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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: Zee on July 12, 2020, 09:36:06 AM

Title: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 12, 2020, 09:36:06 AM
Leafs roster. No Johnsson

?s=21
Title: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 12, 2020, 10:42:03 AM
Leafs roster. No Johnsson

?s=21

As expected.
Marlie Forwards: Agostino, Korshkov, Robertson, Malgin, Brooks, Gaudet
Marlie Defense: Hollowell, Kivihalme, Liljegren, Rosén
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 12, 2020, 10:53:30 AM
Taylor Hall has been posting Instagram stories from Auston’s pool, so I think it’s safe to assume Matthews is already in Toronto, likely finishing up another 14-day isolation.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 12, 2020, 11:34:28 AM
No Petan is a little surprising. Wonder if it was his decision or the teams.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 12, 2020, 11:34:48 AM
Thanks Carlton

More tellingly, bye Bracco
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on July 12, 2020, 12:02:49 PM
Johnsson still injured, Bracco is eating burgers at his local Wellwood Burger franchise.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Palmateer29 on July 12, 2020, 01:26:51 PM
No line-up guesses yet? I'm shocked.

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Taveres-Nylander
Engvall/Robertson-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Clifford-Gautier-Spezza

Muzzin-Rielly
Barrie-Holl
Dermott-Sandin

Andersen
Campbell

Lots of spare pieces...
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 12, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 12, 2020, 02:45:06 PM
Update. Petan replaces Hollowell
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 12, 2020, 02:53:16 PM
Based on these workout groups,

and also knowing Keefe's philosophies re: rookie experience in playoff conditions (see limited minutes for Bracco and Liljegren's first AHL playoff go arounds), we're likely to start with a more conservative tie goes to the veteran type of line up. Everyone sitting and watching are there to get a feel for the playoff atmosphere and to stay ready and hungry to step in, as long lay-off and compressed play schedule = injuries or sloppy hockey. Having a coach very familiar with the AHL stop-start grind (3 in 3s!) and best of 5 playoff series is a boon in this format.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Mikheyev - Tavares - Marner
Engvall - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Clifford - Gauthier - Spezza

Muzzin - Holl - top-line matchup
Rielly - Ceci - default vs rando depth line
Dermott - Barrie - OZ starts only for Barrie

Andersen
Campbell
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 12, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
No line-up guesses yet? I'm shocked.

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Taveres-Nylander
Engvall/Robertson-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Clifford-Gautier-Spezza

Muzzin-Rielly
Barrie-Holl
Dermott-Sandin

Andersen
Campbell

Lots of spare pieces...

My guess would be they go Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner, if only because there's more long-term history there and it might be easier for those pairs to get up to speed together after the long lay off.

I also think Ceci plays right off the bat. Sandin and Roberston will be the first in line in case changes need to be made.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 12, 2020, 02:55:18 PM
Update. Petan replaces Hollowell

Invalid Tweet IDLMAO
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 12, 2020, 02:59:09 PM

Presumably this means the actual 2nd round of the playoffs, not the round after the qualifying round.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 12, 2020, 09:47:23 PM
Johnston, who has the inside track on Dubas, brings the goods to SDP once again.

In particular:
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 12, 2020, 10:35:33 PM
  • Petan was injured during Phase 2, hence being left off the initial roster until today.

They definitely just forgot about him.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 13, 2020, 09:45:36 AM

Ummm?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 13, 2020, 10:02:10 AM
I'm confused.

Is he trying to make a point about something?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 13, 2020, 10:04:17 AM
Every single response on Twitter is bashing Simmons. I'm enjoying that more than expected.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 13, 2020, 11:22:27 AM

I'm not sure I'd read too much into Nylander and Hyman being on opposite wings. Sometimes it's just a typo or one-off thing.

This sets up Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner to be the other big line, and probably Clifford-Gauthier-Spezza as the 4th line.

Also probably means Muzzin-Holl is the shutdown pairing and Dermott-Barrie is the offensive/sheltered pairing.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 11:27:14 AM
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Mikheyev - Tavares - Marner
Engvall - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Clifford - Gauthier - Spezza

Muzzin - Holl - top-line matchup
Rielly - Ceci - default vs rando depth line
Dermott - Barrie - OZ starts only for Barrie

Andersen
Campbell

WHAT'S MY PRIZE?!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 11:29:26 AM
THIS IS NOT IT
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 13, 2020, 11:31:07 AM
So I guess when a team doesn't explain an absence, we're to assume COVID?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 12:47:12 PM

LUCKY
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 13, 2020, 12:47:37 PM
Matthews confirmed he tested positive but said he was basically asymptomatic and it didn't affect his training.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 13, 2020, 12:49:13 PM
Every single response on Twitter is bashing Simmons. I'm enjoying that more than expected.

I have no idea how he's stayed employed all these years with a regular media job.  Ok it's the Sun but still, I thought he'd have gone the way of Howard Berger long ago.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 12:49:29 PM
Matthews confirmed he tested positive but said he was basically asymptomatic and it didn't affect his training.

I can't believe you aren't crediting me with this scoop
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 01:21:49 PM
OMFG
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 13, 2020, 01:32:12 PM
Matthews confirmed he tested positive but said he was basically asymptomatic and it didn't affect his training.

I can't believe you aren't crediting me with this scoop

LOL, c'mon it was like 20 seconds after you posted, I didn't even know you had posted it before I did.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 01:45:05 PM
Matthews confirmed he tested positive but said he was basically asymptomatic and it didn't affect his training.

I can't believe you aren't crediting me with this scoop

LOL, c'mon it was like 20 seconds after you posted, I didn't even know you had posted it before I did.

I can't believe you didn't understand my joke and in now having to explain it, it is ruined forever.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 13, 2020, 01:46:17 PM
OMFG

Credit to Robertson there, but WTF was Muzzin doing going in front of the net like that?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 13, 2020, 01:47:51 PM
Matthews confirmed he tested positive but said he was basically asymptomatic and it didn't affect his training.

I can't believe you aren't crediting me with this scoop

LOL, c'mon it was like 20 seconds after you posted, I didn't even know you had posted it before I did.

I can't believe you didn't understand my joke and in now having to explain it, it is ruined forever.

Just for the record, I understood the reference.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 13, 2020, 01:57:00 PM
Matthews confirmed he tested positive but said he was basically asymptomatic and it didn't affect his training.

I can't believe you aren't crediting me with this scoop

LOL, c'mon it was like 20 seconds after you posted, I didn't even know you had posted it before I did.

I can't believe you didn't understand my joke and in now having to explain it, it is ruined forever.

It's my first day back at work since June 30th, I'm in a bad place right now.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 02:20:17 PM
Meanwhile, I am merely unfit.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 05:40:26 PM
Can’t believe I missed this earlier
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 13, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
OMFG

Credit to Robertson there, but WTF was Muzzin doing going in front of the net like that?

No kidding. While it's just practice, that was a terrible decision.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 13, 2020, 05:57:25 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: princedpw on July 13, 2020, 06:10:12 PM
OMFG

I watched that clip 6 times.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: princedpw on July 13, 2020, 06:11:23 PM
All this getting excited for a new season and I need to calm down.  The leafs may only play 3 games.  Sigh.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: princedpw on July 13, 2020, 06:12:11 PM

LUCKY

He was out at so many bars in AZ, it's nearly impossible to tell which one he got it at.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
https://theathletic.com/1927532/2020/07/14/mirtle-auston-matthews-becomes-the-reluctant-face-of-nhl-players-with-covid-19/

Quote
In fact, of all those having tested positive leaguewide, we know just one name: Auston Matthews. That’s thanks to a Toronto Sun report last month which revealed his results, something the Leafs star had declined to comment on until camp opened Monday in Toronto.

Those close to the 22-year-old said that he had been disappointed and frustrated by the fact he was “outed” as a confirmed case against his will, even as the identities of every other infected NHL player have, to date, been protected. Many media outlets, including The Athletic, have declined to identify players against their will, even as cases have multiplied rapidly across the sporting world.

[...]

When the initial report about Matthews came out last month, some player agents were outraged that his privacy had been violated. He wasn’t even with his team, they said, and the test result wasn’t going to impact his ability to play. (Matthews’ agent, Judd Moldaver, declined to comment for this story.)

“That was totally out of line,” said one high profile agent, who declined to be identified.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-auston-matthews-became-first-player-discuss-positive-covid-19-test
Quote
The willingness to address questions about the positive COVID-19 result head-on follows the same tact he’s taken with every injury he’s endured as a member of the Maple Leafs. It also to this point sets him apart from his NHL peers, at least 50 of whom have registered a positive test in anonymity since mid-March.

That’s an individual choice.

Where there is tension to this situation is that Matthews didn’t choose to have news of his result first appear in a sourced story by Toronto Sun columnist Steve Simmons on June 19. But that doesn’t change the fact he could easily have sidestepped the follow-up questions Monday, especially with the veil of secrecy the NHL is draping over every injury, illness and absence right now.

[...]

The hope here is that Matthews’ openness might help remove any unnecessary stigma other NHLers associate with a positive test. There is value to sharing our experiences, particularly when it pertains to an issue of such great public interest.

A pandemic becomes much less of an abstract idea to the public when someone of this stature normalizes it — which, quite coincidentally, one of Matthews’ favourite athletes Russell Westbrook did Monday by following the NBA trend of announcing positive tests.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 14, 2020, 09:45:35 AM
Steve's reaction to that article: AHA SO HE ADMITS IT
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: L K on July 14, 2020, 09:59:24 AM
Steve's reaction to that article: AHA SO HE ADMITS IT

I still don't understand why there isn't more accountability on giving/losing press passes.  He's being a whiny jackass.  So be spiteful back and let him cover the Leafs from the parking lot.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 14, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
Jonas Siegel reported that Liljegren was at the Leafs' practice facility yesterday and was seen speaking to the teams head athletic therapist (both wearing masks). That possibly suggests whatever made him "unfit to participate" is something that wouldn't necessitate him to say quarantine away from everyone else.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 14, 2020, 10:33:31 AM

Mac's back
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 14, 2020, 10:39:50 AM
Does that mean Liljegren is out of the tournament?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 14, 2020, 10:41:46 AM
Does that mean Liljegren is out of the tournament?

Dubas talked about Johnsson potentially returning later in the playoffs so I'd imagine players on the IR (assuming thats whats up with Lily) can still play when cleared.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 10:44:18 AM
Jonas Siegel reported that Liljegren was at the Leafs' practice facility yesterday and was seen speaking to the teams head athletic therapist (both wearing masks). That possibly suggests whatever made him "unfit to participate" is something that wouldn't necessitate him to say quarantine away from everyone else.

Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 14, 2020, 10:54:43 AM
Yeeachh...another hole on the right side.  I was looking forward to watching him play, so I hope it's nothing serious.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 14, 2020, 11:39:51 AM
Yeeachh...another hole on the right side.  I was looking forward to watching him play, so I hope it's nothing serious.

I would imagine he was at best 8th on the Leafs depth chart right now with Sandin ahead of him, maybe even Mari--- nevermind let's just say 8th.

But again we really have no idea what the deal is with him, and because of the leagues secrecy regarding any injuries we might not get any more information. But it's entirely possible he's back in 2 weeks when games start, although granted missing this camp would make things tougher for him to get up to the speed the other guys are at.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 14, 2020, 12:05:09 PM
Yeeachh...another hole on the right side.  I was looking forward to watching him play, so I hope it's nothing serious.

I would imagine he was at best 8th on the Leafs depth chart right now with Sandin ahead of him, maybe even Mari--- nevermind let's just say 8th.


Don't.  Don't you dare.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 12:30:05 PM
Yeeachh...another hole on the right side.  I was looking forward to watching him play, so I hope it's nothing serious.

I would imagine he was at best 8th on the Leafs depth chart right now with Sandin ahead of him, maybe even Mari--- nevermind let's just say 8th.

But again we really have no idea what the deal is with him, and because of the leagues secrecy regarding any injuries we might not get any more information. But it's entirely possible he's back in 2 weeks when games start, although granted missing this camp would make things tougher for him to get up to the speed the other guys are at.

Liljegren remains on-site to observe practice.

and this is something he's watching:
(while Marner is getting PK reps)
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 12:39:24 PM
I see they’re finally using my idea of double PP shifting Matthews as a semi-stationary turret (Ovechkin-style)... Willy stayed out there too
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 02:28:53 PM
Here we are building up the confidence of our goaltenders.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 14, 2020, 04:22:37 PM
That really simulates normal game play.  Super surprised he scored there.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 04:37:04 PM
Would the NHL have cleaner games and higher scores if they did 'free throws*' for the hockey-equivalent of technical fouls on top of the 2 min-5min PP (e.g. instigator, checking from behind, slewfoot, headshot)?

* stationary shot from the slot between the dots by player of team's choosing (on the ice).
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frycer14 on July 14, 2020, 06:51:13 PM
Would the NHL have cleaner games and higher scores if they did 'free throws*' for the hockey-equivalent of technical fouls on top of the 2 min-5min PP (e.g. instigator, checking from behind, slewfoot, headshot)?

* stationary shot from the slot between the dots by player of team's choosing (on the ice).

Only if they have to do it on a unicycle.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 14, 2020, 07:40:27 PM
Would the NHL have cleaner games and higher scores if they did 'free throws*' for the hockey-equivalent of technical fouls on top of the 2 min-5min PP (e.g. instigator, checking from behind, slewfoot, headshot)?

* stationary shot from the slot between the dots by player of team's choosing (on the ice).

Only if they have to do it on a unicycle.

Blindfolded.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 14, 2020, 08:02:53 PM
Leafs vs Habs in 2 weeks for our tune-up game :D
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 14, 2020, 09:10:02 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-mikheyev-turned-injury-pandemic-blessings-disguise/

Mikheyev stayed in Toronto to rehab, even after the pause kicked in.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on July 14, 2020, 10:32:36 PM
Would the NHL have cleaner games and higher scores if they did 'free throws*' for the hockey-equivalent of technical fouls on top of the 2 min-5min PP (e.g. instigator, checking from behind, slewfoot, headshot)?

* stationary shot from the slot between the dots by player of team's choosing (on the ice).

On every penalty, the team about to go a man up gets to choose between a penalty shot or a full two minute 5 on 4 regardless of how many goals they score.

Tell me that doesn't make for a better game.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 14, 2020, 11:33:45 PM
Would the NHL have cleaner games and higher scores if they did 'free throws*' for the hockey-equivalent of technical fouls on top of the 2 min-5min PP (e.g. instigator, checking from behind, slewfoot, headshot)?

* stationary shot from the slot between the dots by player of team's choosing (on the ice).

On every penalty, the team about to go a man up gets to choose between a penalty shot or a full two minute 5 on 4 regardless of how many goals they score.

Tell me that doesn't make for a better game.

Just make the nets 4 feet bigger.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 08:09:12 AM
Would the NHL have cleaner games and higher scores if they did 'free throws*' for the hockey-equivalent of technical fouls on top of the 2 min-5min PP (e.g. instigator, checking from behind, slewfoot, headshot)?

* stationary shot from the slot between the dots by player of team's choosing (on the ice).

On every penalty, the team about to go a man up gets to choose between a penalty shot or a full two minute 5 on 4 regardless of how many goals they score.

Tell me that doesn't make for a better game.

That sounds fun!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/07/15/toronto-maple-leafs-sheldon-keefe-we-fully-expect-our-guys-to-be-better-defensively-when-we-come-back/

Keefe is going to be going up against his mentor and former coach, John Tortorella

Most of the Leafs have already been small group practicing leading up to this training camp (~25 players!); conditioning for a few who had different circumstances to contend with will need to catch up, but this has afforded the Leafs the ability to focus more of the camp on structure and strategy, rather than getting bodies up to speed.

Quote
The nature of Ilya Mikheyev’s injury being what it is — have you seen any evidence of his arm or wrist affecting his shot or the way he handles the puck?

Keefe: No, I have seen none of it. In fact, I think he is shooting better, which I don’t think is to do with the wrist necessarily but just the amount of time he has been able to work at his game from an individual skills standpoint. I know Denver Manderson worked a lot with him — one of our development consultants — and he was able to get lots of time with that.

Miky, first of all, loves to work. He loves to be at the rink and loves to be on the ice. He and Jake Muzzin might have taken a week or two off here or there, but for the most part through the four months, they have been on the ice all of the time. They haven’t really taken any time off.

He is really ahead of the game here. I think he has really added some pieces, and the shot is the big thing. He scored a goal yesterday in the scrimmage. In practice, the way the puck is coming off of his stick, particularly off of the pass, is impressive. I think that is an addition to his game that is going to serve him well.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 09:59:43 AM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/07/15/toronto-maple-leafs-kyle-dubas-on-defensive-game/

If the RTP goes through, we will get a chance to see a pretty healthy Leaf squad with the foundation/philosophy of play that the head coach intends. With the mid-season switch, Keefe only got to tweak Babcock’s set up.

Quote
This break was a great opportunity for Sheldon and the coaching staff to really begin to develop a greater relationship with the players after coming in mid-season and work with them more one-on-one without the daily regiment of practices and games influencing how much time he can spend with everybody.

I think that will be a really positive thing. Also for us, it allowed us the chance to really hammer home to various players on the team what we were expecting — not only in their on-ice play but in their off-ice engagement and so on and so forth — and try to take steps forward and continue to progress as a team.

[...]

The thing that I was probably most impressed with is that Sheldon and the coaching staff took time to dig deep into every player’s game and used all of the departments we had here — whether it’s player development, R&D, coaching, hockey operations in general — and take this time to build a stronger database, which you probably wouldn’t be able to do as a coaching staff in mid-March and April when you are in the stretch drive and playoffs.

They used that to then open dialogue with the players about what they saw their strengths as versus what we saw their strengths as a team, and where they wanted to invest their time in development versus what we do.

So they were able to use this break to do full performance reviews and collaborate on development tracks to aim for strategic alignment.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 15, 2020, 10:07:00 AM
So they were able to use this break to do full performance reviews and collaborate on development tracks to aim for strategic alignment.

 ;D


Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on July 15, 2020, 10:29:19 AM

Big change. He's been on Leafs broadcasts as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 15, 2020, 10:32:53 AM
I'll miss his softball first questions in the scrums. 
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 15, 2020, 10:58:17 AM
Man I remember Hendrick from way back in the 80s when he was doing sports on CHCH.  Gonna be weird not seeing / hearing him anymore.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 10:59:42 AM
I'll miss his softball first questions in the scrums.

“Questions”
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 15, 2020, 11:13:51 AM

I know we aren't meant to take this super seriously... but they couldn't have put the Matthews and Tavares lines on separate teams?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 15, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Must be looking to tune-up Andersen.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 11:18:03 AM
I know we aren't meant to take this super seriously... but they couldn't have put the Matthews and Tavares lines on separate teams?

I think the aim is to give each side of Offense and Defense/Goaltender the hardest matchup because Andersen and the top 4 defense are on the other side of the top-6 forwards
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
https://theathletic.com/1927863/2020/07/15/why-nick-robertson-is-going-to-force-his-way-into-the-maple-leafs-lineup/
Yes, please.

I worry a bit about his hunched-over stride, because his head is basically elbow height on most players he's going up against, but that also makes him that much harder to push off the puck.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 15, 2020, 11:27:38 AM
I'll miss his softball first questions in the scrums.

“Questions”

I know, as much as I like him he just didn't ask any questions worth asking.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 11:30:13 AM
I'll miss his softball first questions in the scrums.

“Questions”

I know, as much as I like him he just didn't ask any questions worth asking.

He literally just made statements and waited for a cliche reaction. But he is a wonderful (especially to players still learning English) and universally liked person who would occasionally dunk on 'fans' who griped online without reasonable cause, so I'll definitely miss that.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on July 15, 2020, 12:03:43 PM

It's good that you guys are contrasting him with all of the hard hitting and incisive news we get from the other media guys in locker room scrums.

Jesus, some people.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
Lol Gauthier scored too and when he does, his team wins
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on July 15, 2020, 01:22:41 PM
Did you know that the Goat scored one less goal than Marner in the last 25 games played?
Unless the Goat!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 15, 2020, 02:21:00 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 15, 2020, 02:54:28 PM
Lol Gauthier scored too and when he does, his team wins

Didn't Gauthier typically have good training camps...it's just when real games start that he disappears?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 03:06:37 PM
Boo, didn't want us colluding with the officials, eh?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
So bad at defense, amirite
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 15, 2020, 03:26:41 PM
So bad at defense, amirite

I think I'm going to regret this, but I think the criticism of Nylander's defense is in the defensive/neutral zones.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on July 15, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
I think I'm going to regret this, but I think the criticism of Nylander's defense is in the defensive/neutral zones.

He's pretty good with takeaways and breaking up plays in the neutral zone, too. But, like the offensive zone, that's not really an area people focus on when talking about defensive play (except for when players are exceptionally good at it). The criticisms are mostly about how he doesn't look engaged in the defensive zone, which has some merit. He's also not a physical defender, which can be effective - it's just less noticeable, and, therefore, less appreciated. He's not a super strong positional defender, but he can improve there. He'll never be a physical defender, and that's okay. His team still has the puck more when he's on the ice, and that's what's most important.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 15, 2020, 04:08:30 PM
I think I'm going to regret this, but I think the criticism of Nylander's defense is in the defensive/neutral zones.

He's pretty good with takeaways and breaking up plays in the neutral zone, too. But, like the offensive zone, that's not really an area people focus on when talking about defensive play (except for when players are exceptionally good at it). The criticisms are mostly about how he doesn't look engaged in the defensive zone, which has some merit. He's also not a physical defender, which can be effective - it's just less noticeable, and, therefore, less appreciated. He's not a super strong positional defender, but he can improve there. He'll never be a physical defender, and that's okay. His team still has the puck more when he's on the ice, and that's what's most important.

OK, I got it.  You're saying he's still a garbage defender. 
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 04:39:36 PM
Komarov might've been our last forward who was actually good positionally in the D-zone.

Matthews and Nylander are 1a and 1b for our forwards in the NZ for defense: takeaways, contesting exits and entries, etc.

Nylander isn't outright bad at DZ play; it's also not the wingers' primary function nor are wingers generally very impactful on defensive metrics. I agree with busta that it has a lot to do with how he looks when he's defending.

These are Nylander's offensive and defensive shot plots this past season. You'll note there wasn't much in terms of shots against coming from his side of the ice, and a whole lot going the other way.
(https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocOffWi/1920/TOR/nylanwi96) (https://hockeyviz.com/player/nylanwi96/TOR/1920)](https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1920/TOR/nylanwi96) (http://[url=https://hockeyviz.com/player/nylanwi96/TOR/1920)
His net isolated xG% by hockeyviz' model was +20%, just behind Matthews' +23% and ahead of Marner's +19%
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 15, 2020, 07:47:00 PM

It's good that you guys are contrasting him with all of the hard hitting and incisive news we get from the other media guys in locker room scrums.

Jesus, some people.
Different degrees with different reporters.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 15, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
Boo, didn't want us colluding with the officials, eh?
This sounds so ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 15, 2020, 08:15:53 PM
Stone hands Hyman puts away a touchpass from Willy for one of his two scrimmage goals.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 15, 2020, 09:49:21 PM
Boo, didn't want us colluding with the officials, eh?
This sounds so ridiculous.
To be honest, if I were another team, I'd complain, too.  If the Leafs are paying the refs to be there, there's an obvious conflict of interest in ensuring their future objectivity.  And if the team isn't paying them and the refs are volunteering and doing it to stay sharp and in shape, then the officials are interacting with the players in a casual setting that borders on fraternization, which also arguably threatens future objectivity, or at the very least the appearance of objectivity.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 15, 2020, 10:44:59 PM
Boo, didn't want us colluding with the officials, eh?
This sounds so ridiculous.
To be honest, if I were another team, I'd complain, too.  If the Leafs are paying the refs to be there, there's an obvious conflict of interest in ensuring their future objectivity.  And if the team isn't paying them and the refs are volunteering and doing it to stay sharp and in shape, then the officials are interacting with the players in a casual setting that borders on fraternization, which also arguably threatens future objectivity, or at the very least the appearance of objectivity.
I get it, but I would hope that refs are professional, and therefore reffing in training camp wouldn't affect their judgment in actual games, but I get it.

At the same time I also think if the Leafs have the means to do this then that's the perk of being part of a franchise with a large fanbase.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 16, 2020, 07:25:46 AM
I think I'm going to regret this, but I think the criticism of Nylander's defense is in the defensive/neutral zones.

He's pretty good with takeaways and breaking up plays in the neutral zone, too. But, like the offensive zone, that's not really an area people focus on when talking about defensive play (except for when players are exceptionally good at it). The criticisms are mostly about how he doesn't look engaged in the defensive zone, which has some merit. He's also not a physical defender, which can be effective - it's just less noticeable, and, therefore, less appreciated. He's not a super strong positional defender, but he can improve there. He'll never be a physical defender, and that's okay. His team still has the puck more when he's on the ice, and that's what's most important.

I think a big thing people take issue with is his back check. Often, when you see a goal scored on the rush by the opposing team, Nylander is seen coasting. I've never really taken issue with it as not everyone should be back checking hard to the net. But, in the least, he should be picking up a man.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 16, 2020, 07:28:37 AM
Boo, didn't want us colluding with the officials, eh?
This sounds so ridiculous.
To be honest, if I were another team, I'd complain, too.  If the Leafs are paying the refs to be there, there's an obvious conflict of interest in ensuring their future objectivity.  And if the team isn't paying them and the refs are volunteering and doing it to stay sharp and in shape, then the officials are interacting with the players in a casual setting that borders on fraternization, which also arguably threatens future objectivity, or at the very least the appearance of objectivity.
I get it, but I would hope that refs are professional, and therefore reffing in training camp wouldn't affect their judgment in actual games, but I get it.

At the same time I also think if the Leafs have the means to do this then that's the perk of being part of a franchise with a large fanbase.

Why couldn't they just hire a couple OHL referees?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 16, 2020, 08:16:57 AM
I get it, but I would hope that refs are professional, and therefore reffing in training camp wouldn't affect their judgment in actual games, but I get it.

If other teams seriously think that refs are this easily influenced then we have a much, much larger issue at hand here.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on July 16, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
I get it, but I would hope that refs are professional, and therefore reffing in training camp wouldn't affect their judgment in actual games, but I get it.

If other teams seriously think that refs are this easily influenced then we have a much, much larger issue at hand here.

I don't know if it's so much a serious belief as it is the reality that even the appearance of a conflict of interest should be avoided.You really do want things to be above reproach when it comes to a relationship between teams and officials.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 16, 2020, 08:53:53 AM
I don't see the point of Leafs hiring actual refs for their split squad scrimmages.  You want the games as realistic as possible but you didn't have to go to that extreme.   Anyone with hockey knowledge that could skate could have served as the defacto refs for the scrimmages.  I get what the Leafs are trying to do just think it's a bit extreme in this instance.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 16, 2020, 09:14:16 AM


Boo, didn't want us colluding with the officials, eh?
This sounds so ridiculous.
To be honest, if I were another team, I'd complain, too.  If the Leafs are paying the refs to be there, there's an obvious conflict of interest in ensuring their future objectivity.  And if the team isn't paying them and the refs are volunteering and doing it to stay sharp and in shape, then the officials are interacting with the players in a casual setting that borders on fraternization, which also arguably threatens future objectivity, or at the very least the appearance of objectivity.
I get it, but I would hope that refs are professional, and therefore reffing in training camp wouldn't affect their judgment in actual games, but I get it.

At the same time I also think if the Leafs have the means to do this then that's the perk of being part of a franchise with a large fanbase.

Why couldn't they just hire a couple OHL referees?

Because there's a pandemic and they'd have to be living within the bubble and abiding by its rules.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 16, 2020, 02:44:23 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 17, 2020, 10:19:48 AM
This drill appears to be about winning board battles with your hips/feet
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 17, 2020, 11:07:26 AM

Not that this is a surprise, but the game 1 line-up seems pretty locked in.

I wasn't sure what to make of Nylander being on the left side when the line-ups first started getting posted, but it seems like it's something they're sticking with. I feel like that's more to Hyman's benefit though.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 17, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
(During phase 2 small group practices, which was obvious from the grouping)
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: louisstamos on July 17, 2020, 02:39:14 PM
(During phase 2 small group practices, which was obvious from the grouping)

I mean, if this means no Ceci in the top 4 - I'm in.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 17, 2020, 04:18:42 PM

The boys are BACK JACK.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on July 17, 2020, 04:54:31 PM
Ya no more Ceci Ryder would make us happy!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 18, 2020, 01:29:20 PM
Someone’s been training the Leafs to show corner and go 5 hole

Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 19, 2020, 11:59:49 AM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 19, 2020, 12:33:48 PM
I have ideas! Today is try stuff out day, and a lot of it is what we want to see in offseason training camps. Back pocket combinations in case of weird game situations

I’d want to see at the next practice:
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Korshkov
Nylander - Matthews - Kapanen
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 19, 2020, 12:35:40 PM
Andersen has been getting rocked in these scrimmages (he is facing our top 6 after all); this is partly getting his timing back with game flow situations and he’s also working in some new equipment.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 19, 2020, 12:47:25 PM
Classic Marner. Is Shilton an Ender’s Game fan?

Why isn’t there a stream of this?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 19, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Marner to Nylander, but Andersen is up to the task against the notes cherry picker.

This one is unstoppable. Stretch passes on the menu to get around the Columbus forecheck

Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 19, 2020, 11:45:38 PM
That's some beautiful playmaking.

Doesn't make our defense look too good though.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 20, 2020, 03:23:21 PM
Scrimmage today (or will it be tomorrow? it's tomorrow, not doing B2Bs yet) at 4pm, as Keefe has been scheduling them to match the weird hours the RTP will operate under.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 21, 2020, 12:36:17 PM
OH DANG
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 21, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
God I'd kill to find out what Gauthier has on everyone in the Leafs organization. Engvall's also 6'5" and he kills penalties!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 21, 2020, 01:15:15 PM
I'm sure it's in this thread already, but is there a timeline on Johnsson's return?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: louisstamos on July 21, 2020, 01:15:51 PM
I'm sure it's in this thread already, but is there a timeline on Johnsson's return?

If all goes well, 2nd playoff round.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 21, 2020, 04:15:42 PM
I like the insertion of Robertson, since it's going to be about skill, jump and hunger in that first round. Team D will be so incredibly rusty for everyone.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 21, 2020, 04:17:58 PM
Freddie is rounding back into form
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 21, 2020, 04:28:29 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Deebo on July 21, 2020, 05:51:37 PM
Freddie is rounding back into form

Ceci serving it up in the slot for the opposition
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 21, 2020, 06:31:17 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/clash-mcdavid-boosted-leafs-trust-muzzin-holl-shutdown-pair/
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 21, 2020, 07:35:20 PM
Ceci serving it up in the slot for the opposition

I'm going to be charitable and say that was a bump out under duress to his support partner Dermott that handcuffed him and went through the wickets. Wouldn't mind if he just pinned it to the boards back there for a bit instead.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 22, 2020, 08:13:06 AM
Ceci serving it up in the slot for the opposition

I'm going to be charitable and say that was a bump out under duress to his support partner Dermott that handcuffed him and went through the wickets. Wouldn't mind if he just pinned it to the boards back there for a bit instead.

While we're at it...what was Engvall doing?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 22, 2020, 08:23:57 AM
Ceci serving it up in the slot for the opposition

I'm going to be charitable and say that was a bump out under duress to his support partner Dermott that handcuffed him and went through the wickets. Wouldn't mind if he just pinned it to the boards back there for a bit instead.

While we're at it...what was Engvall doing?

Losing his roster spot to an 18-year old.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 22, 2020, 10:23:59 AM
Ceci serving it up in the slot for the opposition

I'm going to be charitable and say that was a bump out under duress to his support partner Dermott that handcuffed him and went through the wickets. Wouldn't mind if he just pinned it to the boards back there for a bit instead.

While we're at it...what was Engvall doing?

Losing his roster spot to an 18-year old.
From all I've read/heard, Robertson has been very impressive.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 22, 2020, 11:57:28 AM
All this says to me is that Engvall is a very known quantity to Keefe, and Robertson brings up questions he wants to answer, so the practices are where information is gathered to answer said questions. The floor on Engvall is, at worst, 4th line adequate; he's not going to cost them the game, but he's also not likely to break a game open.

If Robertson can consistently push the third line into offensively rolling over its match up, a la Pittsburgh's HBK trio, then pull the trigger on that change. If not, we still have a very speedy and pesty third line that should be springing Kapanen on hail mary forays.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on July 22, 2020, 12:16:23 PM
All this says to me is that Engvall is a very known quantity to Keefe, and Robertson brings up questions he wants to answer, so the practices are where information is gathered to answer said questions. The floor on Engvall is, at worst, 4th line adequate; he's not going to cost them the game, but he's also not likely to break a game open.

If Robertson can consistently push the third line into offensively rolling over its match up, a la Pittsburgh's HBK trio, then pull the trigger on that change. If not, we still have a very speedy and pesty third line that should be springing Kapanen on hail mary forays.

That's probably a fair characterization. Robertson is an unknown at this level, but he's also not going to be thrown into the lineup on the 4th line. A risk-free opportunity to see how he meshes with his potential linemates is something the team is obviously happy to take advantage of.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on July 22, 2020, 01:40:41 PM
The kid is like Hyman on steroids, a human buzz saw of action with what Tavares calls a very heavy shot. Going to give us a lot more offence than the Giraffe who can now go back and play with his friend and Marlies linemate, the Goat.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 22, 2020, 02:57:02 PM

A Johnsson sighting!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 22, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
All this says to me is that Engvall is a very known quantity to Keefe, and Robertson brings up questions he wants to answer, so the practices are where information is gathered to answer said questions. The floor on Engvall is, at worst, 4th line adequate; he's not going to cost them the game, but he's also not likely to break a game open.

If Robertson can consistently push the third line into offensively rolling over its match up, a la Pittsburgh's HBK trio, then pull the trigger on that change. If not, we still have a very speedy and pesty third line that should be springing Kapanen on hail mary forays.

That's probably a fair characterization. Robertson is an unknown at this level, but he's also not going to be thrown into the lineup on the 4th line. A risk-free opportunity to see how he meshes with his potential linemates is something the team is obviously happy to take advantage of.

There's no downside to trying. Engvall has been pretty good on the PK, but Robertson is also being tried out for all three phases of the game and adds a potent option on PP2.

Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 22, 2020, 04:18:46 PM
Barrie still can't do 2-on-1s. Campbell has looked good against the bottom six's attack which is equal parts positive and negative.

Holl took a puck in the face before the scrimmage during drills and had to go off for repairs. Dermott switched teams to fill in with Muzzin to try to help Team Andersen stave off elimination.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 22, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
um whut
Shades of Mogilny on this play
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 22, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
Marincin out with the big boys in OT to win the game.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 22, 2020, 04:48:04 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frycer14 on July 22, 2020, 06:40:28 PM
I feel sort of bad for Engvall. He played some terrific games in his call up, sure he tailed off a bit later in the season, but he doesn't deserve to be the odd man out.

What has Clifford contributed? At least let Engvall step in on the 4th line.

Any way you slice it, if you like Mikeyev, you're making some pretty significant roster moves in the offseason. Kapanen or Jonsson, and if Robertson is ready to step in next year, maybe both.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 23, 2020, 05:48:06 AM
Barrie still can't do 2-on-1s.


It was actually a 3 on 1. Pretty hooped no matter what he did there.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 23, 2020, 08:57:13 AM
It was actually a 3 on 1. Pretty hooped no matter what he did there.

Like Kapanen, I too did not see the better, third option.
* I know he faked going high slot to no-looker backdoor which is very smart and creative and man Kapanen really should be on the 1st line somewhere eh
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 23, 2020, 03:56:57 PM

Finally.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 23, 2020, 04:21:56 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 23, 2020, 04:26:21 PM
Goodbye Johnsson and Kapanen.

Mikheyev, here's your cheque.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 23, 2020, 04:41:43 PM
Goodbye Johnsson and Kapanen.

Mikheyev, here's your cheque.

Ja, that was pretty juicy.  Wrist looks OK to me.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 23, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 23, 2020, 05:06:54 PM
I was taught in floor hockey that your feet are two extra sticks

Hattie for Miky
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 23, 2020, 05:11:11 PM

That was a really great little play by Mikheyev.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 23, 2020, 05:14:15 PM
Mickey's having himself a game. Looking good. Mitch looks slick as ever.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 23, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
Malgin?

Frank probably won't know how to feel about this one.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 23, 2020, 05:45:05 PM
Garbage.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: princedpw on July 23, 2020, 05:56:22 PM
What was the score? 14-11?  Do we need to worry about defending?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on July 23, 2020, 06:05:01 PM
What was the score? 14-11?  Do we need to worry about defending?
We have more firepower than The Wild Bunch.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 23, 2020, 06:55:40 PM
Remembering Hockey has become Witnessing Hockey again. And it's awesome.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 23, 2020, 10:49:03 PM
I don't know about you, but provisionally I'm going with the interpretation that these sequences are indicative of actual forthcoming competitive play.

Except my boy Rassy looked kind of useless on a couple of those.  :( :( :-X :-X :P
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 24, 2020, 11:27:49 AM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/07/23/sheldon-keefe-on-nick-robertson/

Keefe has some good things to say about Robertson and his adaptation to NHL play, Kapanen’s pop, and Spezza’s spezziness
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 24, 2020, 12:21:43 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/07/23/sheldon-keefe-on-nick-robertson/

Keefe has some good things to say about Robertson and his adaptation to NHL play, Kapanen’s pop, and Spezza’s spezziness

At the bottom of this Keefe talks a bit about Johnsson and mentions that he's been skating "for a better part of a month now on the ice". I just assumed that clip of him skating a few days ago was the first time he'd been back on the ice.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on July 24, 2020, 12:28:21 PM
Don't further damage the trade goods.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 25, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
Willy immediately snaps a photo for Instagram
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on July 25, 2020, 01:03:16 PM
I can't believe I'll be watching hockey in a few days.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 25, 2020, 01:25:21 PM
Ya. I'll have to figure out how, because I finally cut the cable cord.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 25, 2020, 01:39:48 PM
Well well well
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 25, 2020, 01:50:26 PM
Exhibition game on the 28th will allow an extra forward and defenseman. Fully expect to see the Robertson-Engvall-Gauthier question be played out on the ice; 7th defenseman is either Sandin or Marincin and I’m thinking it’ll be Sandin for exhibition because we know what Marty brings.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 25, 2020, 02:28:54 PM
Well well well

Really wasn't sure Robertson would get in game 1, but looks like he's forced Keefe's hand. It's really the most obvious play. This gives the Leafs a lot of flexibility since Engvall can still jump into the 3rd line for defensive situations when need be. Goat just doesn't have a role on the team as a just 4th line guy, especially with Clifford being there as well.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 25, 2020, 08:33:17 PM

No clear cut Marlies: Brooks, Korshkov, Gaudet, Agostino?!, Kivihalme, Hollowell

Liljegren still in it, even though he has not been fit to practice. Johnsson, expected to become available around the 2nd playoff round had to be included in this list if they wanted to activate him.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 26, 2020, 12:08:53 PM

Korshkov, now out of the RTP running, will be playing in the KHL until the next NHL season kicks back into gear, preventing him from too long a layoff.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 26, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
Don't blame him one bit for wanting to take an opportunity like that considering how much of a question mark the 20/21 AHL season is right now. He does still have one more year on his contract with the Leafs though so presumably they would need to approve this/loan him to that KHL team.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 26, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
He’s probably going there to work as a player-scout to woo future ELC signings (https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/265764/denis-alexeyev).
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 26, 2020, 04:05:15 PM
Games this week:
Tuesday, July 28th - Exibition - Leafs vs Habs
Sunday, August 2nd - Game 1 - Eastern Conference Qualifier - Leafs vs Jackets

 :D
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 26, 2020, 05:40:09 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 26, 2020, 09:10:37 PM
I was gonna say they have decent mid tier forwards and two good defensemen, but as I look at their stat totals they actually don't have much there. As much as people are saying watch out CBJ wasn't healthy all year... I mean, ok, but their ppg stats are mostly not good also.

The thing with us was we also weren't healthy, had Babcock sewer our season right off the hop and Freddy was giving us subpar goaltending, questionable defense notwithstanding (Didn't we also have Rielly AND Muzz gone at the same time??) I think this series is in the bag if Freddy can give us literally average goaltending.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 26, 2020, 10:20:50 PM
The only forwards of theirs I'm wary of is Freddie's fellow redheaded birthcity buddy, Oliver Bjorkstrand, and sort of Pierre Luc-Dubois who puts up early Kadri numbers.

Their backend mobility and frustratingly heavy and effective 1-2-2 forecheck are the real weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8wMUF4AQvU
This past season's goals in Blue Jackets vs Leafs games

We never played them under Keefe. They couldn't handle Marner, except when PK-ing. Matthews made Ferraro moan on tv. For a team that has a vaunted net-front defense, the Leafs put in quite a number of uncontested tap-ins and our sputtering PP did a lot of the damage. Most of Flavourtown's goals on Freddie were because a weird bounce pulled him out of position and they had a mostly open net.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 11:12:30 AM

err, not sure we need Kyle Clifford anymore.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 27, 2020, 11:33:51 AM
Have y'all not seen Engvall?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 11:35:56 AM
Have y'all not seen Engvall?

Giraffes are peaceful creatures.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on July 27, 2020, 11:38:04 AM
Have y'all not seen Engvall?

Giraffes are peaceful creatures.

Pfft. How many giraffes have you seen in the wild?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 11:40:19 AM
Have y'all not seen Engvall?

Giraffes are peaceful creatures.

Pfft. How many giraffes have you seen in the wild?

The closest I could say would be that scene in TLOU.

*tears*
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 27, 2020, 11:47:00 AM
What's the word on the goalie situation for Columbus...is there a clearer number 1 during this mini-camp?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on July 27, 2020, 11:54:22 AM
The closest I could say would be that scene in TLOU.

*tears*

We don't talk about that scene!

All I can say is don't piss off giraffes.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: sampson on July 27, 2020, 11:55:04 AM

err, not sure we need Kyle Clifford anymore.

Has he always look this ripped? My god!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 27, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/5xtDarAcWXuXvuB80uI/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 27, 2020, 11:57:54 AM
Has he always look this ripped? My god!

He's always had impressive lower body strength
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WeeklyCheeryAlaskanhusky-size_restricted.gif)

But now he has a girlfriend who is a formidable athlete herself and they were doing workout videos for IG over the lockdown.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 11:58:16 AM
I was gonna say they have decent mid tier forwards and two good defensemen, but as I look at their stat totals they actually don't have much there. As much as people are saying watch out CBJ wasn't healthy all year... I mean, ok, but their ppg stats are mostly not good also.

Everybody will be quick to point out what they did to Tampa last year but that was with Duchene and Panarin leading the charge offensively and Bob putting up a .932 save percentage. Just not the same team.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 12:04:40 PM
What's the word on the goalie situation for Columbus...is there a clearer number 1 during this mini-camp?

Not really. Merzlikins has reportedly looked slightly better but neither really shined in their camp.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on July 27, 2020, 12:11:28 PM
Everybody will be quick to point out what they did to Tampa last year but that was with Duchene and Panarin leading the charge offensively and Bob putting up a .932 save percentage. Just not the same team.

Yup. They shouldn't be overlooked or anything like that, but the 2019 version of the team is quite different from the current one. Last season, they're goals for vs goals against per game had them with a 0.3 advantage. This year, they're -0.04. That's a pretty substantial shift. Their possession numbers are down virtually across the board - though their 5-on-5 Sv% is higher (though, not a super sustainable rate, considering their goaltenders' previous performances/experience levels - they were probably due for a stretch of poor goaltending).
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 27, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
Them smoking Tampa (who are Leafs but ++ better) in 4 last season was a huge benefit to us going into this.

1) we're not going to take this lightly
2) they and everyone else like this matchup because defense wins championships, right? lol

Their goalies let in 13 goals in one scrimmage against their own offense. That's waaaaaay sadder than Andersen and our top-4 getting dummied by Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Mikheyev.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 27, 2020, 12:52:17 PM
Liljegren is practicing?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 27, 2020, 01:04:48 PM

I'm liking this.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
I'm liking this.

It's strange to say this about the 3rd highest scoring team in the league, but a lack of goals from our bottom-6 was a real problem this season. If that 3rd line lives up to the hype it could be a massive difference maker.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 27, 2020, 01:21:10 PM

Their backend mobility and frustratingly heavy and effective 1-2-2 forecheck are the real weapons.



1-2-2 forecheck should be banned. Yawn!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 27, 2020, 02:21:43 PM
I'm a little concerned about Dermott-Barrie.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 03:22:23 PM

I don't want to sound dramatic but if we lose to this we need to trade Matthews.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Hobbes on July 27, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
I don't want to sound dramatic but if we lose to this we need to trade Matthews.
More than likely if we lose to this it's Freddie who ought to be on his way out of town.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 27, 2020, 03:37:32 PM
I'm a little concerned about Dermott-Barrie.

Sheltered third pair. As long as they don't face top competition I think they should be ok.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 27, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
I don't want to sound dramatic but if we lose to this we need to trade Matthews.
More than likely if we lose to this it's Freddie who ought to be on his way out of town.

I know we haven't played that well defensively in front of him but he's been one of the worst goalies this year in expected SV% vs actual. The fact that we weren't out of a playoff spot was a bit of a miracle.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on July 27, 2020, 03:43:12 PM
I don't want to sound dramatic but if we lose to this we need to trade Matthews.

Nah, let's just pin it on Nylander.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on July 27, 2020, 03:44:50 PM
Spezza has taken Robertson under his wing
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 27, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Spezza has taken Robertson under his wing

Add Rielly and 2 random decoys and you've got a pretty good PP2 right there.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 27, 2020, 04:03:33 PM
I'm a little concerned about Dermott-Barrie.

Sheltered third pair. As long as they don't face top competition I think they should be ok.

Exactly, as long as they don't play against Foligno's line they should be good for the most part.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 27, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Woof, open the windows somebody, we're getting some overconfidence buildup.  This is a group that has yet to win a meaningful series.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Deebo on July 27, 2020, 05:27:10 PM
Woof, open the windows somebody, we're getting some overconfidence buildup.  This is a group that has yet to win a meaningful series.

Is anyone saying we will definitely win or anything like that?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on July 27, 2020, 05:28:37 PM
We're definitely going to win.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: disco on July 27, 2020, 06:13:09 PM
We're definitely going to win.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on July 27, 2020, 10:39:11 PM
Woof, open the windows somebody, we're getting some overconfidence buildup.  This is a group that has yet to win a meaningful series.
The Leafs will never lose another game ever again.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: RedLeaf on July 28, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Has he always look this ripped? My god!

He's always had impressive lower body strength
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WeeklyCheeryAlaskanhusky-size_restricted.gif)

But now he has a girlfriend who is a formidable athlete herself and they were doing workout videos for IG over the lockdown.

If Gauthier is the goat and Engvall is a Giraffe...than Rielly is clearly a Gazelle.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 11:52:11 AM
I guess end of season stuff should go here:
I don't know how Marner does it, but he always says the right thing that comes out wrong because it's from his mouth
Um, let's re-sign this guy
beep. boop. whizzzz. bing!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on August 12, 2020, 12:38:26 PM
Is anyone showing the Dubas/Shanahan presser or will we get after the fact news?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 12:48:50 PM
NO. Unless you're studying under Matthews/Robertson and build up the strength to actually unleash a shot with pace, please don't shoot more because that means our scoring centres aren't shooting.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 12, 2020, 01:23:14 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on August 12, 2020, 01:40:41 PM

Obvious shot at the core by the reporter.  Although Dubas has to realize that "the potential" and those players actually reaching that potential are 2 different things.  Marner was particularly ineffective in the series against Columbus, I don't know how he takes the next step.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 12, 2020, 01:50:36 PM
I guess end of season stuff should go here:


The "playoffs and what not"?  :o :o :P
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 01:51:12 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 12, 2020, 01:58:55 PM

Nobody seemed to believe me whenever I said that the Leafs genuinely liked Ceci.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on August 12, 2020, 02:04:10 PM

Nobody seemed to believe me whenever I said that the Leafs genuinely liked Ceci.

I saw this quote and I hope it's just Dubas defending his guy and not wanting to throw him under the bus.  There's no fancy metric in the world that can convince me Ceci doesn't suck. If Dubas actually thinks he's good we may be in some trouble here.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frank E on August 12, 2020, 02:13:00 PM

Nobody seemed to believe me whenever I said that the Leafs genuinely liked Ceci.

I saw this quote and I hope it's just Dubas defending his guy and not wanting to throw him under the bus.  There's no fancy metric in the world that can convince me Ceci doesn't suck. If Dubas actually thinks he's good we may be in some trouble here.

Yeah, that's a hot load of horseshit from Dubas.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 12, 2020, 02:17:43 PM
Nobody seemed to believe me whenever I said that the Leafs genuinely liked Ceci.

They still don't haha
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 02:32:20 PM

Nobody seemed to believe me whenever I said that the Leafs genuinely liked Ceci.
He outperformed his reputation! But like, he's UFA now. There's no trade value (like there was just before the deadline before he got injured)...

He's coming back next season, isn't he

(https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocOffWi/1920/TOR/cecixco93)(https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1920/TOR/cecixco93)
a positive effect on our defense overall, but an anchor on driving offense (which is not his role).
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 12, 2020, 02:47:50 PM

Oh for God's sake.

If Cody Ceci is in a Toronto Maple Leafs uniform next season, Dubas deserves to be lashed to an inflatable alligator and cast adrift on Lake Ontario.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on August 12, 2020, 03:05:20 PM

Nobody seemed to believe me whenever I said that the Leafs genuinely liked Ceci.
He outperformed his reputation! But like, he's UFA now. There's no trade value (like there was just before the deadline before he got injured)...

He's coming back next season, isn't he

(https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocOffWi/1920/TOR/cecixco93)(https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1920/TOR/cecixco93)
a positive effect on our defense overall, but an anchor on driving offense (which is not his role).

I would rather have Roman Polak for league minimum.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 03:08:01 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/08/12/toronto-maple-leafs-end-of-season-media-day/
Quote
Dubas on whether his vision for how the team should play is going to change or remain the same:

I don’t find myself transfixed on one thing. You all think that I have one way of going about things and it is never changing, but I think anybody who knows me or works with me would tell you it is pretty much the opposite. Every season, regardless of what the outcome has been — whether at different levels we have won or have been in the playoffs and fallen short — there has always been a full review of where we are at.

The vision for me always has to be changing. I don’t think any business or any team that just has one vision or way of doing things and doesn’t change is going to be successful in the long run. They might get lucky, but it is not a way to go about having sustainable success. I think the moves that we have made over the last couple of seasons have indicated that it is not just all about one thing here. That will certainly be the review that is done now with regards to where we are at and where we are going.

I am not someone that is stubborn with that. The goal will be to get us into a different position next year, certainly, to the point where we are making progress and sustaining ourselves as a contending team year in and year out.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 03:14:12 PM
In Nylander's interview (https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/video/william-nylander-end-of-season/t-277437436/c-5400889), he mentions the Leafs implemented a new defensive zone system during the RTP training camp, so going back to centre was a bit different. It largely worked, relative to the regular season system; of course it was against the Columbus never-try-for-offense approach, so it remains to be seen what it looks like next season. It certainly helped Andersen look a lot better for most of the series, save for that dippy Atkinson shot and all five guys leaving Liam Foudy alone.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on August 12, 2020, 03:27:18 PM
I don't think people would complain about Ceci so much if he were paid 3 million less. But I also doubt he'll sign for 3 million less.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on August 12, 2020, 03:33:33 PM
I don't think people would complain about Ceci so much if he were paid 3 million less. But I also doubt he'll sign for 3 million less.

I'd take him for $1mil. That's it.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 03:59:37 PM
I don't think people would complain about Ceci so much if he were paid 3 million less. But I also doubt he'll sign for 3 million less.

I'd take him for $1mil. That's it.

Flat cap and many other players have already signed for raises. Depending on how many retirements or exits from the league there are, on top of owners tightening their purse strings, this is a distinct possibility (same for Barrie).
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on August 12, 2020, 04:17:08 PM
I don't think people would complain about Ceci so much if he were paid 3 million less. But I also doubt he'll sign for 3 million less.

I'd take him for $1mil. That's it.

Flat cap and many other players have already signed for raises. Depending on how many retirements or exits from the league there are, on top of owners tightening their purse strings, this is a distinct possibility (same for Barrie).

I think I'm so irrationally against Barrie that I wouldn't bring him back unless it's for like $1.5m lol.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 04:35:01 PM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 12, 2020, 05:23:48 PM
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/kyle-dubas-on-emotions-losing-to-cbj-the-criticism-of-mitch-marner-potential-roster-movement-this-offseason-1.1508251

Dubas on OverDrive. Transcript from MLHS later I'm assuming.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on August 12, 2020, 06:06:25 PM
Ceci actually didn't look bad in Game 5, not saying good, but not terrible, so for a million I would keep CC Ryder.  Barrie can move north of real Barrie, north of Moosonee and not come back.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Hobbes on August 12, 2020, 08:18:18 PM
One of Ceci's most endearing qualities is that he isn't 4 more years of Zaitsev at $4.75M.

I'd happily take him at close to league min as our 7th D and let Marincin sink down into being the first call-up from the Marlies.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on August 12, 2020, 08:42:05 PM
One of Ceci's most endearing qualities is that he isn't 4 more years of Zaitsev at $4.75M.

I'd happily take him at close to league min as our 7th D and let Marincin sink down into being the first call-up from the Marlies.
Haha good one. CC isnt bad defensively. Hes just not good with the puck. His offensive side is offensive lol. As a 6-7 guy for the right price hes fine. Hes a lot better then Marincin.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on August 12, 2020, 09:43:46 PM

Burke is so long in the tooth as a former GM and commentator he's starting to look like Lisa Simpson if she never got braces.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 13, 2020, 08:54:15 AM
NHL end of season press video conference transcripts, courtesy of MLHS
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/08/13/brendan-shanahan-on-team-toughness-and-grit/
Brendan Shanahan

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/08/13/kyle-dubas-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-depth-beyond-the-big-four/
Kyle Dubas: the one that we've seen the paraphrased tweets of

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/08/13/sheldon-keefe-end-of-season-interview/
Sheldon Keefe
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on August 13, 2020, 11:29:29 AM

Burke is so long in the tooth as a former GM and commentator he's starting to look like Lisa Simpson if she never got braces.
Burks looking like "to much Scotch at the end of the day" guy.  I actually feel for him, after his son was killed he seemed to slide the slippery slope. Doesn't look good.  Trade "Nylander"...nonsense.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frycer14 on August 13, 2020, 12:48:14 PM

Burke is so long in the tooth as a former GM and commentator he's starting to look like Lisa Simpson if she never got braces.
Burks looking like "to much Scotch at the end of the day" guy.  I actually feel for him, after his son was killed he seemed to slide the slippery slope. Doesn't look good.  Trade "Nylander"...nonsense.

It's not nonsense at all. There was and is a solid case for moving forward dollars and talent to the defense, and every year that goes by, Burke looks more right than wrong. Comments on his personal tragedy affecting his mindset is distasteful, at best.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on August 13, 2020, 01:29:40 PM
He is a public figure and I do feel for the man. I like Burke. Sorry to upset you sensitive sensibilities.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CatScratchFever on August 14, 2020, 02:11:45 PM
I miss Lou.

https://eyesonisles.com/2020/05/22/islanders-lou-lamoriello-tenure-resounding-success/

I almost never post here, but guys, I’ve gotta vent. I've been watching, waiting,  hoping the vaunted Shanaplan was actually going to work. But after the past 2 wasted decades I wonder why I still care about this team. Isn’t that the  definition of insanity?

I'm feeling especially sour on Dubas  -- another unproven boy-genius who believes his tunnel-vision reliance on numbers beats decades of hockey horse-sense. It doesn’t. And when it comes to his handling of payroll numbers, tying up half the cap on 4 players is more like a fantasy league rookie move than the work of some hockey mastermind. He doesn't value, nor does he display toughness, either on the ice, or in salary negotiations. Thus we have the Nylander and Marner contracts: not value for money. Too cute by half. No killer instinct. No one to replace the grit and intimidation factor that players like Polak or Kadri brought to the team. Or even Uncle Leo. You cannot build a playoff team as you build a regular season team, and vice-versa. Therein lies the challenge. Balance. Guts. Compete level.

Kyle is certainly not the first GM of the Leafs to have the idea that you can buy your way to a championship. But I thought we were done with that failed idea.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on August 14, 2020, 03:06:27 PM
Hi CSF, nice to have you post. Number one, who ever said Dubas is a complete Moneyball guy, far from it.  Moves were made to add some grit; Muzzin and Clifford are grit players and Cup winners. Also Ontario farm boys.  Dubas readily admits he is learning and open to other ways of thinking, he is not so myopic to think that the train tracks actually do converge.
As Nik has more eloquently posted, we are very early in this rebuild and that it holds promise, Dubas was saddled with a coach he had no faith in, one that had totally lost the team and Babcock ran our training camp and early season, until the powers that be (Larry T), let him switch out to Keefe. 
Keefe has to be given the opportunity to bring in his own assistants and run a full training camp.  To judge the Leafs on this past 5 game series is a joke, I truly believe with Muzzin in the lineup and a goal by Tavares on that empty net shot may have ended up with us winning.  We didn't, most of us have gotten over this.

We know for certain the first upgrade on D will be by omission, Barrie is gone, Ceci if retained would be at bargain basement prices and push Marv out.  However I think Ceci will go.  In any case I think we all agree that Sandin has top 4 potential and could end up being a huge plus factor on our D.  He has been given development time in the AHL which is contrary to past Leaf administrations ruining young talent without any seasoning.  Liljegren the same, at least 2-3 years in the AHL.
Lehtonen is a question mark but is regarded as one of the best D in the KHL.

We just gotta hold course and not knee jerk into another administration that has all the right answers.  i.e  Burke saying we need "Truculence and Testosterone"  (that really worked out didn't it).  Anyone want Ron Wilson or Randy C back as head coach?


 
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 14, 2020, 03:53:01 PM
I miss Lou.

https://eyesonisles.com/2020/05/22/islanders-lou-lamoriello-tenure-resounding-success/

I almost never post here, but guys, I’ve gotta vent. I've been watching, waiting,  hoping the vaunted Shanaplan was actually going to work. But after the past 2 wasted decades I wonder why I still care about this team. Isn’t that the  definition of insanity?

I'm feeling especially sour on Dubas  -- another unproven boy-genius who believes his tunnel-vision reliance on numbers beats decades of hockey horse-sense. It doesn’t. And when it comes to his handling of payroll numbers, tying up half the cap on 4 players is more like a fantasy league rookie move than the work of some hockey mastermind. He doesn't value, nor does he display toughness, either on the ice, or in salary negotiations. Thus we have the Nylander and Marner contracts: not value for money. Too cute by half. No killer instinct. No one to replace the grit and intimidation factor that players like Polak or Kadri brought to the team. Or even Uncle Leo. You cannot build a playoff team as you build a regular season team, and vice-versa. Therein lies the challenge. Balance. Guts. Compete level.

Kyle is certainly not the first GM of the Leafs to have the idea that you can buy your way to a championship. But I thought we were done with that failed idea.

wow
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on August 14, 2020, 04:47:58 PM
As Nik has more eloquently posted, we are very early in this rebuild...

Someone should really let me know what sort of nonsense I'm apparently posting.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on August 14, 2020, 06:44:04 PM
As Nik has more eloquently posted, we are very early in this rebuild...

Someone should really let me know what sort of nonsense I'm apparently posting.
Some eloquent shit Nik, I give you credit for that. You do have a big brain.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frycer14 on August 14, 2020, 07:15:23 PM
As Nik has more eloquently posted, we are very early in this rebuild...

Someone should really let me know what sort of nonsense I'm apparently posting.
Some eloquent shit Nik, I give you credit for that. You do have a big brain.

Well, you didn't get comprehension, but you got a compliment. Both start with a c, at least.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Frycer14 on August 14, 2020, 07:23:31 PM
Regarding the age old canard of "toughness", I don't recall at any time this year that the team needed it added as an overriding attribute, anyway. Clifford really didn't wow me with any contribution post acquisition apart from giving that CBJ player a concussion, and it's hard to get behind that personally as a must-have skillset.

I remember not long ago when the "grit" talk got us david clarkson, so best to tread lightly. I must admit though, I had a very soft spot for leo komorov, who I think became a bit of a whipping boy, but I thought was underrated in terms of his contribution. Put me down for a few of those.

At any rate, the deficiencies for me begin and end at defence (and hemorrhaging 1st rounders)
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on August 14, 2020, 08:44:12 PM
At any rate, the deficiencies for me begin and end at defence (and hemorrhaging 1st rounders)

I agree the defence needs to be better but the sort of player that the loudmouths say the Leafs need is Jake Muzzin. There is no purer version of the defense first, penalty killer. He did it for Stanley Cup winners, he did it for Team Canada. The Leafs did go out and get that guy.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on August 14, 2020, 08:45:13 PM
Some eloquent shit Nik, I give you credit for that. You do have a big brain.

I would never have said the Leafs are "early" in their rebuild because it's not what I think. I think they rushed through a rebuild and did it with half-asses.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on August 14, 2020, 11:54:28 PM
Lou is half the reason we are where we are and not in a good way. I'm so tired of fans romanticizing a past that delivered Frig all.

Hey, maybe we should just give the reigns back to Cliff Fletcher while we're at it.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on August 15, 2020, 01:03:41 AM
I hear ya Bender. The supposed fans that want both Dubas and Shanny fired is ridiculous. I think all of Lou's mistakes have been taken care of now. We'll see what Dubas does now. I havent lost faith in him yet.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: BrownRolo on August 15, 2020, 07:06:30 AM
Regarding the age old canard of "toughness", I don't recall at any time this year that the team needed it added as an overriding attribute, anyway. Clifford really didn't wow me with any contribution post acquisition apart from giving that CBJ player a concussion, and it's hard to get behind that personally as a must-have skillset.

I remember not long ago when the "grit" talk got us david clarkson, so best to tread lightly. I must admit though, I had a very soft spot for leo komorov, who I think became a bit of a whipping boy, but I thought was underrated in terms of his contribution. Put me down for a few of those.

At any rate, the deficiencies for me begin and end at defence (and hemorrhaging 1st rounders)

Yeah, Clifford had that one hit which was probably charging other than that he didn't do much.

Muzzin is the guy we need. He is like sneaky dirty and has no problem laying out the opposition in completely non-necessary ways. He would fit right in on the Bruins. We need a few guys like that.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: BrownRolo on August 15, 2020, 07:08:52 AM
The more I watch the playoffs I see the Leafs need a dirty player. In the playoffs that stuff doesn't get called and even if it does get called you know there will be an even up call that will give you a PP.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on August 15, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
The more I watch the playoffs I see the Leafs need a dirty player. In the playoffs that stuff doesn't get called and even if it does get called you know there will be an even up call that will give you a PP.

A two-time 30-goal scoring 2nd line centre with a solid defensive game would be nice.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on August 15, 2020, 12:05:06 PM
Problem was he couldn't get his head out of his ass long enough to be effective in the playoffs.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on August 15, 2020, 11:44:10 PM
The more I watch the playoffs I see the Leafs need a dirty player. In the playoffs that stuff doesn't get called and even if it does get called you know there will be an even up call that will give you a PP.

A two-time 30-goal scoring 2nd line centre with a solid defensive game would be nice.
Good player, Friged the team two years in a row. Sorry bud.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 16, 2020, 06:35:02 PM
Well one good Leafs-adjacent thing to happen this year is Martina's acting debut on Wyonona Earp has been fantastic.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on August 16, 2020, 10:35:03 PM
I tried to watch that show and gave up. Didn't work for me.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Arn on August 19, 2020, 06:45:18 PM
The more I watch the playoffs I see the Leafs need a dirty player. In the playoffs that stuff doesn't get called and even if it does get called you know there will be an even up call that will give you a PP.

A two-time 30-goal scoring 2nd line centre with a solid defensive game would be nice.



Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Strangelove on August 19, 2020, 06:53:58 PM
The more I watch the playoffs I see the Leafs need a dirty player. In the playoffs that stuff doesn't get called and even if it does get called you know there will be an even up call that will give you a PP.

A two-time 30-goal scoring 2nd line centre with a solid defensive game would be nice.



Man I miss those mitts.

Now we're left with Kerfoot and about 5 other identical stone-handed small forwards.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on August 20, 2020, 12:25:33 AM
Seeing Kadri have a great first round kind of pisses me off. He should have been doing that for us the last 2 years but he had to get stupid. He'd probably still be here.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on August 20, 2020, 08:45:59 AM
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Nik on August 20, 2020, 10:46:16 AM
Man I miss those mitts.

Now we're left with Kerfoot and about 5 other identical stone-handed small forwards.

I have to confess, I'm still really puzzled that this never morphs into people looking at the Tavares signing harder.

I like Tavares. I think he's a good player and everything and I think the fact that the modern NHL is a league where signing a player of his calibre for a reasonable market rate can be a net negative for the team is one of the things that's killing my interest in the sport but there's really no getting around it right now that it:

A) Was at a price that, relative to league salaries, Tavares has never justified with his play

B) Set a salary structure for the team that probably hurt them in the 3 RFA negotiations

C) Bolstered a position where the Leafs were arguably at their strongest
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on August 21, 2020, 06:21:20 AM

A) Was at a price that, relative to league salaries, Tavares has never justified with his play

B) Set a salary structure for the team that probably hurt them in the 3 RFA negotiations

C) Bolstered a position where the Leafs were arguably at their strongest

All correct. The Leafs and the fans seemed to go fall head over heals in love with Tavares. Rightly so, as he is a great player. But the signing shouldn't have happened. Not at that cost. I'm not saying that the team is losing because of him. But it certainly threw a wrench into the rebuild.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Highlander on August 21, 2020, 11:20:59 AM

A) Was at a price that, relative to league salaries, Tavares has never justified with his play

B) Set a salary structure for the team that probably hurt them in the 3 RFA negotiations

C) Bolstered a position where the Leafs were arguably at their strongest

All correct. The Leafs and the fans seemed to go fall head over heals in love with Tavares. Rightly so, as he is a great player. But the signing shouldn't have happened. Not at that cost. I'm not saying that the team is losing because of him. But it certainly threw a wrench into the rebuild.
I didn't like the signing at the time, was never big on Johnny T. and at the price, Whew.  I guess they felt they had to make the statement that "this is the new Leafs" especially after not enticing Stamkos enough.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 20, 2020, 01:34:53 PM
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Ah, memories.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: L K on September 21, 2020, 09:23:57 AM
I do think it isn't unreasonable to look at Tavares as maybe the worst contract the Leafs have.  He's a really good player BUT he's 11M on the cap and he arguable isn't a top 10 player at his position.  His contract certainly takes more of a bite with the cap freeze.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on September 21, 2020, 09:44:00 AM
I do think it isn't unreasonable to look at Tavares as maybe the worst contract the Leafs have.  He's a really good player BUT he's 11M on the cap and he arguable isn't a top 10 player at his position.  His contract certainly takes more of a bite with the cap freeze.

Ooh, this is fun:
Per NaturalStatTrick over the last two regular seasons only measuring listed centres, John Tavares led the league in all-situations individual xG/60 at 1.28; his goals/60 actually exceeded that at 1.57. Matthews was 5th in ixG/60 at 1.19 but 1st in the league at G/60 at 1.85(!!). Yeah, xG has some inherent biases but it's probably the closest measure of which individual player puts pucks in the net.

Toronto is the only team with two centres in the top 5 for both metrics (ixG/60, G/60).

I think I agree Tavares is not top 10 (more like 12-15), but when combined with Matthews in tandem, there's significant gravity that both players are drawing off each other. I don't think either player gets to this level if they were on separate teams. I don't think we're better off running Matthews/Kadri/Brassard or whoever down the middle. I think they let you get cheaper 3rd wingers per line for the duration of their contracts. Tavares was still basically a point per game playing some mix of injured, sleep-deprived, and in mourning.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 21, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
I do think it isn't unreasonable to look at Tavares as maybe the worst contract the Leafs have.  He's a really good player BUT he's 11M on the cap and he arguable isn't a top 10 player at his position.  His contract certainly takes more of a bite with the cap freeze.

Ooh, this is fun:
Per NaturalStatTrick over the last two regular seasons only measuring listed centres, John Tavares led the league in all-situations individual xG/60 at 1.28; his goals/60 actually exceeded that at 1.57. Matthews was 5th in ixG/60 at 1.19 but 1st in the league at G/60 at 1.85(!!). Yeah, xG has some inherent biases but it's probably the closest measure of which individual player puts pucks in the net.

Toronto is the only team with two centres in the top 5 for both metrics (ixG/60, G/60).

I think I agree Tavares is not top 10 (more like 12-15), but when combined with Matthews in tandem, there's significant gravity that both players are drawing off each other. I don't think either player gets to this level if they were on separate teams. I don't think we're better off running Matthews/Kadri/Brassard or whoever down the middle. I think they let you get cheaper 3rd wingers per line for the duration of their contracts. Tavares was still basically a point per game playing some mix of injured, sleep-deprived, and in mourning.
Stats to back it up. I have no issue with JT and his contract. He was still close to a point a game in what some considered an off year.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on September 21, 2020, 11:40:56 AM

A) Was at a price that, relative to league salaries, Tavares has never justified with his play

B) Set a salary structure for the team that probably hurt them in the 3 RFA negotiations

C) Bolstered a position where the Leafs were arguably at their strongest

All correct. The Leafs and the fans seemed to go fall head over heals in love with Tavares. Rightly so, as he is a great player. But the signing shouldn't have happened. Not at that cost. I'm not saying that the team is losing because of him. But it certainly threw a wrench into the rebuild.
I didn't like the signing at the time, was never big on Johnny T. and at the price, Whew.  I guess they felt they had to make the statement that "this is the new Leafs" especially after not enticing Stamkos enough.

Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I don't recall anyone that wasn't big on the Johnny T signing at the time.  At least not on this board.  I seem to recall Gord Miller saying he thought it was a mistake, but other than that I thought it was universally praised at the time?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: L K on September 21, 2020, 12:10:50 PM
I do think it isn't unreasonable to look at Tavares as maybe the worst contract the Leafs have.  He's a really good player BUT he's 11M on the cap and he arguable isn't a top 10 player at his position.  His contract certainly takes more of a bite with the cap freeze.

Ooh, this is fun:
Per NaturalStatTrick over the last two regular seasons only measuring listed centres, John Tavares led the league in all-situations individual xG/60 at 1.28; his goals/60 actually exceeded that at 1.57. Matthews was 5th in ixG/60 at 1.19 but 1st in the league at G/60 at 1.85(!!). Yeah, xG has some inherent biases but it's probably the closest measure of which individual player puts pucks in the net.

Toronto is the only team with two centres in the top 5 for both metrics (ixG/60, G/60).

I think I agree Tavares is not top 10 (more like 12-15), but when combined with Matthews in tandem, there's significant gravity that both players are drawing off each other. I don't think either player gets to this level if they were on separate teams. I don't think we're better off running Matthews/Kadri/Brassard or whoever down the middle. I think they let you get cheaper 3rd wingers per line for the duration of their contracts. Tavares was still basically a point per game playing some mix of injured, sleep-deprived, and in mourning.
Stats to back it up. I have no issue with JT and his contract. He was still close to a point a game in what some considered an off year.

While we can call this an off year for John, he's also been close to PPG in non-off years.  At 29 I'm not really expecting him to suddenly become a 100+ point player.  He's a 40 goal 80-90 point player.  He's responsible defensively. He does what is asked of him.  We just probably aren't going to see significant growth in his game.   I'd like to see him penalty kill this year...one to get a guy who doesn't go 40% on faceoffs and two to get better value out of an 11M contract to get him an extra 2 minutes or so of icetime to bump him up over 20 a game.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on September 21, 2020, 12:26:16 PM
While we can call this an off year for John, he's also been close to PPG in non-off years.  At 29 I'm not really expecting him to suddenly become a 100+ point player.  He's a 40 goal 80-90 point player.  He's responsible defensively. He does what is asked of him.  We just probably aren't going to see significant growth in his game.   I'd like to see him penalty kill this year...one to get a guy who doesn't go 40% on faceoffs and two to get better value out of an 11M contract to get him an extra 2 minutes or so of icetime to bump him up over 20 a game.

His previous seasons with the Islanders involved him having to do everything, so PPG but not much more, is kind of a team-effect; as is his PPG off-year getting to watch Nylander's 30G+ season first hand (rising tide). There's a long history of elevating his wingers, which costs on the cap but is something you need from your top-paid players. 11M at the time of signing was high -- all UFA signings from the top shelf tend to be by nature -- but there was projected to be a big tv deal coming down the pipeline.

Statistical metrics aside, I think there is team value in having a veteran tone-setter that isn't doing it from the bottom-six, especially with all the Leafs star/firepower generally concentrated in the 22-24 age group. Like, I loved Kessel and how fun he was to watch on the ice, but a physically gifted hockey savant is not really the best player-leader to eke out the potential of less gifted players in the lineup. The Malhotra pickup speaks volumes about what they've been trying to nurture in the Leafs dressing room (as did the Marleau signing previously). Tavares is the front office's appointed benchmark for the Big Three to match and supercede (they will), as is Muzzin for the defense group.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 21, 2020, 12:27:39 PM
I do think it isn't unreasonable to look at Tavares as maybe the worst contract the Leafs have.  He's a really good player BUT he's 11M on the cap and he arguable isn't a top 10 player at his position.  His contract certainly takes more of a bite with the cap freeze.

Ooh, this is fun:
Per NaturalStatTrick over the last two regular seasons only measuring listed centres, John Tavares led the league in all-situations individual xG/60 at 1.28; his goals/60 actually exceeded that at 1.57. Matthews was 5th in ixG/60 at 1.19 but 1st in the league at G/60 at 1.85(!!). Yeah, xG has some inherent biases but it's probably the closest measure of which individual player puts pucks in the net.

Toronto is the only team with two centres in the top 5 for both metrics (ixG/60, G/60).

I think I agree Tavares is not top 10 (more like 12-15), but when combined with Matthews in tandem, there's significant gravity that both players are drawing off each other. I don't think either player gets to this level if they were on separate teams. I don't think we're better off running Matthews/Kadri/Brassard or whoever down the middle. I think they let you get cheaper 3rd wingers per line for the duration of their contracts. Tavares was still basically a point per game playing some mix of injured, sleep-deprived, and in mourning.
Stats to back it up. I have no issue with JT and his contract. He was still close to a point a game in what some considered an off year.

While we can call this an off year for John, he's also been close to PPG in non-off years.  At 29 I'm not really expecting him to suddenly become a 100+ point player.  He's a 40 goal 80-90 point player.  He's responsible defensively. He does what is asked of him.  We just probably aren't going to see significant growth in his game.   I'd like to see him penalty kill this year...one to get a guy who doesn't go 40% on faceoffs and two to get better value out of an 11M contract to get him an extra 2 minutes or so of icetime to bump him up over 20 a game.
Yup. I think both him and Matthews should give the PK a go. Both are very good in the dot also.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Dappleganger on September 21, 2020, 08:06:27 PM
I do think it isn't unreasonable to look at Tavares as maybe the worst contract the Leafs have.  He's a really good player BUT he's 11M on the cap and he arguable isn't a top 10 player at his position.  His contract certainly takes more of a bite with the cap freeze.

Ooh, this is fun:
Per NaturalStatTrick over the last two regular seasons only measuring listed centres, John Tavares led the league in all-situations individual xG/60 at 1.28; his goals/60 actually exceeded that at 1.57. Matthews was 5th in ixG/60 at 1.19 but 1st in the league at G/60 at 1.85(!!). Yeah, xG has some inherent biases but it's probably the closest measure of which individual player puts pucks in the net.

Toronto is the only team with two centres in the top 5 for both metrics (ixG/60, G/60).

I think I agree Tavares is not top 10 (more like 12-15), but when combined with Matthews in tandem, there's significant gravity that both players are drawing off each other. I don't think either player gets to this level if they were on separate teams. I don't think we're better off running Matthews/Kadri/Brassard or whoever down the middle. I think they let you get cheaper 3rd wingers per line for the duration of their contracts. Tavares was still basically a point per game playing some mix of injured, sleep-deprived, and in mourning.
Stats to back it up. I have no issue with JT and his contract. He was still close to a point a game in what some considered an off year.

I was going to say, first year as a Leaf he led all Centers in goals. I'm not sure what more you want out of him.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on September 22, 2020, 10:52:00 AM
So the draft is Oct 6-7 and UFA starts Oct 9th.  We're 14 days away before stuff really starts to happen.  I can imagine the NHL wants teams to not do anything while the final is ongoing so as not to distract from their show, can't wait until the cup is awarded and the fireworks begin.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 22, 2020, 11:01:00 AM
So the draft is Oct 6-7 and UFA starts Oct 9th.  We're 14 days away before stuff really starts to happen.  I can imagine the NHL wants teams to not do anything while the final is ongoing so as not to distract from their show, can't wait until the cup is awarded and the fireworks begin.

First buyout window opens this Friday too.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on September 22, 2020, 11:03:53 AM
So the draft is Oct 6-7 and UFA starts Oct 9th.  We're 14 days away before stuff really starts to happen.  I can imagine the NHL wants teams to not do anything while the final is ongoing so as not to distract from their show, can't wait until the cup is awarded and the fireworks begin.

First buyout window opens this Friday too.

Hold me.  :D
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on September 22, 2020, 11:19:38 AM
Hmm... Lundqvist
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 22, 2020, 11:32:12 AM
Probably the most efficient way you could fit that other guy into our cap system.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 22, 2020, 11:43:11 AM
Probably the most efficient way you could fit that other guy into our cap system.
That other guy?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 22, 2020, 11:54:43 AM
Probably the most efficient way you could fit that other guy into our cap system.
That other guy?

The one we've spent the last 4 days spitballing ideas about how we'd fit him into our cap.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on September 22, 2020, 12:17:43 PM
Hmm... Lundqvist

I'd be interested in seeing similar charts, but just for the last 3 seasons or so . . . you know, a relevant time frame. :P
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on September 22, 2020, 12:36:16 PM
Hmm... Lundqvist

I'd be interested in seeing similar charts, but just for the last 3 seasons or so . . . you know, a relevant time frame. :P

Ask Micah; I think it's still in the refining phase. But what a career!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on September 22, 2020, 12:38:50 PM
Probably the most efficient way you could fit that other guy into our cap system.
That other guy?

The one we've spent the last 4 days spitballing ideas about how we'd fit him into our cap.

Trade Andersen for picks and maybe depth forward on the cheap. Sign freshly bought out Lundqvist UFA to a two-year 2M to tandem with Campbell. If healthy, the King is guaranteed 40+ games with a defense that is slightly better than NYRs.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 22, 2020, 12:40:31 PM
If healthy, the King is guaranteed 40+ games with a defense that is slightly better than NYRs.

Toronto's defence was much better than NYRs even just this past season without Pietro.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 22, 2020, 12:42:53 PM
Probably the most efficient way you could fit that other guy into our cap system.
That other guy?

The one we've spent the last 4 days spitballing ideas about how we'd fit him into our cap.

Trade Andersen for picks and maybe depth forward on the cheap. Sign freshly bought out Lundqvist UFA to a two-year 2M to tandem with Campbell. If healthy, the King is guaranteed 40+ games with a defense that is slightly better than NYRs.
Um big fat no. The King is dead..lol. Who would take on Flower at 3.5 for 2 years?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 22, 2020, 12:52:46 PM
Um big fat no. The King is dead..lol. Who would take on Flower at 3.5 for 2 years?

You'd consider Fleury but not Lundqvist? They had the same save percentage despite one playing on the worst defensive team in the league and one playing on one of the best.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on September 22, 2020, 12:52:53 PM
If healthy, the King is guaranteed 40+ games with a defense that is slightly better than NYRs.

Toronto's defence was much better than NYRs even just this past season without Pietro.

I didn't want to oversell it but we're losing Ceci, so...
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on September 23, 2020, 08:46:33 AM
T-minus 13 days to the draft, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 23, 2020, 09:36:51 AM
Um big fat no. The King is dead..lol. Who would take on Flower at 3.5 for 2 years?

You'd consider Fleury but not Lundqvist? They had the same save percentage despite one playing on the worst defensive team in the league and one playing on one of the best.
No I was offering up a comparable on an aging goalie who's best days are far behind them. I dont want either. I want a Kuemper for Freddie deal.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 09:47:21 AM
No I was offering up a comparable on an aging goalie who's best days are far behind them. I dont want either. I want a Kuemper for Freddie deal.

Fair. I'd definitely be interested in Kuemper but don't really want to give up the 15th overall pick. But if we can trade Andersen for a 1st to a team that will benefit a lot from his $1mil salary then I'd be fine flipping that pick to Arizona for him. If we did that, signed Brodie to a $5mil deal, signed Mikheyev and Rodrigues to $1.5mil deals and traded Johnsson and Dermott away you'd have a roster that looks like:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Robertson-Kerfoot-Barabanov
Engvall-Rodrigues-Spezza
$900k 13th forward

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren
Lehtonen

Kuemper
Campbell

That's just a smidge under the cap. If you wanted to clear a bit of space you could replace Engvall and Rodrigues with guys closer to league minimum. That would either give you room to bring Dermott back (albeit in a strictly bottom pair role) or sign a veteran like Thornton or Simmonds to give the bottom-6 a new look.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 23, 2020, 10:21:39 AM
No I was offering up a comparable on an aging goalie who's best days are far behind them. I dont want either. I want a Kuemper for Freddie deal.

Fair. I'd definitely be interested in Kuemper but don't really want to give up the 15th overall pick. But if we can trade Andersen for a 1st to a team that will benefit a lot from his $1mil salary then I'd be fine flipping that pick to Arizona for him.
Why would we have to give up the 1st to get Kuemper? All I've heard is Arizona wants to dump salary so trade them one for one. Arizona gets almost as good a goalie for a million dollars. They'll save, in actual cash, 2.5 mill this year and 5.5 next season. That's an 8 million dollar savings. Yes they'll have to get another goalie for next season but even at say 3 mill, they're still ahead 5 mill. Leafs will save 500k in Cap and have a goalie for 2 years.
Am I way off here?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on September 23, 2020, 10:31:23 AM
Why would we have to give up the 1st to get Kuemper? All I've heard is Arizona wants to dump salary so trade them one for one. Arizona gets almost as good a goalie for a million dollars. They'll save, in actual cash, 2.5 mill this year and 5.5 next season. That's an 8 million dollar savings. Yes they'll have to get another goalie for next season but even at say 3 mill, they're still ahead 5 mill. Leafs will save 500k in Cap and have a goalie for 2 years.
Am I way off here?

I'm not sure Arizona goes for a 1-for-1 swap because Kuemper has an extra year on his contract, but if Andersen is involved, a 1st round pick shouldn't be.

That's a big if, though. Arizona doesn't have a ton of cap space, and I'm not sure they'd want $9.25M of it tied up with their goalies.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 23, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
Why would we have to give up the 1st to get Kuemper? All I've heard is Arizona wants to dump salary so trade them one for one. Arizona gets almost as good a goalie for a million dollars. They'll save, in actual cash, 2.5 mill this year and 5.5 next season. That's an 8 million dollar savings. Yes they'll have to get another goalie for next season but even at say 3 mill, they're still ahead 5 mill. Leafs will save 500k in Cap and have a goalie for 2 years.
Am I way off here?

I'm not sure Arizona goes for a 1-for-1 swap because Kuemper has an extra year on his contract, but if Andersen is involved, a 1st round pick shouldn't be.

That's a big if, though. Arizona doesn't have a ton of cap space, and I'm not sure they'd want $9.25M of it tied up with their goalies.
Good point but it's only a 500k increase in Cap and 5 times that in actual cash savings. They are apparently shopping everyone so we'll see but I think they can do it.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 10:46:32 AM
Why would we have to give up the 1st to get Kuemper? All I've heard is Arizona wants to dump salary so trade them one for one. Arizona gets almost as good a goalie for a million dollars. They'll save, in actual cash, 2.5 mill this year and 5.5 next season. That's an 8 million dollar savings. Yes they'll have to get another goalie for next season but even at say 3 mill, they're still ahead 5 mill. Leafs will save 500k in Cap and have a goalie for 2 years.
Am I way off here?

They need to replenish their draft picks and are probably fine with using Raanta/Hill as their goalies next year. I can't see them having much interest in one year of Andersen especially if they're looking to cut even more cash beyond Kuemper like Stepan. That'd be a signal they don't have much hope for next season so getting futures back just makes more sense.

If 2 years of Kuemper goes for anything less than a 1st I'd be pretty shocked.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: L K on September 23, 2020, 10:47:38 AM
No I was offering up a comparable on an aging goalie who's best days are far behind them. I dont want either. I want a Kuemper for Freddie deal.

Fair. I'd definitely be interested in Kuemper but don't really want to give up the 15th overall pick. But if we can trade Andersen for a 1st to a team that will benefit a lot from his $1mil salary then I'd be fine flipping that pick to Arizona for him. If we did that, signed Brodie to a $5mil deal, signed Mikheyev and Rodrigues to $1.5mil deals and traded Johnsson and Dermott away you'd have a roster that looks like:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Robertson-Kerfoot-Barabanov
Engvall-Rodrigues-Spezza
$900k 13th forward

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Liljegren
Lehtonen

Kuemper
Campbell

That's just a smidge under the cap. If you wanted to clear a bit of space you could replace Engvall and Rodrigues with guys closer to league minimum. That would either give you room to bring Dermott back (albeit in a strictly bottom pair role) or sign a veteran like Thornton or Simmonds to give the bottom-6 a new look.

Do we really think we get a 1st for Andersen?  Robin Lehner got traded for a low 2nd, a mediocre backup in Malcolm Subban and a 4th round prospect (plus the 5th round pick they gave the Leafs for eating salary/Dzierkals)
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 10:48:28 AM
Also just in case it wasn't clear I never said it'd be Andersen + a 1st for Kuemper.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Do we really think we get a 1st for Andersen?  Robin Lehner got traded for a low 2nd, a mediocre backup in Malcolm Subban and a 4th round prospect (plus the 5th round pick they gave the Leafs for eating salary/Dzierkals)

Lehner was a pending UFA who had a big salary that some teams might not have been able to fit in even at the deadline (like you said, they even needed to get the Leafs involved to eat salary so he could fit in with Vegas). That was also at a point where most teams aren't exactly looking to change starting goalies so the demand was lower than it would be now.

Andersen still has a full year left on his contract. Now if his salary matched his AAV it might be tough to get a 1st rounder out of him. But with a $1mil salary I think a number of teams with owners who just lost a crap ton of money will be interested in him.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on September 23, 2020, 10:59:53 AM
They need to replenish their draft picks and are probably fine with using Raanta/Hill as their goalies next year. I can't see them having much interest in one year of Andersen especially if they're looking to cut even more cash beyond Kuemper like Stepan. That'd be a signal they don't have much hope for next season so getting futures back just makes more sense.

If 2 years of Kuemper goes for anything less than a 1st I'd be pretty shocked.

I think the only way it works is the exceptionally rare 3 team deal. So, you know, not happening and all.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 23, 2020, 11:03:58 AM
Why would we have to give up the 1st to get Kuemper? All I've heard is Arizona wants to dump salary so trade them one for one. Arizona gets almost as good a goalie for a million dollars. They'll save, in actual cash, 2.5 mill this year and 5.5 next season. That's an 8 million dollar savings. Yes they'll have to get another goalie for next season but even at say 3 mill, they're still ahead 5 mill. Leafs will save 500k in Cap and have a goalie for 2 years.
Am I way off here?

They need to replenish their draft picks and are probably fine with using Raanta/Hill as their goalies next year. I can't see them having much interest in one year of Andersen especially if they're looking to cut even more cash beyond Kuemper like Stepan. That'd be a signal they don't have much hope for next season so getting futures back just makes more sense.

If 2 years of Kuemper goes for anything less than a 1st I'd be pretty shocked.
Makes sense. I was just looking at it from a cash savings and didn't consider their loss of picks.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 23, 2020, 11:05:25 AM
They need to replenish their draft picks and are probably fine with using Raanta/Hill as their goalies next year. I can't see them having much interest in one year of Andersen especially if they're looking to cut even more cash beyond Kuemper like Stepan. That'd be a signal they don't have much hope for next season so getting futures back just makes more sense.

If 2 years of Kuemper goes for anything less than a 1st I'd be pretty shocked.

I think the only way it works is the exceptionally rare 3 team deal. So, you know, not happening and all.
That could happen. Leafs actually had Lehner at the deadline last year lol. Let's say it's possible. What team do you think would be involved?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 11:06:06 AM
I think the only way it works is the exceptionally rare 3 team deal. So, you know, not happening and all.

It's not really a 3-way trade since all 3 teams wouldn't be dealing with each other. It'd just be Dubas talking to 2 GMs at the same time. I guess to make it simpler the Leafs would be dangling their 2021 1st round pick while acquiring someone elses 1st rounder for Andersen to replace that. I don't really think that's out of the realm of possibility. It'd be no different than the Leafs signing Pietrangelo or Brodie and having deals in place with other teams to make the necessary cap clearing moves afterward.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 11:08:58 AM
Makes sense. I was just looking at it from a cash savings and didn't consider their loss of picks.

Arizona also seems to like Hill. He had good numbers last season while they ran into injuries and they just signed him to a 1-way contract. Raanta's injury history would mean they'd need to beef up their 3rd goalie position but I think they'd be comfortable with that pair considering the circumstances.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on September 23, 2020, 11:11:31 AM
That could happen. Leafs actually had Lehner at the deadline last year lol. Let's say it's possible. What team do you think would be involved?

That's where things get complicated. The teams that might be willing to move a 1st round pick to Arizona to get Andersen from Toronto are hard to identify. There aren't any obvious ones that I don't see waiting to at least check on the UFA market.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 23, 2020, 11:13:46 AM
Buffalo and Carolina are both teams that jump out at me that would probably be very interested in a $5mil goalie who only costs $1mil.

Buffalo's pick would of course need to be lottery protected, or we'd need to take a pair of 2nds or something instead considering where their 1sts might be in the next couple of years.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 23, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
Makes sense. I was just looking at it from a cash savings and didn't consider their loss of picks.

Arizona also seems to like Hill. He had good numbers last season while they ran into injuries and they just signed him to a 1-way contract. Raanta's injury history would mean they'd need to beef up their 3rd goalie position but I think they'd be comfortable with that pair considering the circumstances.
That's right. I forgot about them signing him to a one way deal. Oh and I didn't think you said Anderson and a 1st.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 24, 2020, 11:27:33 PM
Since we were talking about him:

Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 25, 2020, 09:15:59 AM
Since we were talking about him:

It seems a lot, but not. Quality goalie though. I think Freddie can get a first only because of the million dollar price tag. So what prospect are we giving up?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Bender on September 25, 2020, 09:21:40 AM
Since we were talking about him:

It seems a lot, but not. Quality goalie though. I think Freddie can get a first only because of the million dollar price tag. So what prospect are we giving up?

Isn't that more than what Freddy costed us?
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on September 25, 2020, 10:29:31 AM
Since we were talking about him:

It seems a lot, but not. Quality goalie though. I think Freddie can get a first only because of the million dollar price tag. So what prospect are we giving up?

Isn't that more than what Freddy costed us?
No, pretty much the same thing. It was a late, 30th 1st round pick(Sam Steel) and a 2nd#50 (Maxime Comtois) in the draft after. Keep in mind, Freddie was 26 at the time.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on October 01, 2020, 08:56:56 AM
Today feels like a good day for a deal.  Let's go boys!
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on October 01, 2020, 09:30:05 AM
Today feels like a good day for a deal.  Let's go boys!

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/maple-leafs-free-agency-primer-pressure-take-step-forward/

Who do you want
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Dappleganger on October 01, 2020, 09:40:41 AM
TJ Brodie could be a nice option playing with Muzzin as a shutdown pair. That'd leave Holl most likely playing with Rielly. I'm thinking the bottom pair are Liljegren and Sandin.  :-\

Dermott moved in a trade.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Zee on October 01, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
TJ Brodie could be a nice option playing with Muzzin as a shutdown pair. That'd leave Holl most likely playing with Rielly. I'm thinking the bottom pair are Liljegren and Sandin.  :-\

Dermott moved in a trade.

I've heard Gudas thrown around as a potential 3rd pair right guy if we aren't sure Lilejegren is ready.  I agree that Dermott most likely is on the outs with Rielly, Muzzin and Sandin ahead on the left.  There's also the expansion draft to think of and Leafs can't protect so many defencemen.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
TJ Brodie could be a nice option playing with Muzzin as a shutdown pair. That'd leave Holl most likely playing with Rielly. I'm thinking the bottom pair are Liljegren and Sandin.  :-\

Dermott moved in a trade.

Holl and Muzzin have been very good together. I think they need a partner for Rielly, unless he gets traded, so anyone coming in will play with him first. Gudas isn't that guy, but Brodie would be an option. Don't know if he's willing to come to Toronto though. Thing is, whatever is coming in means the end of Johnsson or Kerfoot or both. I also think the Leafs shouldn't get rid of Dermott unless we have a return we can't refuse. I don't think he's getting a huge raise. Leafs only have to qualify him at $874,125 and he has no arb rights, so he accepts or sits. I think he has way to much talent to give up on. He's only 24 this Dec. If he can play the right side, even better. Even if they go with Liljegren or Lehtonen, Dermott could be your 7th. You can never have enough D men. Tampa used 9 in the playoffs.
I wouldn't mind seeing them sign Thornton and Spezza who can play the wing. Also wouldn't mind seeing Simmonds on the 4th line. Dubas has lots of options but we'll see what the market costs.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Dappleganger on October 01, 2020, 10:09:57 AM
TJ Brodie could be a nice option playing with Muzzin as a shutdown pair. That'd leave Holl most likely playing with Rielly. I'm thinking the bottom pair are Liljegren and Sandin.  :-\

Dermott moved in a trade.

Holl and Muzzin have been very good together. I think they need a partner for Rielly, unless he gets traded, so anyone coming in will play with him first. Gudas isn't that guy, but Brodie would be an option. Don't know if he's willing to come to Toronto though. Thing is, whatever is coming in means the end of Johnsson or Kerfoot or both. I also think the Leafs shouldn't get rid of Dermott unless we have a return we can't refuse. I don't think he's getting a huge raise. Leafs only have to qualify him at $874,125 and he has no arb rights, so he accepts or sits. I think he has way to much talent to give up on. He's only 24 this Dec. If he can play the right side, even better. Even if they go with Liljegren or Lehtonen, Dermott could be your 7th. You can never have enough D men. Tampa used 9 in the playoffs.
I wouldn't mind seeing them sign Thornton and Spezza who can play the wing. Also wouldn't mind seeing Simmonds on the 4th line. Dubas has lots of options but we'll see what the market costs.

I have Kerfoot leaving. Hopefully Johnsson can stay and factor into the top six.

I'm not giving up on Dermott but hopefully he has value and can bring something nice back in a trade. I think the Leafs have to move one of their Left D to make room for a RD. Dermott is my guy.

Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 10:15:05 AM

I've heard Gudas thrown around as a potential 3rd pair right guy if we aren't sure Lilejegren is ready.  I agree that Dermott most likely is on the outs with Rielly, Muzzin and Sandin ahead on the left.  There's also the expansion draft to think of and Leafs can't protect so many defencemen.
If the Leafs are worried about the expansion draft, they won't sign any D men because they can only protect 3..Muzz, Rielly, Holl are it for now. Sign a Brodie or Gudas and Holl won't be protected anymore. There's a very low chance a UFA is going to come here without protection against the expansion draft so they may only go after 1 D man.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 10:18:25 AM
TJ Brodie could be a nice option playing with Muzzin as a shutdown pair. That'd leave Holl most likely playing with Rielly. I'm thinking the bottom pair are Liljegren and Sandin.  :-\

Dermott moved in a trade.

Holl and Muzzin have been very good together. I think they need a partner for Rielly, unless he gets traded, so anyone coming in will play with him first. Gudas isn't that guy, but Brodie would be an option. Don't know if he's willing to come to Toronto though. Thing is, whatever is coming in means the end of Johnsson or Kerfoot or both. I also think the Leafs shouldn't get rid of Dermott unless we have a return we can't refuse. I don't think he's getting a huge raise. Leafs only have to qualify him at $874,125 and he has no arb rights, so he accepts or sits. I think he has way to much talent to give up on. He's only 24 this Dec. If he can play the right side, even better. Even if they go with Liljegren or Lehtonen, Dermott could be your 7th. You can never have enough D men. Tampa used 9 in the playoffs.
I wouldn't mind seeing them sign Thornton and Spezza who can play the wing. Also wouldn't mind seeing Simmonds on the 4th line. Dubas has lots of options but we'll see what the market costs.

I have Kerfoot leaving. Hopefully Johnsson can stay and factor into the top six.

I'm not giving up on Dermott but hopefully he has value and can bring something nice back in a trade. I think the Leafs have to move one of their Left D to make room for a RD. Dermott is my guy.


Dermott by himself isn't getting you much in a trade. If I have the choice, I'm keeping Kerfoot over Johnsson all day, every day. Same money, harder position. However if they go after and get AP, I think both are gone.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 01, 2020, 10:27:35 AM
This might be a semi-controversial take but I don't think we should act like Sandin as the 3LD is something that's set in stone (granted I've done it myself in the past). If the Leafs keep Dermott I think the odds are it'll be him and Lehtonen on the bottom pairing with one of them of course playing the right side. I think there's a number of scenarios where he actually starts the season with the Marlies.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: herman on October 01, 2020, 10:33:44 AM
If we're following the Tampa model (and St. Louis too), they have two really really good defensemen who can carry a partner to neutral or even good level.

Tampa had Hedman and McDonagh, dragging along the likes of Bogosian, Schenn, and sheltering Shattenkirk.
St. Louis has Pietrangelo and Parayko/Bouwmeester, and I have no idea who else they run other than Faulk because of lolz.

The Leafs have Muzzin who can do that, and at lower competition currently, Dermott. Sandin and Liljegren project to be of a similar mold. Rielly really cannot elevate a partner defensively because he's basically a forward who can skate backwards good. This is hard, but we will need to DeRozan Mo (and Tessa :( ) at some point.

I keep not noticing that we're in the summer thread instead of the next season thread.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Deebo on October 01, 2020, 10:40:42 AM
If the Leafs are worried about the expansion draft, they won't sign any D men because they can only protect 3..Muzz, Rielly, Holl are it for now. Sign a Brodie or Gudas and Holl won't be protected anymore. There's a very low chance a UFA is going to come here without protection against the expansion draft so they may only go after 1 D man.

For the expansion draft protection, If you sign an FA defender:

Locks:

F - Tavares, Marner, Matthews and Nylander
D - Rielly, Muzzin, FA

So now you can either protect 3 more forwards or 1 more D.

If they could add 4th D that was worth protecting (or Dermott if he stays and takes a step forward), I don't think the risk of losing Holl or one of the remaining forwards (since Hyman is a UFA) should stop them.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 10:53:19 AM
This might be a semi-controversial take but I don't think we should act like Sandin as the 3LD is something that's set in stone (granted I've done it myself in the past). If the Leafs keep Dermott I think the odds are it'll be him and Lehtonen on the bottom pairing with one of them of course playing the right side. I think there's a number of scenarios where he actually starts the season with the Marlies.
I think you're right and I'd be ok with that scenario. I think most of us pencil Sandin in because Dermott isn't signed and Lehtonen is unknown. Lehtonen isn't coming over here to play on the Marlies and the Leafs didn't sign him to play there either. Dermott will have to sign for what the Leafs want. He has no choice other then to sit. I don't see the Leafs going after Gudas. I think he'll cost too much for a 3rd pairing guy.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
If the Leafs are worried about the expansion draft, they won't sign any D men because they can only protect 3..Muzz, Rielly, Holl are it for now. Sign a Brodie or Gudas and Holl won't be protected anymore. There's a very low chance a UFA is going to come here without protection against the expansion draft so they may only go after 1 D man.

For the expansion draft protection, If you sign an FA defender:

Locks:

F - Tavares, Marner, Matthews and Nylander
D - Rielly, Muzzin, FA

So now you can either protect 3 more forwards or 1 more D.

If they could add 4th D that was worth protecting (or Dermott if he stays and takes a step forward), I don't think the risk of losing Holl or one of the remaining forwards (since Hyman is a UFA) should stop them.
And that was my point in the response. The expansion draft will have zero effect on if the Leafs sign a UFA or not.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 01, 2020, 11:01:06 AM
I think you're right and I'd be ok with that scenario. I think most of us pencil Sandin in because Dermott isn't signed and Lehtonen is unknown. Lehtonen isn't coming over here to play on the Marlies and the Leafs didn't sign him to play there either. Dermott will have to sign for what the Leafs want. He has no choice other then to sit. I don't see the Leafs going after Gudas. I think he'll cost too much for a 3rd pairing guy.

If they manage to sign Pietrangelo, there's no chance for Gudas here. If they go for Brodie instead you miighhtt be able to squeeze Gudas in. If Brodie is a no-go then I think DeMelo + Gudas would still be a good haul.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 11:42:54 AM
I think you're right and I'd be ok with that scenario. I think most of us pencil Sandin in because Dermott isn't signed and Lehtonen is unknown. Lehtonen isn't coming over here to play on the Marlies and the Leafs didn't sign him to play there either. Dermott will have to sign for what the Leafs want. He has no choice other then to sit. I don't see the Leafs going after Gudas. I think he'll cost too much for a 3rd pairing guy.

If they manage to sign Pietrangelo, there's no chance for Gudas here. If they go for Brodie instead you miighhtt be able to squeeze Gudas in. If Brodie is a no-go then I think DeMelo + Gudas would still be a good haul.
I think DeMelo could be good fit with Rielly and Goudas could be a 2nd/3rd pairing guy with Sandin, Lehtonen or Dermott. I don't see either getting a huge amount but I'd bet the Leafs will offer longer terms to get the cap hit low.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Deebo on October 01, 2020, 11:55:53 AM
If the Leafs are worried about the expansion draft, they won't sign any D men because they can only protect 3..Muzz, Rielly, Holl are it for now. Sign a Brodie or Gudas and Holl won't be protected anymore. There's a very low chance a UFA is going to come here without protection against the expansion draft so they may only go after 1 D man.

For the expansion draft protection, If you sign an FA defender:

Locks:

F - Tavares, Marner, Matthews and Nylander
D - Rielly, Muzzin, FA

So now you can either protect 3 more forwards or 1 more D.

If they could add 4th D that was worth protecting (or Dermott if he stays and takes a step forward), I don't think the risk of losing Holl or one of the remaining forwards (since Hyman is a UFA) should stop them.
And that was my point in the response. The expansion draft will have zero effect on if the Leafs sign a UFA or not.

Sorry, I thought you were saying since they could only protect 3 so it would be Rielly, Muzzin + acquired D so they would only go after 1.

I was saying they can protect 4 D, because there are only 4 forwards they absolutely need to protect.

If Dermott is moved and they protect 4D, they could add 2 D because really losing Holl isn't a big deal.

And the risk losing one of Johnsson or Kerfoot, should they still be here, shouldn't stop the team from adding to the D.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Dappleganger on October 01, 2020, 12:10:39 PM
This might be a semi-controversial take but I don't think we should act like Sandin as the 3LD is something that's set in stone (granted I've done it myself in the past). If the Leafs keep Dermott I think the odds are it'll be him and Lehtonen on the bottom pairing with one of them of course playing the right side. I think there's a number of scenarios where he actually starts the season with the Marlies.

Considering how terribly awful Sandin (and Liljegren) were defensively last year, I don't think that's a controversial take at all. I'm also hopeful (maybe foolishly) that they will improve dramatically with Keefe around from the beginning of the year and both of them maturing, with the knowledge they're playing on the big club this year.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: bustaheims on October 01, 2020, 12:32:33 PM
And the risk losing one of Johnsson or Kerfoot, should they still be here, shouldn't stop the team from adding to the D.

It shouldn't, you're right - but, if they are still here, I imagine the team would want to protect them and/or potentially other forward additions that may happen.

Unless the team adds a pair of higher-end D, there really is no issue. If they lose a guy like Gudas, so be it.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 01, 2020, 01:04:41 PM
If the Leafs are worried about the expansion draft, they won't sign any D men because they can only protect 3..Muzz, Rielly, Holl are it for now. Sign a Brodie or Gudas and Holl won't be protected anymore. There's a very low chance a UFA is going to come here without protection against the expansion draft so they may only go after 1 D man.

For the expansion draft protection, If you sign an FA defender:

Locks:

F - Tavares, Marner, Matthews and Nylander
D - Rielly, Muzzin, FA

So now you can either protect 3 more forwards or 1 more D.

If they could add 4th D that was worth protecting (or Dermott if he stays and takes a step forward), I don't think the risk of losing Holl or one of the remaining forwards (since Hyman is a UFA) should stop them.
And that was my point in the response. The expansion draft will have zero effect on if the Leafs sign a UFA or not.

Sorry, I thought you were saying since they could only protect 3 so it would be Rielly, Muzzin + acquired D so they would only go after 1.

I was saying they can protect 4 D, because there are only 4 forwards they absolutely need to protect.

If Dermott is moved and they protect 4D, they could add 2 D because really losing Holl isn't a big deal.

And the risk losing one of Johnsson or Kerfoot, should they still be here, shouldn't stop the team from adding to the D.

No worries, I kind of left it hanging at the end there so when I read my response back it can be seen as you saw it. Anyway, you are absolutely correct. We'll worry what we can lose in the draft next year.
Title: Re: 2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs Summer Edition
Post by: Deebo on October 01, 2020, 01:43:34 PM
And the risk losing one of Johnsson or Kerfoot, should they still be here, shouldn't stop the team from adding to the D.

It shouldn't, you're right - but, if they are still here, I imagine the team would want to protect them and/or potentially other forward additions that may happen.

Unless the team adds a pair of higher-end D, there really is no issue. If they lose a guy like Gudas, so be it.

One addition on D requiring protection is very likely.

If they were to add another D, I don't think it would have to be that high end of an addition for the team to prefer to retain that player over losing whoever Seattle prefers of Kerfoot, Johnsson or a hypothetical addition at F. Even Dermott, if he takes a step forward in development, could be protected over the forwards.