be picked up off waivers before Monday, etc., and, really, with most of the guys left to be moved, in the unlikely event it happens by the deadline on Monday, there will be contracts coming back to make it work for the other team's cap.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline TML fan

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #248 on: February 27, 2015, 04:04:45 PM »
I don't think the Leafs will trade Kessel. No reason really. Just a feeling.

Offline Deebo

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #249 on: February 27, 2015, 04:14:56 PM »
The last thing we as fans need to worry about is hitting the cap floor.

Offline Frank E

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #250 on: February 27, 2015, 05:25:06 PM »
If the Leafs traded away all the players being suggested around here, they wouldn't be able to ice a roster, or hit the cap floor.

One wrinkle that might come into play here is that Horton's cap hit would help the Leafs reach the floor if they jettisoned a bunch of contracts. Lets say Kadri and Bernier split $9mil in cap space and Phaneuf, Kessel, and Bozak are all traded away without any cap hits coming back to the team, the Leafs would have just over $41mil committed to only 12 players next season. It wouldn't be too hard to sign a handful of guys like we did last offseason in Winnik/Santorelli/Booth/Robidas to fill things out and hit a floor that'll be somewhere around $52mil.

edit: Forgot the $2mil-ish cap hit on the books for Gleason/Gunnarsson too.

Yeah, just to respond to you and bustaMcthreadender, I was exaggerating  somewhat.  I just mean that they're not going to ice a team of plugs next season, so they're going to have to take some NHL players back in some of these proposed deals...they won't just be prospects and picks.

I'm surprised that not many are talking about moving JVR and his cap-friendly deal for a nice package.  I'd keep Lupul around for some veteran'ish presence. 

I think Kessel is gone this summer, but Phaneuf stays.

Offline Lee-bo

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #251 on: February 27, 2015, 05:29:04 PM »
I don't think the Leafs will trade Kessel. No reason really. Just a feeling.
Do we really want to keep Kessel around to show all these new young prospects how to take summers off and skip out on optional skates when you can?

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #252 on: February 27, 2015, 05:37:14 PM »
I don't think the Leafs will trade Kessel. No reason really. Just a feeling.
Do we really want to keep Kessel around to show all these new young prospects how to take summers off and skip out on optional skates when you can?

Mr. Feschuk, welcome to the forums.

Offline wnc096

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #253 on: February 27, 2015, 05:40:14 PM »
I don't think the Leafs will trade Kessel. No reason really. Just a feeling.
Do we really want to keep Kessel around to show all these new young prospects how to take summers off and skip out on optional skates when you can?

I don't think prospects are 5 year old children, They are grown adults who can make their own decisions.  I think work ethic either is or isn't is a part of a persons personal attributes by the time they are 20 years old

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #254 on: February 27, 2015, 05:44:28 PM »
I don't think the Leafs will trade Kessel. No reason really. Just a feeling.
Do we really want to keep Kessel around to show all these new young prospects how to take summers off and skip out on optional skates when you can?

I don't think prospects are 5 year old children, They are grown adults who can make their own decisions.  I think work ethic either is or isn't is a part of a persons personal attributes by the time they are 20 years old

I think it's valuable knowledge that you apparently don't have to work out or practice yet can be one of the top point getters in the NHL.


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Re: Franson, Santorelli to NSH for 1st round pick, Brendan Leipsic, Olli Jokinen
« Reply #254 on: February 27, 2015, 05:44:28 PM »