Author Topic: The Official Complaint Thread!  (Read 149939 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #900 on: June 11, 2012, 04:04:03 PM »
My guess is this rule made little to no impact on the situation they were trying to deal with, because it doesn't deal with the bullying at all.

Well, it would certainly make an impact on the use of the word which is what I'm talking about here. Honestly, I really pity the person who doesn't see how it's a slur.

TMLfans.ca

Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #900 on: June 11, 2012, 04:04:03 PM »

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26062
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #901 on: June 11, 2012, 04:05:26 PM »
And much to my original point, I suspect a lot of people would have the same issue 40 or more years ago with the use of the "N" word or similar slurs.

You are being absurd. A racial slur is not the equivalent of childish name calling.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #902 on: June 11, 2012, 04:07:10 PM »


Kick a ginger day is more offensive to you than kick a red head day? It's the exact same thing to me.

If I was a kid in that school and could get sent to the office for saying ginger I'd do it every day, just to protest how truly absurd that is, then I'd start screaming about auburn inequality.

They'd be  equally offensive if "kick a red-head day" actually existed... and good thing you're not a kid anymore then I guess.

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26062
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #903 on: June 11, 2012, 04:08:32 PM »
In this case, using a term to invoke a negative response to gain feelings of superiority over another.

Right. Nobody is saying that's ok. The issue is whether or not specific words make that action worse or if the word, entirely divorced from the actions, is in and of itself worthy of punishment. Kids have lots of words to use to make other kids feel bad that can be based on anything or based on nothing. The distinction being made is between the words and the actions.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 04:11:07 PM by Nikł »
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 20786
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #904 on: June 11, 2012, 04:08:35 PM »
That is absurd.  You can't separate the perpatrator and their actions.  They are one in the same.  In this case, using a term to invoke a negative response to gain feelings of superiority over another.  It is irrelevant if you agree that the term has negative connotations.

When you ban a word, you're not punishing the perpetrator for their actions. If a kid is bullying another kid with the word ginger, then, absolutely, punish the kid for that action - and that action is bullying, regardless of the words that were used. If that kid can't say ginger, they'll find something else they can say, because it's not about the words they're using but, like you said, trying to invoke a response and gain a feeling of superiority. Banning the word is separating the actions from the perpetrator. It's reacting to the effect rather than the cause.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #905 on: June 11, 2012, 04:11:00 PM »

You are being absurd. A racial slur is not the equivalent of childish name calling.

No. I don't think I am. A slur is a slur and "ginger" alienates an entire genetic lineage.

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 20786
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #906 on: June 11, 2012, 04:12:44 PM »
Well, it would certainly make an impact on the use of the word which is what I'm talking about here. Honestly, I really pity the person who doesn't see how it's a slur.

But, it still doesn't deal with the actual problem, which is bullying.

And, honestly, as a slur, ginger is, at worst, on par with calling an African black or a calling Jewish person a Jew. It's only a slur if there is hatred behind it, otherwise, it's just a descriptor.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #907 on: June 11, 2012, 04:15:33 PM »
It's only a slur if there is hatred behind it, otherwise, it's just a descriptor.

... and it usually isn't used any other way unless we're talkin' food here.

Offline bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 20786
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #908 on: June 11, 2012, 04:18:03 PM »
... and it usually isn't used any other way unless we're talkin' food here.

That's just completely untrue. To me and just about everyone I know, a ginger is just a person with specific external features. Like with the term black, only a small segment of small minded people use it as a slur.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26062
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #909 on: June 11, 2012, 04:19:29 PM »
No. I don't think I am. A slur is a slur and "ginger" alienates an entire genetic lineage.

It doesn't represent hundreds of years of oppression, murder and dehumanization. It isn't the basis for legally entrenched systemic discrimination or prejudice. It has no connection to some of the most monstrous acts in human history. That is what you are comparing it to. You are comparing it to words that represented an attitude that it was alright to buy and sell other people as property. To rape and murder them and treat them as farm animals. That is what the particular ethnic slur you've chosen to equate "ginger" to means.

Not hurt feelings on a playground. Not something being used in place of hundreds of other stupid things a kid can say. Not something that, as this thread has shown, isn't even universally agreed upon as to whether or not it's particularly offensive amongst the people being "slurred".

Get a hold of yourself here.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 04:21:44 PM by Nikł »
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline Tigger

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6368
  • You can play
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #910 on: June 11, 2012, 04:21:57 PM »


Kick a ginger day is more offensive to you than kick a red head day? It's the exact same thing to me.

If I was a kid in that school and could get sent to the office for saying ginger I'd do it every day, just to protest how truly absurd that is, then I'd start screaming about auburn inequality.

They'd be  equally offensive if "kick a red-head day" actually existed... and good thing you're not a kid anymore then I guess.

Why, because I'd be thinking for myself and challenging the notion that the word itself is bad rather than the bullying that started it? In fact I'd start a 'kick a Burnsy day' just to get the point across and have them try to ban auburn, red head and ginger.

Heck, I'd try to get chromosome 16 banned while I was at it, just to show how ridiculous it is.

Ginger has been used to describe red hair for a long, long time. I can certainly understand not wanting to be bullied or experience hatred because of your hair colour but that has nothing to do with the word itself.

I mean, what, using 'ginger' is going to make MIA's video come true?
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #911 on: June 11, 2012, 04:24:14 PM »
No. I don't think I am. A slur is a slur and "ginger" alienates an entire genetic lineage.

It doesn't represent hundreds of years of oppression, murder and dehumanization. It isn't the basis for legally entrenched systemic discrimination or prejudice. It has no connection to some of the most monstrous acts in human history. That is what you are comparing it to. You are comparing it to words that represented an attitude that it was alright to buy and sell other people as property. To rape and murder them and treat them as farm animals. That is what the particular ethnic slur you've chosen to equate "ginger" to means.

Not hurt feelings on a playground. Not something being used in place of hundreds of other stupid things a kid can say. Not something that, as this thread has shown, isn't even universally agreed upon as to whether or not it's particularly offensive amongst the people being insulted.

Get a hold of yourself here.

Well, if you cares to actually read the thread you'll see the post where I said "fine" it was a slur more like something else... I don't think I'm the one in need of holding here.

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26062
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #912 on: June 11, 2012, 04:29:58 PM »
Well, if you cares to actually read the thread you'll see the post where I said "fine" it was a slur more like something else... I don't think I'm the one in need of holding here.

I did read that. Then I read after, in reply #897, you again ludicrously equating ginger to the N-Word which prompted my response.

Seriously. You could be making a legitimate point here about the need to curb bullying but instead you've decided to take a position that is ridiculous on it's face. It doesn't matter why a kid is getting bullied. Efforts should be taken to stop it. Kids using a word that many people, as evidenced by this thread, view as benign to bully someone else does not make that word the equivalent of racial slurs. You are embarrassing yourself by saying otherwise.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline hap_leaf

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #913 on: June 11, 2012, 04:30:27 PM »
In casual conversation, I've never experienced "Ginger" as a socially acceptable term.  Never had anyone ask me to kindly take a beer over to "the Ginger" or asked "Have you seen a Ginger come by recently?".  And I think this is because people are unsure of its place in society.
 
I've only experienced this as a semi-derogatory term, the source of funny websites about "gingervitis" (and the South Park episode).  So I can see why someone with red hair would find it awkward.  Should they have the final say if it is offensive or not? 

Offline Sarge

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #914 on: June 11, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »
You are embarrassing yourself by saying otherwise.

 I don't like the slur. It's in poor taste and the level to which it might be compared to is up for debate. Seriously, how can I be embarrassing myself when I believe I'm right?   

TMLfans.ca

Re: The Official Complaint Thread!
« Reply #914 on: June 11, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »