Author Topic: Trade Deadline  (Read 40702 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline A Weekend at Bernier's

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1106
  • Gender: Male
  • TMLfans Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #495 on: March 06, 2014, 10:14:59 AM »
He probably should have known his goaltending was bad going into this season.

Well, sure, but he should have known his goaltending was bad since he arrived, too.  We'll agree he misjudged that, but the trade still looked better in the fall than it does today.

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21254
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #496 on: March 06, 2014, 10:22:12 AM »
He probably should have known his goaltending was bad going into this season.

Sure, but, what does his playing career have to do with running a team?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

TMLfans.ca

Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #496 on: March 06, 2014, 10:22:12 AM »

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26891
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #497 on: March 06, 2014, 11:16:11 AM »
While the breakdown of the trade is true, it really is retrospective analysis at its best.  At the time of the Vanek deal, the Islanders looked like a good, young team who were capable of producing wins.  Acquiring Vanek would help take some heat off of Tavares, provide some secondary scoring and act as a veteran presence in a young dressing room.  I don't think Snow could have predicted things would have gone off the rails as badly as they have, or maybe he was simply prepared to live with the risk.

So looking at the deal now, yeah, sure, it looks awful.  And I'm not suggesting Garth Snow is a great GM.  But looking at the deals without a bit of context is unfair.

More to that point, and I made this argument in the Vanek to NYI thread when it happened, at some point Garth Snow had to try and land someone of Vanek's stature and the simple reality is that guys weren't coming there as free agents. Giving up what he did to Buffalo in terms of picks obviously stings but I think that a lot of the criticism of that deal from these parts reveals the world of a Leafs fan. We can't fathom making a risky trade like this because we see free agency as a viable alternative to adding high priced veterans. For Snow, who's got problems with attracting free agents that have nothing to do with him or how he's run the team, he really doesn't have a lot of options in terms of adding the sort of linemate that would really compliment Tavares. So you add Vanek and hope you can convince him to re-sign. If he doesn't, well, you move him at the deadline.

And what did the whole thing ultimately end up costing the Islanders? Well, if they'd just kept Moulson they'd have their first and second round picks but wouldn't have the picks from Montreal or Collberg. If they'd kept Moulson but dealt him they'd probably have gotten a similar return to what the Sabres got for him. So these are the three possible options for the Islanders

Option A: A full season of Matt Moulson, all of their picks

Option B: 45 games of Matt Moulson, 2 extra second rounders

Option C: 45 games from Thomas Vanek, no first round pick(with top 10 protection for this year) or second but an added second and fifth from Montreal if they make the playoffs and a prospect who was drafted just outside the first round two years ago.

So while I suppose I understand some people thinking that Option B is the way to go, I think the reality is that Options C and A end up being pretty similar in the long run and even the two extra picks are pretty unimportant to a team that's made a ton of 1st and 2nd round draft picks over the last few years. Unless you put absolutely no value on having Vanek on the team for half a season, it's tough to bury them on this one.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline hockeyfan1

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 9510
  • Gender: Female
  • QUIETNESS is GREATNESS
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #498 on: March 06, 2014, 11:42:53 AM »
He probably should have known his goaltending was bad going into this season.

I know a few Isles fans were happy with some aspects with the Vanek trade, but were also questioning why it even took place when they had much more pressing needs, such as needing to upgrade the defense and goaltending.

But I'll admit I liked the idea of the trade when it came out. In theory it made sense because, worst case scenario, they could just as easily trade Vanek again at the deadline to re-coup most of their losses. But that blew up in their faces.


The Islanders have yet to upgrade their netminding after all these years.  Sure they had DiPietro but we also know how that turned out. 

By upgrade, I allude to some of the goaltenders in their system, the up and comers.  Even if they have them, in fact some are backing up Nabokov (such as Kevin Poulin & Anders Nillson), goalkeeping is still not an Islander strongpoint.

Here is a chart showing all the Islanders netminder from past to present along with statistics:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/NYI/goalies.html

Offline BlueWhiteBlood

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4146
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #499 on: March 06, 2014, 02:43:32 PM »
I'm just saying there are ways they could have make it work.

And I'm just saying there actually weren't ;)

(unless the team knew Bolland was done for the year)

I am going to have to rent a barn for us to fight in?

You guys could have just called Lou Lamerello and got him to fix the cap for us.
BWB

Offline Tigger

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6368
  • You can play
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #500 on: March 06, 2014, 06:29:04 PM »
I'm quite glad the Leafs stood by and let the troops fall on their collectively bargained sword. The only thing missing is some talent coming down the pike or this whole 'stretch the cap to get the youngin's ready' notion would be gold Jerry, or butler, gold... but there they are, caught in no man's land, again.

It's disappointing that a team with so many holes is right up to the Cap while most other teams that are similar or stronger can add the likes of St. Louis, Vanek etc.

I think this team is a lot worse off than many would like to think it is.

They are a fairly young team, lots left to do before they can be considered any kind of favourite so I don't mind them being up against the cap if it stops them from being spenders when they should be eyeing selling or standing pat.

I wish the rebuild had been truly embraced back when... but it hasn't turned out horribly for them.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Potvin29

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 14579
  • Gender: Male
  • Auston 20:16
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #501 on: March 06, 2014, 09:08:20 PM »
I'm quite glad the Leafs stood by and let the troops fall on their collectively bargained sword. The only thing missing is some talent coming down the pike or this whole 'stretch the cap to get the youngin's ready' notion would be gold Jerry, or butler, gold... but there they are, caught in no man's land, again.

It's disappointing that a team with so many holes is right up to the Cap while most other teams that are similar or stronger can add the likes of St. Louis, Vanek etc.

I think this team is a lot worse off than many would like to think it is.

They are a fairly young team, lots left to do before they can be considered any kind of favourite so I don't mind them being up against the cap if it stops them from being spenders when they should be eyeing selling or standing pat.

I wish the rebuild had been truly embraced back when... but it hasn't turned out horribly for them.

It might force the team to lose some players + not necessarily take full advantage of their best player in his prime.

Offline Tigger

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6368
  • You can play
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #502 on: March 06, 2014, 09:26:23 PM »
It might force the team to lose some players + not necessarily take full advantage of their best player in his prime.

Could be but in general I don't think the deadline is really the time to solve that problem, and I'm not sure what deadline deal could really have helped that didn't cost an arm and a leg when one is already down at least one limb.

What kind of percent loss are we talking about with the Leafs best player, like 5%? 10? I'm not really sure how you even quantify that given the composition of an NHL team.

The Leafs aren't ready to go for it, glad they decided to play it out for the most part.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Potvin29

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 14579
  • Gender: Male
  • Auston 20:16
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #503 on: March 06, 2014, 09:48:03 PM »
It might force the team to lose some players + not necessarily take full advantage of their best player in his prime.

Could be but in general I don't think the deadline is really the time to solve that problem, and I'm not sure what deadline deal could really have helped that didn't cost an arm and a leg when one is already down at least one limb.

What kind of percent loss are we talking about with the Leafs best player, like 5%? 10? I'm not really sure how you even quantify that given the composition of an NHL team.

The Leafs aren't ready to go for it, glad they decided to play it out for the most part.

Wasn't really talking about the deadline, but in general.  Cap space will be an issue after the season too.

Offline Tigger

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6368
  • You can play
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #504 on: March 08, 2014, 04:39:15 AM »
Wasn't really talking about the deadline, but in general.  Cap space will be an issue after the season too.

There is a 10% cushion coming up for everyone, a little more flex overall, no?
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6900
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #505 on: March 08, 2014, 10:13:27 AM »
the NHL has had a banner year, the most revenues ever and by a country mile. One would think that the cap is going up significantly this year and over the next years. Conjecture has a 90 million cap in three years. Some of these top players are going to be getting super ridiculous money next time they renegotiate their deals.
In two years the Clarkson deal will seem like chump change
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki

Online CarltonTheBear

  • Administrator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 26394
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #506 on: March 08, 2014, 11:08:37 AM »
the NHL has had a banner year, the most revenues ever and by a country mile. One would think that the cap is going up significantly this year and over the next years. Conjecture has a 90 million cap in three years. Some of these top players are going to be getting super ridiculous money next time they renegotiate their deals.
In two years the Clarkson deal will seem like chump change

When James Mirtle did his cap projections he figured the cap wouldn't get close to $90mil until 2021-22. It definitely won't happen in 3 years. And those projections were with a stronger Canadian dollar, it's projected now that next season the cap will be around $68mil because the dollar is at 90 cents.

Offline Highlander

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6900
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Trade Deadline
« Reply #507 on: March 08, 2014, 12:51:53 PM »
It doesnt makes sense that there is not some form of compensation allowed for our fluctuating dollar…after all the players receive US dollar contracts, this puts Canadian teams at a huge disadvantage…are we sure there is not some parody involved in the NHL barganing agreement???
"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few"
                                           Sunryn Suzuki